Ah, almost missed this. Will def check it out. But weren't we supposed to have PCIE6.0 by now.
lol. Maybe Sony will finally unlock the internal slot around this time. The update is supposed to be in June or July.will it be faster than PS5 superior SSD?
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i hope they announce a PS5 version internal SSD.lol. Maybe Sony will finally unlock the internal slot around this time. The update is supposed to be in June or July.
will it be faster than PS5 superior SSD?
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I think its probably more so this:i hope they announce a PS5 version internal SSD.
WD has one too.Would think so. Samsung and Corsair already have PCIe drives with 7,000Mb/s read speeds. Believe that is the speed Cerny highlighted in his tech reveal that would be needed for PS5 storage expansion options.
Would think so. Samsung and Corsair already have PCIe drives with 7,000Mb/s read speeds. Believe that is the speed Cerny highlighted in his tech reveal that would be needed for PS5 storage expansion options.
It could be that during testing it was revealed even those drives aren't fast enough to keep up with the custom drive and I/O of the PS5 so they are waiting for even faster ones to hit the market.
Well, then Sony designed some shit hardware as that would mean that everyone with a PS5 right now will never be able to upgrade their internal storage. 7.8GB/s is the max speed that M.2 slot can handle and that's theoretical. Practical 7GB/s is the end of it.It could be that during testing it was revealed even those drives aren't fast enough to keep up with the custom drive and I/O of the PS5 so they are waiting for even faster ones to hit the market.
7Gbps is the upper limit of PCIE4, so if what you suggest is true that means the external SSD slot will never be used.
It could be that during testing it was revealed even those drives aren't fast enough to keep up with the custom drive and I/O of the PS5 so they are waiting for even faster ones to hit the market.
We shall see, they did hedge their bets by prioritising work on PS5 games backup and ensuring devs had tools to make games as small as they can… so far the latter delivered quite good results.Well, then Sony designed some shit hardware as that would mean that everyone with a PS5 right now will never be able to upgrade their internal storage. 7.8GB/s is the max speed that M.2 slot can handle and that's theoretical. Practical 7GB/s is the end of it.
PCIE 6.0 is coming out this year.No PCIE standards evolve pretty slowly compared to other tech.
will it be faster than PS5 superior SSD?
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Well, then Sony designed some shit hardware as that would mean that everyone with a PS5 right now will never be able to upgrade their internal storage. 7.8GB/s is the max speed that M.2 slot can handle and that's theoretical. Practical 7GB/s is the end of it.
How big is the expansion slot? All these drives get quite hot. Is there room for the drive and a fairly large cooler?
Do we know PS5's sustained rates?The question would be is it sustainable or it'll throttle down like almost all NVMe m.2 SSD's. If anything I think Sony should make their own that mimics the internal one because PC market seems too slow to evolve. It will also get the attention of PC gamers as it should as well work on PC's. The Sony flash controller looks big though, not sure how it'll fit in the traditional NVMe m.2 SSD:
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You really making yourself sound ignorant. PS5's SSD design just happens to sustain speeds with 4x more paralleled orders (6 priority levels vs 2) compared to the inferior NVMe m.2 SSD's available in the market. 7GB/s doesn't cut all the architectural deficiencies in the high end NVMe m.2 SSD's. Having 12-channel per 12-module for a 1:1 ratio helps with the data flow more than 8-channel with 16-module of 1:2 ratio.
Xbox on the other hand cut down to only 2x lanes and 4-channel per around 16-module, 1:4 ratio. Above that it's DRAM-less low budget SSD so the CPU must do the seeking.
That would fit the smaller coolers, not the bigger ones though.It has room for very large ones actually, and you can just keep the cover out instead of closing it if the negative air tunnel isn't good enough.
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It can take even slightly larger than what's offered in the market, not sure if they're cooking something but Sony already makes top quality memory cards for cameras and camcorders.
PC SSD's aren't made with sustainable speeds in mind, that's the problem. They throttle down pretty fast.
The question would be is it sustainable or it'll throttle down like almost all NVMe m.2 SSD's. If anything I think Sony should make their own that mimics the internal one because PC market seems too slow to evolve. It will also get the attention of PC gamers as it should as well work on PC's. The Sony flash controller looks big though, not sure how it'll fit in the traditional NVMe m.2 SSD:
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You really making yourself sound ignorant. PS5's SSD design just happens to sustain speeds with 4x more paralleled orders (6 priority levels vs 2) compared to the inferior NVMe m.2 SSD's available in the market. 7GB/s doesn't cut all the architectural deficiencies in the high end NVMe m.2 SSD's. Having 12-channel per 12-module for a 1:1 ratio helps with the data flow more than 8-channel with 16-module of 1:2 ratio.
Xbox on the other hand cut down to only 2x lanes and 4-channel per around 16-module, 1:4 ratio. Above that it's DRAM-less low budget SSD so the CPU must do the seeking.
Do we know PS5's sustained rates?
Both sn850 and 980 pro sustain over 5gbsWith how fast thinks go in and out with R&C and the overkill stress test of raw 8K assets on UE5 with zero stutter it seems to be sustainable at least at 5GB/s raw. The modules and the flash controller are all directly cooled by the gigantic heatsink as well.
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Both sn850 and 980 pro sustain over 5gbs
That would fit the smaller coolers, not the bigger ones though.
PC SSD's aren't made with sustainable speeds in mind, that's the problem. They throttle down pretty fast.
The new E18 paired with 176-layer fills the crucial role in the Phison product stack as the highest performing E18 to date. The potent combination delivers up to 7,400 MB/s sequential reads and 7,000 MB/s sequential writes.
The largest gains arrive in random read latency where the new premium tier shows a 35% performance increase over previous models at low queue depth improving user experience in system responsiveness. The new E18 delivers the best game load times of any consumer SSD in its class.
