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RUMOR: Ryan Phillippe to play Iron Fist?

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Staccat0

Fail out bailed
Sure, it could work, the culture is definitely the biggest element of Rand's story. He has to at least be culturally western. But then it goes another weird way, by playing into the whole, "well, the character we race-changed to Asian... is the kung-fu guy" thing.

That's not necessarily how it works though. It's not racist to have a badass rapper, jazz musician or basketball player be black but it's pretty fuckin conspicuous when you have a shortage of black character and STILL don't cast a black person as the above.

The ideal solution is to have a nice mix. If you can't land that you at least give them stuff they invented rather than appropriating it... then you can just have other characters of the same race that DON'T do those things.

Whatever, its not the end of the world, but it was a nice idea.
 

Ashhong

Member
Maybe it's because I've only seen Iron Fist in the Spider-man cartoon, but is he supposed to be 40 years old? Figured he's supposed to be a teen like Spidey
 
Maybe it's because I've only seen Iron Fist in the Spider-man cartoon, but is he supposed to be 40 years old? Figured he's supposed to be a teen like Spidey

Nope that's just the cartoon, he and Power Man/Luke Cage have always been middle aged. Avengers EMH had a more "accurate" Iron Fist in To Steal an Antman and New Avengers.
 
  1. I don't think there are many characters you could do that with (Ant-Man is more of a special case given that it was Edgar Wright's plan & the MCU was sculpted around it to an extent). In the case of Spider-Man, they're sticking with Peter Parker with Miles Morales likely being introduced later as a means to pass the torch once the MCU Peter Parker actor's contract expires & wants out. On top of that, even with other characters of color taking the mantle of other established heroes, they may or may not be as popular as their predecessors. Take Nova for example, Richard Rider is leagues more popular than Sam Alexander (who Marvel's still trying to salvage despite the low sales of his comics & his less-than-stellar fan reception). It's one thing to introduce someone who isn't well-known, it's another to introduce someone who isn't well-liked. I'd say Kamala, but she's co-existing with Carol (but yeah, Kamala is one of the few new young heroes of color that caught on).
  2. With the exception of Daisy Johnson, most of Marvel's race changes were on either minor characters (Heimdal) or characters without powers (Ben Urich, Nick Fury...who was already black in the Ultimate universe). Clare Temple is sort of an odd case as, although the character of Claire Temple was originally black, she took the role that was occupied by Night Nurse (a separate character in the comics who was white).

1. We're in the B-tier of heroes at this point, ones you could switch around rather easily. (And Sam's sales aren't much lower than Rider's. You talk popularity, but that doesn't necessarily translate into sales. Nova is just a 20-40k at best.)

2. This... isn't a reason? Very few characters are predicated on their race: Captain America and Black Panther are among them. It's not different from drastically changing the back story and powerset of Scarlet Witch in Avengers, people are just focused on race for many as if it is important. If you're fine with many of the movie versions of these characters, then you're already cool with changes, race is just somehow a bridge too far.

Oh, I thought he was the archetype rich white kid who trained in martial arts.

Nah, he was rich as a kid, his dad took the whole family up, parents die, then he spends the next few years in K'un Lun. The early stories are Rand coming back to New york for revenge against the man who killed his parents, Harold Meachum (CEO of Rand Meachum). Seriously, the first four issues are his origin and beating the mercs in-between him and Meachum. Then it's him trying to figure out who actually killed the target of his revenge.

And people keep talking about K'un Lun and Danny being an outsider, but people bounced into K'un Lun all the time. Early characters featured in K'un Lun as natives? Merrin, Tucos, Conal D'hu-Tsien, and Miranda Rand-Kai (Danny's half sister). Colleen Wing is half-Japanese and her dad learned the city's martial arts from a random monk.

This is the problem with people talking about Iron Fist. All they're read is Immortal Iron Fist. I've been in the trenches.

Maybe it's because I've only seen Iron Fist in the Spider-man cartoon, but is he supposed to be 40 years old? Figured he's supposed to be a teen like Spidey

Nah, Ultimate made Power Man and Iron Fist younger.
 

Fury451

Banned
If Iron Fist isn't asian-american, I'm boycotting the Defenders.

Try me, Marvel.

Welp, Rand isn't Asian-American, so...have fun boycotting I guess.

