AHA-Lambda
Member
But would cannibalise sales of a new CoD, so it goes against Activision's interests to do so.
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Should Nintendo make a Super Smash Bros Melee remaster?
- Thread starter vicissitudes
- Start date
But would cannibalise sales of a new CoD, so it goes against Activision's interests to do so.
Sadly, there is no way that will ever happen with F-Zero GX's sales.
And I say that as someone who would kill for a F-Zero GX remaster with online support.
Solid Samus
Banned
Nooooooooo.
Smash Bros. is a highly iterative series with massive content additions being made around the core formula with each successive title. While there's those of us who prefer Melee's gameplay, or continue to enjoy it for what it is compared to the other Smash Bros. games, I'd imagine that from Nintendo and the dev team's perspective, there's very little reason to remaster Melee, because the two games which followed retained the majority of relevant content from their predecessors while like doubling the overall content . And now that their latest game has a cheap and simple vehicle for delivering old and new content alike, I wouldn't be surprised if they had actually talked about a remaster of one of their old games internally for a while before settling on DLC as a better option (where players can individually purchase pieces of whatever sates their nostalgia, playable in the most modern iteration of the franchise, at far less immediately imposing price points than a full remaster).
There's other ways to get your Melee fix in a more modern form these days. You could play Project M which is great, or run Melee on Dolphin @ 720p and beyond (it's not a taxing game, though the game may stutter for a frame upon loading certain elements if not installed on an SSD). And for some of you, those solutions would probably be preferable to a Nintendo-developed remaster anyway, considering I can't imagine Nintendo just porting the game up without making any tweaks whatsoever to how things look or work.
If anything Nintendo ought to be working on a Super Smash Bros. 4 Remaster or Complete Edition for whatever platform it is that they're bringing out next.
I honestly thought that GAF as a community was beyond this sort of awful post these days but the unwarranted antagonism from some of you has me rethinking that. And every day the "Melee elitists are even more confrontational!!" excuse for that sort of behavior diminishes less and less, as the competitive Melee community becomes less defensive/antagonistic thanks to their exposure and general acceptance among similar communities, and more adept many have become at calmly explaining to the uninitiated what they like, why they like it, and why that's cool, to avoid stupid fucking bickering matches to begin with
Smash Bros. is a highly iterative series with massive content additions being made around the core formula with each successive title. While there's those of us who prefer Melee's gameplay, or continue to enjoy it for what it is compared to the other Smash Bros. games, I'd imagine that from Nintendo and the dev team's perspective, there's very little reason to remaster Melee, because the two games which followed retained the majority of relevant content from their predecessors while like doubling the overall content . And now that their latest game has a cheap and simple vehicle for delivering old and new content alike, I wouldn't be surprised if they had actually talked about a remaster of one of their old games internally for a while before settling on DLC as a better option (where players can individually purchase pieces of whatever sates their nostalgia, playable in the most modern iteration of the franchise, at far less immediately imposing price points than a full remaster).
There's other ways to get your Melee fix in a more modern form these days. You could play Project M which is great, or run Melee on Dolphin @ 720p and beyond (it's not a taxing game, though the game may stutter for a frame upon loading certain elements if not installed on an SSD). And for some of you, those solutions would probably be preferable to a Nintendo-developed remaster anyway, considering I can't imagine Nintendo just porting the game up without making any tweaks whatsoever to how things look or work.
If anything Nintendo ought to be working on a Super Smash Bros. 4 Remaster or Complete Edition for whatever platform it is that they're bringing out next.
Yes! Remaster the game and release it with this cover.
Nah seriously. Melee is a relic compared to Smash Bros 4. Just leave it in the past alongside those niche hardcore fans who refuse to accept anything new.
