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If I do end up buying a Move controller, I doubt I'll be using it for many games.

SOCOM 4 better come out with a special edition version of the Move controller (which I don't think will happen)... one that replicates a real assault rifle. Otherwise, I'll be sticking with my DualShock 3.

 

[Mr.Green]

Hardware wise it's very similar to the Wii, as long as you ignore the extra stuff they can do with the camera, that is, but the software they've shown is much more appealing to me. Well, assuming these awesome tech demos translate into games down the road.

 

[selig]

Then all you want is shitty games and ridiculous gimmicks, and excuse me when I don't give a fuck about opinions like that. It's not something someone who loves games would say.

That maybe would be correct, if it wasnt for my abnormal gaming habits. There´s probably 3-5 games a year that I really enjoy. And even less that I "love". I assume when you´re calling games gimmicky and shitty when the first generation of introducing something new happens, and there´s not a lot of games that utilize the "new something", it´s a failure in your eyes. I´m of different opinion here. Truly great games are SO damn rare, so if even a single game does it right (and let´s make this clear: all hopes rest on Zelda Wii), then that´s success. Because I don´t give a damn about having 10 or 20 or 30 MotionPlus-games. I care about the one game that really does it right, immerses me, has me playing for dozens and dozens of hours.
That´s why I want something new with EVERY hardware generation. There may not be created a lot of great stuff due to its new nature, but it´s likely that at least some developers get a quick grasp on the new stuff. These are the games I look forward to.

And by the by, when Wii 2 is just a refinement of the formula, selig, with some better online and better visuals, but with a vitality sensor built in now, I'm going to sit here and laugh as you fall over yourself to proclaim that's what you always wanted. Because that's what's going to happen. That's what always happens. I've been around long enough to know the reaction of fanboys.[

Could happen, yeah, there´s a high probability for that. But you can bet that I´ll be one of the first to complain about it. That´s not to say that I won´t buy it, because, again, I (still) love home console-Zeldas. But there won´t be anything to hype if that´s what Nintendo decides to do. Whenever NeoGAF starts the whole "What do you expect from Wii Too?"-topics, once Iwata dropped the first hints towards its launch, you´ll surely see me posting "I expect a visor, or a handheld-console hybrid, or a vr-glove" or whatever. Stuff you will laugh about But never will you see me posting "oh, I want refined motion controls and hd". Because that´s not what I want. Prior to this generation I was about to stop buying home consoles. Believe it or not, I said to myself "If Nintendo doesnt do anything different, new, I´m out". That was before any hints that the "Revolution" would be different. Well, I got lucky.
Maybe now you can see why I´m that entitled to "new" stuff over refinements of existing stuff. It´s not bad, but it doesn´t really introduce all new possibilities for games. And in my opinion, future games are driven by creative hardware, not by hardware power anymore.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

i still remember that gdc thread a few months ago.
from this
then you specifically posted this
and someone upped the ante with this
man that thread was gold in the last pages :lol

Holy shit:lol

 

[cakefoo]

I think that most people who are calling people out for apparently doing complete U-turns fail to realize that people trashed the Wii not because it had motion controls, but because of the way it was doing motion controls.

Yeah, count me in the crowd who was EXTREMELY excited for the Wii starting in Q4 2005, then started to lose faith as the launch approached, but still bought it on day 1 with like 8 games, then was incredibly disappointed in the fidelity and the games, and sold it all. Then I rebought the system with M+ and WSR when the price dropped to $199, but have been unimpressed with M+ and the limited software attention Nintendo themselves have given it. I was FAR more impressed with Sony's because it tracks actual 1:1 on all axes, thereby removing all limitations and training wheels so that there are no restrictions to the types of games you can play. I'm not so much gung-ho about games being sim-difficult, but rather just excited about being able to do what I mistook the Wii for in 2005: basically anything that involves body and hand movements. I'm less excited for Natal because again, like M+, the thing is not accurate enough, based on preview code. The realtime technical capabilities of the Move are enough to get me excited without having to see actual games, but MS hasn't even shown that Natal tracks reliably enough to get me excited about the tech. In reality the demos have only hurt Natal's reputation so far.

