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Shirobako |OT| I've come to bury moe anime, not to praise it (dir. of Blood-C, GuP)

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Guess Who

Banned
Watched the first episode on a whim based on some reactions here. Not something I'd normally watch but I was quite pleasantly surprised! That cut between the super-bubbly high school flashback and the 2-years-later shot of Aoi sitting alone in her car spaced out and tired hooked me, and the rest of the episode delivered on showing the inner workings of an anime studio in a crunch setting. Will probably keep watching.
 

Jex

Member
Why not have it done and then release it according to the schedule?

It's not like they audition with a pilot episode like sitcoms and dont know if someone will buy a season of it. I can understand the long running weekly's, but I dont see why they can't hold off a couple of months while they complete a 1-cour and then air it if there's going to be multiple recap eps and QUALITY moments due to production issues.

Is there an article about the process that explains this somewhere? I tried googling before I asked here
Shows are generally a promotion of some kind, whether it's to promote a manga or some toys to kids. They run in a set slot for a set period of time. It's up to director and staff to get the show ready to air in a timely manner. Some shows are nearly completed before they begin to air, some are complete disasters due to problems in production that spiral out of controll.
 
Episode 3:
This was yet another fantastic and very well crafted episode. The show is really going all out with just about every scene, and it uses the music very effectively to build up the tension as the episode is approaching the climax. There are also a lot of nice directorial touches, and some very good cuts from one scene to another (I especially loved the shift from the kid needing to pee to Yamada saying "I can't hold it in"). Just about every scene in this episode is dense enough that I feel like I can only just scratch the surface of it on my first viewing.

Unlike the first two episodes which balanced out the highs and lows of the process somewhat, this episode was almost all stress and crunch time. We're already into all nighters and staff sleeping at the office and other such things. There are a lot of places where things nearly fall completely off the rails, but somehow they manage to survive. And that flaky Kisa has probably surpassed Taro for the biggest douche in the show category. Aoi nearly got completely engulfed by what was going on in this episode, but she managed to make it through thanks to the help of the other people around her, and in the end the changed version wound up being for the better.

Once again we're seeing various little touches of the technical aspects of the process, too. For example, we have the scene with Yamada saying the line out loud with a stop watch in hand (versus the other guy who is just saying the lines in his head), and we're seeing Aoi manage all the different places that various cuts of animation are at the moment as they prepare to get everything off and ready, as well as seeing just how much difference drawing one new line could make on the way a character looks. It's a pretty enlightening process.

There's still plenty left to come, but right now this show is, at least for me, the Anime of the Year frontrunner by a mile.
 

duckroll

Member
Episode 3

Damn, this episode was intense. Really satisfying conclusion to the opening story arc. It's a lot like the Paranoia Agent episode, but with more realistic obstacles and tension. The scene where the studio president is talking with the coloring studio president is great, you really get the sense that it's a small industry where people who have known each other for a long time will go the extra mile just to help get stuff done in time to avoid a massive fuck up. The main character having a mini break down really highlights how stressful the production assistant job is in the anime industry. The way it's directed is obviously dramatized, but the pressure is no joke. There was an incident a few years back where a production assistant killed himself after going nuts over the stress and overwork. >_<
 

PK Gaming

Member
Shirobako 3

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Excellent episode. Shirobako excels at showcasing resilience in the face of adversity and general teamwork. I love how the show continually manages to keep me engaged despite going over many key concepts in animation. It goes over said concepts at an even pace, but it respects the audience by not wasting time by reiterating points we already know. (Though that doesn't mean I don't pause and hit wikipedia, haha)

Shirobako seems like an extremely competent anime so far. I sincerely hope they can keep this up.
 

Branduil

Member
Shirobako 3

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Aoi is the definition of suffering moe.

Another great episode. I love how it shows all the different individual screw-ups that can delay a production, like the guy who sleeps too late, and the ftp server crashing. Other nice touches were the key animator being so locked in that she didn't notice anything around her, and Goth Loli-sama making one small correction for her animation check.
 

