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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

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S

Shinobix

Member
Taken from the new videos.

864x2kp.jpg

vs
8g5t2z4.jpg
 
S

Shinobix

Member
Also what's going on here? The three Pokemon at once? Shouldn't they have different costumes assuming there are 3 P.Trainers and one Yoshi?

6ya3of7.jpg
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Ooh.. the second commercial showed us clips of the Wario Ware stage. Is that the first we've seen how how the stage is actually going to work?
 
Aras

Aras

Member
I liked more the japanese cover u_u

and wtf!!! what are there squirtle, charizard and ivysaur doing there at the same time? =S (According to Shinobi's URL the three pokemon appear walking normally without using their FS)


maybe if there are three trainers and all of them have different pokes on the stage, they shouldn't change their colors at all o_O omg don't know, it just confuses me x_x
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Meloche said:
You get nothing, because you can't divide by zero. Short proof:

21 / 7 = 3
3 x 7 = 21

Those operations need to be reversible by the nature of multiplication and division. With zero, it doesn't work:

7 / 0 = ?
? x 0 = 7

It doesn't matter what ? is [assuming you're giving it an arbitrary value] because anything times zero is zero. You can't get back to 7, so the operation makes no sense. Hence, you cannot get an answer by dividing by zero. Answer = DNE [does not exist].
Click to expand...

While true, your "proof" is not a proof at all. That's a restatement of a property. "By the properties of multiplication and division, they must be reversible" is as supported as "By the properties of division, you can't divide by zero". Surely we can agree that "You can't divide by zero because the rules of division say you can't divide by zero" is not a proof.

The answer also cannot be "Does Not Exist", because that's mathematically ambiguous. The correct term is undefined. It is necessary to use this term, because you need to distinguish between the indeterminate form (0/0) and the undefined form (n/0 where n is nonzero)

In practice, Jiggy is actually right in his later reply. It is possible to divide by zero in a number system that allows such an operation. He's incorrect when he postulates that "imaginary numbers were invented" when in reality their properties are as well proven and simple to establish as real numbers.

When dealing with infinitesimal numbers, which are non-zero but for the purposes of a lay explanation equivalent to zero, it is possible to divide. Division by zero is also possible in matrix analysis. Advanced real analysis can do it. Obviously basic limits allow for an approximation of n/0. In practice, many functions which involved division by zero can be restated in such a way that they are calculable (although n/0 can trivially not be represented as such).

I highly recommend to anybody to do at least linear algebra and the first three or four calculus courses offered in university wherever they are. I'd also recommend any analysis course which covers Peano's postulates. Math is an exceptionally useful tool, but it requires a good deal of work before your mind can grasp the abstract elements necessary to real understand what the meaning of numbers and mathematical operations are.
 
S

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
So has anybody started freaking out about the exclusion of specific characters in the commercials yet? No Falcon?

I thought somebody would've come up with a conspirrusy theory about that by now.
 
A

AceBandage

Banned
SovanJedi said:
So has anybody started freaking out about the exclusion of specific characters in the commercials yet? No Falcon?

I thought somebody would've come up with a conspirrusy theory about that by now.
Click to expand...


Why?
They aren't showing a lot of characters. No Snake or Sonic even.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
SovanJedi said:
So has anybody started freaking out about the exclusion of specific characters in the commercials yet? No Falcon?

I thought somebody would've come up with a conspirrusy theory about that by now.
Click to expand...

I think they just went with showing the more popular franchises in Japan, showing Kirby and Pokemon characters almost exclusively. Who I would worry about is Luigi... they did show Yoshi and Mario, but then again I wouldn't mind if he was gone, really.
 
I

Innotech

Banned
ohamsie said:
I'm always amazed how many posts this topic has despite being on hiatus.
Click to expand...
Theres so much stuff to discuss about it we havent even caught up to the vacation spot really. Were still discussing shit they unveiled months ago :lol
 
K

KevinRo

Member
Stumpokapow said:
While true, your "proof" is not a proof at all. That's a restatement of a property. "By the properties of multiplication and division, they must be reversible" is as supported as "By the properties of division, you can't divide by zero". Surely we can agree that "You can't divide by zero because the rules of division say you can't divide by zero" is not a proof.