 

[cakefoo]

One thing that stands out in that video is just how unfocused the "messaging" is with Move. So, it's like the Wii, only more complicated? I follow this stuff closely (and I'm sure I'll buy the setup), but I have a hard time seeing exactly what it's for. Nintendo at least kept their message simple. And MS is doing the same for Natal. But Sony just keeps pumping out these really complicated demos and ideas in a completely rough and unfocused way. Show that stuff to the developers, not to the gaming public.

They're a tech-heavy publication interested in Move's tech demos. Just look at the videos on their channel. They aren't Oprah or Ellen. Their viewers aren't idiots. They intentionally presented the info from Sony to interest people who are interested in the tech side.

 

[Deku]

have been unimpressed with M+ and the limited software attention Nintendo themselves have given it. I was FAR more impressed with Sony's because it tracks actual 1:1 on all axes, thereby removing all limitations and training wheels so that there are no restrictions to the types of games you can play. ...'m less excited for Natal because again,

Sometimes virals and fake objectivists hang themselves by being too elaborate with their cover stories.

And this is one such case.

Search may be down but there's google search and you're name, but there is google search and posts like this from your rabid defending of the just unveiled move, not to mention thousands of posts you've made in PS3 only threads (gee I wonder why) is plastered everywhere on this forum.

Get a better story next time (maybe?)

 

[EmCeeGramr]

what the

 

[Saint Gregory]

Yes, I was responding to Selig's claim that the frisbee pre-throw control is 1:1, and never implied the hardware couldn't do more with different software.

Sorry if I misunderstood the context of your GIFs but in the post I quoted you were specifically talking about the controller which is what I addressed. The remote, with or without M+, is hyper sensitive. The need for constant recalibration doesn't disprove that instead all it reflects is the remote's inability to know where it is in 3D space. Really it doesn't even have a good starting reference point nevermind the abilty to self correct its ending position.

Move doesn't have to worry about that for obvious reasons but I one thing I've noticed in several freedom of movement games on Wii is how difficult it is to get on-screen avatars to keep up with objects being manipualted in near 1:1 realtime. In GST it's not at all difficult to get your player in really awkward positions in relation to the racquet and I shouldn't even have to bring up that unfortunate Avatar pretzel from Microsoft's E3 conference last year. Absolute positioning all by itself is not going to solve that issue and a lot of the Move demos I've seen so far either show disembodied objects being manipulated of enhanced reality where the object is being projected over video. I'm not saying this is an issue with the tech but more of an issue with motion tracking application that has to be solved.

what the

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what just happened here :/

 

[cakefoo]

Sometimes virals and fake objectivists hang themselves by being too elaborate with their cover stories.

And this is one such case.

Search may be down but there's google search and you're name, and posts like this from your rabid defending of the just unveiled move is plastered everywhere on this forum.

Get a better story next time (maybe?)

I don't get what the fuck you're saying. I was excited for Wii, but then I got it and learned of its technical limitations. I was excited for M+, but then I got it and learned of its technical limitations. Now I've learned my lesson, and now I'm excited for Move because there's no misdirections here- they confidently force their tech demos into the hands of regular people to show that it's unbreakable. Natal, on the other hand, is riddled with tracking glitches.

So what are you saying? That I shouldn't be defending Sony's take on motion controls? Why not? It's better. Sony did the same motion control sports with the Eyetoy that the Wii didn't do until 2006, and yet Sony's the ones getting bashed for copying nintendo? I don't get it. They had one-handed nunchuck controllers GENERATIONS before Wii did it. Again, the verdict is that Sony copied Nintendo, dur du dur. Again wrong. All the attacks I find invalid, I respond to. So what? Isn't that what we all do? What makes my way wrong? You mad?

 

[Lijik]

Hardware wise it's very similar to the Wii, as long as you ignore the extra stuff they can do with the camera, that is, but the software they've shown is much more appealing to me. Well, assuming these awesome tech demos translate into games down the road.

I think this is pretty much my worry for the move.
Can the precision be used in ways that will be fun for actual games, and if they can will third parties actually make use of it or opt for HD waggle.
I'm sure either way, most of Sony's Move games are going to be great.

Also :lol :lol :lol at Deku for thinking the GDC 10 showing was the first time they ever showed the actual controller. Goddamn.

