Rumor: PS5 devkits ~ 13 TFLOPS

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TeamGhobad

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They misread the market & so did Nintendo with the Wii U , it was the causal craze & they tried to ride that wave but they was actually putting themselves in the way of the danger & it made PS4 the hero that the hardcores needed .


Sony actually could have got away with the Xbox One Kinect type of system but it was bad for Microsoft because they used the hardcore crowd to get to where they was at then they tried to make them second class citizens on Xbox One while trying to reach the ipad & Wii market.
true but their SoC is a total mess as well, they miscalculated the RAM they just failed on every front. I hope they don't make the same mistake again. Their emphasis on cloud is a bit worrisome.
 

CurryPanda

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true but their SoC is a total mess as well, they miscalculated the RAM they just failed on every front. I hope they don't make the same mistake again. Their emphasis on cloud is a bit worrisome.
They aren’t going to make the same mistake again. They have lost a lot of their fan base as it is and don’t want to lose more. If they do, then Phil Spencer needs to be thrown into a wood chipper.
 

TeamGhobad

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They aren’t going to make the same mistake again. They have lost a lot of their fan base as it is and don’t want to lose more. If they do, then Phil Spencer needs to be thrown into a wood chipper.
Don't you think Phil although great is a bit meek? Don't you want a hard mofo like Peter Moore that makes (timed) exclusive DLC deals for the next GTA, and snatches FF and DMC exclusivity from Sony. Totally ruthless. Phil is a bit too kumbaya for me.
 
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onQ123

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They aren’t going to make the same mistake again. They have lost a lot of their fan base as it is and don’t want to lose more. If they do, then Phil Spencer needs to be thrown into a wood chipper.
They could go for the power advantage & end up a bigger mistake than the casual /TV push
 
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wordslaughter

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They could go for the power advantage & end up a bigger mistake than the casual /TV push
Doubtful. I don't see how going for a power advantage would be a mistake UNLESS the price gap is enormous.

Console performance matters A LOT. IMO it is one of the main factors in overall user base, basically ever since people started examining and comparing every single game ( graphics, resolution, frame rate etc ).

During the 360 PS3 gen, it was a constant stream of a new game comes out and shortly after it is discovered that the 360 version is the best version and the PS3 version is inferior because of X and Y. There is no doubt in my mind that the constant nature of this massively helped the 360.

And then this gen, the opposite happened with the PS4 having the superior version of multiplats.

And while exclusives are important, it's multiplats that represent 95%+ of all games. And having the best version of 95% of all the games is a HUUUUUGE advantage.

And it was a double whammy for the Xbone by being LESS powerful and MORE expensive. And all because some new non-gaming executive got it in his head that Kinect was the future and was going to produce Wii like sales. It's a miracle they've sold as many Xbones as they have IMO.
 
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onQ123

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Doubtful. I don't see how going for a power advantage would be a mistake UNLESS the price gap is enormous.

Console performance matters A LOT. IMO it is one of the main factors in overall user base, basically ever since people started examining and comparing every single game ( graphics, resolution, frame rate etc ).

During the 360 PS3 gen, it was a constant stream of a new game comes out and shortly after it is discovered that the 360 version is the best version and the PS3 version is inferior because of X and Y. There is no doubt in my mind that the constant nature of this massively helped the 360.

And then this gen, the opposite happened with the PS4 having the superior version of multiplats.

And while exclusives are important, it's multiplats that represent 95%+ of all games. And having the best version of 95% of all the games is a HUUUUUGE advantage.

And it was a double whammy for the Xbone by being LESS powerful and MORE expensive. And all because some new non-gaming executive got it in his head that Kinect was the future and was going to produce Wii like sales. It's a miracle they've sold as many Xbones as they have IMO.
The image on next gen consoles are going to be so clean that the number of people who care about power will be a lot lower than the people who will be buying the console for features & games.
 
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The image on next gen consoles are going to be so clean that the number of people who care about power will be a lot lower than the people who will be buying the console for features & games.
More like features and first party games.

The next Xbox and PS systems will be so close in power and price, where most people can't tell the visual fidelity between them. And even moreso, for those gamers still playing on 1080p tvs.

