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[Harmen]

I played vanilla FFXV and had a blast. That version reviewed well too. There were, however, a lot of problems that prevent it form being an even better game. Kudos that they are addressing those, but I thought the base game was of absolutely acceptable quality.

Unless is a game franchise i love (Halo, Battlefield), i dont touch games at launch anymore.

Ironically two of the most broken launches this gen bore the names you mentioned (Master Chief Collection on XbO and BF4 on PS4). That said, I don't think they will repeat those mistakes again.

 

[Thud]

There are better examples than Persona 5 imo.

I would say Xenoblade Chronicles X. It's a great game but there's a large patch to reduce load times. Sound mixing is really poor. The final chapter is unpolished and most of the plot is ramped in it. Game feels rushed and unfinished.

Breath of the Wild had a few performance issues as well. The difference is noticeable, especially on switch. It also has a DLC roadmap, however that's obviously to expand on the game and not fix it because it's unfinished.

Still it's on a different scale than something like No Man's Sky, Mass Effect Andromeda or Final Fantasy XV. Healthy criticism is always helpful.

 

[VincentMatts]

I played vanilla FFXV and had a blast. That version reviewed well too. There were, however, a lot of problems that prevent it form being an even better game. Kudos that they are addressing those, but I thought the base game was of absolutely acceptable quality.



Ironically two of the most broken launches this gen bore the names you mentioned (Master Chief Collection on XbO and BF4 on PS4). That said, I don't think they will repeat those mistakes again.

lol i know. BF in general has been very smooth since BF4 launched. 343, im still very skeptical about. But yeah, i dont think they would repeat those mistakes, for their sake.

 

[TheEndOfItAll]

Persona 5 doesn't fit into this, as pretty much every one of the Persona games has odd localization issues. You can certainly criticize Atlus for that, but you misinterpret that the game was unfinished. They probably feel the product is perfectly acceptable, and the no-stream policy is just that -- policy.

I agree with you on the rest, though. It is a trend that must not continue, and will not continue for much longer. These huge games that have been touted and fell apart because they were released because of deadlines with huge missing pieces will not last because eventually, the companies putting them out will simply lose sales and be forced to do things the right way. It's attrition.

 

[Tortahegeszto]

Sadly this is not at all a new thing. Just look at any Bethesda game or the Witcher series.
With the Witcher 3 I had bosses stuck in T poses and multiple quests stuck until I reload a save or even had to rebuild the game a few times via Gog Galaxy half a year after launch.
Now the GOTY version is much better. It's a shame I had to experience those on my first play through.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

This is why I no longer purchase 95% of AAA games until they are out for a while and are $20-$30. A great example is DRIVECLUB. Got it and the season pass for $20 and love every damn moment of it. The launch was a nightmare as many remember.

 

[TheEndOfItAll]

I played vanilla FFXV and had a blast. That version reviewed well too. There were, however, a lot of problems that prevent it form being an even better game. Kudos that they are addressing those, but I thought the base game was of absolutely acceptable quality.

I did, too, but it feels like the push to heavily patch the game afterwards is an admittance by Tabata that the game was most definitely incomplete and this is a nice way to keep the fans interested.

 

[TwiztidElf]

Anybody who bought Mass Affect Andromeda deserve what they got.
<BOOM>

 

[raginrapids]

Early patches are part of the reason I never buy new games. Mainly its economic, but I like waiting for these things to be worked out before I play.

 

[Deepwater]

I'd rather unfinished games that get added content later through patches, rather than 15 years ago when games were released in a buggy or unplayable state and there was no recourse.

 

[etrain911]

Has Atlus mentioned anything about a patch? I think the localization is fine, a little stilted, but certainly not bad enough to warrant a patch. The practice in general is egregious and after getting burned by FFXV and NMS, I no longer support any games that release shoddy and unfinished.

 

[The Greek Freak]

Putting a few localization issues from P5 on par with the trash fires of NMS and Mass effect?

C'mon son.

 

[Carlius]

I mean, is it really? You mentioned 5 games out of literally thousands that are released every year.

