Should we boycott Shadow Complex?

V_Arnold

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ShockingAlberto said:
You are, in a very direct way, giving him the money he uses to fund his agenda, though.
Nope. You are, in very, very direct way, paying for a product which was created by a group of people. He is a part of this group.

You are not supporting anyone, you are not paying for anyone's view of world. You are offered a product (named: Shadow Complex) , and the price of that game is what you pay for their work on said game.

And in a normal world this should be the end of story.
 

EmCeeGramr

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I actually cringed when I first heard that Card was the one making the game's world. It looks great gameplay-wise, but his involvement makes me wonder. I don't own a 360, so it's rather irrelevant for me, but if it came to PC I'd have a problem.

It's weird, Empire is supposed to be about evil Liberals..

But the bad guys in Shadow Complex seem to be larely radical right-wingers to the point of basically being Nazis with facemasks.
To people like Card, liberals are Nazis.
 

jay

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Kyzer said:
If I were to boycott every game who's production involved someone of less than top-notch moral integrity, I'd have no games.
OSC has more influence than most developers, and that's the issue here. There are people with questionable views everywhere but when one rises to prominence they can do more harm than your run of the mill Mormon/creationist/whatever.
 

SirPenguin

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Do you have any idea how racist Japan is? It's so bad that even members of the UN have said, "Wow, Japan, that's pretty fucked up." Are you going to boycott Sony or Nintendo?

No, of course not, and for a few reasons. Firstly, it'd be batshit insane to do that, just like boycotting Shadow Complex would be. But secondly, even if you WERE trying to make a statement, it'd utterly fail given that not ALL of Japan is racist, so what's the point of boycotting products from there? Likewise, obviously Shadow Complex was made up of many individuals, some (most?) of which are not homophobic. So what's the point?

See, here's the cool thing about "freedom", and it's something people forget sometimes. People are free to be anti-something to your pro-something. To boycott a game simply because he doesn't believe in what you do goes against the very freedom people are constantly fighting for.
 

duckroll

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kenta said:
I won't be boycotting it but I can respect anyone who decides to

That said, I think this thread is going to get bloody
Yes, I've bought the game myself, and I'm enjoying it. I've expressed my thoughts on this before in the official thread, but I definitely respect anyone who personally decides to boycott it based on their opinion. That said, I think it's important to clear up the facts surrounding the game instead of blindly boycotting it because of the involvement of Card.

And yes, I think this thread will get bloody, like any thread on GAF with sensitive topics.
 
Jun 26, 2006
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Lol, looks like we got ourselves a crusader.

I will buy this game to support the dev's who should not be penalized because of the views of 1 man who had limited involvement with the project. OP should focus his anti-card agenda in a more appropriate method.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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Yeef said:
More importantly, has Card actually spent any of his money to hamper gay marriage and other issues, or is he just a man with an opinion? If he's not actually fighting it and just an outspoken critic I'd see no reason for a boycott.
He spent a lot of time and money actively campaigning for Prop 8, donating to the cause, and threatening to overthrow the government (what he insists is "the right of revolution") if gay marriage was upheld in California.

His Empire series uses the word "cleanse" when referring to his fictional civil war, with liberal terrorists taking over large metropolitan cities.
 

Shockgamer

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I'm probably going to get this game the next time I buy a points card, but...

atbigelow said:
BREAKING NEWS: Dude doesn't like some other dudes. Time to boycott the game he didn't make, thus throwing away all the hard work from the people who did make it!
Maybe those hard working people should associate with better dudes.

webrunner said:
It's weird, Empire is supposed to be about evil Liberals..

But the bad guys in Shadow Complex seem to be larely radical right-wingers to the point of basically being Nazis with facemasks.
Only in Empire land do those limp wristed, tree hugging, vegetarian, gay loving, gun hating and god denying liberals deck themselves out in Cobra gear and commit a violent insurgency.
 

V_Arnold

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jay said:
OSC has more influence that most developers, and that's the issue here. There are people with questionable views everywhere but when one rises to prominence they can do more harm than your run of the mill Mormon/creationist/whatever.
This could have been true, if it were a game in which anti-gay marriage views were expressed. So far, in the game, no one found something like this. So the influence which is said to be his influence, did not contain any part of what you are boycotting against.
 

Coins

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Yeef said:
Don't see much reason to Boycott. For one: at this point it's too late. If you were planning a boycott it'd have to have started before the game was released.

More importantly, has Card actually spent any of his money to hamper gay marriage and other issues, or is he just a man with an opinion? If he's not actually fighting it and just an outspoken critic I'd see no reason for a boycott.
Card gave a huge effort to see that the gay marriage vote went the way it did in California. He sits on a board of a group called the National Organization for Marriage which is basically a group that forms strategies on how to keep marriage for heteros only. He posted this on his blog.

