Support NeoGAF

[Fuu]

Why not use the nunchuk for the waggle slashing? While it may be a bit inaccurate, it should be enough for providing horizontal and vertical slashes, which seem to be the case according to the trailer.

There's no difference regarding horizontal or vertical slashes in the original game, you press the button at the right time and, regardless of how the move is animated on Saki or Airan, the effect on the enemies and reflectable shots is the same. From the trailer I got the feeling it will be like that too in the sequel.

The main point is that when you have to slash or dodge, it has to be precise. Both the remote and even more the nunchuk have a flair of unresponsiveness that doesn't really fit S&P's gameplay imo. I think it would detract from the game instead of adding to the experience like pointer aiming will do.

Anyway, it's on the shoulders of Treasure. If they choose to implement waggle I just hope they make it work really well and I'll gladly accept it if that's the case. For now I'm not seeing how it would be better than buttons, and I hope they choose not to.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

You know that using Waggle for slashes is exactly how RE4Wii worked and it worked perfectly fine, didn't mess up the aiming at all and was nice and responsive! Why would S&P2 be different?

 

[lyre]

Why not use the nunchuk for the waggle slashing? While it may be a bit inaccurate, ...

The last thing a twitch shooter needs is any sort of, even extremely minor, lag or inaccuracy. If there is an option to set slashing to either, fine, but with waggle slashing, there will always be a chance the game will mistaking a light jerk reaction (or other small movements) as a slash.

You know that using Waggle for slashes is exactly how RE4Wii worked and it worked perfectly fine, didn't mess up the aiming at all and was nice and responsive! Why would S&P2 be different?

RE4 is nowhere near as fast paced or dependant on accuracy as SnP.

 

[Eteric Rice]

There's no difference regarding horizontal or vertical slashes in the original game, you press the button at the right time and, regardless of how the move is animated on Saki or Airan, the effect on the enemies and reflectable shots is the same. From the trailer I got the feeling it will be like that too in the sequel.

The main point is that when you have to slash or dodge, it has to be precise. Both the remote and even more the nunchuk have a flair of unresponsiveness that doesn't really fit S&P's gameplay imo. I think it would detract from the game instead of adding to the experience like pointer aiming will do.

Anyway, it's on the shoulders of Treasure. If they choose to implement waggle I just hope they make it work really well and I'll gladly accept it if that's the case. For now I'm not seeing how it would be better than buttons, and I hope they choose not to.

Something that I always wondered about was Super Mario Galaxy's underwater spin.

For some reason it was extremely accurate.

 

[Cdammen]

Cool! I thought this was a Contra game or something when I saw that Nintendo Conference Fall 2008 video

 

[Fuu]

You know that using Waggle for slashes is exactly how RE4Wii worked and it worked perfectly fine, didn't mess up the aiming at all and was nice and responsive! Why would S&P2 be different?

I didn't play RE4Wii and I can't compare it gameplay wise to S&P, sorry, I've gotta try that sometime. But it has quite a different approach, don't you think? S&P is very fast paced.

I'll reiterate that I have nothing against waggle per se, I have a Wii and I've played a load of games on it. I just don't see the point for using it in this game.

Here's a sample for anyone who has never played Sin & Punishment in this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbw31p7BhHE&fmt=18

If after the first 40 seconds you still think that slash and dodge should be mapped to waggle motions, I agree to disagree.

Something that I always wondered about was Super Mario Galaxy's underwater spin.

For some reason it was extremely accurate.

Yup. It worked really well there.

 

[bdouble]

they will probably have multiple controls schemes first of all and doge would work well on the dpad. Then put slash on C or Z. Or you could make C plus direction on analog dodge. Not hard to map this game to the wiimote so I'm not worried.

 

[plank]

Wait I'm kind of confused with the character design, I mean are they boys or girls?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I'm assuming it's A for shoot, B for jump, and Z for slash. Maybe the D-pad for dodging or even possibly C, though that could get confusing.

 

[Akai]

The last thing a twitch shooter needs is any sort of, even extremely minor, lag or inaccuracy. If there is an option to set slashing to either, fine, but with waggle slashing, there will always be a chance the game will mistaking a light jerk reaction (or other small movements) as a slash.

Easy to fix: just hold a button down if you want to slash, thus negating any unwanted slashes...

It also makes sense for the sword to throw off your aim, considering the sword is actually part of THE GUN, right? Think about it for a second...You slash with the "gun" and then have to aim it again?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Easy to fix: just hold a button down if you want to slash, thus negating any unwanted slashes...

