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So Dark Souls II [PC] is launching in less then a month and there's no footage of it.

Grief.exe

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If that actually happened, I would hope we would get a patch.

You know the inevitable current-gen versions would both be directly based upon the existing PC version.
We also know that even mid-range PCs are far more capable than either current-gen console, so it is not a question of performance.
 

TheGrue

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For those talking about how level design for DS1 is far superior to DS2, can you explain this a little? I've played both and DS2 seems like more of the same to me in that regard. People are saying there is no interconnection, but you can run from the starting area to later areas if you wanted to, though with bonfire travel, not sure why you'd do it. Even DS1 eventually had bonfire travel in the game. I personally like it because it makes moving from area to area much quicker. But anyway, what was so great about level design in DS1 that isn't around in DS2?
 

CadetMahoney

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Probably going to be another terrible port.
Full price for yet another half-assed version is a no-go.
Shitty port once more. Two times in a row after endlessly saying how the PC version was leading? That's would be just borderline pathetic.


From had better not screw this one up, the minimum is to just have a normal PC port, not a Durante required version. They would become a laughing stock, with insane 100 page threads. They're already on thin ice as it is.
 
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So the "PC lead" thing has been thrown out of the window, right? This is now a PC port? Where was it mentioned that PC was being the lead? Was it ever mentioned again?

Damn, the tension. Looking forward for the report, whenever that comes.
 

Pie and Beans

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So the "PC lead" thing has been thrown out of the window, right? This is now a PC port? Where was it mentioned that PC was being the lead? Was it ever mentioned again?

Damn, the tension. Looking forward for the report, whenever that comes.
PC lead was the small Dark Souls 2 Demo Area that probably doesn't exist outside of the PR circuit!

If I wanted to be an especially cruel conspiracy pusher, I'd say the Dark Souls 2 Mansion of the Dragons Demo was made by the FROM A-team as a target to hit before being handed off to the B-team to recreate while they busy themselves with the constantly rumoured PS4 title. Whoops I just did. Howzat for a theory with no substance behind it but a delicious morsel of "maaaaaaaaaaybe!"
 

Schweinehund

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PC lead was the small Dark Souls 2 Demo Area that probably doesn't exist outside of the PR circuit!

If I wanted to be an especially cruel conspiracy pusher, I'd say the Dark Souls 2 Mansion of the Dragons Demo was made by the FROM A-team as a target to hit before being handed off to the B-team to recreate while they busy themselves with the constantly rumoured PS4 title. Whoops I just did. Howzat for a theory with no substance behind it but a delicious morsel of "maaaaaaaaaaybe!"
Has there been any recent news about that project? Hoping it materializes at this year's e3.
 

Calamari41

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For those talking about how level design for DS1 is far superior to DS2, can you explain this a little? I've played both and DS2 seems like more of the same to me in that regard. People are saying there is no interconnection, but you can run from the starting area to later areas if you wanted to, though with bonfire travel, not sure why you'd do it. Even DS1 eventually had bonfire travel in the game. I personally like it because it makes moving from area to area much quicker. But anyway, what was so great about level design in DS1 that isn't around in DS2?
Speaking for myself, I wanted something more along the lines of for example being able to get to the Shrine of Amana through a hidden back exit in No-Man's Cove, or have the Grave of Saints be at the far bottom of the Cathedral of Blue, and opening up to the Gutter. (The Cathedral to Gutter thing would actually be some cool lore, like everyone gives their dead to the Cathedral for an honored internment, but then it turns out that they're just dumping everything except the Saints into a pit in their basement). Things like that. Instead we basically have a bunch of straight paths, some of which are accessible at the same time. This does make it open, since you can pick which path to go down, but it doesn't make it interconnected in a sense that lets you really take shortcuts or go to later-game areas to risk your life for good loot.

The map is a series of straight lines branching out from a central point, rather than the levels all folding over each other and linking to each other like in DS1. The only thing like this in DS2 is the ability to essentially cutscene-teleport to the Bastille from two different locations.

I say this as someone who loves DS2, by the way. The connection is just something I miss from DS1.
 

CadetMahoney

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They are intentionally sabotaging the PC version by intentionally removing all the shots of the game with the advanced effects.

The namco rep said the game looked "pretty much the same" as the console version he was streaming but with higher resolution and framerate.
 

Eusis

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The fact that we won't ever see that demo as a full game is just sad, honestly.

Dark Souls 2 Looking Glass Knight - Before and After (Demo Vs. Retail Graphics Comparison)
Fuck's sake, people weren't kidding about Danganronpa spoilers being all over the fucking internet if one of the recommended videos SEEMS to be one. I guess at least it was an out of context enough video name to not really give too much away, except maybe when said event draws near maybe. But still, fucking absurd.

