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SEGA Announce New Aliens vs. Predator Game
- Thread starter butsomuch
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plagiarize
Banned
the editors cut (the longer one in the quadrilogy set) actually passed Aliens as my second favourite in the series. don't be too horrified. i prefer the body of David Fincher's work to Cameron's. also, while Aliens is definately the one to always go to for inspiration while making a video game (it really pulls off horror action better than anything before or since) i like that Alien 3 is tonally more like the original in terms of being more of a straight horror piece.vazel said:
i love the religious overtones. i love the bleakness of it. i love the prison stuff. the theatrical cut has some really stupid stuff in it though.
it's the only extended/alternate cut of any of the movies that i prefer. i know Resurrection had an alternate cut, but i don't remember any of the differences making any real difference. Alien and Aliens theatrical versions are definately better (though i would have liked it if Cameron had kept the sentry guns in the theatrical cut... the rest is interesting supplemental stuff but weakens the film).
don't be fooled by Cameron's director's cuts. he had final cut on the theatrical version, same as he did with T2, and same as with T2 his original theatrical cut was better
hell i hated 3 when i first saw it. i think like everyone else i wanted Aliens 2 rather than Alien 3... but going back to it after gaining appreciation for Fincher's other movies, and seeing something closer to what his ideas were... i just really found new appreciation for it.
it's Alien 3. he murders everything Cameron created. that was pretty ballsy if nothing else... but those characters were so James Cameron and he had his own designs.
Oh Christ now you're saying the theatrical cut of Aliens was better? The Aliens charging the gun sentries and it running out of ammo was one of the most awesome scenes in the movie. Seeing Ripley's long cryosleep consequences in her daughter being dead was also a good scene. You're just so full of wrong in this thread.
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
vazel said:
I woke up. Why don't you?
both director's cuts (fincher's and cameron's) are better than the theatrical releases. in alien3's case it is actually a pretty good flick compared to the meh theatrical release. i don't hate the theatrical release. at least it's better than alien resurrection. i hated that piece of shit.
plagiarize
Banned
like i said, i wish he'd kept the sentry gun sequence...vazel said:
but it just takes SO goddamn long to get to the aliens.
i didn't need Ripley to be all 'oh i am so maternal because i lost my daughter'. i just accepted her mothering of Newt and felt it was more genuine originally than when she has this extra motivation. it's like Newt in the extended cut is a rebound child.
it's interesting to see the colony in it's regular functioning form, and to see the derelict again and to see Newt's family go out and have that being when the infection is brought back... but i much prefer being with the marines in having no idea what we're walking into... not just in terms of knowing how bad the situation is (cause it's pretty obviously bad) but in terms of also having no idea what the colony was like before.
none of the characters we sympathize with had that knowledge.
also it's stupid having Newt be 'the one' that saw it all. just too obvious. again, it's best when this cute little girl just shows up unexpected. the extended cut, it's much more obvious that it's her where as in the the theatrical it's a bigger surprise.
i'd never recommend someone watch the extended cut first personally, but if they enjoy the theatrical i'd totally recommend it for the interesting back story... it just undermines the tension if you get all that first time through, and like i say makes Ripley's mothering of Newt seem more selfish than genuine.
the auto sentry scene is awesome though. no question. cutting it was madness... however all the cuts up to the point we see the first Alien... all good cuts. the pacing is totally off in the extended cut.
plagiarize
Banned
i'm going to be a pedant.legbone said:
the theatrical cut of Aliens was cut by James Cameron who had final say. the other cut is an extended cut. i believe the extended isn't his preferred cut of the movie and it isn't mine.
Fincher never has and sadly never will cut a version of Alien 3. he walked off set before they'd finished shooting. he had cut together a lot of scenes after the first shooting block to try to figure out what they needed to go back and shoot to finish the film (they started without a finished script) with an editor. it was that editor that assembled the extended cut on Alien 3 as a best guess of how Fincher may have finished the film.
it's a much better film, but it isn't Fincher's cut. he refuses to even acknowledge Alien 3.