The answer also cannot be "Does Not Exist", because that's mathematically ambiguous. The correct term is undefined. It is necessary to use this term, because you need to distinguish between the indeterminate form (0/0) and the undefined form (n/0 where n is nonzero)

In practice, Jiggy is actually right in his later reply. It is possible to divide by zero in a number system that allows such an operation. He's incorrect when he postulates that "imaginary numbers were invented" when in reality their properties are as well proven and simple to establish as real numbers.

When dealing with infinitesimal numbers, which are non-zero but for the purposes of a lay explanation equivalent to zero, it is possible to divide. Division by zero is also possible in matrix analysis. Advanced real analysis can do it. Obviously basic limits allow for an approximation of n/0. In practice, many functions which involved division by zero can be restated in such a way that they are calculable (although n/0 can trivially not be represented as such).

I highly recommend to anybody to do at least linear algebra and the first three or four calculus courses offered in university wherever they are. I'd also recommend any analysis course which covers Peano's postulates. Math is an exceptionally useful tool, but it requires a good deal of work before your mind can grasp the abstract elements necessary to real understand what the meaning of numbers and mathematical operations are.
Click to expand...

Anyone who has finished basic College Algebra could have restated your post. Calculus is not needed for an understanding of these basic Mathematical concepts. Nor is remembering the definition of each Mathematical concept word by word(unless you're a math major). Also, if I remember correctly Calculus isn't even used in Discrete Mathematics. A freshmen in High School could understand a simple logic class as that.

Unless you're majoring in engineering or in a field that requires advanced mathematics please disregard the above quoted post. You will waste your time.
 
C

Conrad Link

Member
Well seeing the commercials have just made my carefully contained excitement explode all over the place.

:D

For some reason seeing them somehow makes the game feel more real... like, its actually coming out... soon! :O

ZOMG!

GAME OF THE FOREVER!

The time is almost upon us guys. *grouphug*
 
pulga

pulga

Banned
Math...why the fuck is there math in here? You guys are gonna make me cry.

And goddamit I can't get the PT video to load! I saw like 3 seconds in, and my first impression was that he has a hideously low poly-count. Doesn't really matter though, we'll barely get to see him up close most of the times.
 
J

Jiggy

Member
M3wThr33 said:
Wait! On that US box art, Kirby isn't angry!
Click to expand...
Sakurai does what Nintendon't!
Speaking of US box arts, I actually kind of like the Japanese one better because the background is colored as it is in Battlefield instead of just some generic blue shade.


Stumpokapow said:
[math and stuff]
Click to expand...
Hail numbers king. :eek:


Fireblend said:
Who I would worry about is Luigi...
Click to expand...
No. :p


pulga said:
math in here? You guys are gonna make me cry.
Click to expand...
Just you wait until the statistics page update! :D Which I'm predicting for Monday, by the way, along with Luigi, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness. We missed five days, so I figure five great updates in one shot should compensate. Oh yes.
 
L

Leezard

Member
AceBandage said:
Easily done. We just need to start up some controversy, like how Pichu was better than Fox.
Click to expand...

What? Are some people so ignorant they don't know Pichu is better than Fox?

There we go?
 
S

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
AceBandage said:
Why?
They aren't showing a lot of characters. No Snake or Sonic even.
Click to expand...

Well excuse ME for trying to save this topic from mafematical goosmafudge. :( I was hoping it would spur some more conversations on.
 
J

Jiggy

Member
AceBandage said:
Easily done. We just need to start up some controversy, like how Pichu was better than Fox.
Click to expand...
But the controversy has to be believable or else nobody will discuss it. :( [Edit: I guess I stand corrected.] Here, let's get started:


-Damage ratio 0.5 is the only way to play.
-Fox's reflector should be banned in Melee and should have been modified in Brawl to not do damage at all when touching opponents.
-Jigglypuff's Rest is broken.
-The Knee > any jumping Falcon Punch.
-Healing items are the only acceptable items.
-Healing items are the only unacceptable items.
-Zero Suit Samus doesn't deserve to be a playable character when they could have chosen a unique character from another game.
-Clones are awesome and should be encouraged.
-Stages without hazards shouldn't exist.
-Smash Bros. is not a fighting game, but a multiplayer action platformer.