I mean, I get the frustration, but, I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as you're making it out to be.

hes not lying though. Every trend starts out small, then they all follow. The division is another game that comes to mind. There are plenty of examples, he just named a few. Again, every trend starts out small.

 

[WorldHero]

I got burned so many times this gen that I stopped pre-ordering games completely.

Worst Offenders:
-Driveclub
-MGS V (no patch, just unfinished!)
-Halo MCC

 

[Raw64life]

It definitely sucks, and I'm voting with my wallet against it. Played and enjoyed all 3 Mass Effects and bought about 8 or 9 Street Fighter games in my lifetime. Hard pass on SFV and ME:A because of the way they've been handled.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

That shitty issue is a result of shitty consumer pratices.

Nowadays you just need a good propaganda and everyone pre-orders the hell out of it.

And then I ask: why that pre-order thirst? Don't tell me it's because the "extras" such as a skin here or a multiplayer icon there...

 

[watershed]

I'm personally very conscious of not buying games that might ship in an "unfinished" state. I would rather not buy at all or wait than support the practice of publishers knowingly shipping unfinished/unpolished/broken/jank filled games.

 

[a harpy]

Since people are harping on Persona 5 being on the list and many people, myself included, heavily disagree with its place there, let's add some more games to the list that do deserve it.

AC: Unity
Destiny 1
Battlefield 4
Final Fantasy XIV (I think Square Enix made good on this, though... the re-release was sincere in both emotions and effort)
Diablo 3
The Master Chief Collection
Dishonored 2 PC
Arkham Knight PC (was that ever fixed?)
Driveclub
Silent Hill HD Collection (never completely fixed, still garbage) and also ZOE HD
For Honor has news articles about people quitting if it isn't fixed
The Division


The list isn't huge, but the games certainly are. It features devs/publishers including Blizzard, Ubisoft, Bungie, Activision, Microsoft, Square Enix, Bethesda, Sony, EA, and Konami... Including OP, we can add Capcom and Bioware. Those are (or were) some of the hottest all-stars of game publishing/development. Even if you don't like their games or their companies, you can't deny that all of those companies listed are huge. Some others have mentioned in this thread that the list isn't very large, but it certainly feels large when players are being burned by companies that previously have produced their GOATs.

I feel like budgets, deadlines, and expectations are going to explode one day. Sometimes it's hard to believe we actually have multiple companies playing round-robin with game development.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Persona 5 isn't even close to being broken. If the most broken thing about a game is a few instances of English subtitles not appearing when they should to communicate background/environmental announcements with the Japanese DLC installed, then that's a pretty well executed game.

 

[DualX]

Arkham Knight PC (was that ever fixed?)

Yup, and it runs beautifully now.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

I realize this is a trend in console gaming now, but this is more just that the downsides of PC gaming come along with the upsides of PC gaming as consoles turn into PCs.

Like the good end of this is you can get amazing service updates that make a great game even better. The downside is that you can also ship a largely broken or very troubled product and patch your way to launch quality.

If your talking games as a service, it's not that equal&#8203; of a comparison. Most service based games on PC are either free or cheap compared to $60 new releases, so there's little risk to the end user.

If you're talking early access games, that's a crap comparison. Early Access titles on Steam are marked as such, are almost always $30 or under, and you have Steam refunds as a safety net.

Either way, Consoles are not getting all the upsides that come with these titles.

 

[AwShucks]

As soon as you said Persona 5 I considered your post a joke.

 

[Petrae]

Consumers have spoken, via their wallets: "We're fine with this."

They know that games are gonna ship with multi-GB Day One patches and perhaps hours of waiting before they get to play, and they generally don't care that much. There's a loud minority that does care, and they complain here and elsewhere about it, but it's too late for them. Games are going to continue to ship with huge patches and their share of problems, and the practice of downloading these patches isn't ever going to end. You're either going to learn to accept patching and updates in order to keep playing modern console video games, you're going to find different forms of gaming to partake in (retro/non-connected consoles, for example), or you're going to quit gaming altogether.