 

[Ramenman]

“I think with Move it’s all about appealing to skill. It’s about the learning curve that’s built into the experience. It provides that satisfaction you’re talking about. The more you play the better you get. That’s part and parcel of the traditional gaming experience.”

Oh, so like in Wii Sports Resort. I get it now.

 

[Raist]

And how was that? Very few people, including Wii fans, seem to understand the difference between what hardware is capable of and what software is capable of. The real problem here afterall is that we're comparing Move demos to actual Wii retail games. Once the Move games are released and we can compare the controllers in actual gameplay then all this debate will be moot.

We're talking 4 years ago, so Move and WM+ (the latter especially, because for these people, damage was already done) are out of the equation.
But originally, the only games focusing heavily on motion controls were simplistic, minigames or party stuff (which didn't help to get any love from GAFers) or felt tacked in major games where it was basically a vague gesture replacing a button push most of the time.
Back then, due to hype, hyperbole articles, discussions going crazy on boards with lots of speculation, and Nintendo's advertising which was clearly misleading, many people were expecting 1:1 sword fights and the like. So the backlash on the Wii and now growing interesting on Move from the same people isn't exactly unjustified IMO.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Sometimes virals and fake objectivists hang themselves by being too elaborate with their cover stories.

And this is one such case.

Search may be down but there's google search and you're name, but there is google search and posts like this from your rabid defending of the just unveiled move, not to mention thousands of posts you've made in PS3 only threads (gee I wonder why) is plastered everywhere on this forum.

Get a better story next time (maybe?)

CakeFoo is to the Move what Wollen was to HOME.

 

[cakefoo]

Sorry if I misunderstood the context of your GIFs but in the post I quoted you were specifically talking about the controller which is what I addressed.

Selig and I were talking about the frisbee. Reading it again with what I'm referring to in parentheses:

You mean, why am I (playing the frisbee game) moving the position of the supposed 1:1 controller? (just an implication that the hardware is sketchy) Because I thought it was supposed to track 1:1 (in the frisbee game, like Selig claimed).

Don't you mean software that's supposed to track 1:1.

Again, yes I was referring to software at that juncture. Selig and I were quoting each other and knew what we were both referring to. Sorry if it wasn't apparent enough.

 

[Apenheul]

I don't get what the fuck you're saying. I was excited for Wii, but then I got it and learned of its technical limitations. I was excited for M+, but then I got it and learned of its technical limitations. Now I've learned my lesson, and now I'm excited for Move because there's no misdirections here- they confidently force their tech demos into the hands of regular people to show that it's unbreakable. Natal, on the other hand, is riddled with tracking glitches.

I think you're just repeating the same mistake, just wait until you get to try Move and Natal.

 

[cakefoo]

CakeFoo is to the Move what Wollen was to HOME.

What's the matter with people? Jesus christ. God forbid I confront people who claim M+ is 100% as capable as Move.

 

[Saint Gregory]

We're talking 4 years ago, so Move and WM+ (the latter especially, because for these people, damage was already done) are out of the equation.
But originally, the only games focusing heavily on motion controls were simplistic, minigames or party stuff (which didn't help to get any love from GAFers) or felt tacked in major games where it was basically a vague gesture replacing a button push most of the time.
Back then, due to hype, hyperbole articles, discussions going crazy on boards with lots of speculation, and Nintendo's advertising which was clearly misleading, many people were expecting 1:1 sword fights and the like. So the backlash on the Wii and now growing interesting on Move from the same people isn't exactly unjustified IMO.

I don't disagree with any of that actually but all I'm saying is for right now this is the Sonic cycle playing itself out again. Back in '06 we saw a lot of ineresting tech demos for the Wii (eerily similar demos to the Move demos I might add) and while I've played quite a few disatisfying Wii gesture games where it didn't seem like my actions were being tracked acurately I can't think of even one Wii remote demo where this was the case. This leads me to believe that while the remote by itself isn't as capable and accurate as Move with the addition of the PSEye the real problem with the Wii isn't accuracy but it's applying the massive amount of data collected by the controller and translating that into reliable game imput. That's all me and a few slim others having been trying to say in this thread but it's being mistaken as trolling Move.

Better accuracy is great and Amirox and a couple others have pointed out the benefits greater accuracy can bring to certain genres but I'm still not sure that acuracy has been what we've been missing.

