Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

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sinnergy

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You got that backwards. 14TF would be amazing. 9TF and below is off the table.
It’s better to keep expectations in check ;) but we will see ...

Thinking that we get high-end gpu specs in a console that normally is on a card almost half of the size of a console pcb, sounds like wishful thinking to me.
 
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ColdToffee

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Regarding the OS functions, I thought the PS4 OS was written in x86-64 and not ARMv7? Is it possible to have both at the same time?
FreeBSD (base for Ps4, and probably ps5 os), can run on both, it's built with support for both.
Also AMD had a crazy project for a chip using both ARM and x86 cores. They wouldn't think of creating such thing without an OS to run on it.
 
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devilNprada

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Also AMD had a crazy project for a chip using both ARM and x86 cores. They wouldn't think of creating such thing without an OS to run on it.
Are you quoting as fact this crazy project based on an article that clearly states it is only speculation?
 

ColdToffee

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Are you quoting as fact this crazy project based on an article that clearly states it is only speculation?
Am I quoting it as FACT?
... maybe reading what I wrote a bit better would help...
.... people jumping to start fights for everything in this forum...

I'll resume what I intended with that post: "IT MIGHT NOT BE IMPOSSIBLE".
 
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devilNprada

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I'm really not though. It's just I read your statement than oh wow... jump into an article that's pure speculation.. It was a bit misleading to me.. I will move on sorry
 

ColdToffee

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It is speculation, but it's very likely doable. Crazier things have happened. Having OS control moving between 2 cpus of different architectures doesn't seem to be the most impossible thing, how hard it is to implement or how much performance will tank because of the i/o conversions between them it's another story.
 

onQ123

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?
 

Aceofspades

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?
What was even more hilarious is DF video mocking PS5 (8TF according to them) despite Cerny not giving a single clue regarding the power of the machine.

As for those "insiders" they are just a clueless attention seeking snowflakes.
 

demigod

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?
I think you’re onto something. Paging @Braldryr .

It’s been over 2 weeks and no leaks, Arthur Gies letting xbox fans down again.
 

ANIMAL1975

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?
I think the exact wording was more advanced, at least in the ree thread. But you might be right, and or can be a strategy since E3 is just around the corner,... Who knows.
 
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Negotiator

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FreeBSD (base for Ps4, and probably ps5 os), can run on both, it's built with support for both.
Also AMD had a crazy project for a chip using both ARM and x86 cores. They wouldn't think of creating such thing without an OS to run on it.
But can they both run at the same time?

We know that OG PS4 has an ARM CPU on the southbridge and 256MB of RAM. This processor gets activated in rest mode only.

Whenever the AMD APU is activated (i.e. PSN downloads), the ARM CPU is shut down. Am I getting this wrong?

My understanding is that you cannot have both running at the same time... it's one or the other.

Even the PS4 Pro which is more powerful (I assume the ARM CPU has been upgraded as well, since the southbridge RAM is 4 times larger) uses the APU to handle PSN downloads (you can hear the fan kicking in).

Sony had promised to fix this in a more powerful PS4, but they didn't, which is weird.

The ARM CPU seems to be fast enough to handle downloads: https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2018/ps4-aeolia/

To sum it up, it seems that it's not possible to have an ARM CPU to handle OS functions while the game is running on the x86 CPU and thus having full access to 8 Ryzen cores.

I'd love to be wrong about it (who doesn't want more CPU horsepower for video games?), but I can still see Sony dedicating at least 1 Ryzen core for OS functions.

ps: That AMD project seems to be dead (not sure if it has anything to do with the ARM CPU on PS4).
 
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onQ123

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I think the exact wording was more advanced, at least in the ree thread. But you might be right, and or can be a strategy since E3 is just around the corner,... Who knows.
There was a lot of teasing & so on until the slip up about PS5 devkit being close to 13TFLOPS then everything just stopped lol .


All I can think of is that people seen the slower devkits that Cerny talked about & thought that was the final specs but now they have the new devkits
 
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ColdToffee

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But can they both run at the same time?

We know that OG PS4 has an ARM CPU on the southbridge and 256MB of RAM. This processor gets activated in rest mode only.