I did appreciate the attempt to bring aliens back to the horror genre and having a very unique setting and direction, but it didn't work for me at all. For a horror film to work you have to have characters you care about or at least find entertaining. I felt nothing watching these personality-deficient inmates were picked apart.
Ah, well...I'm sure we can all agree that predator 2 was terrible. >_>
EDIT: I totally agree about the extended cuts of alien and aliens. They're the ones I watch regularly, but they do really kill the pacing and suspense.
Ah, well...I'm sure we can all agree that predator 2 was terrible. >_>
EDIT: I totally agree about the extended cuts of alien and aliens. They're the ones I watch regularly, but they do really kill the pacing and suspense.
i kinda found myself rooting for the aliens in alien3 because of that. 
anyway, yeah predator 2 is pretty bad but danny glover is the man. and if i'm not mistaken again, isn't it the origin of the idea that the predators had encountered the xenomorphs?
edit: if correct about that last issue, then i will give predator 2 a pass since avp owes quite a bit to it.
anyway, yeah predator 2 is pretty bad but danny glover is the man. and if i'm not mistaken again, isn't it the origin of the idea that the predators had encountered the xenomorphs?edit: if correct about that last issue, then i will give predator 2 a pass since avp owes quite a bit to it.
legbone said:i kinda found myself rooting for the aliens in alien3 because of that.
edit: if correct about that last issue, then i will give predator 2 a pass since avp owes quite a bit to it.
Yes, but it was more of a passing reference/in-joke than a canonical connection at that point. The movie is wretched, but I'm glad it exists.
pieatorium
Member
Good horror films need fodder for the beasties/badass you get behind Ripley the doctor and the Black preacher dude.luka said:
plagiarize
Banned
looked it up. Cameron prefers the extended cut. i was getting confused with Ridley Scott calling the 'directors cut' of Alien a studio marketing ploy and while a version of the movie he's happy with, not the definitive version.
plagiarize
Banned
it also introduces half of the pred's arsenal and establishes he has various vision modes.luka said:Yes, but it was more of a passing reference/in-joke than a canonical connection at that point. The movie is wretched, but I'm glad it exists.
it isn't a cinematic wonder, but there was some good source material for the games. that's why i'm not worried to here that the new AvP game takes some stuff from the AvP movies.
Tokubetsu
Member
legbone said:i kinda found myself rooting for the aliens in alien3 because of that.
edit: if correct about that last issue, then i will give predator 2 a pass since avp owes quite a bit to it.
I believe a Dark Horse comic came out a little earlier in the same year as well but for the most part, yeah Predator 2 was the first real big nods towards AvP.
Can we please just get back to the thread. I think me, luka, and plagiarize should stop posting in this thread for a while.
Edit: Or I don't know maybe it's good to derail the thread with elements that influenced the game. Let's just hope in the official thread we talk about the actual game.
Edit: Or I don't know maybe it's good to derail the thread with elements that influenced the game. Let's just hope in the official thread we talk about the actual game.
pieatorium
Member
The Pax wasn't in Alien 3luka said:
pieatorium
Member
I think you have confused yourself, you brought up Paxton in a conversation about Alien 3 not me.luka said:
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
Predator 2 is a better Predator movie than the original.
I agree that the assembly cut of Alien 3 is fantastic (compared to the movie). I spent the last 20 minutes reading up on the development of the movie and it's quite interesting to say the least. It makes you wonder how the franchise would be different if they kept the "alien virus" (the aliens spread viruses to the human that turn them into mutated aliens) aspect of the original scripts.
