I can't tell what's parody and what's real anymore.
I can't tell what's real from what's real.
This is by far the best update we've gotten so far either way, and it definitely trumps even a newcomer.
This was the funniest part of the quotes in the OP:
Heh. Pro players.
T
Heh. Pro players.
I'd like to imagine they were added when Sakurai was playing with someone better than him and got frustrated when the better player kept edgehogging him. He threw his controller down, swore in Japanese, and immediately went to the game's code to change things.
The premise of my argument that it impacts player habits too much because of how easy they are in 64, leading to a majority of the community being made up of shitty players that will take them ages to get better and understand the game on a fundamental level. When you've been playing the game for years and haven't made any significant improvements to your playstyle while others around you are improving (knowledge and flashiness), then obviously you should evaluate your situation and why you're so stagnant.The premise of your initial argument was that gimps are bad (generally) because there's more to the game than winning.
Who was restricting the discussion to the "competitive domain?" I didn't get that memo.. Also, no, I 100% disagree with the notion that "winning is what matters" because as I previously explained, tactics like those in 64 lead to shitty player habits that only lead you to becoming stagnant and predictable. If you really want to get better, you have to try new things and break out of your comfort zone, not back throw a Link off the ledge then edge hog him at low % because his recovery is ass and you want to win in a friendly..That's about as scrubby as it gets. Yes, there is more to any game than winning; but when the discussion is restricted to the competitive domain - winning is what matters. Not fun. Not nostalgic romanticisms regarding your roommates.
And this is the problem.. You're attacking me when you have little to no experience with the game. It's no different than those players who would attack me for saying the CE Pistol wasn't broken and that the gameplay for future Halo games should be modeled after CE.I feely admit to being largely ignorant to Smash 64, but nothing you've posted convinces me that you were any good, or knowledgable about the game, either.
lmfao Get prodigy and play me in teams in Smash 64. You'll see what's up man.Get real. Those players are pissing on your Cloud 9 from Cloud 10.
Button monkeys, they are. You're not real if you're not basking in Rosilina panty-shots versus discussing how the game will actually play.
I like how this thread is on track to outpace the (seemingly legitimate) Palutena leak thread.
The premise of my argument that it impacts player habits too much because of how easy they are in 64, leading to a majority of the community being made up of shitty players that will take them ages to get better and understand the game on a fundamental level. When you've been playing the game for years and haven't made any significant improvements to your playstyle while others around you are improving (knowledge and flashiness), then obviously you should evaluate your situation and why you're so stagnant.
In this case, victories shouldn't be as important as improving at the game, especially when there's no money involved. This is where I was coming from, just playing online friendlies day in and day out; the reality of Smash 64 for many years until it was brought into Apex or other tourneys over the past couple years.
Who was restricting the discussion to the "competitive domain?" I didn't get that memo.. Also, no, I 100% disagree with the notion that "winning is what matters" because as I previously explained, tactics like those in 64 lead to shitty player habits that only lead you to becoming stagnant and predictable. If you really want to get better, you have to try new things and break out of your comfort zone, not back throw a Link off the ledge then edge hog him at low % because his recovery is ass and you want to win in a friendly..
Button monkeys, they are. You're not real if you're not basking in Rosilina panty-shots versus discussing how the game will actually play.
Wow this post was aggressive.
The premise of my argument that it impacts player habits too much because of how easy they are in 64, leading to a majority of the community being made up of shitty players that will take them ages to get better and understand the game on a fundamental level. When you've been playing the game for years and haven't made any significant improvements to your playstyle while others around you are improving (knowledge and flashiness), then obviously you should evaluate your situation and why you're so stagnant.[/b]
In this case, victories shouldn't be as important as improving at the game, especially when there's no money involved. This is where I was coming from, just playing online friendlies day in and day out; the reality of Smash 64 for many years until it was brought into Apex or other tourneys over the past couple years.
Who was restricting the discussion to the "competitive domain?" I didn't get that memo.. Also, no, I 100% disagree with the notion that "winning is what matters" because as I previously explained, tactics like those in 64 lead to shitty player habits that only lead you to becoming stagnant and predictable. If you really want to get better, you have to try new things and break out of your comfort zone, not back throw a Link off the ledge then edge hog him at low % because his recovery is ass and you want to win in a friendly
And this is the problem.. You're attacking me when you have little to no experience with the game. It's no different than those players who would attack me for saying the CE Pistol wasn't broken and that the gameplay for future Halo games should be modeled after CE.
lmfao Get prodigy and play me in teams in Smash 64. You'll see what's up man.