Whenever the AMD APU is activated (i.e. PSN downloads), the ARM CPU is shut down. Am I getting this wrong?

My understanding is that you cannot have both running at the same time... it's one or the other.

Even the PS4 Pro which is more powerful (I assume the ARM CPU has been upgraded as well, since the southbridge RAM is 4 times larger) uses the APU to handle PSN downloads (you can hear the fan kicking in).

Sony had promised to fix this in a more powerful PS4, but they didn't, which is weird.

The ARM CPU seems to be fast enough to handle downloads: https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2018/ps4-aeolia/

To sum it up, it seems that it's not possible to have an ARM CPU to handle OS functions while the game is running on the x86 CPU and thus having full access to 8 Ryzen cores.

I'd love to be wrong about it (who doesn't want more CPU horsepower for video games?), but I can still see Sony dedicating at least 1 Ryzen core for OS functions.

ps: That AMD project seems to be dead (not sure if it has anything to do with the ARM CPU on PS4).
Yeah, the Arm cpu turned out to be a kind of a waste, its there only to turn the console on for the scheduled update check.
The ps4 already has a x86 OS communicating with and using an Arm cpu, even if in a very limited way. Expanding on that could free resources for gaming, since nowadays ARM processors are powerful enough to handle the os (or big part of it), and they are cheap and energy efficient.
 

xool

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But can they both run at the same time?

..

To sum it up, it seems that it's not possible to have an ARM CPU to handle OS functions while the game is running on the x86 CPU and thus having full access to 8 Ryzen cores.

I'd love to be wrong about it (who doesn't want more CPU horsepower for video games?), but I can still see Sony dedicating at least 1 Ryzen core for OS functions.

ps: That AMD project seems to be dead (not sure if it has anything to do with the ARM CPU on PS4).
I don't see any reason why it isn't possible (unless the two CPUs share the same memory channel and there's a switch between the two that can only be directed to one or the other . actually this isn't that unlikely)

However having two running at the same time adds some slightly complex synchronization issues - ie the two CPU's will need some method of communicating - ie the user buys a game, starts the download (PStore - using APU), then the actual downloading needs to be done by ARM CPU , then when finished the ARM CPU probably needs to inform the APU the work is done .. etc - not cutting edge science, but probably would require some low level code with working knowledge of how the hardware shares memory .. specifically ARM/x64 interprocessor communication would likely need to be done from scratch - no common library for this.

That said - I have 0 knowledge of this specific case in the PS4.
 

Insane Metal

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CJY

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?
yes, it's absolutely hilarious. And I'm saying that without a hint of sarcasm.
 

LordOfChaos

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No one else find it funny that when Cerny did the Wired interview without giving any real specs Xbox insiders came from out of nowhere just to say that Anaconda was going to be more powerful but after someone leaked that PS5 devkits are close to 13TFLOPS we haven't heard anything else from them?

Those immediate takes after the Wired article were always weird.

"It has the CPU and GPU architectures we pretty well expected!"
"Xbox is more advanced!"

Than...What? All we really know is Ryzen 2 and Navi, not the shipping clocks or the scale of the GPU, so you're saying X is more powerful than ??????
 

demigod

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Those immediate takes after the Wired article were always weird.

"It has the CPU and GPU architectures we pretty well expected!"
"Xbox is more advanced!"

Than...What? All we really know is Ryzen 2 and Navi, not the shipping clocks or the scale of the GPU, so you're saying X is more powerful than ??????
They can slap 32GB in there and call it more powerful.
 
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ColdToffee

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Those immediate takes after the Wired article were always weird.

"It has the CPU and GPU architectures we pretty well expected!"
"Xbox is more advanced!"

Than...What? All we really know is Ryzen 2 and Navi, not the shipping clocks or the scale of the GPU, so you're saying X is more powerful than ??????
More powerful than anything Sony can come up with, because you need to add the TFs of the cloud to each console.
Let's not forget the brand new term "cloud native", it must mean something amazing and totally real and totally gamechanging.
 

CJY

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I still believe the next Xbox will be called Xbox Infinity, utilising the infinite power of the cloud. Would definitely earn the lols
 

SonGoku

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It’s better to keep expectations in check ;) but we will see ...