How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
 

Vinci

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Oct 12, 2007
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Dear lord, one has to wonder how you've managed to read books, play games, watch movies, and listen to music all your life without once enjoying something that was created by someone with political and moral perspectives contrary to yours.

You've lived a sheltered life.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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V_Arnold said:
Nope. You are, in very, very direct way, paying for a product which was created by a group of people. He is a part of this group.

You are not supporting anyone, you are not paying for anyone's view of world. You are offered a product (named: Shadow Complex) , and the price of that game is what you pay for their work on said game.

And in a normal world this should be the end of story.
Really?

So the product is entirely separate from the creators? Really?
 

Natakuu

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Chris Remo said:
Choosing to not play a game isn't "punishing" somebody. Are you "punishing" the developers of every game you don't buy? If he has the right to his opinion (which he obviously does), you have just as much right not to give him money.
I know you have the right to, I agreed that if someone felt more comfortable doing that it's fine.. I say it's punishing in this scenario because if you planned on buying the game, which in turn would support the company and all of the employees, but didn't buy it because of one person you'd be taking away a sale or 'punishing' them. I don't mean it in the literal sense of punishing of course. The chances that in ANY company there will be someone earning a profit who happens to be homophobic. That's not a good thing, but it can't really be helped.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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V_Arnold said:
This could have been true, if it were a game in which anti-gay marriage views were expressed. So far, in the game, no one found something like this. So the influence which is said to be his influence, did not contain any part of what you are boycotting against.
Prove to me he's not getting paid for any involvement on Shadow Complex and you've got yourself a case.
 

MvmntInGrn

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joelseph said:
What is wrong with showing the OP a little respect? So many assholes up in this thread.
I know, its petty sad. There is very little discussion going on in this discussion board thread.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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There's a thousand and one games one can use to waste time. While some might empirically better than others, entertainment is entertainment. If you can make do with something else to occupy your time with while feeling morally superior, why the fuck not? You aren't going to suffer for having not played whatever videogame.

Also I find it really questionable that Card was actually sought out for developing this franchise. It's not like they made use of some property of his to better the game, they actually thought that it would be best to bring aboard this... well, asshole. It brings up questions on exactly how much the actual developers support him themselves, giving even more reason to avoid the game.
 

Drinky Crow

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personally, i want to see card and his toxic, hateful opinions drummed out of public memory, so boycotting works great for me. chair is a utah-based company who chose to employ card, and i feel no distress at depriving them of my meager contribution given their stupid decision.
 

Kosma

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I hope the people not buying this also check in which countries their clothes are made and in what conditions, same for electronics etc.

I mean if you pretend to be some consumer with a consience then do it right.

Otherwise it reeks of hypocrisy.
 

FlyinJ

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Sep 22, 2005
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lawblob said:
This means that 90% of the people at Chair are likely Mormon.
Exactly. Thus the association with Card. And the Mormon church is an extremely bigoted anti-homosexual organization.
 

alr1ght

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Yeef said:
More importantly, has Card actually spent any of his money to hamper gay marriage and other issues, or is he just a man with an opinion? If he's not actually fighting it and just an outspoken critic I'd see no reason for a boycott.
wiki:

In April 2009, Card became a member of the board of directors of the National Organization for Marriage, a group that seeks to prevent the legalization of same-sex marriage.

The group was active in supporting California Proposition 8 in 2008, which sought to change the state Constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to opposite-sex couples and eliminated same-sex couples' right to marry.

On April 8, 2009, NOM began a "2 Million for Marriage" (2M4M) initiative with the intention of organizing two million activists nationwide.[13] The campaign used an advertisement, "Gathering Storm", in which actors posed against a dramatic storm-cloud background voiced opposition to same-sex marriage.[14] New York Times columnist Frank Rich described the ad as "an Internet camp classic",[14] and it was parodied by Stephen Colbert and the website Funny or Die.[15]

On April 30, 2009, NOM and Carrie Prejean launched another ad campaign against gay marriage, called "No Offense". In the ad, they object to being characterized as "outright bigots" because of their stance.[16] After semi-nude photos of Prejean were posted on the Internet, causing some to accuse NOM of hypocrisy,[17] NOM issued a press release stating that Prejean had appeared with NOM as a private citizen and not as a spokesperson.[18]