I honestly thought that GAF as a community was beyond this sort of awful post these days but the unwarranted antagonism from some of you has me rethinking that. And every day the "Melee elitists are even more confrontational!!" excuse for that sort of behavior diminishes less and less, as the competitive Melee community becomes less defensive/antagonistic thanks to their exposure and general acceptance among similar communities, and more adept many have become at calmly explaining to the uninitiated what they like, why they like it, and why that's cool, to avoid stupid fucking bickering matches to begin with
Guest12345678
Member
If melee players can live with pal changes, especially with dreamhack around the corner, I think they can deal with a few more changes unless Nintendo goes crazy. I think if they have trinen or someone whose in with the scene consulting, it'll turn out fine for the community. Also a mcc style setup as others have mentioned will probably put everyone's fears at bay. It's not like being picky is exclusive to the melee scene.
I think it would have been much more useful if they had incorporated some sort of advanced mode into Smash 4 from the get-go: higher speed, and stuff like wavedashing...
But I'm not sure if something like this could've worked with their engine.
Some features like disabling stage hazards would also still make sense.
But I'm not sure if something like this could've worked with their engine.
Some features like disabling stage hazards would also still make sense.
Guest12345678
Member
You think a year from now smash 4's going to be lighting up the charts enough to be cannabalised, sorry I don't think the opportunity cost favors that argument.
Guest12345678
Member
All the people saying smash is iterative as an argument are misguided, the changes between iterations are as big as changes between Zelda games and those get plenty of remakes.
Pokemaniac
Member
Smash is one of Nintendo's "evergreen" franchises, and accordingly has serious legs. New copies of Brawl were selling at full price for the majority of the Wii's lifespan.
So this topic probably contains the most core of Wii U owners who play Smash but aren't necessarily huge on the competitive scene. From that we can extrapolate a, not necessarily accurate but more accurate than you'd get on, say, Smashboards, estimate of the percentage of people who would actually be interested in this game. If anything you'd have to adjust downwards.
That being the case, how many of you would, for sure, buy this game if it released physically for, say, $30?
If not, would you buy it for $20 digitally?
Me personally, it's a no.
That being the case, how many of you would, for sure, buy this game if it released physically for, say, $30?
If not, would you buy it for $20 digitally?
Me personally, it's a no.
they can do a rebalance as well as giving us access to the original version
that would be the best cast scenario imo
if they royally fuck it up we can just keep playing the original, but on lcd monitors
Add another option where you can turn on/off hundreds of character balance changes.
for example: fox up smash nerf on/off etc...
(like the item screen but a lot bigger
)BassForever
Member
If they remastered it most of the things people like about Melee would be fixed out of it. Why bother remastering an old fighting game when they're selling dlc for the newest one?
SatoAilDarko
Member
There is no way they sell this for $20 when they sell digital Wii games at that price.
This would absolutely be a $50 product.
A remastered online Melee just splits the community and Nintendo wants people to play Smash 4 because they sell DLC for it.
Someone who plays both may not want to keep up with Smash 4 because of the character and stage DLC while Melee will always stay the same.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I don't see what the point in that would be, too much work for too little return. They would be better off just developing Smash 5 based on Melee as opposed to Brawl/Smash 4.
But that's even less likely than a Melee remaster unless Sakurai isn't involved.
It wouldn't have any impact on the community, it's already split.
I don't care about thing, why do other people? Those people shouldn't like thing, they should like what I like!
I think Nintendo needs to start embracing the competitive community, because the way things are going, esports/competitive gaming is getting more and more popular.
They're sort of doing that now, but they need to do more. Smash Bros has it's casual numbers locked up. There's nothing the games can do to make those numbers significantly bigger. How much each new smash sells will depend on the hardware instal base. People love the games whether they are in melee's style or not. And the numbers probably won't get significantly smaller either. Nothing about melee was intimidating for casual players. So now it's time to get with the competitive community to make the game bigger with them (even though it's pretty good, could still be better), because that's the future.