Also, the market is so big now that even a laggard like Xbox is still closing in on 50 million by the time Anaconda launches. And that means just about every third party devs releases on both systems aside from some Japanese games (PS) and some exclusive deals for second tier games and timed exclusive content.

Probably 97% of third party games will be released for both systems. It's not like the old days where the market was smaller and you could get some horses in the race flaming out at 10 million unit sales like Saturn or DC or weird Nintendo systems like Wii U, and half the publishers avoid the console.

Sony and MS have a big enough following that as long as they release a good system with good games and features, tons of sales and tons of games.

What sucks though is the OS/dashboard is important. MS jams in so much shit into their dashboard, it can slow to a crawl. I only care about games, so all the tabbed crap like Gamepass, Mixer and Community just bog everything down as the system can't keep up. Even X can't keep up.
 
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wordslaughter

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The image on next gen consoles are going to be so clean that the number of people who care about power will be a lot lower than the people who will be buying the console for features & games.
That's optimistic. I disagree.

People have been caring about the smallest differences in resolution, frame rate and any other tiny detail, like how much grass is rendered in this particular screenshot comparison etc. And maybe, based on leaks of Sony's new SSD tech, maybe load times will be significant enough of a difference next gen.

Doubtful these rabid comparisons will end next gen.

And when games are consistently "best on _____" that begins to affect mind share.

Exclusives will continue to be important.

But as I already said, multiplats make up 95%+ of all games. The average casual will just want to know which box plays games the best. And whatever the answer to that question is is likely to sell a lot of consoles.
 

onQ123

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That's optimistic. I disagree.

People have been caring about the smallest differences in resolution, frame rate and any other tiny detail, like how much grass is rendered in this particular screenshot comparison etc. And maybe, based on leaks of Sony's new SSD tech, maybe load times will be significant enough of a difference next gen.

Doubtful these rabid comparisons will end next gen.

And when games are consistently "best on _____" that begins to affect mind share.

Exclusives will continue to be important.

But as I already said, multiplats make up 95%+ of all games. The average casual will just want to know which box plays games the best. And whatever the answer to that question is is likely to sell a lot of consoles.
If that was the case why isn't Xbox One X or PS4 Pro selling as well as PS4?
 

xool

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I’m glad he left MS. He’s an idiot.

Ewwww the past is gross. Don Mattrck aka Ugly Tom cruise royally fucked things up.
Some would say that the fuck up of XONE wasn't a mistake, but the plan from day ZERO. aka MS's modus operandi "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish"

  1. Embrace - the happy days of OG Xbox and early 360 - nice guys like J.Allard, lots of good games
  2. Extend - late 360 and early XONE period - ads on the dashboard, new ways to pay (not play), xbox as trojan horse for other services ("tv,tv,tv,tv"), effort on games dries up (because they got an audience in stage 1)
  3. Extinguish -- on hold, step 2 didn't work - but they're still trying
I think Microsoft is still at stage 2 - they're now trying to change the way people pay for games (Gamespass) - when really they should be going back to stage 1 - maybe Phil Spencer will be able to convince me otherwise at E3.

Other big tech companys use similar tactics - remember when you got free shipping from Amazon and the prices were great - now the deals are gone, and you pay for Prime .. Similar with early google - tons of freebies, cool software (https://killedbygoogle.com/) - but once critical mass is gained good guy google ("don't be evil") disappears, and we're left with a search monopoly and ads.

Big business acts like a drug pusher - first they're you friend, and the first hits are free, once you're hooked your fucked.
 
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xool

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Off-topic: I think we should make a next gen PS5/SNEK thread to encompass all next gen talk and rumors together.
Who is up for it?
Yes - one thread should do.

Nominating you.. (can a mod tag it "official")
 

SonGoku

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Doubtful. I don't see how going for a power advantage would be a mistake UNLESS the price gap is enormous.
They wont get a substantial power advantage 40+% (PS4/XBONE- PRO/X) unless the price gap is humongous
Theyll be lucky to get 20% for $100 extra. Realistically they'll get 10-15% advantage
 

wordslaughter

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If that was the case why isn't Xbox One X or PS4 Pro selling as well as PS4?
If there were no base consoles and Xbox One X was released first and it's competition was the PS4 Pro that released later, was weaker AND more expensive, then that's exactly what would happen.
 

ethomaz

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That's optimistic. I disagree.

