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Should we boycott Shadow Complex?
- Thread starter Coins
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FieryBalrog
Member
Yea, being against gay marriage is "crazy". I guess 99.9% of all humans who ever lived including most alive today are "crazy". The cocksure self-righteousness never ceases to amaze.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
It's unfortunate but I think it's pretty common for entire groups to get painted as representative of the loudest and notorious members. I mean, statistically speaking in the US, the whole issue of gay rights is being fought mostly by Christians against Christians, and yet people will often ascribe the close-mindedness towards homosexuals as being more of a Christian attitude than the opposite. Not much to be done about it, sadly. People are people, and we have a tendency towards stereotyping.Spoo said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I'm sure this statistic is completely real and not pulled out of your ass at all.FieryBalrog said:
Ugh, going further off track here, but the arguments most people give against gay marriage are just idiotic.
1. "It's not natural and cannot produce children."
Neither can sterile couples.
2. "It will undermine the sanctity of marriage."
And 50% divorce rate, Hollywood marriages calculated to help their careers, reality TV shows, etc., etc., etc. don't? Hell, even the bastard who spearheaded Prop 8 to protect the sanctity of marriage just got divorced.
3. "It's against my religion."
That's super. But this isn't your church sanctifying the marriage, it's the government.
1. "It's not natural and cannot produce children."
Neither can sterile couples.
2. "It will undermine the sanctity of marriage."
And 50% divorce rate, Hollywood marriages calculated to help their careers, reality TV shows, etc., etc., etc. don't? Hell, even the bastard who spearheaded Prop 8 to protect the sanctity of marriage just got divorced.
3. "It's against my religion."
That's super. But this isn't your church sanctifying the marriage, it's the government.
Nessus said:
Good points. But this thread just isn't about that. It's, really, about one man and his opinion. An opinion apparantly so strong, it convinces the gov't to vote in such a way that is anti-gay. And, if you buy Shadow Complex, you're paying for that.
As opposed to paying for Orson's double stack at wendys.
whatevermort
Member
My primary issue with Orson Scott Card is that he's a pretty dreadful writer. His stupid, offensive opinions? They're just the icing.
I'll buy and, no doubt, enjoy Shadow Complex, and cross my fingers that the story is better than the OSC-connection would suggest. (For the record, I'm not a fan of Peter David's writing either. He used to be great (Hulk stuff), but his Spider-man arcs were beyond dreadful, and I really don't like his Dark Tower comics. So, you know. We'll see.
I'll buy and, no doubt, enjoy Shadow Complex, and cross my fingers that the story is better than the OSC-connection would suggest. (For the record, I'm not a fan of Peter David's writing either. He used to be great (Hulk stuff), but his Spider-man arcs were beyond dreadful, and I really don't like his Dark Tower comics. So, you know. We'll see.
FieryBalrog said:
No one significant had a problem with slavery in the past either - it was seen as part of the natural order in every society the world over. Priorities change, cultures evolve, and just because an opinion is widely held, it does not mean it is - or will always be - logical, correct, or considered reasonable throughout the history of the world.
Being against gay marriage is "crazy" in this day and age because it doesn't jive with the most widely accepted tenets of contemporary morality and law. If we lived in a religious society, and believed all our laws came directly from the god of Judaism/Christianity/Islam, then being against gay marriage would make perfect sense. It would also make sense if we lived in a secular society that believed in the morality of a single leader who had declared homosexuality a cancer on our people: 1+1 would equal 2, and we would not be crazy to be opposed to gay marriage. Fortunately, we do not live in such societies.
We live in secular societies that view religions as personal beliefs rather than absolute truths, and we don't tend to believe the individual opinions of powerful people to be a sensible basis for our system of ethics. We generally base our laws around ideals such as the minimisation of harm, protection of legally accepted human rights, and maintenance of fairness. The finer points of these philosophies often conflict, and morality is far from sufficiently universal for us to create laws that everyone agrees upon; but there are usually sound arguments based on one or more of these ideals at the foundation of our legal and ethical systems.