Thinking that we get high-end gpu specs in a console that normally is on a card almost half of the size of a console pcb, sounds like wishful thinking to me.
A 64 CU card would fit on a 380-400mm2 APU. Which falls on console limits
Agree best to not expect the absolute best 14TF, but i think 11-12TF expectations are more grounded in reality than 8-9TF.

To put it in perspective, 9TF and below is as unrealistic as 14TF and above.
 
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LordOfChaos

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More powerful than anything Sony can come up with, because you need to add the TFs of the cloud to each console.
Let's not forget the brand new term "cloud native", it must mean something amazing and totally real and totally gamechanging.
Who was that Microsoft buddy who on here said to remember the Xbox One GPU clock speed increase over the PS4 "Applied to every core" or something as if that was any different from any calculation from the clock speed, lol? And 'it can't be weaker, we invented DirectX"
 
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ColdToffee

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Who was that Microsoft buddy who on here said to remember the Xbox One GPU clock speed increase over the PS4 "Applied to every core" or something as if that was any different from any calculation from the clock speed, lol? And 'it can't be weaker, we invented DirectX"
Dunno, I guess it wasn't misterxmedia, that one vanished quickly.
Whatever happened to cboat? Never heard of that one again. I miss buttocks leaks.
 

SonGoku

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What was even more hilarious is DF video mocking PS5 (8TF according to them)
PLEASE! Someone sauce on this? I've seen it referenced countless times without source.
We know that OG PS4 has an ARM CPU on the southbridge and 256MB of RAM. This processor gets activated in rest mode only.
Apparently not rest mode exclusive:
  • Network connections (Wireless and GbLAN, including background downloading -> PlayGo
  • File handling (Bluray Drive, Harddrive and USB 3.0), including background caching
  • Main serial flash handling
 
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LordOfChaos

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Dunno, I guess it wasn't misterxmedia, that one vanished quickly.
Whatever happened to cboat? Never heard of that one again. I miss buttocks leaks.

Ahh, it was this, Panello


People DO understand that Microsoft has some of the smartest graphics programmers IN THE WORLD. We CREATED DirectX, the standard APIs that everyone programs against. So while people laude Sony for their HW skills, do you really think we dont know how to build a system optimized for maximizing graphics for programmers? Seriously? There is no way were giving up a 30%+ advantage to Sony. And ANYONE who has seen both systems running could say there are great looking games on both systems. If there was really huge performance difference it would be obvious.
 

TeamGhobad

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Those immediate takes after the Wired article were always weird.

"It has the CPU and GPU architectures we pretty well expected!"
"Xbox is more advanced!"

Than...What? All we really know is Ryzen 2 and Navi, not the shipping clocks or the scale of the GPU, so you're saying X is more powerful than ??????
there are rumors that nexbox uses zen3
 

LordOfChaos

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there are rumors that nexbox uses zen3
Anything reputable? When I search for that I see more results for Ryzen 2 and a few youtube screamers for Ryzen 3 on nextbox.

That would also mean it comes out the better part of a year later, so that would be fine to assume is more advanced.
 

onQ123

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More powerful than anything Sony can come up with, because you need to add the TFs of the cloud to each console.
Let's not forget the brand new term "cloud native", it must mean something amazing and totally real and totally gamechanging.

"Cloud native" mean that the game is made to the specs of the server , for instance a sever can have a really large SSD & a dev could make a game that's built to the sever specs that's a lot larger than the games that can be made for PS5 or Xbox Next.
 
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ColdToffee

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"Cloud native" mean that the game is made to the specs of the server , for instance a sever can have a really large SSD & a dev could make a game that's built to the sever specs that's a lot larger than the games that can be made for PS5 or Xbox Next.
Soooo... Nothing any 3rd party game will take advantage of.
 

TeamGhobad

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Anything reputable? When I search for that I see more results for Ryzen 2 and a few youtube screamers for Ryzen 3 on nextbox.

That would also mean it comes out the better part of a year later, so that would be fine to assume is more advanced.
reputable no. but it originated here:

 
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TeamGhobad

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Guy also said expect 2080 performance for PS5 at $400
i mean if the code is optimised specifically for that hardware and there are designated RT bits....its possible no?

also it wont be 400, 499 probably.
 