There we go. :D
Actually, speaking of action platformers, I always wonder why it is that some people call Smash's gameplay shallow but enjoy normal platformers (e.g. Mario) and normal action games (e.g. Contra). I mean, they use even fewer buttons. >_>
 
H

HolyCheck

I want a tag give me a tag
a little off topic, but its near, who's going to tackle the all important official thread?
I'm expecting a blinder!
 
T

TreIII

Member
Chao said:
omgomg Brawl is ready for preorders at Play-Asia, but why is the japanese version more expensive than the US one?

Japanese= US$ 64.90
USA= US$ 59.90

Japanese version of a game is usually cheaper than the US one, why the opposite now?
Click to expand...

Brawl has been ready for pre-orders at play-asia for a couple of months now. They've just kicked it up because, well, they're coming soon. I pre-ordered my JP game soon after Thanksgiving. On another note, for any and all JP importers...hope y'all did so by now, or otherwise you may end up getting lunched by having to wait for another shipment.

As for the price? Well, I dunno where you've been looking, but the JP version of a game has ALWAYS been more expensive than its counter-parts. Even the "Asian" (China, HK, etc.) releases of the game are often cheaper than the JP version.

Jiggy37 said:
Actually, speaking of action platformers, I always wonder why it is that some people call Smash's gameplay shallow but enjoy normal platformers (e.g. Mario) and normal action games (e.g. Contra). I mean, they use even fewer buttons. >_>
Click to expand...

Probably because there are still a number of reasons to support that Smash certainly isn't a traditional fighting game (and it isn't). But just because it isn't, doesn't mean it ain't fun and have its own intricacies. I love my traditional fighting games, but I love Smash too, and I can appreciate that much about each type.

Syth_Blade22 said:
a little off topic, but its near, who's going to tackle the all important official thread?
I'm expecting a blinder!
Click to expand...

Between importers like me, JP residents like sp0rsky, I think there's plenty to cover once that topic does get off the ground.
 
C

Chao

Member
TreIII said:
Brawl has been ready for pre-orders at play-asia for a couple of months now. They've just kicked it up because, well, they're coming soon. I pre-ordered my JP game soon after Thanksgiving. On another note, for any and all JP importers...hope y'all did so by now, or otherwise you may end up getting lunched by having to wait for another shipment.

As for the price? Well, I dunno where you've been looking, but the JP version of a game has ALWAYS been more expensive than its counter-parts. Even the "Asian" (China, HK, etc.) releases of the game are often cheaper than the JP version.
Click to expand...

Oh right right, that was my mistake, it's the Asian version which is cheaper, not the Japanese. For a second I confused one with the another.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
Jiggy37 said:
But the controversy has to be believable or else nobody will discuss it. :( [Edit: I guess I stand corrected.] Here, let's get started:


-Damage ratio 0.5 is the only way to play. what? why?
-Fox's reflector should be banned in Melee and should have been modified in Brawl to not do damage at all when touching opponents. hmmm....it wont be as big a deal in brawl since there is no wavedashing
-Jigglypuff's Rest is broken. no, the nap afterwards makes it ok i guess
-The Knee > any jumping Falcon Punch. it does feel better to hit someone with the knee
-Healing items are the only acceptable items. never heard this one....but in melee if you turned them on you also got capsules and such... so hard to maintain
-Healing items are the only unacceptable items.ive played without hammers and hearts before so maybe some people believe this? i personally prefer all items for fun matches and no items for serious 1 on 1s
-Zero Suit Samus doesn't deserve to be a playable character when they could have chosen a unique character from another game. the more characters the better, i hope ssz is choosable from the menu since you can only get her after the samus final smash. (or alt least a way to start with her in a match, like with shiek)
-Clones are awesome and should be encouraged.
-Stages without hazards shouldn't exist. yes they should, i doubt anyone would support not having at least one hazard free stage :p
-Smash Bros. is not a fighting game, but a multiplayer action platformer. wow.... maybe not a traditional fighting game but a platformer.... i dunno :)