Consumers accepted patches. Consumers accepted DLC. Consumers accepted preorder culture. Consumers accepted paying to play console games online. Like it or not, these are console gaming standards now-- and all the complaining in the world won't change a goddamned thing.

 

[topplehat]

With sales/pricecuts soon after launches and this, it's hard to buy a game day one.

 

[LAM09]

Something I can't stand. Delay a game, if it isn't up to scratch. One of the reasons I don't buy many games day 1.

 

[hatchx]

Atleast in the case of EA and Mass Effect Andromeda and NMS, they paid the price. Bad PR. Backlash. I bet it hurt sales of ME:A immensely and perhaps rather than saving/continueing a popular franchise, maybe killed it off forever. SFV we all know how that disaster turned out. Again, perhaps killing a franchise vs saving it. I think FF15 got a free pass but it's not as bad and gamers had to wait like 8 years.

I think any smart publisher will notice this and avoid shipping unfinished games at all cost.

 

[jaybe00]

I think most of the time quality and polish is being rewarded in the marketplace by consumers and the incomplete and unpolished is being punished. Companies are bound to take notice when the pocketbook is hurt. SF5 seems to have been a disaster sales wise and I'm sure ME:A will probably sell half of what it's potential could have been. MCC's state had an impact on its sales and Halo 5's. NMS's marketing probably fooled a few on console but at least Steam's generous refund policy wiped away a ton of potential sales. The consumer is truly more informed than ever, and it will make good business sense going forward to release fewer, more complete and quality games over time... here's hoping any way.

 

[Sanctuary]

Not really sure what you expected. A lot of people saw this coming from miles away once DLC was introduced and then either embraced with open arms, or simply shrugged at. Publishers are only in this for the money, and as long as sales don't drop, they will continue doing less (or rather allowing less time) to get their product out as quickly as they can. If that means cutting all content that used to come standard, and then selling it back as a "premium bonus", or a mostly, but not quite finished game because we "live in a digital age" to be patched later, so be it.

 

[Kieli]

Wow at how many people Ctrl + F 'persona 5' and then didn't read anything else so they could lose their shit. He didn't say it was unfinished. He outlined why he's including it.

It has a big glaring problem that could put a lot of people off of buying/playing it right now until the issue is possibly corrected later down the line. It goes on the list.

I agree with Nirolak: the downsides of PC gaming have tagged along with the upsides too. That doesn't make it okay, but it does mean that we as consumers have to find ways of pressuring companies to start giving a shit about their product launches. Easiest way is to not preorder BUT ALSO to be vocal about why we aren't preordering instead of them just scratching their heads and taking less risks because they don't know why we won't preorder.

Persona 5 invalidates his entire argument. HYPERBOLE.

But seriously, not quite sure why he included that. His arguments that it's an unfinished game is because... they don't let you stream it and there are some awkwardly translated lines.

Wot?

 

[RoninChaos]

It's why I haven't Day oned a game in a long time. I've got plently of stuff to play or watch. Can happily wait and get the not so fucked version at a cheaper price.

That's pretty much where I'm at. Couple that with the fact that shit will be cheaper down the line AND fixed... why bother buying day one anymore? Preorder costumes or whatever the fuck aren't enough of an incentive to pay 60 to beta test a game.

 

[Spman2099]

What's wrong/unpolished with Persona 5?

Nothing even close to major. Persona 5 was an extremely silly game to mention alongside the others.

I played vanilla FFXV and had a blast. That version reviewed well too. There were, however, a lot of problems that prevent it form being an even better game. Kudos that they are addressing those, but I thought the base game was of absolutely acceptable quality.

I really enjoyed FFXV, but some stuff was clearly missing. The story was, at times, completely incomprehensible. You can't tell me that

Spoiler

Prompto

twist was set up appropriately, and existed as it was intended to. There are a ton of those weird moments throughout the game that left me wanting more (and wishing they had taken another six months to polish things up).

I have a hard time not seeing it as incomplete.

 

[Vital Tundra]

It does piss me off with regards to FF15. The game is so obviously unfinished and patches over a long period of time don't excuse that, especially when the likelyhood that people will replay when the game is complete is small.