Coins said:Yeah, 500K Mormons in California arent a lot. What about the Mormons in Utah and their churches who took it upon themselves to fund, sway and get out the vote in a state they dont even live in?
ElectricBlue187 said:Ender's Game was soooo good though. I can't hate the guy who wrote that, I just can't sorry.
soldat7 said:What about the opponents of Prop 8 from other states (Utah included, shockingly) who raised money and awareness about this bill?
mik said:When we cleaned out my grandma's basement after she died, she actually still had a copy of this book:
Good times.
Dude Abides said:What about them? Presumably if such people make any video games the people boycotting SC will boycott their games as well.
Coins said:Im glad theres nothing in the bible about blacks being inferior!
tahrikmili said:I read it. I still fail to see how punishing the other dozen people who worked on the game for the ideas of one man is not stupid. Especially when the ideas are not even remotely relevant to said game.
Feel free to boycott it and see how far you go, however. I don't have enough time to fight windmills on the interwebs.
Cheech said:The URL you seek is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
It's actually a fun read. Now, consider how many times Hitler has been brought up in this thread. It's an indication that the discussion is slim pickings as far as valuable or interesting content.
Also, I've noticed an overuse of the word "hyperbole" in this thread, another indication that wheels are being spun.
kamorra said:Do you think that all the little personal attacks you add to all your post will help to advance this discussion? Look, I think you have a good point and I share you view that gays should have the same rights than any other people but you are way to aggressive. Didn't you say that it should be everyone's own decision to boycott or not? I lost count of how many time you questioned someones reading skills in this thread. Most of them do understand what you trying to say but they still don't agree.
B-Genius said:Thank you! It seems KHarvey thinks anyone who doesn't agree with him either hasn't read/fully understood the thread, or is an idiot.
Thread is most likely 'stupid' because it doesn't have much to do with gaming at all. OP is fortunate he didn't just get flooded with 'No's.
Wrestlemania said:He's not asking them to change their opinion, I think he'd just like to at least respond to the points he's making rather than creating nice little straw man arguments for themselves.
The Blue Jihad said:Others have asked this before, but who knows if anyone read it. I'd expect sensible, non-inflammatory replies to get lost in the shuffle of insanity here.
Okay. For all those who are boycotting the game, do you have a clear, consistent reason why? One of the most important elements in any boycott is that clear, consistent talking point for participants to use when asked.
So which is the clear, consistent talking point, and is there any way for it to be debunked?
In order to have a successful, respectable, intelligent boycott, you'd need to consider what you're saying and what others are saying in response to you. You'd need to have a clear, cogent and rational rebuttal point.
Further, for the boycott to really have merit beyond internet messageboards, you need to have a clear vision for both the HOW and WHY. So how many of you are actively going beyond the "-1 sale" angle? Are any of you speaking out? Writing letters? Going public with your issue? You know, making the case itself? Explaining the WHY behind the HOW?
ElectricBlue187 said:Ender's Game was soooo good though. I can't hate the guy who wrote that, I just can't sorry.
soldat7 said:I said opponents of Prop 8. People get ticked off because of the Mormon influence, but where was the equally strong contrary influence? You can't blame Mormons, least of all Mormons in Utah (save leadership) for everything regarding the passing of Prop 8. As someone mentioned earlier, the opponents of Prop 8 seemed to lack centralized leadership and organization. I don't think that mistake will be repeated the next time this comes to vote.
Wrestlemania said:Wow. I'm not sure if you could have possibly made that any more patronising.
The Blue Jihad said:Look, this thread is so chaotic and so many different people are posting for and against the boycott that I know I'm having trouble discerning one clear, consistent message coming from either side. I can't be the only one who's unable to pluck any one solid idea out of this. So please spare me your angst and make yourself useful. Pick a side and make your argument matter.
I would play a game about Iran.Graphics Horse said:Would anyone have problems if a game featured advertising for a city where homosexuality is illegal?
DevelopmentArrested said:anyone who believes they get their own planet when they die deserves to be boycotted !
Coins said:The clear message is we will not support OSC and anything he is involved in. I find it hard to believe that you couldnt come up with that after reading this thread.
Shamrock said:You want to boycott then go ahead. I'm not gay therefore I give a rats ass about gay marriage and I sure as hell wouldn't miss out on a great game because the guy has a opinion that he has a right to.
Asmodai said:Who's "we"? You said that in the thread title and it didn't make sense there either.
GAF isn't some collective consciousness.