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demigod

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Who was that Microsoft buddy who on here said to remember the Xbox One GPU clock speed increase over the PS4 "Applied to every core" or something as if that was any different from any calculation from the clock speed, lol? And 'it can't be weaker, we invented DirectX"
Yes it was Albert Penello who no longer works for MS. He’s over at reeee and keeps spouting bs how the PS5 will be 8TF.
 

onQ123

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Soooo... Nothing any 3rd party game will take advantage of.

Why wouldn't they? if it's cloud native it will be playable on any device that can connect to the servers.



I always thought it would be smarter to make the next gen games to the spec of server slices before the consoles release so we wouldn't go through the launch drought.
 

TeamGhobad

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Xbox One was 30% less powerful than ps4 and here is them explaining why:


important to note that that entire xbox upper echelon management was let go together with bozo matricks.
 

CurryPanda

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Yes it was Albert Penello who no longer works for MS. He’s over at reeee and keeps spouting bs how the PS5 will be 8TF.
I’m glad he left MS. He’s an idiot.

Xbox One was 30% less powerful than ps4 and here is them explaining why:


important to note that that entire xbox upper echelon management was let go together with bozo matricks.
Ewwww the past is gross. Don Mattrck aka Ugly Tom cruise royally fucked things up.
 
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SonGoku

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Xbox One was 30% less powerful than ps4 and here is them explaining why:
important to note that that entire xbox upper echelon management was let go together with bozo matricks.
Funny that I just came across this Phil Spencer comment.
The thing that's interesting for us as we roll forward is we're actually designing our next gen silicon in such a way that it works great for playing games in the cloud and also works very well for machine-learning and other non-entertainment workloads. So as a company like Microsoft, we can dual-purpose the silicon that we're putting in. We have a consumer user for that silicon and we'll have enterprise use for those blades as well.

It's all in our space around driving down cost to serve, and your cost to serve is made up by two things, how much was the hardware and how much time was that hardware monetized? So we can monetize that hardware over more cycles in the day, in the 24 hours, through game streaming and other things that needs CPU and GPU in the cloud, and we will drive down the cost to serve in our service.

So the design as we move forward is done hand-in-hand with the Azure silicon team. And I think that creates a real competitive advantage.
Seems to me MS is cooking a jack of all trades master of none APU. They are designing their silicon around 3 group interests so that they can be incorporate it onto azure, following this strategy they wont be able to build as strong an APU if they only focused on gaming. So i woulnt expect Snek to be more powerful than PS5 UNLESS they launch much later or higher priced.

On the flip side one could argue this will allow the to subsidize hw but still wont be as efficient as a pure gaming focused chip
 
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TeamGhobad

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I’m glad he left MS. He’s an idiot.


Ewwww the past is gross. Don Mattrck aka Ugly Tom cruise royally fucked things up.
underpowered 500dollar kinect machine that had no kinect games, also was suppose to be always online...
 
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CurryPanda

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underpowered 500dollar kinect machine that had no kinect games, also was suppose to be always online...
Yep. It’s funny the father of xbox even called him out on twitter awhile back. Lol. Now, Don Mattrick has disappeared off the face of the earth. 😂
 

TeamGhobad

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Yep. It’s funny the father of xbox even called him out on twitter awhile back. Lol. Now, Don Mattrick has disappeared off the face of the earth. 😂
whats really weird is that don mattrick came from a developer background, he was making games as a youngster and thats how we got in bed with EA and climbed the ladder. He wasn't some snotty business grad. But i guess people change.
 
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SonGoku

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Off-topic: I think we should make a next gen PS5/SNEK thread to encompass all next gen talk and rumors together.
Who is up for it?
 
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onQ123

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Xbox One was 30% less powerful than ps4 and here is them explaining why:


important to note that that entire xbox upper echelon management was let go together with bozo matricks.
They misread the market & so did Nintendo with the Wii U , it was the causal craze & they tried to ride that wave but they was actually putting themselves in the way of the danger & it made PS4 the hero that the hardcores needed .


Sony actually could have got away with the Xbox One Kinect type of system but it was bad for Microsoft because they used the hardcore crowd to get to where they was at then they tried to make them second class citizens on Xbox One while trying to reach the ipad & Wii market.
 
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