So I say yes, they should. They've got two games that a good number of people really care about. They're not splitting any userbase, because the players are already playing both games. Both games are already represented at tournaments like EVO. Nintendo should take advantage of the fact that 2 variations of their series are loved so much by the community. Nintendo needs to continue supporting Smash 4 with patches and other such things, and sponsoring tournaments, helping the game get even bigger, and hopefully release a port for NX. Then whenever Smash 5 comes out, they just need to follow Smash 4's example, and just keeping making that style of smash better and better. They also need to say, "Hey, we love how much you guys care about melee. Keeping our game alive for so many years shows a lot of dedication. As thanks for your dedication, we're going to make it easier for you to enjoy Melee." And they should make a remake of it, and milk the fact that there are two large groups that care about their games and are giving their games such a large presence at major tournaments. They need to make both communities bigger and better than they've ever been, basically. Now, you don't need to make a melee remaster to do that, but I do think that's a pretty easy, low risk way of extending a hand to the competitive community, get good press, and set themselves up for a good position when new games come out.
They're sort of doing that now, but they need to do more. Smash Bros has it's casual numbers locked up. There's nothing the games can do to make those numbers significantly bigger. How much each new smash sells will depend on the hardware instal base. People love the games whether they are in melee's style or not. And the numbers probably won't get significantly smaller either. Nothing about melee was intimidating for casual players. So now it's time to get with the competitive community to make the game bigger with them (even though it's pretty good, could still be better), because that's the future.
So I say yes, they should. They've got two games that a good number of people really care about. They're not splitting any userbase, because the players are already playing both games. Both games are already represented at tournaments like EVO. Nintendo should take advantage of the fact that 2 variations of their series are loved so much by the community. Nintendo needs to continue supporting Smash 4 with patches and other such things, and sponsoring tournaments, helping the game get even bigger, and hopefully release a port for NX. Then whenever Smash 5 comes out, they just need to follow Smash 4's example, and just keeping making that style of smash better and better. They also need to say, "Hey, we love how much you guys care about melee. Keeping our game alive for so many years shows a lot of dedication. As thanks for your dedication, we're going to make it easier for you to enjoy Melee." And they should make a remake of it, and milk the fact that there are two large groups that care about their games and are giving their games such a large presence at major tournaments. They need to make both communities bigger and better than they've ever been, basically. Now, you don't need to make a melee remaster to do that, but I do think that's a pretty easy, low risk way of extending a hand to the competitive community, get good press, and set themselves up for a good position when new games come out.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Yes! Remaster the game and release it with this cover.
Nah seriously. Melee is a relic compared to Smash Bros 4. Just leave it in the past alongside those niche hardcore fans who refuse to accept anything new.
I really feel like people are strawmanning the big bad niche hardcore fans. Do some of those people exit? I guess...but they wouldn't make up the majority of the audience interested in this. Again, Melee was the best selling GameCube game and plenty of people would like to play it again in some fashion on their current consoles.
SolarPowered
Member
Man, you not-Melee Smash fans are insane. People in here are seriously arguing that the audience for such a remake is miniscule, that the remake would sell terribly, that the base would be split by Melee HD and Melee fans wouldn't buy the game if it were altered in any shape or form when all of these things have been proven wrong by precedent alone. The audience for Melee HD would be at least twice as large as that of Windwaker HD (7 million copies sold on GC versus WW's 3 million) and Wind Waker HD already sold over 1.5 million copies which means Melee HD's roof could be as high as 3 million copies even on Nintendo's worst selling console. The base splitting nonsense is just that as well. Street Fighter IV was not hurt in the least by 3SOE/SF2HD Remix and Marvel vs Capcom 3 was not phased by MvC2 HD Remix at all either. The argument about slight changes killing sales is faulty as well considering how well Wind Waker HD and Resident Evil HD have sold. Things will be just fine so long as Nintendo doesn't try to do any silly balancing and even better if this Melee HD were an NX title where they'd start on fresh hardware that people actually want to buy.
This thread is nothing but Melee haters talking out of their asses.
This thread is nothing but Melee haters talking out of their asses.
paragonpro
Banned
I wish, im honestly not a huge fan of 4 and didnt get intonit the sameway i got into melee.
No no no no no no no
This is what I hate about Melee fanboys, they feel like the game is so vastly superior to other Smash games and that is deserves special treatment just because of it's competitive scene. We get it, Melee is a really damn good game but it doesn't need any bells or whistles.