Say what you will, but it did help flesh out the Predators backstory and "culture". Also, it did help AvP get more popularity.
luka said:
Say what you will, but it did help flesh out the Predators backstory and "culture". Also, it did help AvP get more popularity.
pieatorium said:
Le sigh. I said alien 3 failed as a horror film because of it's lack of interesting and likable characters. Alien had a group of generally nice and sympathetic people and it was frightening seeing them getting picked off. Aliens had a cast of wonderfully amusing and wisecracking marines (including "the Pax"). 3 had...fodder. As you said. Thus, not frightening. Even Ripley wasn't the same. She had nothing left to live for and she certainly didn't care about anyone else at that point.
Fodder makes good gore porn. Alien is creeping horror, it's never been about the violence.
Rated-Rsuperstar said:
Now you're just doing this to mess with me. :lol
Rated-Rsuperstar
Member
legbone said:
Yeah. The original is an Arnold movie first then a Predator film second. Predator 2 does a lot more to expand the creature and mythos. Plus, the movie is about as violent as it can get and satisfies my blood lust.
pieatorium
Member
ANd like I said you had Ripley the doctor guy and the preacher, shit even 85.luka said:
Both of those were hacked to death.Tokubetsu said:
Scott actually likes his Theatrical for Alien.
And Cameron always goes with his bloated Extended cuts. Which basically adds some generic cheese to characters...which really doesn't do much at all.
Also you are not the only one who prefers Alien3 to Aliens. As a kid, I really loved Aliens the best. But as I got older, Once the wow worn off and the film qualities had to stand on their own. You notice how extremely cliche the entire thing is. In which case, I ended up vastly preferring Alien and over time, Alien3 to it. Set design is still amazing, and visually holds up well. I think the most annoying thing is exactly what people bitch about Alien3 doing...It ruined Ripley and everything Cameron done. But really it felt like Cameron ruined everything Scott did. Ripley in Alien was really...human to say. She showed selfish actions, brave, cowardliness, etc. Then in Aliens she goes to perfect. No more actual development other than Cameron slapping in that she was a
mother
I'll also note this. I actually enjoyed this about the franchise. Each one is completely different from the last one. Instead of trying to do what Die Hard 2 did, and attempt to just mimic the first one. Enjoyable, but it feels empty.
shintoki said:
I don't think you could call it cliche. Outside of books like Starship Troopers there really wasn't much to compare it to. Aliens took the story in a far more hollywood direction that snagged elements from war movies and the like and it was pretty blatant about it, but brought a lot of it's own elements into the mix. Love it or not it was a great movie and did what it set out to do wonderfully. Some people prefer the isolationist horror of the original and what alien 3 tries to bring back and would thus be a more enjoyable movie for them, but that doesn't make it a better movie. Alien was fantastic, 3 tried a similar approach but failed. I'm looking at it as a movie, not an "Alien" story or anything.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
I like Alien better than Aliens. But I still love them both.
You guys need to start playing some avp2 mp. Should help kill time before the big one drops. You don't even need a cd key anymore since they shut down the official servers so go nuts. We need more people playing anyway.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/avp2-project-savior
(yep, just another excuse to show off how awesome I am )
http://www.moddb.com/mods/avp2-project-savior
(yep, just another excuse to show off how awesome I am
)
vazel said:
It can be a pain but when there are only a couple active servers you take what you can get. It's admittedly a bit of a crapshoot finding a good game but it's still quite fun, although I really hate how some servers still insist of banning any weapon they feel is "overpowered." Sometimes it's the smartgun, sometimes it's the rocket launcher, sometimes it's the disc, but it's always something. It's pretty retarded.
Truant said:
I can think of plenty of other reasons why avp2 is inferior, but that's probably at the bottom of the list. Still had a better pulse rifle than Jaguar avp. >_>
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
plagiarize said:
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The fact Cameron wanted there to be a Ripley/Newt/Hicks combo for third alien, to continue their family adventure, is reason enough to happy he never touched it.
Alien 3 EC is awesome. Really awesome. Glad to see others here enjoyed it.
