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[SOLDIER]

Seems other outlets are taking more notice of this bullshit: http://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15190250/mass-effect-andromeda-patches-animation-early-access

It's the worst when it comes to lengthy games like ME. Besides telling people "Hey, go start over this 70+ hour RPG epic", I'm really curious if it's even possible to erase things like "My face is tired" from memory.

If for example Persona 5 (yes, that's still getting mentioned, cry more) went back and redid the pronounciation of Sakamoto, would you be able to tune out how they originally said it? Glitches and optimization are one thing, no one's going to remember Breath of the Wild's 1.0 framerate for example. But artistic decisions like these, however misguided, might not ever be patched out of your subconscious.

 

[viewtiful_dru]

Consumers accept the practice, vote with your dollars, etc

 

[Neonsands]

I don't get the complaint. Quality of life changes have been made to games for years now.

Witcher 3 was an amazing game with quite a few bugs at launch. Their extensive patch notes shouldn't be looked at as a negative thing, but rather them trying to make things better. I wouldn't call the game unfinished just because they needed to polish it.

As well, teams not putting out patches when they can for little annoyances could be seen as negative for the customer just the same as what you're saying. For instance, Mass Effect 2 (among many games) had spelling errors in a few blocks of text here and there. The one I still remember and always noticed was a blurb about Miranda and her description. Instead of "soldier", it was spelled "solider". It always stuck out to me, but it's not like I felt slighted because of this. I actually thought it was funny.

How easy is that to fix? And yet BioWare never got around to fixing it. Couldn't that be seen as a slap in the face to customers just the same as your complaints here?

Hell, if we looked at MMOs and other multiplayer games that are always buggy upon release (or upon patch), shouldn't those be the ones under the microscope? That's been a thing for years. It's not necessarily a problem that just started now.

So, is complaining about a few iffy translations really the best front to fight now? I mean, as long as they weren't just taking the sentences and putting them through google translate, I'm fine with them. They still make sense and are correct grammar, even if they're a little archaic in their writing.

 

[semiconscious]

So do people literally stop reading after the words "Persona 5"?

I explained the reasons why I included it, and also made a point to say that it wasn't as bad as the other bad examples.

But it can still fall victim to the "Hey, thanks for our fans for bringing up this thing, look foward to patches!" response a week from now.

you also said 'etc'. when there is no 'etc'. the only 2 conceivable 'issues' with the game are the ones you mentioned. there aren't any others ...

 

[AngelOFDeath]

I would much rather have a game delayed then we get some half-baked nonsense. But this is the way going forward it seems, here's the basics and anything extra is DLC. However this extra is more likely the core of the game that makes it worth it, and should definitely had been included from the get-go.

 

[Machinehead]

I just see it as more ammo to convince people to stop preordering.

"oh, the game's not done yet? I'll come back when it's fixed and over half off"

Yeah.. Add DLC, and I'm not even mad waiting a year or two to buy a more complete, more polished and cheaper game.

 

[score01]

Its the next evolutionary step after day 1 patches. Now that we are used to those, the pubs are starting to stretch things out further. The day 1 patch is now slowly moving to a day 30 patch.

 

[ikarinokami]

persona 5 being mentioned is silly and undermines a excellent argument with a terrible example.


I personally prefer more accurate even if awkward sentence construction, there are other who prefer a natural and less literal translation, there is no correct way.

second imposing your own cultural belief regarding streaming is arrogant. Japanese developers feel strongly about people being spoiled so they don't allow streaming. that's not an example of being unfinished, that design choice they chose to make. this is like saying that divinity original sin is unfinished because they choose to go turned based instead of RTWP, or that the original dragon age was unfinished because it chose not to have a voiced protagonist. conflating what you think is a bad idea with notion of unfinished undermines the point your trying to make, and invalidates much of your argument.

 

[Cleve]

Persona 5 is pretty polished. There's a few minor localization issues, but it doesn't belong on this list.

People want to talk about "back in the day" as if it was some magic time where games were bug free and well translated. Almost every old JRPG suffered from awful localisations with mangled text, grammatical errors, or shitty meme jokes. They were almost exclusively translated by non-native speakers, an amateur team, or Vic Ireland. I'll take P5's minor issues over any of those in a heartbeat.

 

[HYDE]

I mean, is it really? You mentioned 5 games out of literally thousands that are released every year.

I mean, I get the frustration, but, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as you're making it out to be.

Doesn't Halo: Master Chief Collection fall under this curse?

 

[Cranster]

Doesn't Halo: Master Chief Collection fall under this curse?

Yes it does and it's a great example of it as it hurt the Halo brand.

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Doesn't Halo: Master Chief Collection fall under this curse?