 

[cakefoo]

I think you're just repeating the same mistake, just wait until you get to try Move and Natal.

Move's library could also be unimpressive, but my belief is that the lackluster motion controls to this day have been more due to the lacking hardware than creativity of developers, and that Move is the underdog of the three controllers and will benefit the most in the long run from working as advertised, whereas Natal and M+ feel like the tech wasn't ready.

 

[Dice]

Shit. Last time we got something "complimentary" it was PSPgo. I guess they aren't going to bother supporting Move.

 

[jman2050]

Move's library could also be unimpressive, but my belief is that the lackluster motion controls to this day have been more due to the lacking hardware than creativity of developers, and that Move is the underdog of the three controllers and will benefit the most in the long run from working as advertised, whereas Natal and M+ feel like the tech wasn't ready.

See, this is the main point of contention here, as I believe the complete opposite. WSR compared to pretty much every other non-Nintendo Wii game emphasizes that.

 

[Wazzim]

The fact that they have to say that states enough IMO.

 

[harry4000uk]

Move's library could also be unimpressive, but my belief is that the lackluster motion controls to this day have been more due to the lacking hardware than creativity of developers, and that Move is the underdog of the three controllers and will benefit the most in the long run from working as advertised, whereas Natal and M+ feel like the tech wasn't ready.

how is move different to motion+?

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Sounds like either bullshit or a troubling departure into over-complication and over-expense.

 

[Apenheul]

how is move different to motion+?

It's different, but that's not the point of the discussion.

 

[Deku]

Also :lol :lol :lol at Deku for thinking the GDC 10 showing was the first time they ever showed the actual controller. Goddamn.

i believe that post relates to cakefoo's rabid defense of the similarities, down to the nunchuchkadd-on (which was shown at GDC10)

Aside from that, cakefoo's post history speaks for itself. And apparently, he also posts on PS3 IGN under the same name.

Hilarious shit there too. He is totally in his element.

Short of it: cakefoo is not impartial, and his frothing at the mouth Move posts here is him being restrained.

 

[harry4000uk]

It's different, but that's not the point of the discussion.

i guess the point i'm trying to make is that i see no tangible difference between them apart from eyetoy

move is 1:1. wii motion + is 1:1 on games like tiger woods, red steel 2 and wii sports resort. wii motion+ has a tiny amount of lag that is basically imperceptible, move has the same. wii motion + needs to be calibrated sometimes. move is the same. wiimotion+ was launched with a bunch of minigames. move will be the same.

i dont really see this magical difference that certain people are seeing

 

[Agent X]

Move's library could also be unimpressive, but my belief is that the lackluster motion controls to this day have been more due to the lacking hardware than creativity of developers, and that Move is the underdog of the three controllers and will benefit the most in the long run from working as advertised, whereas Natal and M+ feel like the tech wasn't ready.

(Bolded the part that I'm specifically addressing.)

I think it's a combination of both. While motion controls in Wii games haven't been flawless, there are some games that have done a great job of it, and are able to work around or cover up any accuracy issues that might crop up during gameplay There are also a lot of other shovelware games (particularly collections of "mini games" or "party games") that were basically thrown together on the cheap and rushed to market, merely to capitalize on the exploding popularity of Wii with casual/lapsed gamers. This is not necessarily a reflection of the quality of Wii motion controls, but how much effort they were willing to put into it.

I think having more precision and accuracy will definitely lead to the potential for better motion-controlled games, but it's still up to talented developers to use that potential. The guys who can crank out great Wii games could very likely do even better work on PS3, while the guys who "phone it in" on Wii probably aren't going to produce significantly better output even if the controller was a thousand times more accurate.

It's in Sony's interest to ensure they can attract the best developers to Move, and hopefully lead by example and provide some compelling first-party Move games as well. If that isn't done at launch or shortly afterward, then Move could quickly fade into obscurity.

how is move different to motion+?

The most obvious difference is that it also incorporates the PlayStation Eye, so you could also have camera-based games, such as what we saw with EyeToy on PS2. Combining the camera with the Move "wand", you could get some very interesting augmented reality games, such as the tennis racket and sword wielding demos that you might have seen.