Melee is a wonderful game on it's own. It doesn't need a remaster or a remake, it doesn't need anything except it's dedicated playerbase. More people will appreciate Melee as soon as the fanboys stop promoting the "Melee fans are elitist they only want to play Melee HD or Melee 2" stigma.
This is what I hate about Melee fanboys, they feel like the game is so vastly superior to other Smash games and that is deserves special treatment just because of it's competitive scene. We get it, Melee is a really damn good game but it doesn't need any bells or whistles.
Melee is a wonderful game on it's own. It doesn't need a remaster or a remake, it doesn't need anything except it's dedicated playerbase. More people will appreciate Melee as soon as the fanboys stop promoting the "Melee fans are elitist they only want to play Melee HD or Melee 2" stigma.
Guest12345678
Member
Yes but my argument is that given the limited npd and mediacreate data we have now, the opportunity cost would favor a melee remake. To use the cod example, new cods probably cannibalize old cod sales.
Trying to extrapolate from this thread is a waste of time, the sample size and bias is to large.
Solid Samus
Banned
Please, tell us what else 'we' think
People who irrationally hate the Melee competitive scene have been working far harder at promoting that stigma than anyone else for quite some time now.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
They should but sneak in tripping out of spite.
Realistically an HD remaster of all three games with online-enabled would be great. Plus it'd give Nintendo a direct look into which games (and to further break things down, which characters/stages) get played the most.
Realistically an HD remaster of all three games with online-enabled would be great. Plus it'd give Nintendo a direct look into which games (and to further break things down, which characters/stages) get played the most.
Being a GCN game it's hard to get a physical copy onowadays. I'm not a competitive player either but I can understand the desire of wanting it to be easier to buy nowadays, especially when in comparison Brawl is still in circulation since it was such a huge Wii game and SSB64 is similarly easy to get a hold of.
Don't speak for anyone else here, but to me a Melee HD remaster isn't appealing in the slightest because I've been already playing that for like 4 years
If Nintendo wanted me to buy Melee again they'd have to do more than increase the resolution and slap an online mode on it. That's already an old hat.
Remake or GTFO
Sure. "We" think that things would be better if the hardcore Melee fans stopped shoving the game down our throats and let us appreciate it without having to disregard other Smash games for not being like it.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I thought sales-wise Brawl and Smash 4 were bigger than Melee and it was the tournament/competitive scene that kept Melee in the limelight for so long?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/3dwx4z/evo_2015_finals_twitchtv_peak_viewer_counts_stats/
http://shoryuken.com/2015/07/01/evo...released-see-where-your-favorite-game-stands/
EVO is the biggest Fighting game tournament in the world, right?
Edit: Ah, you go by sales only? In that case it should number 4 behind Brawl and 4 (3DS+WiiU) atm.
Guest12345678
Member
Entrants at evo and subsequent tournaments. Only smash 4 was bigger at evo, but I don't think its entrants have been as strong since. Just search up evo and tbh5 numbers and compare it to any other tournament number and it should be easy.
Melee was incredibly popular for its time, one of the best selling games of the gen. Given the difference in install base for each release the difference in sales don't mean as much.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Don't speak for anyone else here, but to me a Melee HD remaster isn't appealing in the slightest because I've been already playing that for like 4 years
If Nintendo wanted me to buy Melee again they'd have to do more than increase the resolution and slap an online mode on it. That's already an old hat.
Remake or GTFO
It comes down to budget. A remaster, even with some extras or enhancements, would be cheap and fast. A remake like you are suggesting is basically a new Smash game and is going to require a hell of a lot more resources, and sales to support that.
I'm not in the camp thinks Melee HD would sell extremely well. I think well thought out, good remaster would sell more than well enough to cover the cost involved, but not well enough to cover costs for a full blown remake, or expanding the roster to include Brawl and Smash 4 characters, and all that stuff. Save that for a new game based on Melee.
Being the highest selling and one of the highest rated games on the Gamecube might have had something to do with that too.