People have been caring about the smallest differences in resolution, frame rate and any other tiny detail, like how much grass is rendered in this particular screenshot comparison etc. And maybe, based on leaks of Sony's new SSD tech, maybe load times will be significant enough of a difference next gen.

Doubtful these rabid comparisons will end next gen.

And when games are consistently "best on _____" that begins to affect mind share.

Exclusives will continue to be important.

But as I already said, multiplats make up 95%+ of all games. The average casual will just want to know which box plays games the best. And whatever the answer to that question is is likely to sell a lot of consoles.
That is far from the truth.

The buzz about being underpowered only happened with XB1 because it was $100 expensive than competition... if XB1 was weaker and $50-100 less the nobody should talk about that.

The clear picture is even after X/Pro releases PS4 continues being the best selling console followed by XB1... X or Pro doesn’t sell a finger of what these two weaker consoles sells.

When prices right power means nothing.

A $399 PS5 will sell like water vs a $499 Nextxbox even if the PS5 is way weaker.

The only time power matter for sales is when you cheaper or matched in price.

If there were no base consoles and Xbox One X was released first and it's competition was the PS4 Pro that released later, was weaker AND more expensive, then that's exactly what would happen.
We can back to reality now?

Pro are cheaper and weaker than X and there is nothing to talk about.

XB1 were both expensive and weaker that is what generate the backslash in the past.
 
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wordslaughter

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That is far from the truth.

The buzz about being underpowered only happened with XB1 because it was $100 expensive than competition... if XB1 was weaker and $50-100 less the nobody should talk about that.

The clear picture is even after X/Pro releases PS4 continues being the best selling console followed by XB1... X or Pro doesn’t sell a finger of what these two weaker consoles sells.

When prices right power means nothing.

A $399 PS5 will sell like water vs a $499 Nextxbox even if the PS5 is way weaker.

The only time power matter for sales is when you cheaper or matched in price.
The Xbone being weaker AND more expensive definitely made it worse. But even if it were the same price and weaker the same thing would have happened.

People would have seen week after week the comparisons always putting the PS4 version as better looking/performing. This adds the the PS4's mindshare and it get a boost in sales because of it.

If you are going to talk about the One X and the Pro the picture becomes more complex. I doubt the "pro" versions of any console will sell as well as the base for a variety of reasons.

1. People without 4K TV's are less likely to buy one. And PLENTY of people still don't have a 4K TV. Most people really.
2. People who already bought a base console may be less likely as well because they don't think the difference is worth it and what they've got already is "good enough."
3 And yeah, because they're more expensive and the base consoles are now discounted in price, reaching a new bracket of buyers.

If price is the SAME then there's not as much reason to buy the weaker box.
 

ethomaz

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The Xbone being weaker AND more expensive definitely made it worse. But even if it were the same price and weaker the same thing would have happened.

People would have seen week after week the comparisons always putting the PS4 version as better looking/performing. This adds the the PS4's mindshare and it get a boost in sales because of it.

If you are going to talk about the One X and the Pro the picture becomes more complex. I doubt the "pro" versions of any console will sell as well as the base for a variety of reasons.

1. People without 4K TV's are less likely to buy one. And PLENTY of people still don't have a 4K TV. Most people really.
2. People who already bought a base console may be less likely as well because they don't think the difference is worth it and what they've got already is "good enough."
3 And yeah, because they're more expensive and the base consoles are now discounted in price, reaching a new bracket of buyers.

If price is the SAME then there's not as much reason to buy the weaker box.
Of course even if it was the same price but weaker it should fail over the powergate.

If you are weaker the minimum consumers expect is you to be cheaper.

I made a thread before PS4/XB1 saying “XB1 should be at least $100 cheaper, perhaps even $150 depending on the country, to compete with PS4”.

That is true before launch, true at launch and true today.

XB1 price at launch was MS thinking consumers are idiots... MS should price XB1 $299 at launch to delivery that weaker hardware.

And that is true to any market.

What is the main selling point of AMD over NVidia? I’m weaker but my cards has better value because they are cheaper.

Value, what you get from what you pay, matter... not power alone.
 
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bhunachicken

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As far as TF are concerned, Digital Foundry told people to temper their expectations and expect 10-11TF.

