Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

seat

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Oct 15, 2006
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Depends on how much the propaganda is shoved down your throat. I'm playing the game now and have yet to witness any ideas that are more controversial than the majority of popular games. Nothing about homosexuality.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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TheExodu5 said:
Pretty much.

And as much as I disagree with their viewpoint, the anti-gay marriage lobbyists do have a right to campaign. You live in a democratic country, better get used to it.

(note: I'm in Canada, so this doesn't really effect me regardless)
...and people have a right to boycott anti-gay marriage institutions.

I am not sure where anyone is saying "No, shut them up and throw them in prison"?
 

Stumpokapow

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May 21, 2006
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seat said:
Depends on how much the propaganda is shoved down your throat. I'm playing the game now and have yet to witness any ideas that are more controversial than the majority of popular games. Nothing about homosexuality.
Yeah, I'm half-way through and so far the plot is "Terrorist group assassinates vice president, dude goes spelunking with girlfriend and she gets kidnapped by said group, and you overhear some bad dudes talking about how they want the public to think they're freedom fighters" so if your objection is going to be based on in-game content, you're in the clear.
 

Psychotext

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I keep my gaming and my political / personal opinions separate. Therefore this kind of thing doesn't get in the way of me playing an excellent game.
 

Coins

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duckroll said:
Discussed this with Dragona, I'm reopening the thread for discussion, but I'll like to state that the discussion should be corrected to indicate the actual background of the "Empire" series and it's origins. As well as Chair Entertainment's relationship with Card and how it reflects on their ideology.
The Gaygamer article points out the involvement if Card.

By his own admission, Card didn't have a lot to do with the day-to-day of the game itself: it's is set in the same universe as his novel Empire and uses a few of the same characters, and takes place before the events of the book.
He will be receiving money from this game.

People say he is one of many people that created the game, yes thats true. If a cameraman on the set of a movie I enjoyed was extremely homophobic, then I wouldnt think twice probably. My thought process lied in the fact that he created this world.

I just want people to be aware of what Card stands for and if possible if and when you buy the game to give a donation to a cause opposite of his own. I myself just chose to boycott it. Thats all.
 

webrunner

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Jan 19, 2007
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It's weird, Empire is supposed to be about evil Liberals..

But the bad guys in Shadow Complex seem to be larely radical right-wingers to the point of basically being Nazis with facemasks.
 

Visualante

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Mar 3, 2007
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This guy is going to say and do whatever he wants, irrespective of whether you buy this game. You're not furthering his platform for hate in any tangible way. As such I say you shouldn't feel guilty for buying the game.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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Dragona Akehi said:
While I realise that Card wrote the novels because Chair Entertainment asked him to, I personally am not going to be purchasing Shadow Complex. If I knew that the person I licenced my world to in order to have him write novels for me essentially funded Prop 8, I'd be hightailing it out of there and cutting any ties with him.
Yeah, pretty much.

If Glenn Beck made the best video game ever, I don't think I'd be buying it.
 

Psy-Phi

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Jan 12, 2008
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I'm boycotting it....until it releases on Windows. Yet another game I would want an X360 for but thanks to MS, I won't have to :p, Halo3 and Dead Rising remain the only two games I want an X360 for.

Never knew Card was a homophobe. Don't really care though. Love his novels/books. His opinion doesn't influence my own. And he's not exactly in a position of power to dictate anything.
 
Nov 16, 2007
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Card may have beliefs that I don't personally agree with, but he's probably one of the best authors of the past 50 years. You need to be able to find a separation between the artist and the art.
 

beelzebozo

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maybe in a universe where there's more than one great METROID-style adventure game every three years.
 

Undeux

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It's unfortunate that it's associated with Card, but since the game itself doesn't espouse his views and is only kind of loosely related to him, it's hard for me to really consider boycotting it on that principle. I wish bankruptcy on the guy, but this would only hurt a development studio that did a good job on a fun game.

KuwabaraTheMan said:
Card may have beliefs that I don't personally agree with, but he's probably one of the best authors of the past 50 years. You need to be able to find a separation between the artist and the art.
Normally I'd agree with you that we should separate the artist from the art, except for the fact that he acts on his beliefs with the money he makes. I and many others don't want to give money to fund bigotry.
 

duckroll

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ShockingAlberto said:
I doubt it reflects Chair's ideology at all. While they probably were not unaware of Chair's views and rants, but he is also a popular author among a certain set of people.