Big-E said:How do you ask that question? It is clear as day that he is talking about fellow posters who have not bought the game. That ain't hard.
On your second point, how dare someone say "Should we boycott Shadow Complex?". The fact that the word we would be used to address members of a forum is beyond asinine ain't it? We are all a member of a forum and we are a collective. Bitching about the OP is one of the craziest things I have read in this thread. Does the OP title say "We have to boycott Shadow Complex?" No it doesn't so get off your fucking semantic bullshit about a god damn pronoun.
sorry if my production of a general life guideline independent of any ongoing thread discussion offends youBig-E said:Your grasping of the argument is astounding.
Asmodai said:How many novels have you read? Either you've been extremely unlucky with the novels you have read, or you have very different tastes from my own. Ender's Game is a children's book, but even by those standards it's pretty lame.
Besides, the guy who wrote it tried to justify terrorism/treason. You're honestly telling me you couldn't hate a guy like that?
Asmodai said:That's it, I'm boycotting pronouns.
Moar nerd rage, please. :lol
DevelopmentArrested said:sorry if my production of a general life guideline independent of any ongoing thread discussion offends you
Big-E said:Great rebuttal. I am not the one offended by the term "we" when a question to fellow posters is asked. Continue with your bullshit.
Coins said:The clear message is we will not support OSC and anything he is involved in. I find it hard to believe that you couldnt come up with that after reading this thread.
KHarvey16 said:To summarize the argument being made by myself and a few other people:
OSC sits on committees whose purpose is to deny rights to American citizens. He is of the opinion that gay people are created through abuse and rape, and any who are sexually active should be considered as less than equal citizens. These are direct quotes. The most important part though, the point relevant to the boycott, is he is very much involved in furthering his views politically. He has some measure of influence, certainly more so then a random person with an opinion.
The boycott is not being pursued by some in order to punish Chair or change OSC's personal opinions. It is not about "making a point." It is simply the case that some do not want their money to end up in that mans hands, who, as mentioned previously, is involved in activities they find abhorrent.
It's a very simple personal judgment about whether the purchase of the game represents enough good to overcome the bad. Some people have come to the conclusion that it doesn't, and therefor will not buy the game. If others reach the opposite conclusion, that's perfectly fine! As I said, it's a personal judgment. What gets me frustrated is not that people come to an answer that is different from mine, but that some people do not have the courtesy to even grasp the arguments or, in lieu of that, ask for clarification before declaring a thread stupid or those who are boycotting idiots.
The Blue Jihad said:Coins, you aren't helping your side when you respond with these Tucker Bounds-esque snide little quips. You're the complete opposite of a worthwhile spokesman. KHarvey16, on the other hand, has the right idea.
Thank you. Now, how much would OSC actually be receiving for the game? I'd agree that any amount would be too much from your point of view, but are there any actual numbers? It would help to put things into perspective.
Also, you aren't trying to change his opinions, sure, but if you're boycotting the game because you disagree with him, then you are protesting his (admittedly vile) viewpoint. Now is a boycott of Shadow Complex the best way to protest OSC's views? How does the loss of a game sale drive the point home? Are you doing anything beyond merely not buying the game? I understand it's a personal judgment, but if your disagreement is this profound, it seems only natural to take it a step further and speak out against what he espouses.
Coins said:Maybe if you werent too lazy to read the whole thread youd see that I have brought those points up before. You get the short answer.
Coins said:What youre saying is bullshit. Minorities are minorities. Whites didnt give two fucks about blacks until some "activist" judges got involved, didnt give a fuck if it was popular or not, didnt give a fuck it there was a vote or not, and made some changes.
No we have another minority who wants some goddamn equal rights which they deserve and we got "well, im not gay so i dont give a fuck about gay marriage!". Its the same fucking sentiment. Judges in California decided to do the right thing and grant gays marriage, then some fucking asshole, homophobes said, "Its not fair! We want to vote on this." Fuck that. Fuck homophobes who want the people to vote on this instead of just accepting that minorities deserve equal rights, fuck the Mormon church for getting involved, and fuck OSC for dumping money into Prop 8 to ensure that rights were taken away from Americans.
Asmodai said:How many novels have you read? Either you've been extremely unlucky with the novels you have read, or you have very different tastes from my own. Ender's Game is a children's book, but even by those standards it's pretty lame.
Ender's Game: Battle Room is an upcoming digitally distributed video game for all viable downloadable platforms developed by Chair Entertainment and based on the novel, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. The game will utilize Unreal Engine 3.
