No shade to Iron Fist or the fans - again, I haven't read it - but this "he looks different" stuff as a defense for yet another white protagonist is total weaksauce.
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RUMOR: Ryan Phillippe to play Iron Fist?
- Thread starter richiek
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No shade to Iron Fist or the fans - again, I haven't read it - but this "he looks different" stuff as a defense for yet another white protagonist is total weaksauce.
CapNBritain
Member
I think the white guy who's "special" in a crowd of Asians is now a little insulting in how much it has been done to death. See the Netflix series Marco Polo. Funnily enough, he was the blandest part of the show.
Instead of "white guy looks different than us Asians LOL" why not, Asian guy looks the same, but is not. That is interesting and mirrors real world struggles.
Or whatever, make him black or Latino if, for some reason, you really want to cling to the "he looks different" story point. But I don't see why he has to be white when it's a terrible trope.
And just for the record, I would still be happy with a white Danny Rand (as long as the series is good). He's no Human Torch to me. But it would be nice to not see a retread of the white savior trope. It would be nice to see a powerful Asia-American male lead character in the MCU. And it would be nice to see a storyline that doesn't just use Asian culture as a backdrop, but also delves into how that culture affects those caught between two worlds.
Everyone and their mom is an Avenger! When was his last popular and successful solo book? When was Iron Fists'? Guardians of the Galaxy? Daredevil? Shang Chi is not a big character, that's all I meant. That doesn't mean he's not still being used.
His mom is already in Age of Ultron, so the door is open for Amadeus.
EDIT: Apparently it's a spoiler.
Uhhh. If asian savior was a common trope, I don't think many would ask for more Asian representation in western entertainment. lol
uh. fuckin spoilers man. c'mon. fuck.
CapNBritain
Member
A trope is typically something that is overused, cliche. There is no Asian Savior cliche because it is almost never used. And no, random Asian badass in a squad full of non-Asians is not an Asian Savior trope. An Asian Savior trope, that is analogous to the White Savior trope, would be a guy from Asia coming to America and schooling everyone on, I don't know, baseball? And then for that basic story/plot to be the only one used for all baseball movies/shows.
Remapped88
Member
Imo, Christian Howard(Ken from Street Fighter: Assassin's Fist) would make a good Danny Rand.
RadioHammer500
Banned
ok i agree with what you mean by trope...
my disagreement is the idea that a white guy being better at everyone else at a game/sport etc. that's origins are from PoC is problematic?
that's why i mentioned Magnus Carlsen a few times...he's a white guy and is the greatest chess player in the world (maybe all time) yet chess is a game from India..is that wrong? is that appropriation?
i mean that is where my disagreement came from, not the trope its self
I call bullshit. Obviously we wont know of a Shang Chi show until it's actually announced but why you'd expect one at all any time soon is beyond me. You have no evidence to show Shang Chi is as big a character as Danny Rand in any current Marvel universe. He's orders of magnitude more obscure than Iron Fist.
Well he's getting a mini-series in May so we'll see how it does, but its not like Iron Fist can even carry a book these days. It seems pretty hard for solo books to take off these days.
I would say that the fact that he looks different is a big part of the story. Particularly if you follow the Fraction/Brubaker stories about how his predecessor abandoned Kun Lun
True, but Iron Fist is getting his own live action series. That's more than I can say for Shang Chi. Maybe after BattleWorld, Shang Chi will be a hit and his popularity will soar, causing Marvel to take note and fast track a new series for Netflix before the end of the decade. Maybe, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
the point is he is neither unused nor as obscure as you claimed is all. but I have a feeling you will continue to stick to your schtick so im out
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Not saying they can't be good at something. (If you read Immortal Iron Fist, they fix the issue by putting it in a better context.) But there's a clear trend in some stories, where a white person comes into an ethnic culture, and ends up being the best at it. The natives couldn't handle the problem until the white man came.
I wouldn't say Magnus Carlsen is an example of what we're even talking about. Chess has gone past it's Indian origins, it's a global game and isn't the embodiment of Indian culture.
He should probably just be a minor reoccurring character in the MCU Netflix world.
I honestly feel the only reason Iron Fist is getting a series is for the Jones/Cage/Iron Fist dynamic with Dare Devil being thrown in because he's a popular street level hero that Marvel just got back.
ShaperofStories
Member
The best part of reading through this thread was people acting indignant about Iron Fist not being portrayed by an Asian, and thusly, demonstrating that they know little to nothing about the character in the first place.