It also makes sense for the sword to throw off your aim, considering the sword is actually part of THE GUN, right? Think about it for a second...You slash with the "gun" and then have to aim it again?

I know I've been clamoring for more realism in my post-apocalyptic shooter about aliens.

Being able to aim your reflected attacks is pretty damn important.

 

[ShinNL]

Easy to fix: just hold a button down if you want to slash, thus negating any unwanted slashes...

It also makes sense for the sword to throw off your aim, considering the sword is actually part of THE GUN, right? Think about it for a second...You slash with the "gun" and then have to aim it again?

I just bolded one word and I'll let you figure out what's wrong here.

 

[Black-Wind]

Wait I'm kind of confused with the character design, I mean are they boys or girls?

I hope they have another character, like they did with the first one.

Don't really like his/ her design much.

And for controls, I assumed the NC wou house all the movement/ jumps/ dodges well A button is for slashing and B button is for shooting (or reverse that A-B part).

 

[Akai]

I just bolded one word and I'll let you figure out what's wrong here.

Nothing... =)

It'd be like hitting a switch to flip the blade open in real life...

 

[Dascu]

Nothing... =)

It'd be like hitting a switch to flip the blade open in real life...

Yes, but it's pretty dumb to use button+waggle for what could be handled by just pressing a button (or waggle) alone.

 

[Akai]

Yes, but it's pretty dumb to use button+waggle for what could be handled by just pressing a button (or waggle) alone.

Don't try to make it more complicated than it really is...As mentioned with the RE4 example, the "one-two combo" can be done in a very fluid motion, AND you get a more realistic (and thus more satisfying) result than just tapping a button...

They should at least include it as an option for those who aren't "waggle grumblers"... =\

 

[Snaku]

Debut Teaser:

Holy shit YES!

 

[JaMarco]

nvm

 

[RocketDarkness]

Easy to fix: just hold a button down if you want to slash, thus negating any unwanted slashes...

It also makes sense for the sword to throw off your aim, considering the sword is actually part of THE GUN, right? Think about it for a second...You slash with the "gun" and then have to aim it again?

Yes, that would make sense, but one of the major benefits to using the sword was deflecting enemy shots & missiles back at the enemies. In the original, you'd have to have your crosshairs lined up with what you wanted to shoot, time your slash correctly, and then the projectile would head towards where you were aiming. If you tried to make the slash a gesture, the initial gesture would almost certainly send the crosshair somewhere other than your intended target before registering it as a motion, basically breaking one of the major game mechanics.

I'm all for motion controls, but it has to make sense and not detract from the game's mechanics. Unfortunately, motion-slashing does just that.

 

[darkvir]

I really hope Yasushi Suzuki is again the artist on this 2nd game, I absolutely luv his work.

pelvic thrust ftw

 

[clustering]

FUCK YEAH!

 

[Akai]

Yes, that would make sense, but one of the major benefits to using the sword was deflecting enemy shots & missiles back at the enemies. In the original, you'd have to have your crosshairs lined up with what you wanted to shoot, time your slash correctly, and then the projectile would head towards where you were aiming. If you tried to make the slash a gesture, the initial gesture would almost certainly send the crosshair somewhere other than your intended target before registering it as a motion, basically breaking one of the major game mechanics.

I'm all for motion controls, but it has to make sense and not detract from the game's mechanics. Unfortunately, motion-slashing does just that.

Hmmm, forgot about that...I guess you could have the same button be a sort of "pseudo-lock-on"...As in, you place the cursor over the enemy you wish to attack, then when you activate the sword button it'll lock onto that enemy (or space where you have locked-on) and reflect the projectile back wherever you activated it...

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Hmmm, forgot about that...I guess you could have the same button be a sort of "pseudo-lock-on"...As in, you place the cursor over the enemy you wish to attack, then when you activate the sword button it'll lock onto that enemy (or space where you have locked-on) and reflect the projectile back wherever you activated it...

Or

Make it a button

 

[Christine]

Forget waggle slashing for a minute. I want to know what people think about the autocursor toggle - does it still have a place?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Forget waggle slashing for a minute. I want to know what people think about the autocursor toggle - does it still have a place?

It didn't really have a place in the original for the most part considering how weak auto-aim was. I could take it or leave it with pointer aiming.