I'm sure Marvel's tears will flow endlessly from atop their huge pile of money over your loss.
 

Broken Joystick

At least you can talk. Who are you?
If Iron Fist isn't asian-american, I'm boycotting the Defenders.

Try me, Marvel.

Welp, Rand isn't Asian-American, so...have fun boycotting I guess.

I'm sure Marvel's tears will flow endlessly from atop their huge pile of money over your loss.

30488-Woody-Harrelson-crying-money-b-8fc5.gif
 

Not

Banned
Welp, Rand isn't Asian-American, so...have fun boycotting I guess.

I'm sure Marvel's tears will flow endlessly from atop their huge pile of money over your loss.

So who's gonna be the Asian-American superhero then? Shang Chi? Amadeus Cho? Give me a break.

1. rand isn't asian american
2. lol like anyone gives a fuck

You probably don't give a fuck because there are 13,018 white superheroes onscreen for you to relate to
 

Fury451

Banned
So who's gonna be the Asian-American superhero then? Shang Chi? Amadeus Cho? Give me a break.

That would be cool, but yeah, unlikely for Chi and Cho to get their own debut series or something.

I don't really mind if he is Asian American to be honest, but I don't really see them going there for reasons stated in this thread- maybe they would at least use the series to introduce an Asian-American hero(s) if it's not Rand though. I could see a character like Cho being folded into the tv universe really easily.
 
The closest things you'll get as an Asian representative in the MCU movies/tv are Wong and Amaddeus Cho.

The MCU can't even cast an Asian actor as the Mandarin for god sakes.
 

duckroll

Member
If Iron Fist isn't asian-american, I'm boycotting the Defenders.

Try me, Marvel.

Okay. Whatever. Did you really bump the thread just to declare your self-important opinion that if Marvel does not cast an Asian-America in the role of a character who is supposed to be one of the whitest white boys in NYC, you would boycott a mini-series coming out in 2017? Lol.
 

mjc

Member
So who's gonna be the Asian-American superhero then? Shang Chi? Amadeus Cho? Give me a break.



You probably don't give a fuck because there are 13,018 white superheroes onscreen for you to relate to

You're gonna be pretty disappointed then dude, Iron Fist is a white guy through and through.
 

Lemaitre

Banned
So who's gonna be the Asian-American superhero then? Shang Chi? Amadeus Cho? Give me a break.



You probably don't give a fuck because there are 13,018 white superheroes onscreen for you to relate to

As a minority myself you're making a pointless gesture with your aggravation and self-proposed blackout. Won't accomplish anything really.

It's fine to be salty about it as underrepresented minorities, but we need to fight battles that actually make valid sense.
 

JDMC13

Member

I'm actually okay with this. I think it would be better if they could get someone who was half-Caucasian and half-Asian, but I think you could definitely get some story beats from people underestimating or dismissing Danny as Iron Fist because he is not fully Asian.

Basically, in a perfect world, this would be a part Brandon Lee could play.
 
As a minority myself you're making a pointless gesture with your aggravation and self-proposed blackout. Won't accomplish anything really.

It's fine to be salty about it as underrepresented minorities, but we need to fight battles that actually make valid sense.
It does make sense.
 

duckroll

Member
It does make sense.

Does it really make any more or less sense that suggesting that Daredevil should be Asian America, or that Elektra should Asian-European? Like, if they decide to go in that direction, it could be interesting, but why would it make sense on a conceptual level?
 
Does it really make any more or less sense that suggesting that Daredevil should be Asian America, or that Elektra should Asian-European? Like, if they decide to go in that direction, it could be interesting, but why would it make sense on a conceptual level?
On a conceptual level, it's an outsider being chosen to fulfill a legacy. Him being white is not important for his character. So I don't buy any sort of excuse or hand waving for him having to be white.

The Matt and Elektra ship has already sailed so there's no point talking about it.
 

mjc

Member
On a conceptual level, it's an outsider being chosen to fulfill a legacy. Him being white is not important for his character. So I don't buy any sort of excuse or hand waving for him having to be white.

The Matt and Elektra ship has already sailed so there's no point talking about it.

So we can make Luke Cage white then, right? Because recently there's been no reason for him to strictly be black...
 
Basically, in a perfect world, this would be a part Brandon Lee could play.