TheRancor

Member
Episode 3

That was quite hectic, really highlights the stress and the numerous problems that could potentially throw a production into complete disarray. While still informing the viewer about the production process from the small details and staff roles. How they showed different characters dealing with crunch time was well done. The older guys knowing each other gives a sense of how people get around in the overlapping anime industry. It continues to have effective music direction and the show still looks slick. Good stuff.
 

sonicmj1

Member
Episode 3

Another excellent episode. I could really feel the hectic pressure that Aoi was under to get this episode out the door, not just in the increasingly-frazzled progression of her expressions, but in the rapid cutting as she ran back and forth. Through her haste and confusion, you can also see the different ways that everyone else in the office works. Some people are fast and talented, some are incredibly diligent, some procrastinate, some relax, some worry constantly. Everyone is different, and Aoi has to get them all operating on something close enough to the same schedule that the episode can get finished.

It seems like next episode will reunite the high school anime club. Looking forward to it.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's funny because the second cut is exactly how I imagined it once they started describing the changes.

Magical girls suffering is now standard thanks to Meduka.
 
I am really surprised I like this anime as much as I have. I watch a lot of anime, but the picture in the OP is the kind of stuff that really puts me off (I guess that's "moe"-style??)

But I was in a bad place after Space Dandy ended. And I needed a fix. So I checked out Shirobako. And yea, I really like premise and subject matter. It feels really fresh and interesting.
 

Kyuur

Member
This show is god damn fantastic and is likely to follow Nozaki as the best of the season for me. I get serious Genshiken vibes from the general feel of the show (which is a great).
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
I get serious Genshiken vibes from the general feel of the show (which is a great).

Heh, I'm sure glad I'm not getting those same vibes.

The girls in this show are too cute looking. Not realistic enough.

Dropped.

This might be a joke, but that's actually something I thought about during episode 3. The appearance of the guys are somewhat grounded in a way, while I feel like all of the girls are designed to be really pretty? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe that's how it is in the anime industry, heh.
 

Kyuur

Member
The girls in this show are too cute looking. Not realistic enough.

Dropped.

My fiancee brought this up while we were watching. The photo comparison above is pretty spot on though.

I also think the General Manager is a pretty spot-on business woman, not really cute in the same way as the other women in the show.

Not enough to drop though P:

Heh, I'm sure glad I'm not getting those same vibes.

Not a fan? :(
 

FluxWaveZ

Member
Not a fan? :(

Hm, probably too harsh. It was filled with references I didn't get, but I generally enjoyed it, right until the point it essentially became a love story (felt the same with Kids on the Slope). Haven't bothered with the sequel anime. I understand where you're coming from with the general feeling, though I mostly felt it in regards to episode 1, with their dreams to get in the industry starting with their club.

...Damn, hope this doesn't become some love story with that guy the main protag likes racing against.
 

duckroll

Member
This might be a joke, but that's actually something I thought about during episode 3. The appearance of the guys are somewhat grounded in a way, while I feel like all of the girls are designed to be really pretty? I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe that's how it is in the anime industry, heh.

I feel it's more of an age thing than entirely a gender thing. If you look at Taro for example, he's a guy but he's also designed to look handsome and "cool" except in an annoying way. He's definitely not grounded like the older male characters. In general, when it comes to animated designs, I think when designing younger characters who are teens or young adults, there is a desire to lean towards making them attractive because that's the easiest way to showcase youth and also to get people to be more interested in a show.
 

Nafe

Member
Episodes 1-3

When I first saw this show mentioned in the anime threads I thought it was another "cute girls doing cute things" slice of life type show, which is fine by me personally a long as it's entertaining enough, but revolving around them either being in or aspiring to be in the anime industry. Looking at the characters designs in the opening post and even with how the show initially starts carried on this line of thought. After that introduction in the first episode though, this is just another prime example that you shouldn't judge a book by its cover as the saying goes.

The director of the show seems to have worked on another anime original work, that being Girls und Panzer, and so far like that show, Shirobako just seems to be a really well made and directed show with some nice production values that's really entertaining to watch. I agree with a lot of the comments put forth here in the thread that the show somewhat having Miyamori as the main character makes for a natural showing of all the different people and work that goes into making an anime. A better approach as well to some of the information shared as Miyamori and the audience will learn side by side.

Agreed that with so many cast members it has been hard to develop many of them outside of a select few but hopefully in time each person will get their time to shine. Depending on the jobs its not like everyone needs the spotlight either as there is still the concept of supporting characters.

I also like what was brought up where the show seems to show both the ups and downs of the industry. The excitement of getting the show to air and seeing positive responses but also the hard work that can go into it and trying to make deadlines, especially when complications arise. That whole conversation in episode 2 really was nice to see how some staff can care about their work but also came across like some silly conversation you'd find on an internet message board,haha.

