Jordan said:
Lebron should have been finals MVP. He averaged a triple double.
No, you are using an extreme example, an outlier, to prove that the triple double is meaningless. I am saying, historically, MOST triple doubles have a markedly high impact on a game.
Generally speaking, it isn't some guy shooting 5-20 to score 10 points and squeak by. If it is, that person usually rightfully gets ridiculed.
Put it this way, we saw that when Russ left the games in the playoffs vs. HOU that leads would instantly disappear. That team was hot garbage with him not on the floor. So to point to what you point to to discredit his ACTUAL efforts as meaningless, feels agenda based.
I'm using outliers to explain why a statistic isn't meaningful because that's how you determine if a statistic is meaningful. If you have to add all of these qualifiers to a triple double (how many points did he score, how well did he shoot, did he turn it over a lot, did his teammates play well off of him?) to decide if a triple double is impressive, then simply the act of getting a triple double itself doesn't tell you much, and there are much better ways to analyze a player's performance, and much better stats to tell you that.
Point taken.
Doesn't work in Russ's case though, so what are we doing?
Let's be honest though, Russ stat padded the shit out of those rebounds and his team mates just let him have them.
I think Harden should've been MVP but all three were worthy winners.
There are like 2 teams in the NBA that deserve to be called stacked. The team whose second best player was Eric Gordon is not one of them.
Simply that there are far better cases you can make for Russ' MVP worth than a completely random and arbitrary grouping of numbers.
Terrible choice. Should have been James Harden.
Hardly. Talking about his triple doubles works for him (and most players who get triple doubles) since he wasn't averaging them while stinking it up on the floor.
And how do you determine that he wasn't stinking up the floor while getting a triple double?
If you're asking me whether or not the MVP winner's stats stunk lol
And how do you determine that he wasn't stinking up the floor while getting a triple double?
The dude that choked in the playoffs and didn't set, like, any records?
No I'm saying in general if someone gets a triple double, how do you determine if they played well or stunk up the joint?
By watching the games and not trying to apply some outlier to make the the entire thing "meaningless".
You could apply that outlier razor to any sports acheivement and make it appear less than meaningful.
QB throws for 400+ yards...pitcher throws a no hitter, a hat trick, etc.
What does setting records have to do with being the MVP?
How far did OKC go in the playoffs? Which team knocked them out again I can't remember
You don't pick MVP of your league based off those metrics. You don't give the Cy Young to someone because they threw a no hitter.
By using these things.
By watching the games and not trying to apply some outlier to make the the entire thing "meaningless".
You could apply that outlier razor to any sports acheivement and make it appear less than meaningful.
QB throws for 400+ yards...pitcher throws a no hitter, a hat trick, etc.
But you DO give the CY Young based on a pitcher's performance, correct? Do we use some outlier metric to try and discredit his year?
...The debate over Russ's MVP candidacy is about whether the insanely high usage rate and playing style puts a clear ceiling on his team's potential, not about the quality of his individual performance.
So you are saying there are better ways of analyzing a player's performance than simply the act of getting a triple double, which is all I've been trying to say. To say "a triple double alone doesn't tell you much, but in Russ' case it tells you a lot because **insert qualifiers here**" is the entire point. In this case you are admitting it's not simply that Russ averaged a triple double that makes his season impressive. Triple Double is it not the be all/end all, hell its barely even really a stat. Due to historical context it's fun to follow, I get that, I just get annoyed when people take the stance of "he averaged a triple double case closed!" Which I heard a lot with this year's MVP race. It's lazy.
So you are saying there are better ways of analyzing a player's performance than simply the act of getting a triple double, which is all I've been trying to say. To say "a triple double alone doesn't tell you much, but in Russ' case it tells you a lot because **insert qualifiers here**" is the entire point. In this case you are admitting it's not simply that Russ averaged a triple double that makes his season impressive. Triple Double is it not the be all/end all, hell its barely even really a stat. Due to historical context it's fun to follow, I get that, I just get annoyed when people take the stance of "he averaged a triple double case closed!" Which I heard a lot with this year's MVP race. It's lazy.
