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Smartphones and the "de-evolution" of a gamer.
- Thread starter nkarafo
- Start date
Perhaps they're still passionate, which is why they're spending time checking out the most fertile breeding ground for 'new' games?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I like how the self-proclaimed hardcore who are dismissive of games aimed at certain audiences as not being "real games" try and kid themselves they wouldn't be spooging all over an endless runner with AAA production values and a hollywood star cameo voiceover and cutscenes as a console exclusive on their console of choice.
While I mostly don't play phone games I do think your insinuation that phone games have to run at a crummy frame-rate is silly. I have a pretty large selection of games on my iPhone and 95% of them run at 60 fps. When it comes to games I keep on my device I stick with those that perform well and offer simple, but fun gameplay.
Now I do find it odd that someone would sit around playing on a phone when better quality stuff is available at that exact moment but, in cases where it's not possible to play something else and you're in the mood, there's nothing wrong with phone games.
Go check out stuff like Bean Dreams, FOTONICA, Leo's Fortune, Hitman GO, Crazy Taxi (which manages to play extremely well), Monument Valley, Crossy Road, True Skate, Darius Burst, Skulls of the Shogun, and, if you can deal with 30 fps, Republique for some games that work pretty damn well on a phone and deliver a smooth 60 fps. They all look nice and play pretty well. Those are the types of games that work on a phone.
Most racers today also tend to run at reasonable frame-rates. I mean, I don't love it, but Ridge Racer Slipstream looks pretty nice and runs at 1080p60 on an iPhone 6+. There are others as well.
Those super low frame-rate, janky ass generic games are out there, of course, but you can't judge the platform by them. If that's what your friends are playing, though, then I really don't understand (unless it's due to the fact that those games are all free).
Starwolf_UK
Member
Sorry for a very rudimentary reading of this but one thing that jumped out was describing some smartphone games as being categorized as shovelware.
I hardly ever see anything described as shovelware on consoles these days. I suppose the gravy train moved on so to speak?
As for why play? I think convenience is part of it. Pulling something out of a pocket then swipe and go is a lot faster and easier to do than pressing a power button and waiting for a bootup for instance.
I am no position to comment on backlogs especially as I have great games unplayerd yet chose to play total turds of RPGmakrer games on Steam (while listening to podcasts is the only justification for this action) for the simple matter of PC was on, they wouldn't distract from the podcast too much.
I hardly ever see anything described as shovelware on consoles these days. I suppose the gravy train moved on so to speak?
As for why play? I think convenience is part of it. Pulling something out of a pocket then swipe and go is a lot faster and easier to do than pressing a power button and waiting for a bootup for instance.
I am no position to comment on backlogs especially as I have great games unplayerd yet chose to play total turds of RPGmakrer games on Steam (while listening to podcasts is the only justification for this action) for the simple matter of PC was on, they wouldn't distract from the podcast too much.
I'm definitely not a hardcore gamer but if they released an endless runner on any console with the most beautiful graphics ever seen running in real time at 60fps. With hollywood cameo's and voice overs I wouldn't go near it.
FriedConsole
Banned
Yeah watching sports use to show a lot of conmercials for video games but now it is all phone games. Other than COD and Madden, Destiny is the only other game I have seen in years. I am OK with the Kate Upton commercial tho.
I'm pretty sure you mean devolution rather than de-evolution.
Either way I disagree with you simply because thing as they are now haven't been this way previously. You give examples but they aren't the only examples available and there are far more available choices than there has ever been in the past.
Either way I disagree with you simply because thing as they are now haven't been this way previously. You give examples but they aren't the only examples available and there are far more available choices than there has ever been in the past.
Petrae
Member
Holy shit. Mobile games aren't real? These are some amazing illusions that I've bern enjoying for the last couple of years, then.
Yeesh.
Aztechnology
Member
I play hearthstone on my note 3 and it's great.
The kind of games I'd love to see are things like advanced wars, final fantasy tactics advanced, golden sun, Pokémon etc on my phone. No real time games for me though. Controls on a touchscreen are annoying and unreliable.
Theres alot of potential in smartphone gaming, especially with APU's becoming so good. The problem is the mobile market is oversaturated with shitty clones and microtransaction cash cows. Sadly your friend and millions upon millions of other people seem to like them just fine. My younger cousins (many 8-14 range) all almost exclusively play on tablets or mobile games.
Are you saying their both shitty games? Because I agree.
The kind of games I'd love to see are things like advanced wars, final fantasy tactics advanced, golden sun, Pokémon etc on my phone. No real time games for me though. Controls on a touchscreen are annoying and unreliable.