 

[Apenheul]

i guess the point i'm trying to make is that i see no tangible difference between them apart from eyetoy

move is 1:1. wii motion + is 1:1 on games like tiger woods, red steel 2 and wii sports resort. wii motion+ has a tiny amount of lag that is basically imperceptible, move has the same. wii motion + needs to be calibrated sometimes. move is the same. wiimotion+ was launched with a bunch of minigames. move will be the same.

i dont really see this magical difference that certain people are seeing

Ah ok, yes well people tend to forget the camera with Move. So other types of games really are possible.

If it's just rotations then yes Move and Motion+ are very similar, more similar then some people like to believe. It should be easy to understand that techdemos that have all system resources available just for showing a single scene and some controls can run much smoother than games that have physics/collision, AI, graphics processing, audio & geometry streaming, texture swapping, input handling, while reading from disk.

 

[Raist]

i guess the point i'm trying to make is that i see no tangible difference between them apart from eyetoy

move is 1:1. wii motion + is 1:1 on games like tiger woods, red steel 2 and wii sports resort. wii motion+ has a tiny amount of lag that is basically imperceptible, move has the same. wii motion + needs to be calibrated sometimes. move is the same. wiimotion+ was launched with a bunch of minigames. move will be the same.

i dont really see this magical difference that certain people are seeing

Move has 2 major reference points helping to track its actual and absolute position in space, one being limited to a position relative to the screen (the camera and its FOV), the other one is a magnotometer which doesn't have such flaw.
WM+ has two with inherent flaws: the internal camera (which requires pointing towards the sensor bar at all time and thus limiting the range of movements you can make) and calibrating by not moving the controller at all, otherwise it's heavily prone to drifting.
Move has much more potential and possibilities, as demostrated by several tech demos which cannot be reproduced on the Wii at all.

We've been through that one million times, just read previous Move threads.

 

[Inanna]

Everyone who thinks move is a Wii clone needs to watch Move tech demo on Engadget show. That's the kind of stuff that Sony needs to showcase instead of Wii clone games. Its Sony's own fault that people are dismissing it. The stuff that they have shown so far makes it seem like a Wii clone.

I don't have a link to the entire video. But found a youtube video that shows a bit from the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7jbElxoWFc

 

[cakefoo]

See, this is the main point of contention here, as I believe the complete opposite. WSR compared to pretty much every other non-Nintendo Wii game emphasizes that.

That doesn't contradict what I believe- that without the tracking restrictions, developers have a better likelihood of being able to map something 1:1 instead of using gestures. Which brings up the argument that 1:1 isn't good for pro sports because then you have to actually be identically as good as Phil Mickelson, BUT they have the freedom to scale everything down as far as is needed. I think there's enough room for more precision- see table tennis and how you have to guide the paddle and swing AT the ball, rather than just flicking your wrist wildly.

 

[Baki]

Everyone who thinks move is a Wii clone needs to watch Move tech demo on Engadget show. That's the kind of stuff that Sony needs to showcase instead of Wii clone games. Its Sony's own fault that people are dismissing it. The stuff that they have shown so far makes it seem like a Wii clone.

I don't have a link to the entire video. But found a youtube video that shows a bit from the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7jbElxoWFc

INNAANNNNNNA



Surprised to find you on gaming side. :lol

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Move has 2 major reference points helping to track its actual and absolute position in space, one being limited to a position relative to the screen (the camera and its FOV), the other one is a magnotometer which doesn't have such flaw.
WM+ has two with inherent flaws: the internal camera (which requires pointing towards the sensor bar at all time and thus limiting the range of movements you can make) and calibrating by not moving the controller at all, otherwise it's heavily prone to drifting.
Move has much more potential and possibilities, as demostrated by several tech demos which cannot be reproduced on the Wii at all.

We've been through that one million times, just read previous Move threads.

Is being able to hold a weapon or something pointed at yourself really groundbreaking potential for a game? Sure, it's refinement of the technology, but the Wii acts on a "good enough" mentality that's usually "good enough" for gamers. Nobody is really going to notice those very, very minor differences, when their dude on the screen can swing his sword and kill things the same identical way. The slashing may be more true to your movement, but it's purpose is still to kill stuff.

 

[Raist]

Is being able to hold a weapon or something pointed at yourself really groundbreaking potential for a game?

Yes, poiting a gun at yourself is obviously the only case where not having to point directly at the screen is an advantage.