I'm not apologizing for the product apparently being busted, but is it really incomplete and not merely busted? I'm aware some parts weren't included on the initial version since there wasn't room on the disc (supposedly) for, say, multiplayer, but this is at least more excusable than things like NMS.

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

At least with Persona, waiting for a patch (if they announce one) doesn't feel like too much of a stretch. Each Persona game gets a definitive and beefed up rerelease later anyway. Atlus has conditioned us fans.

Here's my reply to this thread. I'll finish it later.

Lol.

 

[Bloodporne]

I agree with you 100% on SF5, OP. I think the idea of paying full price for a game that may or may not be complete, and actually worth $60, in a year or more is a complete fucking joke.

Sorry, I want to play the game I paid for right the fuck now because they had no problem taking my money right now. I'm not paying for promises and refuse to buy any game handled in this fashion, don't care how cool it'll be further down the line.

 

[jonjonaug]

Have you played the game yourself? Im several hours in and theres nothing wrong with the localization.


Cherry picking quotes out of context doesnt mean the localization is busted.

I'm encountering at least one "wtf" line every 5-10 minutes. It isn't as bad as Berseria's stunningly awful at times English, but it's still pretty bad.

 

[black070]

Not really a big deal, just wait on buying games - has the same effect as a later release date, except you get the game cheaper.

 

[Intel_89]

Splatoon kinda falls in this category but the core game was still pretty tight and the extra content was completely free so it gets a free pass from me.

 

[jonjonaug]

Like, bad localizations to successful games are nothing new. Both Danganronpa games are bad, Persona 5 is bad, Berseria was bad (I've only played Berseria but I've heard other Tales games are bad too), the Psycho-Pass game was bad...

Lots and lots of video games have poor localization jobs that I enjoyed. I really wish "providing an accurate and well edited translation" was higher on the list of priorities of companies, but that isn't something I expect to change any time soon. Persona 5's problems are just particularly disappointing because Atlus usually does a much better job.

 

[LAA]

Was FFXV considered unpolished/unfinished?
I can almost understand unfinished as the story didn't feel fleshed out, but there's no solid intentions of adding that and it's claimed nothing significant was cut, (though I do wish more story and exploitable cities were added), But I don't recall any major issues with FFXV and played it solid from launch until I beat it.

 

[Fj0823]

Was FFXV considered unpolished/unfinished?
I can almost understand unfinished as the story didn't feel fleshed out, but there's no solid intentions of adding that and it's claimed nothing significant was cut, (though I do wish more story and exploitable cities were added), But I don't recall any major issues with FFXV and played it solid from launch until I beat it.

The story was rushed as fuck.
Patches are adding new routes with new playable characters to fill some blanks in the plots for free

But the main story is the same

 

[AtomicShroom]

Splatoon kinda falls in this category but the core game was still pretty tight and the extra content was completely free so it gets a free pass from me.

See that's the big difference here. The base game felt complete. Extra content is fine as long as it doesn't change what you've already played of a game to any significant degree.

I think what really angers people is when they know that what they're currently playing through is going to be significantly improved/fixed/added to over time. I mean what's the point of playing a game when you know that you're playing a broken and incomplete version of something that's going to be much better if you just wait a few months?

 

[tearsintherain]

I don't think FF15 and P5 belong in this category. There may be things you don't like but the games are generally finished. Adding extra content after launch isn't something special or new, every game does that. Outside of neogaf I don't really know anyone who has an issue with the P5 english translations/VA.

I'd say the issue is games that release knowing that something fundamental is wrong. No Man's Sky, Assassins Creed Unity, Mass Effect Andromeda, Batman Arkham Knight on PC, etc.

And I think the market place has an appropriate response. Almost always in these cases, FUTURE releases in the series are punished. After Unity, Assassins Creed Syndicate released, was a decent game, but did not sell anywhere near previous iterations of the series. They held off on releasing a new game in 2016, and have to be thinking hard about what they can do for the next game set in Egypt.

Bioware/EA may have not done a great job on Andromeda, and guess what: the next Bioware game, whatever it is, is going to suffer the consequences. Its unfair, but brand loyalty has its positives (Rockstar, Blizzard) and negatives (Funcom, Ubisoft, now Bioware) as well.

 

[dancegrenade]

OP killed any possible discussion about this by including P5 lmao

Yee I just stopped reading right after that.

 

[Baleoce]

And then referring to it as a communal effort, or a "journey".

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I like to look at this issue as a glass half full instead of empty. Plenty of games in the good old days shipped as a broken mess and were NEVER fixed. Yeah sure some games get rushed out the door to meet a deadline and therefore needs fixing. The same can be said for many computer software. At least some developers continue to work on fixing the issues and add to the game (Driveclub). In other cases they continue to update an already stellar product (Horizon ZD).