This is not the case for the opposition of gay marriage. There is no logical argument to oppose gay marriage in a secular society which has already accepted that homosexuals ought to be treated as equal to heterosexuals. The remaining opposition stems from religious belief, conservative cultural preferences, and personal disgust; none of which are deemed good arguments upon which to base moral or legal judgments in the modern age.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Yes, that is exactly what you are supposed to do. Your grasp of the argument is uncanny.Jay Sosa said:
rainking187
Member
x3n05 said:That's the spirit, with that attitude you will get GAF member status in no time
As for the blacklist, as this thread has shown, it's all subjective. While mostly everyone agrees that OSC is a douche, not everyone agrees on the action to take.
It seems kind of weird so many people are boycotting this game because of a relationship with OSC, but I've never heard anyone bring any of this up when discussing his books. I dunno, maybe I just missed it. I do know this thread was the first time I'd ever heard any of this stuff about him though.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Well, to start with, absolutely no Nintendo games. Or games on Nintendo systems, cuz they'll get royalties. That company's owner is so mixed up with the Yakuza you'd have to be completely without conscience to support them.Jay Sosa said:
No Dragon Quests either. The composer of the series has some very bizarre attitudes.
Oh, and don't support Trip Hawkins. Not that he has any objectionable attitudes, he's just generally a douche.
I can't tell if you're serious or not.Mercury Fred said:
A friend was telling me about this yesterday. It's the most ridiculous garbage I've ever heard. There's no way I share Card's views, but there's no way in hell I'd think twice about buying a game just because it was heavily influenced by a book written by someone with a strong controversial opinion.
Good grief, it's like some of you think your money will fuel his evil homophobic plans or something. Like many have posted, there are far more sensible targets than this awesome game. A gem like this pops up and people manage to find something stupid to moan about. It's disturbing, and you're gonna destroy any creativity that's left out there by not supporting these little corners of the industry that really need us to show we care.
rainking187 said:
Yes I don't understand the rationale of the boycott. Especially when noted (even in the OP) that the best way to go about it (IF you want to play the game), would be to buy the game but offset any potential money going to OSC by donating some money to the opposite side. Seems the best solution to me, but, each to their own. I know I will still be buying some of his books (got Ender's Game still to read), but as I clearly stated in my first post in this thread, I really don't care where my money is going. As if I did, I would thoroughly research every single thing I put money into beforehand, and that to me, is too much of a chore.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Show me a picture of your copy of Retro Game Challenge or GTFO!B-Genius said:
Nessus said:
Not saying I'm against or for but ...
Sterile couples have a disfunction that makes them not able. Gays does not.
But anyways, I love Shadow Complex. And I will continue playing it regardless of who benefits from it. I believe in free speech, it works both ways.
Spoo said:
Yeah, I bought a copy of Empire too. Not to be a dick, I just love these kinds of stories. I've often wondered what would happen if the red/blue divide in the US turned into an actual civil war, and the game got me interested in the universe.
This thread is nothing but self-righteous wailing and references to Hitler (22 according to the current thread search). It's interesting on some level, but pretty cringe worthy.
thebaroness
Member
Cheech said:
Godwin's Law.
Dwight Schrute
Member
French writer Celine was racist, and Lovecraft antisemit, so we shouldn't read ther book ? You're thinking wrong.
EDIT : Ignore this please, this has been debated, I was lazy and didn't read the whole thread. Sorry 'bout that.
EDIT : Ignore this please, this has been debated, I was lazy and didn't read the whole thread. Sorry 'bout that.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
This has also been mentioned and addressed numerous times in the thread. Really guys, there probably isn't much point posting anymore arguments in this thread. It's all been around and around the block several times now.JonStark said:
Dwight Schrute
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. Just ignore my post
thebaroness
Member
JonStark said:
Read more of the thread, the issue is not "I disagree with the artist behind this work." and more " Orson Scott Card is activly trying to ban the rights of gays and I don't want to fund that with royalties." Authors who are dead cannot benefit from your proceeds.