I think the confusion here was from my talking about how players depending on simple gimps and easy edge hogs to kill people in 64 ruined the community as a means to justify this yet-to-be-fully-explained change to invincibility frames.You're conflating two things that have nothing to do with each other here for the sake of making your point. One should certainly expand their knowledge and not fall into habits in order to improve, but flashiness is something else entirely and not a relevant criterion to define the better player.
I agree that playing to learn is a thing, but ultimately it's about playing to learn things that allow you to win.
all you cheesers and unhonorable fighters need to read this and have some knowledge dropped on you
http://www.denofgeek.us/games/injus...g-us-cheesers-should-be-ashamed-of-themselves
Scrubby McScrubster said:This isn't me being a sore loser or a poor sport. I'm just another frustrated gamer who spent $60 on Injustice but is stuck with prominent cheesers stealing my wins from me. So, I'm asking all Injustice players to stop the cheesing. Forget your cheesing ways and learn some true strategy. Think about how much fun you're not having by just repeatedly spamming a gun shot, and how much fun you're taking away from your opponent.
It makes the community as a whole worse if they don't actively try to improve by using other tactics. How is this stupid to say when it should be so obvious? People learn how to fight against this, but when the majority of players play like that it just leads to stale gameplay.Yes, that was another premise... and it's worse. You're implying that using a tactic that aids in winning now - ultimately makes players worse at winning in the future. That couldn't be stupider if Nintendo wrote it.
I'd agree with you if you were being rational and highlighting what the fundamentals actually are ("spacing"? Thanks?) and not dismissing one fundament altogether based on the premise that it somehow makes you a worse player (lol).
It was quite easy to demonstrate with language why the pistol didn't break the game - it was just frustrating for newer players. Your stance is currently some ironic, inversion of the perspectives at war in that example.
It means that if you or prodigy want to say things like "scrubby" and insult my "skill" at the game, then let's play some games. The last thing I want to do is sound elitist, but I think if we played and I showed you what I was talking about while explaining it further, then you could get a better understanding of how abusable throws, edge hogs and the simplest of gimps made gameplay shitty. I'm not necessarily saying that'll it make players themselves worse, but it certainly won't make them as good as they could be. .I don't get it.
I think the confusion here was from my talking about how players depending on simple gimps and easy edge hogs to kill people in 64 ruined the community as a means to justify this yet-to-be-fully-explained change to invincibility frames.
Button monkeys, they are. You're not real if you're not basking in Rosilina panty-shots versus discussing how the game will actually play.
Glad to see some of the people in this topic realize that these mechanical changes could easily be very, very bad for Smash Bros. ledge game. I was getting sick of people in the main OT claiming that these were good changes made for competitive players when clearly they're neither of those things.
I'd like to imagine they were added when Sakurai was playing with someone better than him and got frustrated when the better player kept edgehogging him. He threw his controller down, swore in Japanese, and immediately went to the game's code to change things.
Button monkeys, they are. You're not real if you're not basking in Rosilina panty-shots versus discussing how the game will actually play.
]A game's community can't be ruined by people playing in a way they believe to be optimal. Either they are wrong, and someone is eventually able to make this obvious, thus advancing the metagame as others learn from what they brought to the table, or they are right, and the game is basically solved. In the process, it may degenerate into something that is no longer interesting, but in that case that's on the game. That's just what we do, try our hardest to break games, after all. The greatest ones remain worth playing without the players refusing to play to win.
Now if you're trying to say that relying on these things in 64 may hurt someone's ability to get better at another Smash game well that's just normal when you choose to be specialist. But if someone's game of choice is Smash 64 and they're dedicated to playing it competitively, it only makes sense that they'd take advantage of the kind of things that are specific to that game, since the fact that it wouldn't work in another game would not be a concern.
A game's community can't be ruined by people playing in a way they believe to be optimal. Either they are wrong, and someone is eventually able to make this obvious, thus advancing the metagame as others learn from what they brought to the table, or they are right, and the game is basically solved. In the process, it may degenerate into something that is no longer interesting, but in that case that's on the game. That's just what we do, try our hardest to break games, after all. The greatest ones remain worth playing without the players refusing to play to win.
I guess it was more personal than it needed to be because I've seen for so long how easy gimps can be bad for Smash 4. That's the thing here, Smash 64 recoveries were so terrible compared to Melee and Brawl, so really it's more of a secluded issue I have with gimps in that game.
Exactly.
Don't really have time to make a proper response, so thanks for that.
Every time I think about Smash, I'm reminded once again that I'll no longer be able to use this...
Nintendo should totally make a special edition of the game that comes with a redesigned, Gamecube-esque, Wii U Pro Controller.
They do have gamecube controller converters for the Wii U. I don't know if they're any good though or if the latency is noticeable.
Every time I think about Smash, I'm reminded once again that I'll no longer be able to use this...
