Oh man Smash 3DS won't be compatible with the 3DS? those fucking 2DS users are so lucky
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Smash Brothers 3DS will support the C-stick on New 3DS but NOT the Circle Pad Pro
- Thread starter duckroll
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Oh man Smash 3DS won't be compatible with the 3DS? those fucking 2DS users are so lucky
Well there is an obvious technical limitation. In my post above I explain what it would need to do to work, Smash could probably detect what type of 3DS it's in and change implementation but that's adding code complexity where the hardware would normally step in. But I think that's not a huge problem, the bigger one is Smash would need both CPP and Amiibo NFC support but since they use the IR port it can only have one. Granted you could add a software toggle but that's really weird to have to toggle between CPP and Amiibo and only on older devices. People would be equally confused and upset. I think had the New 3DS not existed it wouldn't have right-stick support in the first place. I'm sure the simplification based on UX and time was that few people owned the CPP and it's functionality is absolutely unnecessary, but Amiibo is a corner-stone of new strategy and so that's what you get. The New 3DS handles both so it's not an issue.
Hale-XF11
Member
I'm actually more concerned with the layout of the Z triggers on the New 3DS (assuming I ever buy one). They look awfully awkward to reach properly and comfortably. Although I do wonder if I'm gonna wish I had a c-stick equivalent on my OG 3DS, especially since I own a CPP and find it very comfortable to use.
SuperDowns
Banned
It's very useful for aerials, since it lets you attack in the opposite direction of how you're moving in the air.
Also very useful if you're using the control stick for something else like wavedashing.
OhHeyBrian
Neo Member
Generally only when I'm fighting other players as it's quicker for the smash attacks. Tapping X and then hitting down on the c-stick for players like dedede is more reliable than having to hold down on the directional pad and a. C-stick also doesn't (usually) change your momentum so that helps, though you can do the same without the c-stick too just takes practice.
Zero-Crescent
Member
They wouldn't even need to bother emulating. They'd just need a sort of wrapper; just something that tricks the game into thinking "Hey, a CPP is connected" and allows it to access the existing CPP APIs. At the end of the day, xyz data is xyz data, and it's doubtful that they used anything special with the CPP's movement data.
(IANACSM, so I'm just going on what very little I know about I/O communications)
I get this, but it doesn't seem entirely insurmountable to me. Can an installed CPP be detected by a CPP-supporting game? What I guess I'm wondering is if either peripheral can identify itself to a 3DS depending on which one is connected. If so, a really dedicated player could switch peripherals as needed.
Maybe but I doubt it. The IR peripheral interface probably wasn't built with device identification in mind. But really it's not a matter of being insurmountable, it's just a matter of how much value it provides. The number of people with a CPP that would actually use it for Smash is very small and they already have a clear upgrade path if they desire that functionality. Given that 3DS Smash has already seen a delay this is an easy target to cut due to low cost/gain.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Well I'm glad that I waited to get a 3DS. I'll hold off until the N3DS is released in America.
This is looking more and more like a GameBoy Color sort of situation.
This is looking more and more like a GameBoy Color sort of situation.
Femmeworth
Banned
That's some BS. It can't be that costly to implement the circle pad pro.
I feel really bad for all 4 Circle Pad Pro owners out there. How many games supported it?
Either way, I've had my XL for less than a year. I'm not getting a "NEW" 3DS anytime soon (I'm not a C-Sticker, but a portable Xenoblade'd've been wonderful... if it was on a model I already owned). Thanks Nintendo.
Either way, I've had my XL for less than a year. I'm not getting a "NEW" 3DS anytime soon (I'm not a C-Sticker, but a portable Xenoblade'd've been wonderful... if it was on a model I already owned). Thanks Nintendo.
sixteen-bit
Member
Well historically most people that played Smash did so without a GameCube controller so I don't think there's much of a discover to be found here.
Also here's the obvious solution:
In this mod both the GCN directional analog stick and d-pad are mapped to the 2DS's d-pad. Won't be very effective for Smash.
Google translate is fucking awful at reading japanese. You are flat out wrong.
Maintenance
Member
Right, of a product that they released? FFS. By the same logic they should cancel the Wii U and launch a new home console next year, since that would discourage buying shitty home consoles.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
All demo's played of Smash 3DS never used a second stick and all impressions have people saying it controls just fine. We don't even know how the C-Stick will function on n3DS for the game other than assuming it'll be used like it was in Brawl/Melee which really just gave you another way of doing things you can do with the buttons. When Smash comes out next month and people actually get their hands on it and play it this thread wont even be remembered.