On May 28, 2009, NOM rolled out an anti-gay marriage ad campaign in New York, stating that "Massachusetts schools teach second graders that boys can marry other boys" as an "ominous score" plays. As the Christian Science Monitor pointed out, the ad contained errors that were potentially embarrassing for a campaign based on education, closing with an on-screen admonition to "SAY NO TO SAME SAME [sic] SEX MARRAIGE [sic]". A second version, correcting the misspelling of "marriage" has been released, but it failed to correct the repetition of "same same".[19]

On June 16, 2009, NOM issued a press release stating that they have formed a political action committee in New York named NOM PAC New York. They announced that the PAC had a target goal of providing $500,000 to fund primary challenges against any Republican state senator who votes for gay marriage. NOM also stated that they "are also looking to aid Democratic candidates who want to buck the establishment on the marriage issue, and to help in general election contests."[20]


so yes.
 

Undeux

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Wizman23 said:
I'm going to buy this game twice now just in spite of this thread. Remember back when we were kids and we just enjoyed games?
Remember back when were kids and we said stupid things just to spite people? Whether you agree with him or not, all of the comments like this in the thread are just ridiculous.
 

scitek

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I wouldn't boycott it because I have no interest in taking a stance either way. It might be assholish, but his being a homophobe really doesn't affect me, nor does what gay people do with their lives. I'm just a guy that likes videogames, why the hell should any of this have to do with that?
 

Drinky Crow

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Wizman23 said:
I'm going to buy this game twice now just in spite of this thread. Remember back when we were kids and we just enjoyed games?
yes, most of us have grown up. congratulations on whatever syndrome you have that keeps you from recognizing real-world implications of your choices and actions!
 

Gilgamesh

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Lagunamov said:
Don't judge a picture by its painter.
Brilliant. This is exactly what I think about the whole matter here. Shadow Complex is such an absolutely amazing game that I could care less if the people who made it are homophobes. That's up to them.
 

entremet

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I'm not boycotting the game, but I can respect those who may have issues due to OSC's involvement.
 
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V_Arnold said:
Nope. You are, in very, very direct way, paying for a product which was created by a group of people. He is a part of this group.

You are not supporting anyone, you are not paying for anyone's view of world. You are offered a product (named: Shadow Complex) , and the price of that game is what you pay for their work on said game.

And in a normal world this should be the end of story.
pretty much THIS

reading this thread makes me think that it seems OSC doesn't deserve to earn for a living, and i thought most of gaffers were open minded about this.

as i said later, it's just a game, a product many people were involved into, i don't think it's fair to boycott a game because you hate/disagree with one of the members of the cast.

anyway, i've played the game and i haven't noticed anything unusual about this issue.
 

Princess Skittles

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I thought I couldn't hate the internet any more than I already did.

Congratulations dude, this is an accomplishment.

Wizman23 said:
I'm going to buy this game twice now just in spite of this thread.
Seconded. And I'm being serious. I'll grab it a third time if it hits PC.

Raw64life said:
Only on GAF. Holy shit.
Pretty much this. :lol
 

Barrett2

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Kosma said:
I hope the people not buying this also check in which countries their clothes are made and in what conditions, same for electronics etc.

I mean if you pretend to be some consumer with a consience then do it right.

Otherwise it reeks of hypocrisy.
This is such a stupid argument. While we're at it, Al Gore isn't allowed to speak at a climate change conference because he will fly there, which wastes energy..
 

DaCocoBrova

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Jun 9, 2004
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SoulPlaya said:
Do you realize how many people's livelihood and hard work went into this game? Many people who I'm sure are fine people. Dude, please.

[/thread]

.
 

ascii42

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I don't believe in boycotting out of principle.
If you want something, get it.
If you don't, don't get it.
If you dislike Orson Scott Card enough to not want anything to do with him, don't buy the game. If you were going to buy the game prior to this knowledge, then the person you hurt the most by boycotting is yourself. Card, the developers, the publisher, will barely notice the loss of your purchase. But you don't get to play the game.

That's why I don't believe in boycotting, it affects me more than them.
 

tenten

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Feb 13, 2009
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huh? so you might as well stop buying food, paying for services or interacting with anyone.

There are high chances that you're paying $ to support anyone that's anti same sex marriage. The majority(over 50% of the voters) of people in my state is against it.
 

duckroll

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CO_Andy said:
Orson Scott Card wrote some of the dialogue in Monkey Island. So yes, he is awesome.
He was a pretty good writer back in the day. His writing these days is a lot worse.
 

jay

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The responses of "lol ud haf to boycot lotsa stuff" are kind of odd. Does this mean if someone does actively deal with only corporations and people they chose they are allowed to have the opinion that this game should be boycotted? In other words, why isn't following your sense of ethics some of the time better than following it none of the time?