 

[Yukinari]

Splatoon kinda falls in this category but the core game was still pretty tight and the extra content was completely free so it gets a free pass from me.

It was absolutely painful to play the same 5 maps over and over and to not have more modes.

It took a long time for Splatoon to finally have a decent amount of content. Content that was already finished.

 

[m_dorian]

Do not preorder.
Avoid buying at launch.
Wait for reviews, impressions from outlets or people you trust.
Send a message.

If the game turns out to be bad/unpolished or having issues you will save your money.
If the game turns out fine you can always jump to it and feel good about it.

 

[Garlador]

Just a friendly reminder that Horizon looks and plays like a dream and the developers polished it to a mirror shine.

Perhaps because of the "fix it later" attitudes that I appreciate Horizon as much as I do.

 

[B.K.]

I hate how these last two generations have given developers the ability to ship unfinished games and patch them later. I love Final Fantasy, but I haven't even bought XV yet because I'm waiting on them to finish it. I'm not going to spend $60 of my hard earned money on a half finished game. Consoles being able to connect to the internet and the ability to patch games are the worst things to ever happen to gaming.

 

[Spartancarver]

This just makes me appreciate Horizon even more. Apart from being a drop dead gorgeous RPG with an impeccable story and phenomenal gameplay, the state it shipped in was *pristine*. And even then GG has been on point with their patches addressing all these minor issues that 99% of players don't even encounter.

Makes ME:A look even more laughable in comparison. That "patch roadmap" is a convenient way to let people know when the game is actually complete. Should be around $15 by then.

 

[Symbiotx]

As I was saying in the other thread about about Mass Effect being "early access", I think there's a difference between releasing an unfinished/broken game, and making fixes for it later.

A game should be released in the most polished state possible, but we shouldn't attack companies a second time as they're releasing fixes for the faults of their game.

Bioware made the roadmap to respond to the game's faults to say, "we hear you, and we're going to be improving it". But, for some reason, people are jumping from that to "OMG see, they put out an unfinished game and now telling us when it'll finally be complete lol". Just stop. They're fixing the problems and that's a good thing. They got shit on for releasing the game in the state that they did, no need to shit on them again for making it better.

 

[Prince of Space]

I hate how these last two generations have given developers the ability to ship unfinished games and patch them later. I love Final Fantasy, but I haven't even bought XV yet because I'm waiting on them to finish it. I'm not going to spend $60 of my hard earned money on a half finished game. Consoles being able to connect to the internet and the ability to patch games are the worst things to ever happen to gaming.

Good news, the finished version of Final Fantasy XV is already available for purchase.

 

[Lingitiz]

Are there any examples of games that launched kind of busted and bad, and then after a bunch of patches and DLC turned out to be really awesome? Trying to think of some.

Just a friendly reminder that Horizon looks and plays like a dream and the developers polished it to a mirror shine.

Perhaps because of the "fix it later" attitudes that I appreciate Horizon as much as I do.

Guerilla definitely has their shit locked down.

 

[BigEmil]

Consumers accept the practice, vote with your dollars, etc

.

 

[SweetJohnnyCage]

NMS was pretty egregious in terms of being unfinished and we were severely misled on what was possible in the game (online not actually existing at all).

FFXV, though? It was finished and playable, even without the Day 1 patch. The team wanting to go back and fix chapter 13 was their own decision, but they didn't have to do it at all. We were also told about post-launch content well before release. Them "fixing" chapter 13 was just a bonus because a lot of people didn't like it. Granted, when they said they were fixing it, I decided to put it down and play something else, but now that it's out, I'll go back to it soon.

P5 is also a horrible example. The localization isn't THAT bad, nowhere near as bad as old Final Fantasy games. It's not like you're getting completely lost in the story because it's translated terribly.

In the end, though, I agree with you and always will. I want games to be playable and as close to finished as possible. I don't mind when games get delayed, because I just think that it's probably not up to snuff if it's getting delayed. Most of the time it works out for the better. Something like Mass Effect, however, is likely the result of EA corporate giving Bioware a release date and forcing them to stick to it instead of allowing delays. We're a couple weeks after launch and they're adding in major content that you couldn't make in 2 weeks. This stuff was planned, and that's bullshit.

Are there any examples of games that launched kind of busted and bad, and then after a bunch of patches and DLC turned out to be really awesome? Trying to think of some.

The only one coming to my mind right now is Bloodborne's hilarious load times. The game was still 100% awesome, but the load times were ridiculous and frustrating.

 

[EatinOlives]

It's becoming increasingly more obvious that the best course of action is not to buy games at launch. Which is hilarious considering how much stock the industry puts into launch-day figures. They want the money now but don't want to hold up their end of the bargain. It's only after they have early adopter money that the apologies and patch road maps start to get trotted out.