*waves* hello there! :p

On a conceptual level, it's an outsider being chosen to fulfill a legacy. Him being white is not important for his character. So I don't buy any sort of excuse or hand waving for him having to be white.

You say excuse/hand waving..I say this is a stupid fucking way to try to get an Asian superhero in the MCU. There's no logical reason to switch his race besides 'but I want him to be Asian!'

This gives me vibes of that thread about the MCU not having any gay characters. Trust me, you don't want to modify existing material into something it isn't. You want a role that's written specifically for that race/gender/sex/etc.
 

duckroll

Member
On a conceptual level, it's an outsider being chosen to fulfill a legacy. Him being white is not important for his character. So I don't buy any sort of excuse or hand waving for him having to be white.

The Matt and Elektra ship has already sailed so there's no point talking about it.

I don't mean "could they reimagine Iron Fist as an Asian-American", I mean "why does it make sense to be outraged if Iron Fist is not Asian-American". This is similar to the Spider-man debate I think. Would it be interesting to see a different take on Peter Parker as a minority? Sure. Would it be even cooler if they made a Spider-man series or movie with Miguel or Miles instead? Definitely. But does it naturally make sense to be upset if Peter Parker is white like he always is? I don't think so?
 

mjc

Member
I don't mean "could they reimagine Iron Fist as an Asian-American", I mean "why does it make sense to be outraged if Iron Fist is not Asian-American". This is similar to the Spider-man debate I think. Would it be interesting to see a different take on Peter Parker as a minority? Sure. Would it be even cooler if they made a Spider-man series or movie with Miguel or Miles instead? Definitely. But does it naturally make sense to be upset if Peter Parker is white like he always is? I don't think so?

Excellent post on all fronts.
 

BrightLightLava

Unconfirmed Member
I find this whole argument really interesting.

What is more racist? Making the Kung Fu guy Asian? Or not making the Kung Fu guy Asian?

I couldn't care less as long as it's good.
 
So we can make Luke Cage white then, right? Because recently there's been no reason for him to strictly be black...
If you want to go make a black character a white dude, you could try. I don't think it would be a good idea though

You say excuse/hand waving..I say this is a stupid fucking way to try to get an Asian superhero in the MCU.
You're free to think that but I'm not sure why it's stupid. I guess we can all wait for the Shang Chi TV show.
 

Lunar15

Member
I feel like it's almost more racist to imply that Iron Fist should be an asian character because he knows Kung Fu. I'm fine with swapping whatever heroes to whatever nationality, race, gender, or what have you, but deciding that they should be a certain race to due to stereotyped factors is somewhat distasteful. But hey, it's fiction. Do whatever, but I don't think there's any great reason to get hugely upset.
 

Astarte

Member
Iron Fist is white, so I'm down for a white actor portraying him. It would be nice to have some Asian superheroes, but that's more of a problem with the source material.
 

duckroll

Member
You say excuse/hand waving..I say this is a stupid fucking way to try to get an Asian superhero in the MCU. There's no logical reason to switch his race besides 'but I want him to be Asian!'

Well, I can actually argue on the other side too, because I don't really like the "it was always this way so it should stay this way forever" stand either. There could be a logical reason to switch his race if they spread their casting net wide and simply find a guy who fits every requirement of the role and he's Asian. We saw something like that with Kingpin in the Daredevil film, and it definitely worked. Race should not be a barrier to getting a role if the character is not defined by race at a core level.

Unfortunately Hollywood is largely white, so examples like this are really hard to come by. It's easy to be overshadowed by tons of white people fighting for roles preconceived to be white in origin. So I definitely understand the frustration.
 

Yousefb

Member
Man I'll never understand the hero I relate to argument. My favorit heroes are "white dudes" and I'm middle eastern. I really couldn't care less what race or ethnicity the character is. Just give me a good story I don't need to relate.
 
You're free to think that but I'm not sure why it's stupid. I guess we can all wait for the Shang Chi TV show.

Because instead of actually getting an Asian superhero, you want to retrofit a white one to the role instead. It's the same argument that was presented in the 'where are the gay people in MCU?' thread. Some people suggested making Cap gay, without understanding that the backstory of that character gets all manner of turned topsy turvy if you do that. You can't just turn Peggy Carter into Pete Carter. Shit don't work like that. Iron Fist could be easier because there's less history there, but come on.

