Sooooo...
I demand all games do not have difficulty choices because muh games?
or
I demand all games have easy mode for me because muh games?
-
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Should there be a "tourist-mode"/totally easy option for all games?
- Thread starter Chairmanchuck
- Start date
Sooooo...
I demand all games do not have difficulty choices because muh games?
or
I demand all games have easy mode for me because muh games?
There seems to be one series for people that like challenging games. Given how much Dark Souls gets mentioned. People like you are like "No, you can't even have that one series. All games must be dumbed down! Hahahaha!"
NoctisVsStar
Member
Capcom is taking the dumbed down route to an extreme tho
I know this is supposed to be a "Im so smart lolol" post but
Only one group is asking the developers to go against their vision for the games they make
Hint: Its not the people saying that there shouldnt be difficulties in Souls
E_Darkness
Member
Not all games should have it, but it should be an option in others.
terrdactycalsrock
Member
No, every game is different and the mechanics should be representative of that. For example, it wouldnt make much sense to have this in a game that was based around its combat. Story focused games would benifit from this though. I know theres some adventure games with this kind of setting. So yeah, If the game lends itself to having a mode like this sure.
Maxey
Member
This is the root of my argument.
Sure, you could make a Dark Souls game with an easy mode that just lets you curbstomp your way to the end but you should also know that playing the game like that is not what the game was intended to be like. Have a big text box appear when you choose it saying something like this:
"You chose to play Dark Souls IV in easy difficulty. This mode is intended for players who want to play the game with minimal challenge and is not meant to represent the way the game was originally designed as. If this is how you want to play then select Accept to proceed, otherwise select Cancel and play the game in normal difficulty for the intended Dark Souls experience."
Wesley-Sigma
Member
No.
The Salt Life
Banned
I'm ok with sacrificing trophy's and gamerscore.
Listen, it's not even that demonsouls/bloodborne is insanely difficult. It's just I don't feel like one mistake = death is enjoyable at all.
I've been through Ninja Gaiden Black, I enjoy difficult games, I just don't enjoy tedious games.
Mr_Appleby
Member
Should there be a grade 3 reading level for all books?
E_Darkness
Member
Yes. Give me War and Peace with pictures please so I can enjoy it.
Mr_Appleby
Member
Again, the premise of the thread is whether all developers have an obligation to make an easy mode for all games.
Why are you demanding that a medium be made exactly as you see fit?
More generally, what does an easy mode look like for everybody? Just steering around the map? What about those with limited manual dexterity? Should they have an ocassionally push x or speak into the mic mode? If this is really about accessibility, should all games offer descriptive audio? If not, why not?
anniestarheart
Neo Member
Not an expert, but I would guess the answer would be something like "to prevent the player to change equipment and item-spamming to solve every diferent situation". It would be easyer to find an enemy with a very concrete weakness, pause the game, change my weapon to his weakness, use X item that buffs my weapon with that weakness too, destroy the enemy, pause, reequip my normal gear till next hard enemy appears". It's the way the game forces the player to have a specific build with specific weapons. If you could pause the game people would stack every stat possible and swap gear/equipment at need. But that's my theory of why this happens
theres an obvious fix here to simply not allow pausing when engaged in combat...
InterMusketeer
Member
No, not every game should have it. I think there's plenty of games where it could work though. I think the original purpose of a game, where the player challenges themselves to overcome any obstacle put before them, is lost in the process though.
I do think that what's getting to people is that Dark Souls (post the first one, blind) isn't that hard. Jank, confusing, and at times BS, sure. But folks here can probably name games that are cerebral and/or RNG as fuck, and that make Dark Souls look like an experience fit only for everyone's Facebook-loving grandma.
Modern AA and AAA games seem to have become progressively easier over the years (often it's just a by-product of improving things like control and mechanical responsiveness, pacing, clarity of systems and direction, etc.), but at times it's to the point where it's arguably detrimental for anyone looking for well, meaningful interaction.
In a video game.
Whose primary strength over other entertainment mediums involves... meaningful interaction.
I remember when we started seeing games where the "Easy" difficulty was renamed "Normal" and the "Normal" difficulty was renamed "Veteran", and there were more difficulty levels below "Normal" than above it. Some titles (like RotTR which I keep ragging on because I did quite enjoy TR2013 enough to replay it a few times) don't have anything BUT a selection of easy difficulties, since the lack of challenge is heavily and intentionally baked into the core experience.
Modern AA and AAA games seem to have become progressively easier over the years (often it's just a by-product of improving things like control and mechanical responsiveness, pacing, clarity of systems and direction, etc.), but at times it's to the point where it's arguably detrimental for anyone looking for well, meaningful interaction.
In a video game.
Whose primary strength over other entertainment mediums involves... meaningful interaction.
I remember when we started seeing games where the "Easy" difficulty was renamed "Normal" and the "Normal" difficulty was renamed "Veteran", and there were more difficulty levels below "Normal" than above it. Some titles (like RotTR which I keep ragging on because I did quite enjoy TR2013 enough to replay it a few times) don't have anything BUT a selection of easy difficulties, since the lack of challenge is heavily and intentionally baked into the core experience.