Nintendo should totally make a special edition of the game that comes with a redesigned, Gamecube-esque, Wii U Pro Controller.
I actually have one of those, but it only enables the use of the Cube controller as a Wii Pro Controller...not a Wii U Pro Controller.
So unless Smash 4 supports the Wii Pro controller, I don't think it would work.
I'm hoping it uses the Pro controller. I just bought one and it works like a dream for VC games as well as 3D World.
It may not support the Wii Classic Controller Pro but I will be a little surprised if it doesn't support the Wii Classic Controller. If it does that, the adapter should work fine, no?
I'm saying they should create a totally redesigned Wii U Pro Controller that looks like a Cube controller (internals would be the same).If they did this, they'd have to make it truly wired because the current Pro Controller isn't wired even if you connect the USB cable to the Wii U while you're using it. This would be a big issue to Smash 4 tournaments... wireless interference and all, if it's not fixed.
Where'd you get this from?Also no more strong/weak getup animations/attacks.
I would've rather they kept it how it was and got rid of the incredible ledge snap of Brawl..
From Sakurai's last extra comment. He talks about "grab controls" will no longer depend on having more or less than 100% damage.Where'd you get this from?
Glad to see some of the people in this topic realize that these mechanical changes could easily be very, very bad for Smash Bros. ledge game. I was getting sick of people in the main OT claiming that these were good changes made for competitive players when clearly they're neither of those things.
I'd like to imagine they were added when Sakurai was playing with someone better than him and got frustrated when the better player kept edgehogging him. He threw his controller down, swore in Japanese, and immediately went to the game's code to change things.
Nintendo should totally make a special edition of the game that comes with a redesigned, Gamecube-esque, Wii U Pro Controller.
From Sakurai's last extra comment. He talks about "grab controls" will no longer depend on having more or less than 100% damage.
The only thing in Smash determined by having above or below 100% was your get up animations from the ledge (and also from knockdown state but that shouldn't relate to "grab controls" or the ledge game). If you had over 100% you had slower animations and a different, slower getup attack.
vGlad to see some of the people in this topic realize that these mechanical changes could easily be very, very bad for Smash Bros. ledge game. I was getting sick of people in the main OT claiming that these were good changes made for competitive players when clearly they're neither of those things.
I'd like to imagine they were added when Sakurai was playing with someone better than him and got frustrated when the better player kept edgehogging him. He threw his controller down, swore in Japanese, and immediately went to the game's code to change things.
^I can see where you're coming from but while this might change the ledge game up significantly we don't know what effect that'll have on the whole, the flow of each match yet. I'm not so sure I'm ready to chalk it up as a bad thing when we still know so little about the game and the subtleties to how it'll play compared to its predecessors.
From Sakurai's last extra comment. He talks about "grab controls" will no longer depend on having more or less than 100% damage.
The only thing in Smash determined by having above or below 100% was your get up animations from the ledge (and also from knockdown state but that shouldn't relate to "grab controls" or the ledge game). If you had over 100% you had slower animations and a different, slower getup attack.
I would be surprised if it wasn't supported. Smash Bros Brawl was compatible with every single control setup the Wii offered, I'm sure Smash 4 will share the "all controls" philosophy. Plus, other Nintendo games are still supporting the controller (SM3DW)So it wouldn't work on the Wii U game unless for some reason Sakurai supports the older Wii Classic Controller.
With the Dojo, I remember people generally finding that the translations were close to spot on. It's probably just strange or vague wording from the guy himself. That's a pure guess though, I don't know."Grab controls" is indeed odd wording. The whole thing is really. It's clearly some shit translation.
Does he release Japanese Miiverse comments that are actually his own words? Have any native Japanese speakers been able to take a look at it, preferably ones that are experienced Smash players, and perhaps offered a better translation?
Hilarious and fun to me was grabbing someone as donkey kong, running off the stage, then throwing them under it, and somehow getting back on. Smash was a game that was brilliant to me because of the impact that perfect timing could have. Wedging yourself in that perfect position to connect with the perfect move, etc etc. Letting some guy fall to his death in that game is just sad. If he's able to get back on the platform, then you need to kill him more and make that death proper, if you hit him hard enough, then he's not going to get back on anyway. Ledge grabbing is lame.
I agree with you for the most part. Keep in mind though that you're arguing with competitive smashers. It's easier to win in a tournament if you use the most effective tactic. They have to play that way to win. As casual smashers me and you both know it's lame and boring to get an edge grab kill. Good luck trying to get a competitive type to admit that. Luckily it seems like Sakurai and Co. know what's up. This improvement sounds like it will make it more difficult to get a lame kill. Making a regrettable part of the previous games more varied and fun? Sounds good to me.