I'd still love to see ~13TF in the machine. Maybe that's the Secret Sauce ;)
 

xool

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Of course even if it was the same price but weaker it should fail over the powergate.

If you are weaker the minimum consumers expect is you to be cheaper.

I made a thread before PS4/XB1 saying “XB1 should be at least $100 cheaper, perhaps even $150 depending on the country, to compete with PS4”.

That is true before launch, true at launch and true today.

XB1 price at launch was MS thinking consumers are idiots... MS should price XB1 $299 at launch to delivery that weaker hardware.

And that is true to any market.

What is the main selling point of AMD over NVidia? I’m weaker but my cards has better value because they are cheaper.

Value, what you get from what you pay, matter... not power alone.
I still don't know wtf MS was thinking launching $100 more with weaker hardware - and Kinect was just a tax on the Xbox faithfull .. meanwhile the rest of the world moved on.

I wonder if the XONE had been cheaper and got more sales would we have seen better parity between consoles with devs taking better advantage of the eSRAM .. if they'd had eSRAM +GDDR5 instead of eSRAM + DDR3 maybe that might have bridged the gap, but 33% less Compute Units is a lot to make up for..
 

sinnergy

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As far as TF are concerned, Digital Foundry told people to temper their expectations and expect 10-11TF.

I'd still love to see ~13TF in the machine. Maybe that's the Secret Sauce ;)
And even that is high... it’s console sized, but with a big effort in cooling 11 TF is possible at a price.
 

LuvOfThaGame

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What you talking about? It's just a hype/fun name for the SonGoku thread!?
I could have said 32GB ram, 2TB SSD... Why so serious?
Why so serious? It's really not. If you, and others, want to continue a path of delusion of tech beyond what is physically possible in modern and near future tech, please, indulge your fantasies. Perhaps, Ant-Man can save you. 😉
 
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joe_zazen

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A nice OT with all rumors/leaks/news we have so far in one place would be great.

Hardly. New news, new thread: that is the way gaf has always been.

I hate hate hate forums with megathreads because you cant browse new topics to see whats new; you have to monitor some giant 600 page thread that has a terrible signal to noise ratio.
 

Racer43

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Why so serious? It's really not. If you, and others, want to continue a path of delusion of tech beyond what is physically possible in modern and near future tech, please, indulge your fantasies. Perhaps, Ant-Man can save you. 😉
A little slow on the uptake there? :p They were having some fun
 

joe_zazen

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9TF is perfectly acceptable seeing as how this gen we had 1-6 TF
Definitely if they hit $399, the system is balanced and quiet, and they bring the services and software.

You have to factor a bunch of shit into the equation when looking at consumer decisions, and power is only one factor, and it is far from the most important. Moreover, the only people who care about digital foundry are warriors and those who spend thousands on PCs + multiple consoles.
 

bitbydeath

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9TF is perfectly acceptable seeing as how this gen we had 1-6 TF
Nah, Cerny said 8TF was required for current gen to display 4K. 9TF is just impossible with what we already know about the system even with just mentioning the words Ray Tracing.

VR also requires a major hardware upgrade to introduce PSVR 2.0.

At this point 14TF is far more likely than 9TF.
 

ColdToffee

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Nah, Cerny said 8TF was required for current gen to display 4K. 9TF is just impossible with what we already know about the system even with just mentioning the words Ray Tracing.

VR also requires a major hardware upgrade to introduce PSVR 2.0.

At this point 14TF is far more likely than 9TF.
14tf seems like the max stretch.. And that would require perfect chips, lots of power draw and, most likely, liquid cooling (for console form). I say 13tf max, 11-12tf most likely.
 

rəddəM

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When the time comes for the official reveals and release it will be glorious.
So much discussion and hype.
Can't wait for the Digital Foundry videos and comparisons.
I want to see the Ray traced games so bad...
 
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bitbydeath

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14tf seems like the max stretch.. And that would require perfect chips, lots of power draw and, most likely, liquid cooling (for console form). I say 13tf max, 11-12tf most likely.
I wouldn’t rule out 14TF as there has been a number of rumours pointing to it. That said, it is the absolute max and best we could expect. I think 12TF is the lowest we can expect.
 
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