But yeah, every point pretty much has been argued to death.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Purely out of scientifical curiosity, I went and read the first five chapters of Empire that are posted online as a free preview.
Ok, aside from the paper-thin liberal cartoon extreme left bashing that oozes off the page, so much so that it verges on Stephen Colbert, one question:
Is Empire just a low point in OSC's writing style, or has he just been getting worse over time? I haven't read much after Ender's Game, eons ago when the world was young.
But, seriously, what I read of Empire seemed written by a 8th grader or something. The prose was far more offensive than the politics.
Ok, aside from the paper-thin liberal cartoon extreme left bashing that oozes off the page, so much so that it verges on Stephen Colbert, one question:
Is Empire just a low point in OSC's writing style, or has he just been getting worse over time? I haven't read much after Ender's Game, eons ago when the world was young.
But, seriously, what I read of Empire seemed written by a 8th grader or something. The prose was far more offensive than the politics.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
He's definitely been deteriorating in his writing quality since Ender's Game. I don't know anyone who thinks otherwise. It seems like his heart isn't in it anymore.Kaijima said:
Kajima said:
Ender's Game was horrible. This Empire can't be much worse. OSC has never been a good author in the first place, whatever one thinks of his political views.
Cheech said:
This thread has done some good at least, it reminded me to try out the Shadow Complex demo on my 360. The demo was so awesome I bought the game shortly after playing it. See, even the most ridiculous threads can serve some purpose. I've read similar posts from people who had no idea what Shadow Complex was when they entered this thread, but learned about it, turned out to be interested, and ended up enjoying it.
It's as if this thread had the exact opposite result that the OP intended. :lol
speculawyer
Member
I know my contribution is nearly insignificant, but I'm not gonna buy it now.
Nessus said:
Who did then?
I remember Ender's Game having a lot of (disturbing) naked boy shower scenes for an author who apparently hates gays so much. :lol
But mostly I found it a poorly written and cliche-ridden novel. Of course, people read it when they are kids, and become endeared to it before their tastes have matured much. I was the same way with the Golden Compass fantasy series. Badly written, but as a kid you don't notice that.
BigKaboom2
Member
In his last Gamasutra comment, Peter David said that he got a flat fee for his work on the project; nothing extra based on the sales performance. Certainly a possibility that it's the same thing for OSC.
"God's Beard!"
Member
This is a fun game. $15 to the Mormons here.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
I still find it interesting that no one has answered my question on the idea that you should give money to a cause to "counter act" someone's beliefs because you purchased a product.
Does anyone in here donate money to "Chinese Rights Groups" when they buy a toy that was more than likely made in a sweatshop with shit conditions?
I didn't think so.
Can anyone else think of a situation that would happen in reality where one would doante money to something because they purchased something else?
If you ask me, it sounds like gaygamer and a few people in here are in the pockets of these activist groups.
But hey, that's just me....
Edit:
Bingo. Card was more than likely paid a fee at the beginning of development and won't receive a "percentage". This thread reminds me of that episode of "It's Always Sunny..." where Charlie keeps talking about the "vig".
Does anyone in here donate money to "Chinese Rights Groups" when they buy a toy that was more than likely made in a sweatshop with shit conditions?
I didn't think so.
Can anyone else think of a situation that would happen in reality where one would doante money to something because they purchased something else?
If you ask me, it sounds like gaygamer and a few people in here are in the pockets of these activist groups.
But hey, that's just me....
Edit:
BigKaboom2 said:
Bingo. Card was more than likely paid a fee at the beginning of development and won't receive a "percentage". This thread reminds me of that episode of "It's Always Sunny..." where Charlie keeps talking about the "vig".