If I knew, for example, a klan member was working on a game, I probably wouldn't buy it. But that's just me, not everyone has those same principles.
The thing is, Card's relationship with the founders of Chair date back to Advent Rising days. He's not some random guy they were fans of, but someone they have described as a friend in interviews. As such, if they were friends with a Klan member, I think that is substantially different from a Klan member who happened to be working on a game.

I can understand why this is a hot topic and some people are upset greatly by it, but I hope that what we generate here is actual discussion that is meaningful. I personally hope this doesn't turn into some war between people who hate Card and fans of the game itself.
 
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Visualante said:
This guy is going to say and do whatever he wants, irrespective of whether you buy this game. You're not furthering his platform for hate in any tangible way. As such I say you shouldn't feel guilty for buying the game.
You are, in a very direct way, giving him the money he uses to fund his agenda, though.

You are also giving money to many other people, in fairness. It's a shame that one person has to taint it for everyone in my mind.
 

Scuba Steve

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You just sold me on this game OP!

How does that feel!? mwuahahahaha

I'm also going to recommend it to everyone I know

MWUAHAHAHA
 

Lee N

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TheExodu5 said:
Those are his views. Just because he doesn't share the same views on gay marriages as I do, does not mean he does not deserve to earn a living. He's not making his money off Shadow Complex for his anti gay-marriage stance.
Well said.

As much as I think it's unfortunate, it really is his prerogative. Being a homophobe isn't the same thing as beating up people in the LGBT community.
 

Natakuu

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Jul 9, 2009
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Why would you punish all the people who worked hard on the project simply because of that? Yes, his stance on the matter as well as the horrible things he said are wrong, but don't punish all the other people for that. Whether we like it or not he has the right to his opinion, as long as it doesn't cross the line and become a matter for the law.. Simply put, as you said he had little to do with the game, using this as a way to get to him will be ineffective. That's just how I see it I guess, if you feel more comfortable not supporting him then I can understand, this just doesn't seem like the best way to do so.
 

X26

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Mar 12, 2006
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Oh well. To be honest if hitler himself programmed tetris I'd play it anyways let alone this just because card is bit of a whackjob in regards to the gay community
 
ShockingAlberto said:
I doubt it reflects Chair's ideology at all. While they probably were not unaware of Chair's views and rants, but he is also a popular author among a certain set of people.
I was under the impression the Chair Entertainment principle figures were also Mormon. The Chair folks and Card are ongoing collaborators, I do not believe this is a case of Chair already existing with their concept and then going out there and soliciting Card to write a book. The whole property was co-conceived between them.

Anyway, to the people acting as if it's totally preposterous that somebody wouldn't buy something whose policies they find abhorrent--and whose published work in the exact same universe alludes to those views--can you not at least imagine somebody who finds a certain issue, like gay marriage, to be an extremely important one, and wouldn't want to support a person who publicly (as opposed to privately, which can certainly be a distinction) espouses derogatory opinions and is in a position where his thoughts on the matter are frequently solicited and distributed widely?

Surely you can imagine a scenario where you wouldn't want to support somebody for their policies. It might not be this issue, and that's completely fine, but the idea that no matter what somebody does, you'd never take it into account is kind of strange to me.
Natakuu said:
Why would you punish all the people who worked hard on the project simply because of that? Yes, his stance on the matter as well as the horrible things he said are wrong, but don't punish all the other people for that. Whether we like it or not he has the right to his opinion, as long as it doesn't cross the line and become a matter for the law.. Simply put, as you said he had little to do with the game, using this as a way to get to him will be ineffective. That's just how I see it I guess, if you feel more comfortable not supporting him then I can understand, this just doesn't seem like the best way to do so.
Choosing to not play a game isn't "punishing" somebody. Are you "punishing" the developers of every game you don't buy? If he has the right to his opinion (which he obviously does), you have just as much right not to give him money.
 

Yeef

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Dec 25, 2008
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Don't see much reason to Boycott. For one: at this point it's too late. If you were planning a boycott it'd have to have started before the game was released.

More importantly, has Card actually spent any of his money to hamper gay marriage and other issues, or is he just a man with an opinion? If he's not actually fighting it and just an outspoken critic I'd see no reason for a boycott.
 
Oct 19, 2007
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Aw snap
Whats the difference between this thread and any random Activision CEO thread where half the gaffers in it vow to stop buying activision games? Or any thread where gaffers keep calling for people to "vote with their dollars"

I'm surpirsed at the overwhelming response against the OP
 

Tiktaalik

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I wouldn't be playing Shadow Complex if the game featured the political direction of the Empire novels which it's based on. I was concerned about that issue pre-release but I've since found out that that dimension of the IP has largely been excised from the game. After playing through the first two hours or so of the game at a friends' house last night I'd say that the baddies largely seem to be GI Joeesque generic villains, which is rather funny actually.