Fuckin aye, I am not saying he is a completely unknown and abandoned character. I'm saying he is not on par with Iron Fist in any way when it comes to use as a character by Marvel/Disney or in terms of popularity among readers.
Well it is pretty great. Only Spiderman and Human Torch's friendship is greater
Yep
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Do you know the backstory of Dr. Strange? He goes to the Himalayas and saves an Asian guy (Sorceror Supreme) from having his Asian student kill him. He's taught up there how to become a sorceror. The recent marvel animated movie has him learning up there with the rest of the Himalayan sorceror society which are also all Asian. He's chosen to be the next Sorceror Supreme, instead of any of the other Asian sorcerors that have been studying there for years. Then let's not get into him having an Asian sidekick and manservant named Wong......
Have you seen Japanese Anime approved by Lord Emperor Obama?
CapNBritain
Member
Oh yeah, there's nothing wrong with a white person being the best at something that is traditionally non-white. It just sucks that when it comes to other cultures, especially Asian ones, western media thinks audiences need a white POV character that ends up being special all the time.
I would have no problem with a black Iron Fist. Well, except for the fact that it would make the Iron Fist/Power Dynamic less fun. Hmmm, maybe IF should be white then just to preserve that dynamic.
But no RZA> He hasn't impressed me with his acting chops (GI Joe 2).
His being an outsider is a big deal. He would still be an outsider if he was Asian-American. And the fact that he looks similar, but isn't, makes the conflict more subtle and interesting.
Edit:
Uh, who is being indignant? I'm just saying it would be cool if he was.
RadioHammer500
Banned
i thought they already casted Strange i thought
no I think it does the exact opposite. Especially if you go by the Fraction/Bru run and his predecessor (white) abandoning Kun Lun. Makes him the Ultimate outsider.
CapNBritain
Member
We'll just have to agree to disagree here then. I think it's more interesting to have Asians hate on other Asians for being too westernized because that's a real thing that affects a lot of Asian-Americans. And the fact that it's abstracted another layer since Kun-Lun is a mystical city makes it even more interesting.
Heck, keep the fact that Orson is white! It could be why Kun-Lun dislikes western influences and sees an AA Danny as tainted by them.
But that's just my opinion.
Yeah. Asian is the one race it makes no sense to make him.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Yes. You'll still have savior comments though.
thesuperku
Member
I think the difference there is asians have never culturally claimed to be behind the origins of magic. Sooooo really anybody can be Sorceror Supreme and it doesn't sound too bad to me.
I'm sorry to anybody I irked with my previous comment. I think fallengorn nailed what I was trying to say in better words.
So far I've been told in this thread that Asians can't like Asian martial artists and now that Asians can't feel like an outsider among other Asians. I wonder what else I'm going to learn about myself.
Savior of the entire earth
CapNBritain
Member
Yeah, the magic stuff isn't really tied to Asian culture. Except for maybe the fact that the Ancient One lives in Tibet and is presumably Asian? I mean, Baron Mordo was European and Stephen Strange was American. Originally it was pretty much just the three of them. Wong being a karate servant is definitely a holdover from the 60s though.
Just cause you're Asian doesn't mean you understand the Asian culture and mentality. It's obvious that White people know better.
/s
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
To be honest the squad is Iron Fist, Luke Cage, Paladin, Shan Chi, Colleen Wing, and Jessica Jones (now at least). I wouldn't be shocked if any of those characters showed up. When it comes to TV/Film more will be left out than included unfortunately/ time and effort is more than a comic mini series, but hopefully all of the those characters show up they basically carried the 70's at marvel along with DD , Punisher and GR.
IrishNinja
Member
*fistbump to moony bros*
haha let em know
oh yes. In fact I think I'd rather a Shang Chi show than Iron Fist, it would be damn good. Guy is so awesome, lots of potential if done correctly
That alligator arm tattoo. haha
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Nostremitus
Member
So, help me out...
Is the Iron Fist's story similar to that of Ken Masters in Street Fighter?
Is the Iron Fist's story similar to that of Ken Masters in Street Fighter?
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Ryan Phillipe can be Iron Fist
Karl Urban should be The Punisher
Hugh Dancy should be Moon Knight
I mean, he's pretty good at playing insane and sympathetic and violent.
Karl Urban should be The Punisher
Hugh Dancy should be Moon Knight
I mean, he's pretty good at playing insane and sympathetic and violent.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck off.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
GAF (and the internet in general) does tend to have a really weird perception of aging.
Extra Sauce
Member
So just because he knows Kung Fu, he has to be Chinese? Come on bro... we've moved past that. Now every superhero can be a white hetero male regardless of their abilities.
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