Aske said:
I wish we could just do a mass poll and see just where people in the US truly stand on this issue and let it be done with, personally I think those for same-sex marriage are still part of a pretty insignificant minority in number, but a poll like this would tell the truth.
This poll was posted earlier in this very thread. It was taken in April of this year.methos75 said:
This is the source of the poll.
There's no majority for any particular stance, but more Americans support legal recognition of homosexual relationships than do not, and the largest of the polled factions supports a legal right for gays to marry.
FrostuTheNinja said:
I think that was a suggestion for people who would feel guilty about buying the game. Of course, they would like to convince all people that they should feel that way, but they are a sort of advocacy site so that's natural. Off topic: people might want to refine their stance on sweatshops for the modern era.
Asmodai said:
Accidentally.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
this thread.
incredible....
incredible....
Fourth Stooge
Banned
NinjaFusion said:
But not as incredible as Shadow Complex...
I would probably take this whole boycott thing more seriously if people were actually sacrificing something. Anonymously participating in a protest from the comfort of your own home seems....meaningless? ...ineffectual? ...cowardly? No one even knows if Card is receiving any money.
Yes, I have read the thread. I understand the positions of both sides. It's not complicated. Some people are concerned that videogame mogul Orson Scott Card is raking in royalties to fund his worldwide plot against homosexuals from his mountain stronghold in Utah (sounds like a videogame plot...a better plot than Shadow Complex).
I think if he was being paid for his involvement his name may appear on the title screen. I don't know if he was paid or not. If you do know, please share. Otherwise you are just speculating. All we do know is that Chair is what Donald Rumsfeld would call "collateral damage." Guilt by association. It's okay because they're probably mostly Mormons. Look at the first page of this thread. There's a link to a list of Mormon business to boycott. Perhaps they could get tattoos so we can track them--because they are apparently being tracked (why else have a list?). Or just have them put signs in the windows of their businesses... Make them go back where they came from.
Meanwhile, the boycotters are unwilling to give up anything that would inconvenience them. Gays are executed in Saudi Arabia. Stop buying gasoline and other oil-based products (e.g. lubricants). Yes, I know it has been mentioned before. That does not mean the point is not valid. It just means that the people who are so righteous are really just looking out for themselves.
This is why we can't have nice things...
Spoo said:
Who said that? You keep telling me you're reading the arguments, but you constantly demonstrate you likely aren't.
B-Genius said:
Great! Now read the thread and understand the actual argument being made.
Cheech said:
Context is meaningless, huh? I can't stand hyperbolic use of Hitler's name and I can't stand hyperbolic reaction to use of his name either.
methos75 said:
This is really getting off topic now, but honestly, I don't think it really matters. It just so happens most polls suggest a majority of Americans support recognizing gay marriage in some way legally, but even if they didn't, the majority doesn't simply decide what is right and what is wrong. A majority of people voting to keep slavery does not make slavery right.
Also remember we don't live in a literal democracy
.ShockingAlberto
Member
We have a republic specifically so the desires of the majority do not trample on the rights of the minority.methos75 said:
BigKaboom2
Member
You overestimate the influence of GAF and especially Gamasutra.Flynn said:
Ogrekiller
Member
Oh, if your boycott extends to Epic as well, be sure to boycott these companies as well, since they license the UE engines, which will fill up Epic's coffers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
Oh, and boycott these people as well, they're partnered with Epic.
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/partner-program.php
There're probably more out there, but here's a rudimentary list of companies to boycott:
Epic
EA
Take 2
THQ
Ubisoft
Square Enix
Codemasters
SOE
Koei Tecmo
Microsoft Game Studios
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games
Oh, and boycott these people as well, they're partnered with Epic.
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/partner-program.php
There're probably more out there, but here's a rudimentary list of companies to boycott:
Epic
EA
Take 2
THQ
Ubisoft
Square Enix
Codemasters
SOE
Koei Tecmo
Microsoft Game Studios