If in future Shadow Complex titles this changes and the right wing politics of the Empire novels jump in I will not be buying those releases.
 

Kyzer

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If I were to boycott every game who's production involved someone of less than top-notch moral integrity, I'd have no games.
 

MvmntInGrn

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Dragona Akehi said:
While I realise that Card wrote the novels because Chair Entertainment asked him to, I personally am not going to be purchasing Shadow Complex. If I knew that the person I licenced my world to in order to have him write novels for me essentially funded Prop 8, I'd be hightailing it out of there and cutting any ties with him.
I don't have a 360 so there isn't much to boycott. That said this is an interesting dilemma.

If I bought it I know I would always have it in the back of my mind... even though I'm sure I have in some way contributed to something anti-homosexual in the past without knowing.

I'm the kind of person who has a hard time enjoying actors in movies and such when I heavily disagree with or dislike who they are in real life, so something like this will always irk me. My sister and stepmother really like OSC and have always tried to get me to read his books, but now I know I probably never will. :/

My mother/step mother is a lesbian by the way, so I am wondering if she has ever heard any of this.
 

kenta

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Jan 27, 2005
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I won't be boycotting it but I can respect anyone who decides to

That said, I think this thread is going to get bloody
 

derder

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Apr 3, 2007
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Wait... Wow, how did I miss this game? I thought that it was just a generic fps.

You know what? Sales +1 when i get back from class.
 

zoku88

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I wouldn't really boycott something against some of its creators. Maybe if the company as a whole were involved in something I found horrible (even then, probably not. If I were to buy a processor, it would probably be Intel.)

Yea, I don't think I'd ever really boycott anything. I buy things I want, pure and simple.
 

shuri

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Jun 8, 2004
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I don't really about about the personal belief of someone who worked on a product. He was just part of the team. The OP is trying to make it sounds like for each copy of Shadow Complex sold, the company will buy a baseball bat to be used in gay bashing by a skinhead gang. It's not the case at all.

The product has no anti-gay marriage statement in it. Boycotting the game will not affect the author much; he already got paid, but it will affect the rest of the coders, sound effects, q&a and marketing people who also worked on the title, and need good sellers to pad their resumes if they want to get more jobs in the industry.

In the future, please take on to more valid targets, this one is just futile.
 
Nov 16, 2007
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webrunner said:
It's weird, Empire is supposed to be about evil Liberals..

But the bad guys in Shadow Complex seem to be larely radical right-wingers to the point of basically being Nazis with facemasks.
Did you read Empire? While it gets criticized as being anti-democrat at first, and it may seem like that early on (uncomfortably so at points), the point of the book (at least in my interpretation) was that the radicals on both sides were just as dangerous.

It's also worth noting that Card identifies himself as a democrat, despite some of his views, so a lot of the criticism of Empire never really made sense.
 

Dragona Akehi

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Jun 5, 2004
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Chris Remo said:
I was under the impression the Chair Entertainment principle figures were also Mormon. The Chair folks and Card are ongoing collaborators, I do not believe this is a case of Chair already existing with their concept and then going out there and soliciting Card to write a book. The whole property was co-conceived between them.

Anyway, to the people acting as if it's totally preposterous that somebody wouldn't buy something whose policies they find abhorrent--and whose published work in the exact same universe alludes to those views--can you not at least imagine somebody who finds a certain issue, like gay marriage, to be an extremely important one, and wouldn't want to support a person who publicly (as opposed to privately, which can certainly be a distinction) espouses derogatory opinions and is in a position where his thoughts on the matter are frequently solicited and distributed widely?

Surely you can imagine a scenario where you wouldn't want to support somebody for their policies. It might not be this issue, and that's completely fine, but the idea that no matter what somebody does, you'd never take it into account is kind of strange to me.

Choosing to not play a game isn't "punishing" somebody. Are you "punishing" the developers of every game you don't buy? If he has the right to his opinion (which he obviously does), you have just as much right not to give him money.
Thank you for saying something more eloquently than I was able to myself.
 

Chaos Dragon

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Apr 11, 2009
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I agree 100% with Orson Scott and for that I will be buying this game next week when I get my 360. As a matter of fact knowing his stance on the subject I will support Orson Scott and buy his novels.