“We worked closely with our technology partners to deliver a premium product to dominate the game of game load times. E18 combined with industry leading 176-layer media maximizes the PCIe Gen4 bus delivering overpowering performance that you feel in the user experience,” said Michael Wu, President and GM of Phison Electronics US.
The 176-layer replacement gate architecture NAND combines charge traps with a CMOS-under-array (CuA) design. The flash has an approximate 30% smaller die size compared to previous generation 96-layer NAND and has a 35% increase in read and write performance.
They only have 2 priority levels, PS5 have 6, thus they need to be even faster than 5.5GB sustained to make up the difference.Both sn850 and 980 pro sustain over 5gbs
Doesn't matter how many times you try to tell people PS5's storage and data transfer tech is in another league from everything else on the market. They just can't grasp it because they are so used to thinking PC is the best they can't see how it has been leapfrogged with an all new approach. Cerny is still spinning heads a year after the reveal.
The reason for the throttling and not being able sustain speeds on previous drives is the controller. They all used the phison e16 and all of the issues can be traced back to the controller (including heat and the resulting heatsink requirements).
This is the new controller that will be used on most PCIe 4.0 drives going forwards (the phison e18):
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New Phison E18 Flash Controller for 176-Layer NAND Now Commercially Available
Phison Electronics Corp. (TPEX: 8299), a global leader in NAND flash controller integrated circuits and storage solutions, today announces shipping ofwww.businesswire.com
They only have 2 priority levels, PS5 have 6, thus they need to be even faster than 5.5GB sustained to make up the difference.
You wont see that in any consumer products for probably another 3 or 4 years.PCIE 6.0 is coming out this year.
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PCI Express 6.0 ger ovanligt stora förändringar innan årets slut
Version 0.71 av specifikationen väntas inom kort och den slutgiltiga versionen ser ut att lanseras enligt plan innan årsskiftet.www.sweclockers.com
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They only have 2 priority levels, PS5 have 6, thus they need to be even faster than 5.5GB sustained to make up the difference.
Hope it's good enough, still doubt it anyway especially when the SSD is active for long periods during gameplay. SSD's on PC aren't made with constant data streaming in mind, nor gaming like a virtual RAM to boost GPU/CPU efficiencies without wasteful computations off screen.
A dedicated DMA controller (equivalent to one or two Zen 2 cores in performance terms) directs data to where it needs to be, while two dedicated, custom processors handle I/O and memory mapping. On top of that, coherency engines operate as housekeepers of sorts.
"What's relevant is the M.2 drive's external interface (eg four lanes of Gen4 PCIe so it can hook up to our flash controller) and the read bandwidth it can support via that interface."
6 channels are useless for anybody else then sony, so honestly not really important for the market itself.
Well if that's the case then you wont be getting any SSD's that will be compatible with the PS5.
The only thing about the PS5 drive that is "special" is the controller but that is not onboard the SSD itself:
I imagine worst case, they would just reserve a part of the internal SSD to maintain max streaming speed if you have a slightly sub optimal M.2. So the expansion M.2 becomes a transparent "cold" storage.
The other option would be that they nerf the internal SSD speed. But I don't really see that happening.
Not channels. To break it down to you it's like having 6 trucks that can be sent to fitch data vs 2 trucks. This is helpful to avoid lip sync problems and different other logic lags in-game. Here's Mark Cerny talking about an example:
To avoid some trolls (not you) skipping and not watching 1-2 minutes here it is: (7 screenshots)
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Outside the controller the external SSD will use the same I/O perks, but you need a flash controller that's on par with the internal one. Although Cerny said that they'll try to use that extra 7GB/s to compensate for priority levels via I/O, but then that's expecting it to be sustainable speed.
I've explained what's special about the SSD few posts above, it's a 1:1 relation between channels and chips, that's not available on PC. Also making 6 orders simultatiously vs 2 is a massive deal, and that's outside the I/O so you need an SSD with similar flash controller.
It's called NVMe SSD.i hope they announce a PS5 version internal SSD.
It's called NVMe SSD.![]()
Well if that's the case then you wont be getting any SSD's that will be compatible with the PS5.
The only thing about the PS5 drive that is "special" is the controller but that is not onboard the SSD itself:
Yup, internal partition came in mind as well, but that will degrade the SSD pretty fast because of constant writing and deleting. It is a massive problem and many expected Sony to have a hard time approving external storage. So for now they can just use it to move in and out games that you're not playing for those who don't have access to fast internet or suffer from internet caps.
Well if that's the case then you wont be getting any SSD's that will be compatible with the PS5.
The only thing about the PS5 drive that is "special" is the controller but that is not onboard the SSD itself:
I was thinking more like a partition dedicated to streaming that devs can point to. They will just make the game to be aware of 2 drives that they can pull from. Most of the game is still installed on the expansion but when the game needs max streaming speed that specific data goes on the internal. No idea if it's possible but it seems reasonable.
PS5's SSD is custom though, not NVMe architecture. That what made it superior actually.
What is this have faith in Cerny crap? You on the Sony payroll or something?Could be they will have to work with a manufacturer to create a custom controller for the M2 drives. Don't worry, have faith in Cerny.
Ah, almost missed this. Will def check it out. But weren't we supposed to have PCIE6.0 by now.
No PCIE standards evolve pretty slowly compared to other tech.
Have faith in Cerny and you too will gain the knowledge, wisdom and understanding to see the future.What is this have faith in Cerny crap? You on the Sony payroll or something?
What is this have faith in Cerny crap? You on the Sony payroll or something?
Problem is every console will have data saved in different spots across all 12 chips, it's either full partition of the whole game or not. In other words, 32-64GB RAM would've helped here.