Yeah.
And given that, again in most cases, this is rooted in taste, would it be reasonable to ask that all games include modes that fit the tastes of those that want mechanical challenge? Of course not.
For any game that can support it, yeah. If it's a game where you're supposed to take your character online too, the "tourist mode" character would probably have to be limited to offline though since people could exploit that. Otherwise though, I don't even care for the people who want to get home and relax, but rather the people with accessibility issues (both body or mental). They have a very limited catalog of games they can play, so the more the better.
Someone with a disability is "choosing not to play?" That's what I was getting at with mentioning accessibility options.
Maxey
Member
I think accessibility options should be a different discussion from general difficulty.
People with disabilities should have options to make games easier to play for them depending on their specific difficulties. That's one thing.
Another thing is discussing the option of adding a cakewalk difficulty for people with otherwise no disabilities who simply can't handle a game's difficulty or have no time or patience to learn the nuances of the gameplay and simply want to complete it without much or no challenge at all.
I'm fine with either, more so the former, but I think the subject of author intent should also be considered and discussed.
I wouldn't use it, but I don't see a problem with it. If people want to face roll through the game let them.
I would just continue to play whatever the standard difficulty is for most games. Just difficult enough that I have to be paying attention and playing reasonably well, but nothing too punishing. I don't have time to replay stuff over and over again, with a few exceptions here and there.
I would just continue to play whatever the standard difficulty is for most games. Just difficult enough that I have to be paying attention and playing reasonably well, but nothing too punishing. I don't have time to replay stuff over and over again, with a few exceptions here and there.
MetaCircular
Member
Why do people care so much what the developer 'intended'?
I'm the one who has to play the damn game. I have no problem modding the shit out of it to make it enjoyable (e.g., removing weapon degradation and encumbrance in certain rpgs).
Of course, developers are under absolutely no obligation to make said modding easy for me. That said, I do miss cheats and developer consoles.
I'm the one who has to play the damn game. I have no problem modding the shit out of it to make it enjoyable (e.g., removing weapon degradation and encumbrance in certain rpgs).
Of course, developers are under absolutely no obligation to make said modding easy for me. That said, I do miss cheats and developer consoles.
texhnolyze
Banned
This. It's literally an option, not sure why people are so offended by the presence of options.
Raonak
Banned
Honestly, yes.
Games should offer a you cant die mode, maybe put a timer, so you have to wait 30s before respawn or something. The popularity of lets plays shows theres a market for people who just wanna experience the game without having to get good.
But dev budgets are limited, so its not really fesible in all games.
Games should offer a you cant die mode, maybe put a timer, so you have to wait 30s before respawn or something. The popularity of lets plays shows theres a market for people who just wanna experience the game without having to get good.
But dev budgets are limited, so its not really fesible in all games.
Maybe? Does their disability directly impede their ability to play a difficult game, or is that something that could easily be solved by a more accommodating button layout/controller? The OP of this thread is more about difficulty than general accessibility, which is why I responded as such.
LordKasual
Banned
But this is everyone's experience playing Soulsborne, gamer or not. The game molds you into the player you have to be to win. MOST action games don't ask you to calculate your swings like Souls does.
The difference though is that some people (casual gamers) have a much lower tolerance for having their progress kicked down a hill the first time they make a mistake. That's really the only difference. You just dampen the punishing aspect of the game. The learning still takes place. You just lose less momentum with each failure. That's it.
Souls probably wouldn't be a very fun game if it was braindead easy. Most games aren't. But in an easy mode done correctly, it would ideally still be "Souls-level difficult". Just one that's manageable to someone with less meta skill in gaming.
breadtruck
Member
No, watch a stream if you dont want to play
Hmm, actually, maybe I was wrong. I forgot about kiddos, haha
NoctisVsStar
Member
Nah, I can't co-sign this. There's specific Tailor made experiences for people of all ages.. all games shouldn't have this.
I'm talking about difficulty not accessibility for people with disabilities inb4 i get accused.
RoninChaos
Member
I think you guys are missing out on how having options for accessibility is never a bad thing. Especially for younger people or people with disabilities.
What if me and my friends went onto a football pitch with a soccer ball and just kicked it around "pointlessly" and without any regard for the Official FIFA Rules? Oh noes!
Neither you nor the author gets to define what kind of play is meaningful for anyone else. The author can set parameters and make suggestions but that doesn't invalidate someone else's experience when they decide to ignore those rules.
Japanmanx3
Member
No. Especially if it can be openly reviewed because of stated easier-easy mode.
Not all games need to conform to everyone's circumstance or situation​. I'd the developer decides to make it hard without a pause menu, that's their prerogative.
Not all games need to conform to everyone's circumstance or situation​. I'd the developer decides to make it hard without a pause menu, that's their prerogative.
I don't think there is any should operative here. You can make games for different markets and with different artistic objectives. There is no need to go broad audience, widely accommodating. No commercial need and no artistic need.
This is not to say opening your product up to a wider audience is a bad or dumb thing. Sure, go for it and it can reap great benefits. It is just to say there is no "should" operative here.