There we go. :D
Actually, speaking of action platformers, I always wonder why it is that some people call Smash's gameplay shallow but enjoy normal platformers (e.g. Mario) and normal action games (e.g. Contra). I mean, they use even fewer buttons. >_>
Click to expand...

there
 
J

Jiggy

Member
TreIII said:
Probably because there are still a number of reasons to support that Smash certainly isn't a traditional fighting game (and it isn't). But just because it isn't, doesn't mean it ain't fun and have its own intricacies. I love my traditional fighting games, but I love Smash too, and I can appreciate that much about each type.
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is: even if a person could argued that Smash is "shallow" compared to other fighting games, it's absolutely not shallow compared to several other genres, like 2D platformers, shmups, run 'n guns, most top-down adventure games, etc.



amtentori said:
-The Knee > any jumping Falcon Punch. it does feel better to hit someone with the knee
Click to expand...
Yeah, really. :( Actually, I think the Falcon Punch is one of those rare moves that was handled better in the original game... the sound effect and the pose in Melee both seem kind of wussy.
 
J

JonathanEx

Member
Oooh, we're almost hitting the big 1000 pages. I'm expecting Jiggy to give us thread stats, and soon enough, stats on stats. How many of his posts have been stats based? :p
 
M

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Jiggy37 said:
What I'm saying is: even if a person could argued that Smash is "shallow" compared to other fighting games, it's absolutely not shallow compared to several other genres, like 2D platformers, shmups, run 'n guns, most top-down adventure games, etc.



Yeah, really. :( Actually, I think the Falcon Punch is one of those rare moves that was handled better in the original game... the sound effect and the pose in Melee both seem kind of wussy.
Click to expand...

Most sound effects were better in 64. Those nice chunky hits and all. It seems that the Brawl team agrees with this sentiment as the sound effects are a lot more robust this time around.

I wonder if NoA will license the lightsaber noise this time around or play it safe again.
 
T

TreIII

Member
Jiggy37 said:
What I'm saying is: even if a person could argued that Smash is "shallow" compared to other fighting games, it's absolutely not shallow compared to several other genres, like 2D platformers, shmups, run 'n guns, most top-down adventure games, etc.
Click to expand...

But there's the rub.

If you try to classify it as a fighter, obviously it's rather shallow in comparison. On the other hand, try to compare it to a platformer, or what-have-you, is a rather difficult thing to do, thanks to how Smash Bros. is one of those "genre benders" that makes it a trial to really classify it as any thing.

To make things easy, I just go with the official web site. It calls SSBB/DSBX an "Action" game, so I'll grade it as an Action game. :D

Yeah, really. :( Actually, I think the Falcon Punch is one of those rare moves that was handled better in the original game... the sound effect and the pose in Melee both seem kind of wussy.
Click to expand...

Heh...on another note, I really hope that one of Falcon's taunts is a "Falcon Punch-fake".

I mean, think how well it would lend to mind games, if Falcon could be like..."Falcon....! *stop immediately* Kakatta ga!! (Tricked ya!)" and then could immediately go into another move? :lol
 
J

Jiggy

Member
JonathanEx said:
Oooh, we're almost hitting the big 1000 pages. I'm expecting Jiggy to give us thread stats, and soon enough, stats on stats. How many of his posts have been stats based? :p
Click to expand...
71% too few. :(


Man God said:
Most sound effects were better in 64. Those nice chunky hits and all. It seems that the Brawl team agrees with this sentiment as the sound effects are a lot more robust this time around.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but the Falcon Punch is especially noteworthy because it went from POWWW to screee. It was one of Melee's very weakest sound effects.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
I haven't really been following this thread because of the vacation but reading back over what I missed brings back lots of school bus memories (Missingno and the Pokemon rumors mainly). Jiggy, I must also commend you on the stats that you've done since the break began.

Anyway, I'm going to get an early start on my prediction for the 7th. Game Mode: Arcade
It will confirm a bunch of minigames that you unlock in SSE and show a virtual arcade that you walk through and can play the all of the unlocked games. Games like Balloon Fight and Ice Climbers will also be included.
 
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