 

[cakefoo]

(Bolded the part that I'm specifically addressing.)

I think it's a combination of both. While motion controls in Wii games haven't been flawless, there are some games that have done a great job of it, and are able to work around or cover up any accuracy issues that might crop up during gameplay There are also a lot of other shovelware games (particularly collections of "mini games" or "party games") that were basically thrown together on the cheap and rushed to market, merely to capitalize on the exploding popularity of Wii with casual/lapsed gamers. This is not necessarily a reflection of the quality of Wii motion controls, but how much effort they were willing to put into it.

I think having more precision and accuracy will definitely lead to the potential for better motion-controlled games, but it's still up to talented developers to use that potential. The guys who can crank out great Wii games could very likely do even better work on PS3, while the guys who "phone it in" on Wii probably aren't going to produce significantly better output even if the controller was a thousand times more accurate.

Nintendo is the best for the Wii, but they've only made 1 M+ game since it launched. They seem to be treating it more like the Balance Board than as a new sub-platform. Sony, on the other hand, I believe has a lot of momentum swinging their way because while the Move doesn't differentiate itself a great deal from Wii, it differentiates itself from within the PS3 platform itself. Motion+ has to share the Wii pie with the vanilla Wiimote, whereas every game on Move can be focused squarely on the Move's full capabilities. This won't completely guaranteed the end of wrist flicking, but I think the chances of more advanced motion controls will be greater on Move, both from Sony and third parties. Don't forget the fact that Sony aims to publish 20 Move-compatible games by March 2011, compared to Nintendo's one M+ game after a year from launch. Nothing wrong with having a wide variety of software to choose from.

 

[harry4000uk]

Move has 2 major reference points helping to track its actual and absolute position in space, one being limited to a position relative to the screen (the camera and its FOV), the other one is a magnotometer which doesn't have such flaw.
WM+ has two with inherent flaws: the internal camera (which requires pointing towards the sensor bar at all time and thus limiting the range of movements you can make) and calibrating by not moving the controller at all, otherwise it's heavily prone to drifting.
Move has much more potential and possibilities, as demostrated by several tech demos which cannot be reproduced on the Wii at all.

We've been through that one million times, just read previous Move threads.

so they each have different ways of tracking motion and move is better. i understand that
but again the wii motion + doesn't make you point at the screen to calibrate in some games. in tiger woods you point at the ground and for red steel you have to like it flat on a table. why is that?

the "potential" and "possiblities" i've seeen with the move look exactly the same as wii. you canuse it as a sword. you can use it for boxing. you can use the pointer for shooters and rail shooters. the maint thing with wii motion+ that they demonstated was always that when you move your hand about the hand on screen moved at the exact same time. as far as i can tell that's also move's main selling point

so again wtf is the difference apart from eyetoy

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yes, poiting a gun at yourself is obviously the only case where not having to point directly at the screen is an advantage.

Chances are, whatever you're pondering could be done with a button press and make life easier for everyone.

I can see how it would be kind of interesting for blocking, but such an action works a whole lot better with a button press. Maybe for a 180 turn, but again, a button press allows for a more fluid movement, and doesn't disorient the player. Interesting physics type puzzles could probably use it (like Boom Blox), but that's a very limited demograph for a "groundbreaking" technology.

There's a difference between, being able to do something, and that something actually being fun in gaming. Isn't one of the major criticisms of the Wii that it uses motion controls in places where a button press would have worked better?

 

[Inanna]

INNAANNNNNNA



Surprised to find you on gaming side. :lol

What are you talking about? I post A LOT more on the gaming side compared to OT. :lol

Seriously, I'd LOVE to see a survival horror game (maybe in first person) where you can control the camera using move (like in the vid), look around the place, investigate, interact with the environment, shoot people, etc.. Or even an RTS game. I'd love to see games like that.

 

[DMeisterJ]

CakeFoo is to the Move what Wollen was to HOME.

Quite an ironic statement coming from you

 

[Lijik]

i believe that post relates to cakefoo's rabid defense of the similarities, down to the nunchuchkadd-on (which was shown at GDC10)

Aside from that, cakefoo's post history speaks for itself. And apparently, he also posts on PS3 IGN under the same name.

Hilarious shit there too. He is totally in his element.