The developers intend to focus the game specifically around the Battle Room.
The Blue Jihad said:You don't want to play this game with me. I'm not about to wade through some 20+ pages just to satisfy you, especially when skimming over the past 2 pages yields this glory of a post of yours:
I don't care what post prompted that reply. Posts like that and attitudes like yours are what has plunged this thread into degenerate mud-flinging chaos.
I stand by what I said about you earlier. You are not a worthwhile spokesman for your side, and if you care about what you're fighting for, then you absolutely need to drop the completely asinine Tucker Bounds nonsense.
If you can't do that, then get out of here. Nobody wants you participating in this debate.
Spokesmen? They certainly don't speak for me. We aren't organized, and we're only boycotting by the loosest definition of the word.The Blue Jihad said:Coins, you aren't helping your side when you respond with these Tucker Bounds-esque snide little quips. You're the complete opposite of a worthwhile spokesman. KHarvey16, on the other hand, has the right idea.
If you think you can do a little, don't bother, because you should be doing more. Is that your argument?The Blue Jihad said:Are you doing anything beyond merely not buying the game? I understand it's a personal judgment, but if your disagreement is this profound, it seems only natural to take it a step further and speak out against what he espouses.
FrostuTheNinja said:Don't some of these people realize they are as much of a bigot as their self proclaimed nemesis?
I like how expressing genuine dislike for homophobia and gay marriage is somehow 'asinine' and is the reason we have such 'mud-flinging chaos'. No, it's people like OSC and others who bought this game to spite gays or do not care for their cause because they're straight (one of the stupidest reasons to not support something) that have created all the mud-flinging. If we cut out the retards, we could get some modest discussion going.The Blue Jihad said:You don't want to play this game with me. I'm not about to wade through some 20+ pages just to satisfy you, especially when skimming over the past 2 pages yields this glory of a post of yours:
I don't care what post prompted that reply. Posts like that and attitudes like yours are what has plunged this thread into degenerate mud-flinging chaos.
I stand by what I said about you earlier. You are not a worthwhile spokesman for your side, and if you care about what you're fighting for, then you absolutely need to drop the completely asinine Tucker Bounds nonsense.
If you can't do that, then get out of here. Nobody wants you participating in this debate.
FrostuTheNinja said:I've been trying to figure out how to say this for a couple of pages. It almost strikes me as the "Holier Than Thou" horse shit some nuts pull.
Don't some of these people realize they are as much of a bigot as their self proclaimed nemesis?
PepsimanVsJoe said:Now I'm wondering about the kind of people I've supported over the years by buying their games.
AkuMifune said:Worse people than OSC, I'm sure.
Can we get a count of all the confirmed boycotts? I want to see just how many "heroes" this monster thread has in it. Also, I need to find out how many extra copies to buy to just to make it a worthless endeavor for them.
Coins said:Thanks. One person not spending money on this makes my post worthwhile.
AkuMifune said:Worse people than OSC, I'm sure.
Can we get a count of all the confirmed boycotts? I want to see just how many "heroes" this monster thread has in it. Also, I need to find out how many extra copies to buy to just to make it a worthless endeavor for them.
Spoo said:I searched ALL OVER for a copy of "Empire" today to buy. Looks like it's straight ^ sold out.
I.O.W: This proposed Boycott of OSC's videogame has hardly harmed the sale of his books, which is where he makes most of his cash.
Can we get a count of all the confirmed boycotts? I want to see just how many "heroes" this monster thread has in it. Also, I need to find out how many extra copies to buy to just to make it a worthless endeavor for them.
AkuMifune said:Worse people than OSC, I'm sure.
Can we get a count of all the confirmed boycotts? I want to see just how many "heroes" this monster thread has in it. Also, I need to find out how many extra copies to buy to just to make it a worthless endeavor for them.
Actually I completely intend on buying a few extra copies. I'm not a self-serving shithead, I just don't think these devs or this game deserves to get hurt over a few misguided souls trying to make a statement. You can't judge a body of work completed by a group of talented people based on the beliefs of one outside individual in that group. That's bigoted.Tellaerin said:You do that. Show everyone who wants to at least try and change things for the better how pointless it is to bother, because there are always going to be self-serving shitheads itching for a chance to throw a spanner in the works just 'for the lulz'. (Or because they genuinely support bigots like Card, which is just as bad.)
Not that I actually think you're going to spend a fucking dime, so I'm hardly losing sleep over it. Still, it's a pretty shitty thing to say, and it doesn't reflect all that well on you, either.