You want an Asian superhero? You should want one that was conceptually created to be done. Not turned into one because Tumblr wanted it.

Well, I can actually argue on the other side too, because I don't really like the "it was always this way so it should stay this way forever" stand either. There could be a logical reason to switch his race if they spread their casting net wide and simply find a guy who fits every requirement of the role and he's Asian. We saw something like that with Kingpin in the Daredevil film, and it definitely worked. Race should not be a barrier to getting a role if the character is not defined by race at a core level.

Unfortunately Hollywood is largely white, so examples like this are really hard to come by. It's easy to be overshadowed by tons of white people fighting for roles preconceived to be white in origin. So I definitely understand the frustration.

My first thought when I read this thread was MCD in Daredevil, oddly enough. It worked out just fine, because race wasn't really a big proponent of the character in that movie. I would assume that it would be here.

It's a dumb thing to get upset about.
 
I don't mean "could they reimagine Iron Fist as an Asian-American", I mean "why does it make sense to be outraged if Iron Fist is not Asian-American". This is similar to the Spider-man debate I think. Would it be interesting to see a different take on Peter Parker as a minority? Sure. Would it be even cooler if they made a Spider-man series or movie with Miguel or Miles instead? Definitely. But does it naturally make sense to be upset if Peter Parker is white like he always is? I don't think so?
It's not about being outraged. It's about picking a battle when it comes to casting and I think it is perfectly valid to pick this battle. It does make sense because Iron Fist is a C-list character at best that has no real baggage with the mainstream audience, his whiteness isn't important, and the comic audience has thousands of other white dudes representing them. Given that most of the heroes on the screen are white dudes, and the continued rhetoric of "you can't change this guys race and you'll get your casting someday just wait" why shouldn't someone be allowed to be upset?
 
So we can make Luke Cage white then, right? Because recently there's been no reason for him to strictly be black...

Sure? I can make a decently strong case of Luke Cage being the ultimate "urban" superhero for those afraid of gang violence and police brutality, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to be black.

But you know why it's different. If not, let me help (via here).

Remove a white character and there are already so many that you don't notice the difference.

tumblr_inline_mrr2lgYLsB1qz4rgp.jpg


Remove a minority character and you will.

tumblr_inline_mrr2nreJPZ1qz4rgp.jpg


This is your visual representation of the problem.

You say excuse/hand waving..I say this is a stupid fucking way to try to get an Asian superhero in the MCU. There's no logical reason to switch his race besides 'but I want him to be Asian!'

This gives me vibes of that thread about the MCU not having any gay characters. Trust me, you don't want to modify existing material into something it isn't. You want a role that's written specifically for that race/gender/sex/etc.

Honestly I want both, because it's a tactic that works. Especially since the MCU isn't batting 100 of straight from the comics accuracy unless you get creative. People argue this, but it certainly isn't true. Which is to say, they make changes all the time, but race is somehow the dividing line? Logically that makes very little sense except in the case of a few characters.

Danny Rand? Really not one of them.

My first thought when I read this thread was MCD in Daredevil, oddly enough. It worked out just fine, because race wasn't really a big proponent of the character in that movie.

Daredevil only needs to be Catholic. The Catholicism is a large part of the character. Being Irish helps the backstory, but that became far less important as we moved away from the era he was created in.

I don't mean "could they reimagine Iron Fist as an Asian-American", I mean "why does it make sense to be outraged if Iron Fist is not Asian-American". This is similar to the Spider-man debate I think. Would it be interesting to see a different take on Peter Parker as a minority? Sure. Would it be even cooler if they made a Spider-man series or movie with Miguel or Miles instead? Definitely. But does it naturally make sense to be upset if Peter Parker is white like he always is? I don't think so?

This I agree with. I'm not upset at all. I just disagree with the premise that change is somehow an issue.
 
Iron Fist could be easier because there's less history there, but come on.

You want an Asian superhero? You should want one that was conceptually created to be done. Not turned into one because Tumblr wanted it.
Okay, you really haven't said why it's stupid for Iron Fist. Come on what?

I think it's okay to want both.
 

mjc

Member
Sure? I can make a decently strong case of Luke Cage being the ultimate "urban" superhero for those afraid of gang violence and police brutality, but that doesn't necessarily mean he has to be black.