It's a nice mix of being an entertaining but also somewhat informative show. It's funny just how meta it can be as well. You have for example the voice actress or seiyuu, Ai Kayano, voicing a character in an anime who is also a voice actress voicing a character for an anime within the anime. This voice actress character is also basically Ai Kayano herself in anime form,haha. I was wondering who some of the different characters were outside of the voice actresses, so thanks for the image being posted on who's supposed to be based off who.

I thought the character designs were somewhat familiar and it made sense once I saw they were involved with other P.A. Works shows such as Hanasaku Iroha and Tari Tari. Obviously not the same but with some similarities. Unlike those shows though this didn't look like a P.A. Works show like I think I've normally seen. Watching Glasslip last season and the visuals made it immediately apparent to me but Shirobako feels like The Eccentric Family in that the visuals didn't look like the usual P.A. Works. That I'm personally familiar with or think of anyway.

I guess I've basically gone on enough that basically at the end I once again think its got some nice direction and productions values so far, with an interesting cast with the little we've seen of each and it's a really entertaining show that I look forward to every week. It's one of my anime of the season and as long as the quality so far keeps up I think it will be in my anime of the year list.
 

Teremap

Banned
Really late to the party here, but holy cow this show is SO GOOD.

Admittedly, the moe-ness of the female character designs (lol @ goth-loli-sama) initially put me off a bit, but I quickly got used to it and have to respect the fact that they actually do highly resemble real women in the industry once you get past the eyes (heh). More importantly, they do a really good job of selling the drama and intense stress of being in an anime production on a tight schedule, and I absolutely adore the attention to detail seen throughout the entire thing. All the programs, all the hardware, all the staff members and the production schedule and all those little things... it's beautiful and totally educational. Love it!

I have to wonder if they can actually keep up this momentum through another 21 episodes. &#12364;&#12435;&#12400;&#12428;, P.A. Works!
 

Vaporak

Member
I think i'm gonna give an episode a try on crunchroll. I'm not enthusiastic about the summary, but I have to at least make an attempt just to support anime having actual adult protagonists.
 

Jarmel

Banned
So earlier I asked if anybody who didn't know anything about how anime comes together, was watching Shirobako. Some people replied and some were obviously being sarcastic. So I just had a notion of explaining some of the key terms that the show uses because I'm not sure how great of a job it is explaining each process/component. This is intended to be very general/introductory and I'm sure some people are going to point out where I'm wrong.

So I guess the anime production process can be covered up in four general areas. There is also pre-production but that's it's own thing altogether. These four areas are animation, coloring, post animation effects, and sound. Animation and sound can be broken down into subcategories. First let's start with animation since that's really the crux of everything.

Storyboards:
This is how the episode/theme will flow or be framed. An animator or director will fill out the above form and the animators will expand or elaborate on the storyboards in order to create the episode. Some directors create really elaborate storyboards like Shingo Natsume for Space Dandy, others might do some scribbles and expect the animators to figure out the rest.

Key Animation/Genga:
Key animation is the main part of an animated work. They're the key frames in an animated sequence. An animated sequence can also be referred to as a cut, and usually each key animator is assigned a certain number of cuts per episode. What most animators do, some exceptions being Mitsuo Iso or Bahi JD, is that they draw certain parts or frames in a cut and someone else animates the rest.

Inbetweens/Douga:
This is 'the rest' that I just referred to, it's seemingly referred to as inbetweens because they're in-between keyframes. This is outsourced to another studio, or Korea at times, as not only is it mind-numbing work but it also requires an insane amount of manpower. If someone is complaining about the animation being jerky or the characters being offmodel, then chances are somebody fucked up with the inbetweens. There are people who check the inbetweens for quality issues but 'shit happens' as the saying goes. There are thousands of inbetweens in an episode.

Animation Director (translated as Animation Supervisor in Shirobako):
They essentially check or correct key frames and possibly send it back to the original animator to fix. They're usually the more experienced of the staff. Changes can be elaborate or very subtle. In some ways, they're responsible for the animation quality of an episode or movie.

Episode Director (translated as Animation Director in Shirobako):
tumblr_m4f5q4rxv51rpsv4x.jpg

Kunihiko Ikuhara (he's more of a series director but he does do individual episodes)
The person responsible for the episode as a whole. They might also assist with fixing animation but their role encompasses much more as they have to check up with stuff like the sound work for example.