Theres alot of potential in smartphone gaming, especially with APU's becoming so good. The problem is the mobile market is oversaturated with shitty clones and microtransaction cash cows. Sadly your friend and millions upon millions of other people seem to like them just fine. My younger cousins (many 8-14 range) all almost exclusively play on tablets or mobile games.
Are you saying their both shitty games? Because I agree.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
They are the vita games of tomorrow
Jme
Member
there is no "de-evolution" here. its more of a broadened definition. there are more ways to play games, therefore there are more people who play games, dubbed "gamers". the term is stupid anyway as many things can be classified as 'games' and its players 'gamers' - but terminology aside, just because there is a broader market, doesn't mean anything has worsened.
in the OP's example, a friend who barely touches his consoles and handhelds in favor of mobile gaming, whether consciously or not, has found that he favors the mobile platform. typically this means more simplistic games, with pick up and playability. perhaps he'd rather have the option of distracting himself with something that requires no true time investment, because at any moment he can switch it off and put it in his pocket for later. he might not even realize that he's spending more time doing this than investing the time to pop in a disc (or simply boot up a console and launch a digital version), but the ability to instantly gratify, for him, is more... gratifying.
too cynical? yes. it's a bigger world, who cares what other people are doing with it...
in the OP's example, a friend who barely touches his consoles and handhelds in favor of mobile gaming, whether consciously or not, has found that he favors the mobile platform. typically this means more simplistic games, with pick up and playability. perhaps he'd rather have the option of distracting himself with something that requires no true time investment, because at any moment he can switch it off and put it in his pocket for later. he might not even realize that he's spending more time doing this than investing the time to pop in a disc (or simply boot up a console and launch a digital version), but the ability to instantly gratify, for him, is more... gratifying.
too cynical? yes. it's a bigger world, who cares what other people are doing with it...
There's a lot more to it than tedium. But are we honestly acting like people applaud the grinding in Destiny. Did you miss the endless hate those mechanics get?
Man, I wish that was true
I just can't wrap my head around why someone would prefer to play games like candy crush on a cellphone, at home, when they have a fucking game console sitting right there, I didn't mean to say those games are fake somehow.
Now you know how Dads feel when their children listen to that confounded rap music, or when kids today don't appreciate great authors like Roald Dahl but instead read Vampire Diaries or Twilight.
Times change; your tastes are no longer solely in fashion.
Can you imagine someone playing a console game when they have a PC to play on instead? Use the same logic and apply it one step farther down the ladder.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Did it ever cross your little mind that there might be more games on mobile than Candy Crush? For God's sakes, Kojima declared his 2014 GOTY to be a mobile game, and it wasn't Candy Crush or a F2P cash cow.
nkarafo
Member
That was my initial thought when mobile games started being successful. I couldn't help but thinking that i had played much better games like these on Newgrounds during the late 90's - early 00s.
Oppo
Member
I know, right. why would I read these comics when there's a big thick Tolstoy tome right over there.
The point of the OP is he (the friend) is admitting he is not getting enjoyment out of it (he said he wouldn't even think of getting a game like that on a console) and is instead doing the behavior (pulling out his phone and playing these games) compulsively. This is not a "oh he just likes it more even if he doesn't realize it" this is a symptom of operant conditioning.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning#Operant_hoarding
In operant conditioning you do things well past the point of pleasure and continue them even when you are not enjoying it. Mobile games like the OP is referring to are specifically designed like this to dig in the hooks and keep you playing. This is what the op is considering "bad" mobile games (he wholeheartedly admits there are plenty of good games that are well suited to mobile play he's exclusively referring to games like endless runners and candy crush knockoffs). The behavior is similar to gambling addictions but not quite as extreme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWtvrPTbQ_c
I couldn't be more happy with the choices gamers have in today's market. Everything from free mobile & PC flash games, all the way up through AAA productions...and everything in between.
Taking the hard-storage medium of cartridges/cd/dvd out of the equation, or at least not making it mandatory, has started a revolution of creativity & variety in the field. No longer shackled by publishers & middlemen calling the shots developers can deliver straight to the consumer through digital distribution. Games can be any size or price point. Ideas can be grand or intimate.
Screw the haters. There's quality experiences to be had at all levels of distribution. Be it mobile or super-computer.
Taking the hard-storage medium of cartridges/cd/dvd out of the equation, or at least not making it mandatory, has started a revolution of creativity & variety in the field. No longer shackled by publishers & middlemen calling the shots developers can deliver straight to the consumer through digital distribution. Games can be any size or price point. Ideas can be grand or intimate.