This is not to say opening your product up to a wider audience is a bad or dumb thing. Sure, go for it and it can reap great benefits. It is just to say there is no "should" operative here.
always crazy bacon
Banned
Doom had a God mode and it was a lot of fun. I think that's what the OP is asking and not for a game to have an auto play mode.
It's an option for other people, you don't need to select it and it's existence takes nothing away from your experience. These reactions are just like core Street Fighter V fans saying it does not need and arcade mode. SMH.
It's an option for other people, you don't need to select it and it's existence takes nothing away from your experience. These reactions are just like core Street Fighter V fans saying it does not need and arcade mode. SMH.
LordKasual
Banned
Well, yeah, but these threads rarely ever take the grey path
in the case of difficulty settings, I always say it's significantly easier to do an "easy mode" correctly than it is to do a "hard mode".
nailbombxx
Member
Would you complain about Finnegan's Wake being too hard to understand when all you really want is an easy beach read at the moment? No. You'd read a book that isn't Finnegan's Wake.
People who haven't finished a Souls game don't know how it feels kinda like... A brotherhood. When you make a new friend who has also finished the same Soulsborne game(s) as you, it's like swapping war stories with another vet. Even if somebody has the guts to admit they tried but couldn't finish a game, you can respect that they at least have the courage to admit it.
I totally get why some people are super defensive about an easy mode for Soulsborne.
I totally get why some people are super defensive about an easy mode for Soulsborne.
Maxey
Member
Fair enough but I feel that your angle comes more from a side of wanting to be able to do those things for the sake of being able to, rather than needing a very easy mode so that you can enjoy the game without the challenge/frustration.
I don't think the OP is suggesting this as a means to allow someone to say they beat a game or claim some accomplishment.
Simply a way to take in and see what the developers have created.
What's funny is that nobody talked about "participation trophies" when just about every game a couple decades ago had a god mode cheat code. Or unlimited lives. Or ammo. I don't remember anybody complaining about games having cheat codes. Don't want to use them, you don't have to.
Your problem is that you think there's a wrong way to play a game. Talk about some elitist try hard crap.
Should there be an audio version of all books? The author intended for people to read the words off of a page, by listening to someone read the book to you you are bastardizing the authors intent.
This shit is so dumb. Getting mad at an optional option is fucking dumb.
Should Ulysses be written in "normal" straightforward manner because people could find it confusing? How a game is played can be the very heart of the game just as much how a novel is written is the heart of that medium.
The idea that its somehow wrong for a piece of work to aim at a committed audience wiling to put the work in need to understand and engage with it hurts my damn soul.
The idea that its somehow wrong for a piece of work to aim at a committed audience wiling to put the work in need to understand and engage with it hurts my damn soul.
Sure, but the question is SHOULD there always be that option. Like is it right or wrong for it be there. I mean if there is no audiobook for Lolita I wouldn't consider that wrongdoing (there probably is an audiobook version of that book). Although audiobooks and books aren't really a close enough analogy. That's more along the lines of "Should every book be read to you by your mother or should you read it yourself" haha.
NoctisVsStar
Member
I still got all the videos from my first playthrough of BB complete run with all the bosses.. I look back fondly at them. Here's my first boss kill BB was my first souls game:
https://youtu.be/HdZTO_KTxiA
Died like 10 times or more.. Ludwig I died more than 20 times.
No, playing Dark Souls is not like being a veteran of a war.
I can't believe I just had to type that sentence.
The lack of an easy mode (or more specifically, making the default mode too difficult) certainly hurt Rain World and Shiness when it came to reviews. At least Rain World is adding some options soon. Rain World's difficulty at launch was more like what you'd expect from another game's challenge mode.
For Shiness, I think the big problem is that being stun-locked too much in a single player game is a tedious kind of difficulty. The timing on the parries required to get out of combos was pretty tight, and add to that the fact that parries consume a bar that you had to wait to recharge.... things can turn into a chore quickly. I think they would have been better off making things more forgiving in the default mode and moving those elements into a hard mode.
For Shiness, I think the big problem is that being stun-locked too much in a single player game is a tedious kind of difficulty. The timing on the parries required to get out of combos was pretty tight, and add to that the fact that parries consume a bar that you had to wait to recharge.... things can turn into a chore quickly. I think they would have been better off making things more forgiving in the default mode and moving those elements into a hard mode.
Randy Monk
Member
I'm glad the Soulsborne games didn't have difficulty options because I am made of weak sauce and would've succumbed to it at some point.
Looking back, the journey of despair and anger at the beginning of Dark Souls and Bloodborne to the joy and elation of defeating Artorias and Orphan of Kos would not have been possible for ME because like I said, my will is pretty weak and I would have enabled "Tourist" mode way earlier, probably at Capra Demon and Father G.
Looking back, the journey of despair and anger at the beginning of Dark Souls and Bloodborne to the joy and elation of defeating Artorias and Orphan of Kos would not have been possible for ME because like I said, my will is pretty weak and I would have enabled "Tourist" mode way earlier, probably at Capra Demon and Father G.