Background Art:
Just that. It's what you see in the background. Most animators usually just do the characters and the background artists (although they're animators/artists too) do the background work. This is always outsourced as well.
--
Coloring:
Animators normally don't color their stuff. This most often is left to a different studio that specializes in coloring. What happens is that each color has a certain number, determined by a color design person, and the studio pretty much just fills it in.
--
Post Animation Efffects:
This is not only CGI work but also can include stuff like putting in depth of field in particular shots. This is also usually outsourced although a number of studios such as Ufotable can do large amounts inhouse.
--
Background music/OST:
The soundtrack for an anime.

Sound work:
The sounds you might hear in an anime letting the closing of a door or the sound a sword a might make. A notable example of good sound work would be Flowers of Evil.

Voice Acting:
What comes out of a character's mouth. Also the worst part of anime fandom.

I expect Shirobako to go over the VA work and post production stuff later (since they have girls dedicated to each). Honestly, there are much better sources of info than this post such as the Little Witch Academia documentary or a multitude of websites covering all of this in much more detail.
 

Crocodile

Member
Episode 3

Making anime is suffering :p Watching this one isn't however :)

With how narrowly tragedy was avoided this week, I have to assume that in some future episode they outright fail and have to deal with the consequences.

With the speed things were going at, I think this is definitely a show I'd like to rewatch dubbed at some point.
 

-Horizon-

Member
So earlier I asked if anybody who didn't know anything about how anime comes together, was watching Shirobako. Some people replied and some were obviously being sarcastic. So I just had a notion of explaining some of the key terms that the show uses because I'm not sure how great of a job it is explaining each process/component. This is intended to be very general/introductory and I'm sure some people are going to point out where I'm wrong.

So I guess the anime production process can be covered up in four general areas. There is also pre-production but that's it's own thing altogether. These four areas are animation, coloring, post animation effects, and sound. Animation and sound can be broken down into subcategories. First let's start with animation since that's really the crux of everything.

Storyboards:

This is how the episode/theme will flow or be framed. An animator or director will fill out the above form and the animators will expand or elaborate on the storyboards in order to create the episode. Some directors create really elaborate storyboards like Shingo Natsume for Space Dandy, others might do some scribbles and expect the animators to figure out the rest.

Key Animation/Genga:

Key animation is the main part of an animated work. They're the key frames in an animated sequence. An animated sequence can also be referred to as a cut, and usually each key animator is assigned a certain number of cuts per episode. What most animators do, some exceptions being Mitsuo Iso or Bahi JD, is that they draw certain parts or frames in a cut and someone else animates the rest.

Inbetweens/Douga:
This is 'the rest' that I just referred to, it's seemingly referred to as inbetweens because they're in-between keyframes. This is outsourced to another studio, or Korea at times, as not only is it mind-numbing work but it also requires an insane amount of manpower. If someone is complaining about the animation being jerky or the characters being offmodel, then chances are somebody fucked up with the inbetweens. There are people who check the inbetweens for quality issues but 'shit happens' as the saying goes. There are thousands of inbetweens in an episode.

Animation Director (translated as Animation Supervisor in Shirobako):

They essentially check or correct key frames and possibly send it back to the original animator to fix. They're usually the more experienced of the staff. Changes can be elaborate or very subtle. In some ways, they're responsible for the animation quality of an episode or movie.

Episode Director (translated as Animation Director in Shirobako):

The person responsible for the episode as a whole. They might also assist with fixing animation but their role encompasses much more as they have to check up with stuff like the sound work for example.

Background Art:
Just that. It's what you see in the background. Most animators usually just do the characters and the background artists (although they're animators/artists too) do the background work. This is always outsourced as well.
--
Coloring:
Animators normally don't color their stuff. This most often is left to a different studio that specializes in coloring. What happens is that each color has a certain number, determined by a color design person, and the studio pretty much just fills it in.
--
Post Animation Efffects:

This is not only CGI work but also can include stuff like putting in depth of field in particular shots. This is also usually outsourced although a number of studios such as Ufotable can do large amounts inhouse.
--
Background music/OST:
The soundtrack for an anime.

Sound work:
The sounds you might hear in an anime letting the closing of a door or the sound a sword a might make. A notable example of good sound work would be Flowers of Evil.