Screw the haters. There's quality experiences to be had at all levels of distribution. Be it mobile or super-computer.
nkarafo
Member
And we all must agree with this and accept the universal truth because Kojima said it.
I don't even like most Kojima games
TheSlySoul
Member
Smartphones host games that were on flash sites and PC years ago. Really no de-evolution has occurred. The only thing now is we are getting TV ads for them now.
It is easy to forget Alien Hominid and Catapult started off as flash games.
It is easy to forget Alien Hominid and Catapult started off as flash games.
I don't know, I feel the thread while being judgmental, is not just a hate thread, it would be cool if we could continue without this, imho.
Finale Fireworker
Member
Some good points have been brought up about your friends simply moving away from gaming.
Generally, there are three levels of entertainment. Low, medium, and high intensity. Low intensity is most sitcom comedies, most cartoons, and most mobile games. They don't require strict attention, they are very leisurely to enjoy, and they satisfy the entertainment indulgence without requiring energy from the viewer.
Medium is the next step up. It's entertainment that requires more attention to be paid to it. Topics are more complicated and usually aim for deeper stories, but not too complicated as to fatigue the viewer. Pretty much anything can be medium intensity. Television dramas like The Walking Dead, movies like Star Wars, and many games like Mario. It demands some concentration and focus from the viewer, but it's still a moderately leisurely.
High intensity is, as you can imagine, much more intense. This media requires your constant attention to understand and enjoy. Attention not only meaning your momentary attention to the broadcast, but sometimes meaning familiarity with the subject beyond the single experience. Many games, with their complex controls and difficulties, are high intensity. They require constant engagement from the player and take more time to properly enjoy. Most hour long HBO dramas fall into this category, with The Sopranos usually being the go-to example. If you miss an episode, you're behind. If you don't pay attention, you're confused. If you're not passionate, you're bored.
People's tastes in entertainment change a lot based on where they are in their lives. People with demanding full time jobs, or students, or people with families, are less likely and less able to seek out high-intensity entertainment. It asks too much of them and is too demanding after a long day of work or when you only have two hours to yourself.
Many people's tastes are dynamic and change constantly. The endless runner gamer who has stopped playing consoles may very well drop the runner in favor of the console experience as soon as he is allowed. And if you think of low to high intensity entertainment as being a diet, there is room for all three while still having a healthy entertainment consumption.
HOWEVER, like with all media, low intensity entertainment is usually mindless. People enjoy it because they can "turn their brain off." This is why it's popular and why people enjoy it so easily. This is also why it is endlessly parodied in other high intensity shows, which usually depict low intensity entertainment as nothing but fart jokes or people falling down.
If low intensity entertainment is the sugary candy of the entertainment diet, a consistent diet of only that will eventually make you sick. You are depriving yourself of entertainment nutrition. You are missing valuable entertainment experiences. You are not growing as an individual, at least not as far as your entertainment is concerned.
The problem with mobile gaming is that it is almost exclusively low-quality low intensity entertainment where people are turning off their brains to play it. It's the entertainment equivalent of eating an entire bag of fun size candy for dinner. This person is not only unaffected by more complex or advanced entertainment, but they have nothing to offer the medium because they know nothing about it. Just like the people who came out of Inception and said "it didn't make sense," or the people who came out of Inglorious Basterds because there was "too many subtitles" or the people who came out of Drive because "it was so boring." These people have not developed an appetite for more advanced media and, as a result, are usually unassociated with art.
I think the real concern is that people will become so accustomed to their low intensity games, just like they have their low intensity television shows and movies, that the majority of the population will not have the patience for games like Last of Us or Shadow of the Colossus or Portal. These are accustomed to the passive experience where the game, largely, plays itself. If this population becomes dominant, sales of more complex entertainment will suffer, and it will no longer be the focus of the industry.
Generally, there are three levels of entertainment. Low, medium, and high intensity. Low intensity is most sitcom comedies, most cartoons, and most mobile games. They don't require strict attention, they are very leisurely to enjoy, and they satisfy the entertainment indulgence without requiring energy from the viewer.
Medium is the next step up. It's entertainment that requires more attention to be paid to it. Topics are more complicated and usually aim for deeper stories, but not too complicated as to fatigue the viewer. Pretty much anything can be medium intensity. Television dramas like The Walking Dead, movies like Star Wars, and many games like Mario. It demands some concentration and focus from the viewer, but it's still a moderately leisurely.