Flying0Dutchman
Member
WiiSpeak all over again! They obviously could support it if they wanted to, but this is Nintendo- they've pulled this kind of stuff before. Like trying to tell us the Wii couldn't handle Peach as a playable character in NSMBwii LOL.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
Not many:
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate
Ace Combat: Assault Horizon Legacy (Japanese version only)
Resident Evil: Revelations
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Kid Icarus: Uprising
Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance
Dynasty Warriors VS
Nano Assault EX
One Piece Unlimited World RED
Samurai Warriors Chronicles 2nd
Steel Diver: Sub Wars
And all of these play perfectly fine w/o it.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
Its still possible though. And again assumptions. We dont know how the cstick is going to work.
loaf of bread
Member
Does the new 3DS basically confirm that Nintendo's next hardware will be unified between handheld and console and the new 3DS is just to fill the gap for the new hardware in probably 2 or 3 years.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
I wonder if they are actually worried that CPP support would hurt NEW 3DS sales.
Juke Joint Jezebel
Member
Give me the support of a bigger right hand stick over scanning some plastic figure any day. Just lift the 3DS out of the CPP when you need to scan something, it only holds the 3DS in with rubber pads. Problem solved. Nintendo must be oblivious to the idea of people doing that!
Sometimes Nintendo really comes up with fucked up decisions, so this could be one of it. I hope this is only because of Smash and other games like Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate won't be affected.
I think you're on the right track wrt value, but I'm beginning to doubt it's an issue of cutting something due to low cost/gain.
After thinking through my earlier question on identifying an IR-connected peripheral and considering Nintendo's typical game design, they probably (IMO, quite rightly) decided it would be pretty awful to ask players to detach the CPP to use Amiibos. Given they consider Amiibos to be important to Smashreasonable, given the hype they've receivedthey opted to flat-out not support CPP on the 3DS because it blocks Amiibos unless you (quite cumbersomely) remove it. But on the New 3DS, which doesn't require IR use to use the CPP, they can bring in that second stick without user pain.
(I am understanding IR port use correctly, aren't I? When installed, the CPP blocks IR from being used by anything else? And the Amiibos support the traditional 3DS via IR, and the New 3DS via NFC?)
It's the fact that they have a way for everyone to be able to use a "c-stick" and they delegate that feature to their new iteration of the same handheld.
TheBaldEmperor
Member
Sure they played fine. Those that I played (bold) from that list were better for having the CPP.
C-stick was in vs. mode for Melee and in the entire game for Brawl. They were slightly weaker than using the movement sticks but they are a lot slower than just pushing a stick in a direction. Not to mention that I am completely used to that play style.
But again, its still bullshit that only the new handhelds get something the old ones don't when the old ones have a way to use it.
Why go through all this trouble when you can get the game on consoleWell historically most people that played Smash did so without a GameCube controller so I don't think there's much of a discover to be found here.
Also here's the obvious solution:
Casual players wont care. Anyone that wants to get good at the game 3ds version will have a huge disadvantage vs new3DS users
Sounds about right. Amiibo useage friction is likely intolerable from a strategic business standpoint which is likely another reason why the New 3DS even exists. They are betting hard on Amiibo as a long-term prospect, not supporting a pretty much dead peripheral to meet that end I think is highly reasonable to them.
Assuming everything works the same. But even if not I imagine the CPP stick has higher latency too and there's probably a bunch of people who will swear up and down it gives clear advantages. This sort of peculiar micro-optimization isn't really worth addressing, if the community really thinks it matters they'll address it with honor rules.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
Marginally. I beat Revelations on regular and infernal without the CPP by mapping the camera to abxy then played it again on my PS3 with Dual Analog controls and felt no difference whatsoever. Same w/ Monster Hunter since i double dipped on 3DS and WiiU everything functioned exactly the same. Some people just dont like to adjust even though the functionality is practically the same.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
How so? Do you know how the cstick works on Smash? Please enlighten me because from what i know we have no confirmed uses for it other than itll be supported.
callmeJackz
Member
Well considering they showed footage that it supports smash attacks, I guess that's safe to say yes, we know how it works.
ArcaneFreeze
Member
What footage is that? All demo units have been on the standard 3ds and i dont recall them showing smash after the n3ds reveal in the direct, only before it.
Edit: my mistake they did show smash, but no cstick controlls, the only time they showed the cstick in use was camera control for monster hunter.
callmeJackz
Member
Iwata was talking about the 3DS C stick and showed various games it's being used in. Mostly camera stuff but then it showed Smash. It went MH4G, Dragon Quest X, Final Fantasy, then finally Smash with Mario quick smashing Greninja off the stage. It was in the direct.
You try playing Kid Icarus left handed high level play without it.
And Sub Wars is so much better with the CPP.
EDIT: Galaxy Force 2 also supported it.
This is all types of messed up tbqh.
Is it because of latancy issues? Because Nintendo can't be daft enough to believe CCP support in SSB4 would cut into sales of the n3DS. They can't be.
I use the c-stick all the time for aeriels, so this p much confirms I can't go for high level play in the 3DS version. Ah well, super casual it is.
I'm getting a n3DS anyway, so whatevs.
Is it because of latancy issues? Because Nintendo can't be daft enough to believe CCP support in SSB4 would cut into sales of the n3DS. They can't be.
I use the c-stick all the time for aeriels, so this p much confirms I can't go for high level play in the 3DS version. Ah well, super casual it is.
I'm getting a n3DS anyway, so whatevs.