Oh I totally get it, Luke Cage was a poor example on my part. You're not wrong either on the pool being smaller.

Changing the race of a character 'just because' is fine for a lot of characters I'd imagine, like the reference to MCD in Daredevil. Race or sexuality isn't an issue with the Kingpin...so it was a good fit. I think in this particular case, saying that Iron Fist has to be Asian just because he's a kung fu fighter seems like a stretch. Could just be me.
 

duckroll

Member
It's not about being outraged. It's about picking a battle when it comes to casting and I think it is perfectly valid to pick this battle. It does make sense because Iron Fist is a C-list character at best that has no real baggage with the mainstream audience, his whiteness isn't important, and the comic audience has thousands of other white dudes representing them. Given that most of the heroes on the screen are white dudes, and the continued rhetoric of "you can't change this guys race and you'll get your casting someday just wait" why shouldn't someone be allowed to be upset?

Oh I can see someone make a case for why it would be an idea to try. Just like the stuff going around about a minority Spider-man. But I think it's one thing to campaign for it, and another thing to make a declaration like "well this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, if Iron Fist isn't Asian-American, I'm fucking out!" which just seems silly and petty right?

The lack of representation in pop culture is something people should be disappointed in. It's a reality of our imperfect world. But flipping out about the possibility that a white character is still white just seems like an oddly strong reaction.
 

Not

Banned
Okay. Whatever. Did you really bump the thread just to declare your self-important opinion that if Marvel does not cast an Asian-America in the role of a character who is supposed to be one of the whitest white boys in NYC, you would boycott a mini-series coming out in 2017? Lol.

Not an entire Asian-America, just one dude.

C'mon, it's obviously important to more folks than just me, Duck. Sick and tired of only the "whitest white boy" getting Asian heritage super powers. It's Carradine-esque.

Sorry for bumping a week-old thread, but I'm serious about this stuff. Danny Rand being Asian is a fantastic idea. Better than Nick Fury being black.

And I'm serious about Defenders, man, "self-important" as that is. Seeing a white guy get zen and do karate chops is going to drive me up the wall.
 

kirblar

Member
Does it really make any more or less sense that suggesting that Daredevil should be Asian America, or that Elektra should Asian-European? Like, if they decide to go in that direction, it could be interesting, but why would it make sense on a conceptual level?
Both Daredevil/Elektra have their ethnic origins (Irish Catholic, Greek) featured very prominently.

Rand's most important beats are that he's a) well-off and b) an outsider. It's one of the big reasons why it would work here when it wouldn't in a lot of other places.
 

Fmal

Banned
Pros of making Iron Fist an Asian-American:
-More diversity in one of the biggest and most important movie and tv franchises on earth.
-We get to watch butthurt nerds (who totally aren't racist I swear, they just really, really, REALLY care about canon!) get mad.

Cons of making Iron Fist an Asian-American:
-The totally fictional story they tell in the show will be a slightly different from the totally fictional story they're basing everything on.
 
Oh I can see someone make a case for why it would be an idea to try. Just like the stuff going around about a minority Spider-man. But I think it's one thing to campaign for it, and another thing to make a declaration like "well this is the straw that breaks the camel's back, if Iron Fist isn't Asian-American, I'm fucking out!" which just seems silly and petty right?

The lack of representation in pop culture is something people should be disappointed in. It's a reality of our imperfect world. But flipping out about the possibility that a white character is still white just seems like an oddly strong reaction.
I agree with it being silly and petty but I can understand why someone would be upset. My posts have mostly been about the validity of changing Danny's race. Should have made that clearer, sorry about that.
 

mjc

Member
Not an entire Asian-America, just one dude.

C'mon, it's obviously important to more folks than just me, Duck. Sick and tired of only the "whitest white boy" getting Asian heritage super powers. It's Carradine-esque.

Sorry for bumping a week-old thread, but I'm serious about this stuff. Danny Rand being Asian is a fantastic idea. Better than Nick Fury being black.

And I'm serious about Defenders, man, "self-important" as that is. Seeing a white guy get zen and do karate chops is going to drive me up the wall.

I know where you're coming from, but again, it doesn't really seem right for this character. It wouldn't bother me personally if he was Asian, but I can imagine it might offend some people that the only major Asian actor in the MCU would be a stereotypical martial arts master.
 
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