High intensity is, as you can imagine, much more intense. This media requires your constant attention to understand and enjoy. Attention not only meaning your momentary attention to the broadcast, but sometimes meaning familiarity with the subject beyond the single experience. Many games, with their complex controls and difficulties, are high intensity. They require constant engagement from the player and take more time to properly enjoy. Most hour long HBO dramas fall into this category, with The Sopranos usually being the go-to example. If you miss an episode, you're behind. If you don't pay attention, you're confused. If you're not passionate, you're bored.
People's tastes in entertainment change a lot based on where they are in their lives. People with demanding full time jobs, or students, or people with families, are less likely and less able to seek out high-intensity entertainment. It asks too much of them and is too demanding after a long day of work or when you only have two hours to yourself.
Many people's tastes are dynamic and change constantly. The endless runner gamer who has stopped playing consoles may very well drop the runner in favor of the console experience as soon as he is allowed. And if you think of low to high intensity entertainment as being a diet, there is room for all three while still having a healthy entertainment consumption.
HOWEVER, like with all media, low intensity entertainment is usually mindless. People enjoy it because they can "turn their brain off." This is why it's popular and why people enjoy it so easily. This is also why it is endlessly parodied in other high intensity shows, which usually depict low intensity entertainment as nothing but fart jokes or people falling down.
If low intensity entertainment is the sugary candy of the entertainment diet, a consistent diet of only that will eventually make you sick. You are depriving yourself of entertainment nutrition. You are missing valuable entertainment experiences. You are not growing as an individual, at least not as far as your entertainment is concerned.
The problem with mobile gaming is that it is almost exclusively low-quality low intensity entertainment where people are turning off their brains to play it. It's the entertainment equivalent of eating an entire bag of fun size candy for dinner. This person is not only unaffected by more complex or advanced entertainment, but they have nothing to offer the medium because they know nothing about it. Just like the people who came out of Inception and said "it didn't make sense," or the people who came out of Inglorious Basterds because there was "too many subtitles" or the people who came out of Drive because "it was so boring." These people have not developed an appetite for more advanced media and, as a result, are usually unassociated with art.
I think the real concern is that people will become so accustomed to their low intensity games, just like they have their low intensity television shows and movies, that the majority of the population will not have the patience for games like Last of Us or Shadow of the Colossus or Portal. These are accustomed to the passive experience where the game, largely, plays itself. If this population becomes dominant, sales of more complex entertainment will suffer, and it will no longer be the focus of the industry.
nkarafo
Member
Yes, thank you. You explained it better than me. I do have difficulties expressing myself in a non-native language.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Fun is fun. It does not matter one bit if somebody is playing a "silly, mindless game" on their console, PC, or phone. Destiny (console) isn't any more "real" of a game than Hitman Go (mobile).
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The point wasn't that you have to accept what Kojima said and agree with his GOTY. The point was that mobile is a serious platform and needs to start being taken as such. There are genuinely good titles on mobile.And we all must agree with this and accept the universal truth because Kojima said it.
I don't even like most Kojima games
People are being small-minded about mobile games. I'm sorry, there's no way around it. Grow the hell up. There's worthwhile titles on it, and that's the reason why people would play when "they have a console at home." It's not because we're a bunch of idiot whales. It's because there are genuinely worthwhile titles to play. Anyone who suggests otherwise is an idiot.
He picked a corking game as well. FRAMED was great.
Come to think of it, '14 was a very good year for iOS.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Yep, playing games on mobile to pass the time doesn't mean that someone has devolved as a gamer, I play magic piano all the time even when my ps4 is turned on and sitting on the dashboard. It's relaxing.
Yeah, I edited my post, the 'shitty' part was not necessary. Sorry. But like I said, maybe I'm biased because I have serious doubt about ios gaming too, but I feel the thread is more than just blinded hate.
Since that quote was directed at me originally, just going to put it out here that I am not offended in any way by that,I have seen far worse ranging from simple insults to threats of sexual violence and death during my time in online games, Have a thicker skin than a lot of people in that regard.
And we all must agree with this and accept the universal truth because Kojima said it.
I don't even like most Kojima games
I think the point is this: these days, mobile games are selling incredibly well and are increasingly frequently winning critical awards.
At this point, we're essentially keeping mobile games out of our "gamer sphere of influence" through sheer force of will. A large section of the "core gamer" community will simply refuse to accept mobile games as legitimate even as the tide of success of mobile games crashes down around them.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Play Monster Girl Quest if you like sexy Monster Girls. 18+ though.
Besides the general inccuracies about ios/android games (plenty of deep strategy games are fantastic when designed for tablet play) I think the immediacy of play is a factor. When you're tired/bored/whatever, sometimes a game being one click away is better than sitting through three minutes of load screens/logos etc, even if you feel that the games beyond those load screens look and play several times better and cost you £40 more.