 

[Steiner_Zi]

I hate how these last two generations have given developers the ability to ship unfinished games and patch them later. I love Final Fantasy, but I haven't even bought XV yet because I'm waiting on them to finish it. I'm not going to spend $60 of my hard earned money on a half finished game. Consoles being able to connect to the internet and the ability to patch games are the worst things to ever happen to gaming.

What are you talking about? Ff15 is already finished and does not belong in the same list as No Man's Sky or Mass Effext. There is so much misinformation from people who haven't played the game...

 

[patapuf]

I'm all for calling out broken launches as unacceptable. However, the least a dev can do is fix their game if the launch i bad. In fact, continuous post launch support should be normal regardless of release state.

Are there any examples of games that launched kind of busted and bad, and then after a bunch of patches and DLC turned out to be really awesome? Trying to think of some.

Counter Strike Global offensive

The witcher 1

Battlefield 3

Pretty much the whole Total war series

ect.

 

[family_guy]

My problem is how you can have stuff like how the humans look in Andromeda and think that actually looked good enough to ship. Did no one have the balls to call out the artists in meetings? It's not like they were month from shipping and realized it was bad. You could see that from way early on.

 

[Unknown?]

Poor translation (including obvious grammar mistakes) and some basic localization issues (missing subtitles in some scenes?).

There are a few instances that are poor but overall it is not a poor translation at all.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Games are harder and more expensive to make than ever, while generally making the same amount of profit. Why are you surprised.

And only a fraction of a fraction of game releases fall under this "trend" you specify. 5 or 6 games a year is not a trend.

What are you talking about? Ff15 is already finished and does not belong in the same list as No Man's Sky or Mass Effext. There is so much misinformation from people who haven't played the game...

Right? The full game is there, playable from start to finish with all features advertised. People only think it's unfinished because the story changed and some content was cut. Which is the case for every game ever released. The only difference here is that FFXV publicized it's many different versions.

 

[Old Gimlet Eyes]

I know it's been said but no launch purchases, just about ever. Waiting 6+ months will get you a better and cheaper game. There just is no reason to me to buy at launch anymore.

 

[RedAssedApe]

Persona 5 from what I've played should not be in the op

 

[Skux]

11 years in the making and they still released FFXV in an unfinished state.

I wouldn't say it's a trend but it's certainly very disappointing and embarrassing for developers who do this, and goes against the grain of consumer expectations.

Wait for reviews. More importantly, wait for consumer opinions on sites like GAF (reviewers have a dreadful tendency to ignore launch day and performance issues). Stop preordering. Give your money to games like Horizon which offer a complete, polished experience on launch without any publisher bullshit like pay-to-win micro transactions.

 

[Akai__]

I'd like to add Halo 5 to this list, because that "AWESOME POST LAUNCH SUPPORT" is really just stuff that was missing on launch and even was in previous Halo games.

With 343i at the helm of the Halo franchise, it's been nothing but disapointment and MS doesn't really care, because microtransactions are more important than certain other things.

 

[Daffy Duck]

Had to put up with this unfinished game business for the last two years with the Call of Duty series and it royally pisses me off! They push all this crap about a new three year dev cycle and still can't ship a complete game, just what the fuck is going on over there!

Even more so when you end up getting microtransactions (supply drops) and then weapons before key features (leaderboards etc) are in the game.

It's a joke, and Activision should be hauled over hot coals and made to answer for that bollocks.

 

[Aselith]

And now this might happen with Persona 5. The circumstances may not be as shitty: the translation isn't bad, the streaming situation can easily be reversed, etc. But it didn't have to happen. It was the one game I'm certain lots of people were hoping would release issue-free. My launch experience has been soured as a result, and if Atlus is going to come up with their own "patches roadmap" to polish the localization, I might just put the game down then and there. It's extremely rare for me to go back and replay a game 30+ hours, and Persona games tend to go towards the hundreds. What's the point playing a product that I know is officially "inferior", especially when I can still put time toward the games that came out bullshit-free? Imagine if Nintendo pulled this shit with Zelda or any of their other releases.

I mean the game isn't perfect but it's hardly a mess. Some sentences are just a little oddly worded are you really going to let that keep you from one of the best games of the year? This is not an unpolished or unfinished game and the streaming thing is a meta decision that has nothing to do with the actual game.

Like what does streaming even have to do with the game?

 

[GLAMr]

The first time I encountered this issue was Half Life 2. I remember people losing their shit over how it shipped unfinished with a patch ready to go on day 1.

 

[rawd]

With the amount of backlog I have these days I don't mind it. I usually purchase a game almost a year later now with all the bug fixes and cheaper price to boot.

Current game being played: Crysis 3 for PS3

 

[VincentMatts]

Unless is a game franchise i love (Halo, Battlefield), i dont touch games at launch anymore.