Alien 3 EC is awesome. Really awesome. Glad to see others here enjoyed it.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
EatChildren said:
Hicks defending his makeshift family from a prison planet inhabited with rapists and murderers would have been better than the piece of shit that was the Alien retread aka Alien 3.
Its hard not to get bored with Alien 3 since it attempts to create tension with one Xenomorph again when we already know what it looks like and how it acts. What was so great about the first Alien is that you had no idea how it operated and it never quite showed you the whole thing till the end.
Cameron found a solution and Fincher (as much as I like him) regressed the series.
plagiarize
Banned
you say 'regressed' i say 'went back to the core of the idea'. it's all opinion of course. i think Alien 3 is very much it's own movie and far from an Alien retread. espescially in the extended cut which is so much better it's hard to fathom. Alien 3 as released was basically running away from an alien for the whole film until the ending... the extended cut was so much more.Scullibundo said:
plus, i love the dog alien. it was totally my class in AvP2 and i still have one sat by my PC as a result. me and a guy named RedRiot used to totally blow through crunchy humans tag teaming as dog aliens. if we were the first two people to get killed in AvP2 survivor (which is basically what infestation in the new one is) the round would be over in very short order.
i am very much looking forwards to resuming the feeding.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Scullibundo said:
It wasn't a retread. It returned to the theme of being one individual alien, but touched on many of its own themes.
It stands alone, in my opinion, much like Alien and Aliens.
spookyfish
Gold Member
Sorry had to chime in here: There is no "director's cut" of Alien 3. Fincher disowned the movie because of the studio's rampant involvement. (Watch the intro on the front of the Quadrilogy disc.) What you're seeing is more of the producer's cut.
And 3 is vastly inferior to the others in the series in every way. And, yes, I realize I'm including Resurrection in that statement, if only to say the CG in that film is at least used properly. Alien 3's CG was horrible when it was released.
Anyway, back to work.
And 3 is vastly inferior to the others in the series in every way. And, yes, I realize I'm including Resurrection in that statement, if only to say the CG in that film is at least used properly. Alien 3's CG was horrible when it was released.
Anyway, back to work.
plagiarize
Banned
i'd argue that what we got in theatres was the producers cut. the extended cut was done by the editor that had worked closely with Fincher after the first shooting session had ended. they cut what they'd shot together to figure out what he needed to go back and shoot to finish the movie. that editor made his best guess as to what Fincher may have wanted based on those editing sessions.spookyfish said:
i don't know how much credit i want to give Hill and Giller for that awesome extended cut. they were involved in the final set of reshoots after Fincher had quit in disgust at how he was being treated. they wrote the movie, but we can see what their writing was like without Fincher and Pickett's influence in things like the reshot scene where they find the crashed spaceship. they were around when that theatrical cut was put together.
i don't know if they were on the studio's side or not in the fights with Fincher, but it did sound like Fincher had basically no one siding with him when he was fighting to keep the section where the alien is captured and set free. if the producers HAD been on his side, we'd probably have had him stay on board until it was finished, and have had a better Alien 3 released at cinemas. probably a better version than the extended cut on the quadrilogy box set.
this is from imdb so it's not necessarily true... if it is true though it makes it clear that the producers weren't on Fincher's side.
imdb trivia page said:
Alien 3 has hardly any CG at all in it's theatrical cut. people constantly bitch about the CG Alien in 3, and there isn't one outside of the extended cut. it's a rod puppet or a man in a suit. they used CG to add the cracking effect on it at the end... but the Alien is always a guy in a costume or a rod puppet composited into the shot.
unfortunately the CG budget for the extended cut of Alien 3 wasn't huge, and as such the shots they had to add have some pretty low budget CG... it's still better to have that version though imho.
Bluemercury
Member
FOX is great at pissing directors, but this takes the cake for the worst planned movie ever. They had to change the damn script while shooting already started.....