Voice Acting:

What comes out of a character's mouth. Also the worst part of anime fandom.

I expect Shirobako to go over the VA work and post production stuff later (since they have girls dedicated to each). Honestly, there are much better sources of info than this post such as the Little Witch Academia documentary or a multitude of websites covering all of this in much more detail.
I think this was a great post. I honestly just watch anime and don't really know much of the intricacies behind it like the roles people have in the studio (like you talked about above). Maybe that's why I find this show pretty interesting :)
 

TUSR

Banned
Thanks for the quick over there Jarmel.

Looking at all the check lists and everything that brings an anime together is daunting.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Looking at all the check lists and everything that brings an anime together is daunting.

It's super complicated. It's also sort of harder to follow everything when you don't speak Japanese. I'm not as knowledgeable on the producer and post production side as I would like to be, mainly because there just isn't that much material in English. Supposedly there are some good books by one of Trigger's producers that really delves into production but it hasn't been translated into English nor will it ever be.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Shirobako 4

I appreciate how they got away from the studio a bit to focus on the core characters. The reunion was pretty great, and I especially enjoyed that bit where they were examining the movie from a technical perspective. I think this episode encapsulated the ups and downs of reuniting with old highschool friends. You usually have a great time, but it's always tough if you can't measure up to your friends (I've been in that position before, heh). Speaking of not measuring up, being a voice actor is suffering. I think the anime does a good job of making you sympathize with Shizuka; while her friends might be struggling with work, at least they have work. It must be incredibly frustrating to work on unfulfilling jobs, and i'm glad they didn't undercut the entire scene by having Shizuka get the part despite "totally messing up."
 

Akainu

Member
So this is a show about anime huh? Do the females, say voice actors, talk in fake cute voices even when not working?
 

Jarmel

Banned
Shirobako-4

I really liked the first half of the episode with the audition. I wish we saw more of the job searching process, mainly for the animators. I remember hearing how Ufotable would test applicants for animating roles and it would be cool to see if there were any other stories. I'm not wild about voice actors and really don't care about them in the animation production process but I thought the competition level and failure made it interesting to watch. In some ways I'm more fascinated when people fail and how they take that failure.

Oh and I really want to see the script process. I need to see it. There has to be some insane stories lurking in there.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Things I learned: the anime industry requires street racing skills.
 

duckroll

Member
Episode 4

The main cast might be filled with cute girls designed to appeal to the anime demographic and attract them to watch the show in the first place, but there's no denying that the show is passionate about being pretty realistic when it comes to depicting how working adults in the industry actually live. Watching friends get together on their off-day talking about stuff and then ending with a drinking session in a bar isn't something you see everyday in anime.

I liked the audition, and I think the interactions at a lot. Glad to see Reiko Yoshida writing on the show too. She has a nice working relationship with the director, and "old friends meeting up as adults an drinking" is certainly something she's done before. :)

The audition stuff reminds me a lot of the ongoing debates people have about the quality of new stars who are cast. Some like the ones who sound "bad" just because they're different and refreshing, while others prefer more professional performances which conform to expectations. Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll ever see Omigawa cameo on the show as a VA...
 
Episode 4:

Cute girls getting drunk. I guess we should revisit that episode two conversation.

This was probably the weakest episode of the first four, but it was still really good, which should alleviate any possible fears. Even when the show isn't centered around the frantic pacing of getting the episodes of a show ready to air, it can still punch at a high level. There's some nice character stuff here with Aoi in particular, as she struggles to figure out exactly where she wants to go from here. I also loved how after seeing the movie, the characters were all discussing the various behind the scenes aspects of the production, such as Aoi judging how many cuts there were, or Shizuka analyzing the performance of the voice acting. Even when they aren't on the job, these are characters who are well versed in the production of anime.

Aoi's phone conversation with her mother was also a very nice and human moment. It reminded me a lot of the phone conversations I have with my parents. Kinoshita and Madoka's argument about the AC was also pretty amusing.

Takanashi continues to be the worst character, and he really needs to stop having any sort of important position on any thing. Yano and Aoi shooting him down at various points in the episode was pretty amusing.

Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll ever see Omigawa cameo on the show as a VA...

I would take any role for Omigawa at this point. But the universe isn't that fair. :(
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Sadoka Mazoka - Madoka Magica
Mon Mon Biyori - Non Non Biyori
Ai Puri - ???
 
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