Short of it: cakefoo is not impartial, and his frothing at the mouth Move posts here is him being restrained.

I dunno, that post seems reasonable. Someone is claiming Sony ripped off Nintendo when they didn't, Cakefoo points out "lol, no"

You should have linked to his IGN blog.

 

[cakefoo]

Chances are, whatever you're pondering could be done with a button press and make life easier for everyone.

I can see how it would be kind of interesting for blocking, but such an action works a whole lot better with a button press. Maybe for a 180 turn, but again, a button press allows for a more fluid movement, and doesn't disorient the player. Interesting physics type puzzles could probably use it (like Boom Blox), but that's a very limited demograph for a "groundbreaking" technology.

There's a difference between, being able to do something, and that something actually being fun in gaming. Isn't one of the major criticisms of the Wii that it uses motion controls in places where a button press would have worked better?

Yes, but that's because they incorporate waggle into traditional games improperly. I don't want it to get tedious (like swinging a sword for 40 hours), and I don't want it to be shoehorned in (like flicking up to jump).

Part of the tracking advantages of Move can be seen in the augmented reality games. While it looks like the virtual elements are brought into the real world, if you just switch it to a first person perspective it would put you in the virtual world instead, like a traditional game, and from there you can hold anything in your hand. I think getting away from flick gestures will be a crucial step. I'd like to see slower-paced games using the 1:1 controls, and maybe see some interesting adventure, horror and puzzle games. But that's just me. It seems everyone else just wants to play Demons Souls and Killzone with it XP

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Everyone who thinks move is a Wii clone needs to watch Move tech demo on Engadget show. That's the kind of stuff that Sony needs to showcase instead of Wii clone games. Its Sony's own fault that people are dismissing it. The stuff that they have shown so far makes it seem like a Wii clone.

I don't have a link to the entire video. But found a youtube video that shows a bit from the show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7jbElxoWFc

I don't understand how any Wii gamer can watch that and not get excited. This is what I imagined from the get go when the wiimote was announced at TGS. And while motion+ is truly a step-up from the original wiimote and can provide get motion controlled experiences that are very close to one-to-one (RS2, WSR, Tiger 10, Grand Slam Tennis, etc.), Move is truly THE next step in motion gaming.

Now lets just see if Sony and Move developers actually take this seriously and deliver on the great possibilities. If it's more of what they showed at GDC then they can just go fuck themselves.

 

[Agent X]

Is being able to hold a weapon or something pointed at yourself really groundbreaking potential for a game? Sure, it's refinement of the technology, but the Wii acts on a "good enough" mentality that's usually "good enough" for gamers. Nobody is really going to notice those very, very minor differences, when their dude on the screen can swing his sword and kill things the same identical way. The slashing may be more true to your movement, but it's purpose is still to kill stuff.

It often is "good enough" for casual gamers, just like having aim assist in first-person shooters is "good enough" for some people. However, some other players might appreciate having increased accuracy, and games that take that accuracy into account for a truer measure of skill. It's like taking the training wheels off the bike.

Also, the pendulum swings both ways. What's "good enough" most of the time can occasionally turn into "bad enough" if the game registers a movement incorrectly. I've had instances during Wii Sports where a slight wayward movement in tennis (to position my hand) was interpreted as a swing, or where the bowling ball had a pronounced, errant right hook (I throw righty and usually hook gently left). It doesn't happen often, thankfully, but when it does happen it's highly frustrating.

so again wtf is the difference apart from eyetoy

Did you read what I said above (post #428) about the camera augmented reality games? I know others have mentioned it in this thread as well.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Quite an ironic statement coming from you

I told myself I would never quote your tag... but you're making it hard.

 

[cakefoo]

I dunno, that post seems reasonable. Someone is claiming Sony ripped off Nintendo when they didn't, Cakefoo points out "lol, no"

You should have linked to his IGN blog.

Why hello, 2 years ago...

"Nintendo's not really ripping off Jackie; these types of interfaces have existed long before the Wii."

"So motion-controlled gaming has been around a long time, but here's what I don't get: why is it that the Wii has been such a huge success with such an old gimmicky concept?"