Going by this logic Kawhi should be MVP because he knocked out Harden.
MVP is a regular season award given to the player who most impacts his team throughout the entire season and is invaluable to them winning. YNB arguably fills that more than Harden and Kawhi. OKC would be straight up garbage without him.
I don't think they're that much better with him either though. They only finished 6 in the west and went 4-1 against the Rockets in the first round. I don't think the MVP should awarded based on averaging a triple double.
I think you can make a better case for either Harden or Kawhi getting the MVP.
Nope! Beard did well on a stacked team. Russell carried table scraps to the playoffs.
Voti Per Shoo Adva
Rank Player Age Tm First Pts Won Pts Max Share G MP PTS TRB AST STL BLK FG% 3P% FT% WS WS/48
1 Steve Nash 31 PHO 57.0 924.0 1250 0.739 79 35.4 18.8 4.2 10.5 0.8 0.2 .512 .439 .921 12.4 .212
2 LeBron James 21 CLE 16.0 688.0 1250 0.550 79 42.5 31.4 7.0 6.6 1.6 0.8 .480 .335 .738 16.3 .232
3 Dirk Nowitzki 27 DAL 14.0 544.0 1250 0.435 81 38.1 26.6 9.0 2.8 0.7 1.0 .480 .406 .901 17.7 .275
4 Kobe Bryant 27 LAL 22.0 483.0 1250 0.386 80 41.0 35.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 .450 .347 .850 15.3 .224
5 Chauncey Billups 29 DET 15.0 430.0 1250 0.344 81 36.1 18.5 3.1 8.6 0.9 0.1 .418 .433 .894 15.5 .254
6 Dwyane Wade 24 MIA 0.0 87.0 1250 0.070 75 38.6 27.2 5.7 6.7 1.9 0.8 .495 .171 .783 14.4 .239
7 Elton Brand 26 LAC 1.0 50.0 1250 0.040 79 39.2 24.7 10.0 2.6 1.0 2.5 .527 .333 .775 14.8 .229
8 Tim Duncan 29 SAS 0.0 33.0 1250 0.026 80 34.8 18.6 11.0 3.2 0.9 2.0 .484 .400 .629 10.8 .187
9 Tony Parker 23 SAS 0.0 9.0 1250 0.007 80 33.9 18.9 3.3 5.8 1.0 0.1 .548 .306 .707 9.6 .169
10T Allen Iverson 30 PHI 0.0 1.0 1250 0.001 72 43.1 33.0 3.2 7.4 1.9 0.1 .447 .323 .814 10.6 .165
10T Shawn Marion 27 PHO 0.0 1.0 1250 0.001 81 40.3 21.8 11.8 1.8 2.0 1.7 .525 .331 .809 14.6 .214
I still believe Harden shoulda won when Steph got his first
Kawhi was the best player all year. IT was probably the most valuable player on a team that mattered and performed above expectations. I'd take either over WB/Harden. Westbrook wouldn't even start for the Warriors :/.
Cavs beat Warriors in 6 if not for Durant. Durant turned an already good franchise into possibly the best shooting team of all time.
Neither would Isiah Thomas.
I still believe Harden shoulda won when Steph got his first
After KD left? Bullshit. I saw exactly one season preview that said that. Others had Houston comfortably higher in the power rankings.
"But the Beard..."
Eh Warriors were sucky in a bunch of the games outside of Durant. He was the only one consistent basically the whole series.Cavs would beat the Warriors in 6 without KD when they needed a miracle last year to win in 7 with a hobbled Curry and a Draymond suspension?
please.
Well deserved.
The NBA regular season was 2 months ago, this is ridiculous
Deserved it as much as anyone else.
Eh Warriors were sucky in a bunch of the games outside of Durant. He was the only one consistent basically the whole series.