Because that's not a biased sales figure at all given the Wii's sales?
Best bet would be to go by a mix of attach ratio and online population, then, look at the size of Smash 4 and Melee's competitive scenes to find people who might by character DLC for the "new" version if multiple versions happen, like has been suggested.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
It is, but people act like Melee has 100 players and they aren't worth catering to. Other companies would kill to have the grassroots support and player base of competitive Melee, but people in threads like this completely write the scene off as worthless.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
The GCN has been dead for nearly a decade though. It's the competitive/tourney scene keeping that game's name relevant for so long, not just it being successful on an unsuccessful system.
Well yeah I get your reasoning and it isn't wrong (except I think a remaster using 4's engine would definitely turn a profit in the end) but my posts are about what Nnitendo would have to get me to buy Melee again.
Guest12345678
Member
Gamecube maybe dead, but ... THE LOVE FOR ITS GAMES ENDURE!!!.
See demand for windwaker Hd.
Tye The Czar
Member
This is wishful thinking, but I just want to see Nintendo legitimize Project M by porting it entirely to the Wii U and compensating the dev team.
SolarPowered
Member
Melee sold over 7 million copies on an install base of 22 million without online multiplayer, digital sales or DLC. Brawl sold 12.77 million on an install base of 100 million with online multiplayer (if you call whatever that was online). Smash 4 sales are currently around 10.87 million between two platforms that make up a total of 65 million (ish?) using online multiplayer, digital sales and downloadable content. All three of them did very well for their times. Melee is no slouch for pulling those numbers without any of the modern advantages Brawl/4 enjoyed and even today still draws as many tournament players as any of the modern Smash titles. They're all impressive even if Brawl isn't my cup of tea.
It would be nice, but they have a new game they're also working on from the ground up if you're interested in a competitive scene that won't be chained to the shadows.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Melee draws in more. EVO is the only major/supermajor I'm aware of that had a bigger player base for Smash 4. TBH5 was last weekend and that had over twice as many Melee players as Smash 4 (like 1300 vs 500). Genesis 3 is the next Smash supermajor and is also looking like it's going to have a similarly wide split based on early registration numbers.
Edit: Looks like Smash Con is a second tournament that had more Smash 4 players.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Nope.
Let it be.
Let it be.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
They have different playerbases and pull in pretty even numbers at tournaments. 4 is not going to replace it.
I agree with this. The people who are still obsessed with GameCube Melee will always be obsessed with GameCube Melee, and absolutely nothing else will ever be good enough.
Those who aren't still obsessed with Melee are happily playing Smash 4.
Acerac
Banned
That's a horrible idea; why would anyone want to cater to the Melee crowd? They don't buy new products, they're still using CRT TVs.
Besides, there's no money to be made in uprezzing old games. This gen has proven that pretty thoroughly I feel.
*Edit*
No but seriously the hate for Melee at this point is fucking strange. I prefer to play Sm4sh myself, but it's completely understandable that somebody would prefer Melee's mechanics. When you act like Melee players are all just afraid of change you're showing yourself to be pretty ignorant.
Besides, there's no money to be made in uprezzing old games. This gen has proven that pretty thoroughly I feel.
*Edit*
No but seriously the hate for Melee at this point is fucking strange. I prefer to play Sm4sh myself, but it's completely understandable that somebody would prefer Melee's mechanics. When you act like Melee players are all just afraid of change you're showing yourself to be pretty ignorant.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
My point is more Melee isn't a bigger game than Brawl/4 like a few posters in this thread are suggesting, even if the former's numbers are more impressive when you take into account how new the series was and the GCN's overall failure userbase-wise.
I've never argued against how huge it was in the GCN-era or still is in the tourney scene, just bringing up Melee's numbers to talk down Brawl/4's popularity feels weird when the numbers aren't really in Melee's favor in the first place. Again, its relevance nowadays is due to how strong its tourney scene is. Is that really a slam against the game?
I'd settle for them legitimizing Project M by promising to not go after streamers.