"I don't get why shaking to spin in Mario Galaxy is worth camping outside stores overnight"

Oh hey, did you look at my early IGN post history? When I was in love with the Wii?

http://boards.ign.com/UserPages/PostHistory.aspx?usr=1251654&user=&board=-1&page=115
http://boards.ign.com/nintendo_wii_general_board/b8263/98848268/r114094713/

Why is there no 11?

And obviously the controller isn't going to be rated a 1, what with the traditional dual analog shell, you'll cover everything the other companies have and then some. So if you rate it a 1, your vote means "I'm a hater and didn't put any thought into this vote at all"

If it were YOUR console maker's invention, you'd see the light.

See, even back then I was playing the bias card at others, and now that I've had 4 years to think it over I've switched to the Move, except that now I'm not playing the bias cards, they're playing them on me? Why? I thought a love for new technology was understandable?

 

[selig]

I don't understand how any Wii gamer can watch that and not get excited. This is what I imagined from the get go when the wiimote was announced at TGS. .

wat
Any "Wii gamer" that expected a camera tracking all your movements within 3dimensional space was delusional. that was never even promised. but i guess youre just spinning memory. MotionPlus does what gamers expected the Wiimote to do in 2006. You can complain about that, but not about some features missing that were never part of it.

 

[donny2112]

WM+ has two with inherent flaws: the internal camera (which requires pointing towards the sensor bar at all time and thus limiting the range of movements you can make)

The bolded is plainly false. Specifically, that the camera does not typically come into play for gesturing, so it therefore doesn't limit gesturing. Can you rephrase to say whatever it is you meant to say?

Edit:
Maybe you meant "limiting the area you can point to accurately"? If that's the case, others have mentioned that Red Steel 2 uses the Motion+ peripheral to keep track of where you're pointing when you move off-screen, so it's not as limiting as it used to be for pointing, at least.

Nintendo is the best for the Wii, but they've only made 1 M+ game since it launched.

Reginleiv.

They seem to be treating it more like the Balance Board than as a new sub-platform.

They didn't make a Balance Board-only Zelda, nor did they start packing in the Balance Board with all consoles. There's reason to be skeptical of Nintendo's future support based on their history, yes, but they've already taken a lot of steps with Motion+ that they haven't done with any prior peripherals to make it part of the standard.

Don't forget the fact that Sony aims to publish 20 Move-compatible games by March 2011, compared to Nintendo's one M+ game after a year from launch. Nothing wrong with having a wide variety of software to choose from.

Comparing all Move game output to Motion+ only output is misleading. SOCOM 4 is much more comparable to the pointer on the standard Wiimote than a Motion-heavy title, for example.

 

[cakefoo]

wat
Any "Wii gamer" that expected a camera tracking all your movements within 3dimensional space was delusional. that was never even promised. but i guess youre just spinning memory. MotionPlus does what gamers expected the Wiimote to do in 2006. You can complain about that, but not about some features missing that were never part of it.

When Revolution was announced, it was widely speculated to use something to triangulate the 1:1 position and orientation of the controller. I believe they were touting 3D space a lot in the early goings. Needless to say, it was a letdown when it turned out you just flicked to generate a pre-canned swing animation, and you couldn't duck behind your couch to take cover in an FPS. They really exaggerated the fidelity in the TGS 05 trailer, which is similarly why I smell BS when I see Natal's trailers and why the only thing I trust any more is actual gameplay or tech demos.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

wat
Any "Wii gamer" that expected a camera tracking all your movements within 3dimensional space was delusional. that was never even promised. but i guess youre just spinning memory. MotionPlus does what gamers expected the Wiimote to do in 2006. You can complain about that, but not about some features missing that were never part of it.

I'm not talking about "movement within 3dimenional space".

But none-the-less; Bullshit. Nintendo promised one-to-one with it's crazy misleading trailer in the beginning. Not to mention the talking heads that spouted it left and right. Yet they still haven't achieved that yet. Yeah, Motion+ is a big step up and awesome as well. But it doesn't offer true one-to-one motion gaming (at least not in any game released so far or any tech demo shown to the public). Move's tech demos prove that it is capable of one-to-one motion gaming.

And it's not like Nintendo told us much about the Wii at that TGS besides showing off that trailer. Anybody could of thought anything. I was mislead into thinking one-to-one motion gaming like thousands of other gamers. I haven't received that yet.