In a similar way, I still reach for my Vita over my home console more often than not as it's usually sitting on the table beside me, with a game in sleep mode ready to resume.
It might sound like utter laziness but I think that immediacy accounts for much of it, even amongst gamers with dedicated gaming systems in their living room.
In a similar way, I still reach for my Vita over my home console more often than not as it's usually sitting on the table beside me, with a game in sleep mode ready to resume.
It might sound like utter laziness but I think that immediacy accounts for much of it, even amongst gamers with dedicated gaming systems in their living room.
nkarafo
Member
But this is the point. These games that my friends play are not worthwhile. Even they can admit it. Sure, other times they play some good defense or strategy mobile games (these are great). But im talking about these few games i mentioned in the OP. There was nothing, i mean NOTHING worthwhile about that corridor shooter or the racing game. They just passively played those games, no expressions, no excitement, no nothing. While admitting that they would never play those on other platforms and while having similar (but much better) games on these other plarforms nearby.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Yeah, those idiot casual gamers being psychologically manipulated into playing games that aren't actually that good just to watch bars fill up, when they could be playing a real game and earning achievements.
There are a ton of great mobile games. Final Fantasies, Chaos Rings, Minecraft, Heck I would even call bad piggies a very well executed mobile game.
Maybe I'm misreading the thread but it seems like people are trying to talk specifically about "bad" mobile games and then being called out for calling all mobile games bad when that's not what they are referring to.
First off, I am abhorrently against the achievement system and have called it out on multiple occasions for being a glorified skinner box. A lot of MMO's fetch quests and loot drop systems are guilty of this as well. Second, yes some people are. It has nothing to do with being "stupid" or "casual" it's how operant conditioning works "the hardcorez" are just as susceptible to it as the "casuals". Look at people putting 150+ hours into Destiny and then telling people it's worst game they have ever played. You can condition certain behavior well past the point of enjoyment and a lot of badly designed mobile games are increasingly relying on this.
FonkyByNature
Member
Of course, i prefer a videogame with a real controller any day but smartphone games are not that bad, some are actually really fun. Puzzle and RPGs play great. Platformer and action games, not so much.
In my case, i don't carry my Vita anymore but i always have my smartphone with me and i do game on it from time to time. This is where smartphones win, ease of use and convinience.
In my case, i don't carry my Vita anymore but i always have my smartphone with me and i do game on it from time to time. This is where smartphones win, ease of use and convinience.
And the towers and fetchquests man. They're not going to climb and hand in themselves.
console games and to the most handheld games require large chunks of time. You can pause sure, but if I'm gonna play, say, metal gear solid game, I'd want a few hours open. Mobile games let me get in and out quickly. Handheld games used to scratch this itch... but most of them these days are pretty much console style games which is unfortunate.
Don't know about y'all, but its getting exceeding hard to find time to play games when you get older, so I tend to gravitate towards stuff you can get into quicker. Bang for your Time.
Don't know about y'all, but its getting exceeding hard to find time to play games when you get older, so I tend to gravitate towards stuff you can get into quicker. Bang for your Time.
TheSlySoul
Member
It is easy to forget the many PC games people loved (FTL, X-Com, Terraria) are now on mobile and consoles in the case of Terraria and X-Com.
The people who still think mobile games are low quality are missing the diamonds in the mineshaft. I am personally excited whenever the mobile port of Sonic 3 and Knuckles ever happens.
I have so many unplayed RPGs because I just do not have the time for them.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
The day you see iOS reviews erupting into flame wars amongst people who have never played the game in question because the game score wasn't high enough is the day mobile gaming has reached the same level of subtle psychological manipulation that the traditional gaming industry has.
Its also probably the day it is accepted as being as valid as traditional videogaming amongst the self professed gaming hardcore.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If you have doubts, visit the iOS thread in community. In the past year, we've had some amazing stuff. Monument Valley, FRAMED, Device 6, Threes! And 80 Days all quickly come to mind. If you actually do allow for F2P, there are some genuinely fun titles like Terra Battle & Puzzles and Dragons.
Besides original new stuff, we have worthwhile ports of games like Papers, Please, FTL, The Banner Saga, Hearthstone, Thomas was Alone and XCOM.
I haven't found too many phone games I've enjoyed. There's a couple, but it's rare. I'm not against them or jaded, it's just that most of them don't fit my tastes, that's all. I think it's getting better though, and who knows: when it clicks, it'll probably click hard.
They seem closer to the flash games you used to find on Armor Games and ebaumsworld back in the day.
They seem closer to the flash games you used to find on Armor Games and ebaumsworld back in the day.