 

[KevinCow]

I don't think the game really needs to use motion controls. The pointer is fantastic enough use of of the Wiimote and nunchuk.

Having the option to use a quick shake of the nunchuk for the sword slash wouldn't hurt, though.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Having the option to use a quick shake of the nunchuk for the sword slash wouldn't hurt, though.

Yes. It. Would.

It would be slower and less responsive than a button. That's not an improvement.

 

[KevinCow]

Yes. It. Would.

It would be slower and less responsive than a button. That's not an improvement.

Having the option to use a quick shake of the nunchuk for the sword slash wouldn't hurt, though.

You seem to have missed a key word here.

There's no harm in giving the player a choice.

 

[Threi]

Forget waggle slashing for a minute. I want to know what people think about the autocursor toggle - does it still have a place?

Yeah i am not sure what is going to happen with that. If pointer is used for aiming i don't see how it would work as the cursor constantly moves.

 

[JaMarco]

I think they should just use the pointer for shooting(B) AND slashing(A)

 

[Zoramon089]

Hmmm, forgot about that...I guess you could have the same button be a sort of "pseudo-lock-on"...As in, you place the cursor over the enemy you wish to attack, then when you activate the sword button it'll lock onto that enemy (or space where you have locked-on) and reflect the projectile back wherever you activated it...

Or hold a button to go into slash and while you're doing it the crosshair would stay where it was when you pressed the button

 

[The Hermit]

I am afraid of people even considering the idea of waggle in this game...

In Treasure we trust!

 

[KevinCow]

I think they should just use the pointer for shooting(B) AND slashing(A)

I'd put jump on A and sword on Z.

 

[JaMarco]

I'd put jump on A and sword on Z.

your right

 

[sprsk]

I don't think Treasure would ever put waggle in a game like this if it fucked up the timing.

Come on, these guys aren't stupid, look at their track record.

 

[Sallokin]

I'm extremely late to this announcement thanks to moving/unpacking but FUCK YES!

 

[sixteen-bit]

Come on, these guys aren't stupid, look at their track record.

shit happens.

 

[Tain]

you forgot

ahuahua

 

[EmCeeGramr]

...when the main character (if that's supposed to be Saki) slashes in that video, the cursor shakes left and right as if the remote is moving.



Oh no.

 

[Gilgamesh]

...when the main character (if that's supposed to be Saki) slashes in that video, the cursor shakes left and right as if the remote is moving.



Oh no.

GOD DAMMIT. It does!

 

[Black-Wind]

GOD DAMMIT. It does!

But only alil . . .

(Hope theres a mode where you can change it)

 

[Eteric Rice]

Well, lets just hope it's responsive. If it's as responsive as it is in Mario Galaxy's underwater spin attacks it won't be bad at all.

 

[M3d10n]

If Treasure adjusts the timing window properly waggle slashing could work fine. This is a new game after all, it's not like they're shoehorning new controls onto old levels.

 

[Tathanen]

...when the main character (if that's supposed to be Saki) slashes in that video, the cursor shakes left and right as if the remote is moving.



Oh no.

It does... but if I was shaking my Remote from side to side in a pointer game, that cursor would be going from one side of the screen to the other, not left and right a couple inches. That amount of wiggle there is equivalent to microscopic wrist motion. It might just be a wobble animation for shits.

...or maybe you hold Z to enter "sword mode" and your cursor locks, and you waggle while holding it for each slash, and the cursor wobble is still just aesthetic.

Who knows.

 

[JaMarco]

...when the main character (if that's supposed to be Saki) slashes in that video, the cursor shakes left and right as if the remote is moving.



Oh no.

 

[SturokBGD]

I can't believe there are people actually discussing the possibility that Wii controls are a bad idea.

There is no game that needs point and waggle more than S+P!

 

[Sixfortyfive]

I can't believe there are people actually discussing the possibility that Wii controls are a bad idea.

There is no game that needs point and waggle more than S+P!

Pointer yes, waggle no.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Pointer yes, waggle no.

I don't know, I think I would rather waggle a sword swing than have to deal with pressing the left trigger like you did on N64. Think about all of those missiles you hit to bounce back at enemies. It would be cool if they made that kind of like baseball or tennis from Wii Sports. The problem is aiming while swinging. Hopefully they can come up with a solution.

 

[abstract alien]

His feet move terribly jerky while he is running, but other than that...yeah...

 

[JaMarco]

His feet move terribly jerky while he is running,

I wonder if they'll even bother fixing that /