... Anyways, I honestly don't notice any kind of difference I REALLY care about, though it didn't help I only switched to 720p later on in the video. I think the Knight being darkened could be argued as an artistic license because you're fighting in dark, stormy conditions and that is meant to be a reflective suit of armor, not one made of ivory.
 

soontroll

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... Anyways, I honestly don't notice any kind of difference I REALLY care about, though it didn't help I only switched to 720p later on in the video. I think the Knight being darkened could be argued as an artistic license because you're fighting in dark, stormy conditions and that is meant to be a reflective suit of armor, not one made of ivory.
You can't be serious...
 

Eusis

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You can't be serious...
Well, key phrase IS "I care about", and a good chunk look more like just arbitrary visual changes, such as the soul orbs and to an extent the fog gate. A second view does show some effects downplayed IE the PhysX-esque banners and the more visible rain splashes on the Knight, but I feel like this is the kind of stuff I can only even really notice when I'm not actively playing the game, or possibly inversely NEED to be playing this version on the same TV to really care. There is the better view of the skybox initially too, but that seems largely due to a change in the camera angle while locking on.
 

rogerroger22

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For those talking about how level design for DS1 is far superior to DS2, can you explain this a little? I've played both and DS2 seems like more of the same to me in that regard. People are saying there is no interconnection, but you can run from the starting area to later areas if you wanted to, though with bonfire travel, not sure why you'd do it. Even DS1 eventually had bonfire travel in the game. I personally like it because it makes moving from area to area much quicker. But anyway, what was so great about level design in DS1 that isn't around in DS2?
I don't think it's superior - it's a different approach to world design / level design. I think you need to consider the two as separate (but related) things.

Demon's Souls - World design is hub & spoke - you have the nexus, you have branches - and each individual branch is well designed. Most of them twist and turn upon themselves, opening up short cuts/etc. The 'world design' doesn't exist as much in Demon's Souls as each arch stone feels like it's own little fragment and you don't get too much of a sense of the world it is in. There is some - but not much.

Dark Souls - Interlocking world design - especially for the first 2/3rds of the game. Not only do the levels have twists/short cuts/etc within them, but the world itself is laid out in this way and there are many ways to navigate around it. Use the master key - and quite a bit opens up.

The flow of Undead Burg->Parish->Lower Burg->Depths->Blight Town is pretty fantastic, toss in things like Darkroot Garden/Baisen, how things link up with Valley of the Drakes, New Londo Ruins, etc. It is a much tighter world-design.

However, once you get the lord vessel - this starts to falter a bit, feels like a bit of a slog to get through - and you end up with the 'linear branch with a bonfire at the end'. Even though individually some of those levels are great - I like dukes, catacombs/tomb of the giants, etc (although Demon's Ruins/Lost Izalith lacks)

When I think of 'Level Design' - it's more of segment of an area, and not how it interlocks with others. Undead Burg as a level, The Depths, Blight Town, Sens Fortress, etc.

Dark Souls II - World design falls back more towards Demon's Souls Hub & Spoke - you do get one or two loop-back type things -
The Lost Bastille connects to both No Mans Warf and Forest of Fallen Giants
- but generally speaking the paths leading out from Majula are pretty linear - they branch and split off, but don't really loop back on themselves in 'clever and interesting ways'.

It's not like
Shrine of Amana
has a creative way of linking back to
No Mans Warf
or anything like that - and given how far away Heides Tower of Flame looks from Majula - your run there seems awfully short.

Even within a branch - instead of a neat way of connecting segment 1 to segment 2 - it tends to be more 'long elevator ride'.

That said, for level design - as in individual areas as stand-alone bits, not how they all interconnect with each-other - I think as a whole, DKSII is on par with, if not better than DKSI.

There are a few areas that I did find a little lackluster -
Forest of Fallen Giants
is kind of neat, but pales to say Boletarian Palace or Undead Burg.
The Lost Bastille
is actually pretty neat - and quite a bit to poke around and explore, but it did leave me wishing that
Sinners Rise and Belfy Luna
were more fully realized levels.

No Mans Warf
is actually a pretty cool level - needing to ring the bell to call in the ship, and even the touch of
the water level during the boss fight rising and falling the longer you take
is kind of spiffy.

Some of the later game levels though - I really, really like -
Iron Keep, Drangelic Castle, Shine of Amana, Undead Crypt, Dragon Aerie, Dragon Shrine
- and to me, the strength/quality are good enough to be 'ok.... so there are a few weak ones' - not like ever area in Dark Souls was a winner either (looking at you Lost Izalith). There is also something I rather like about
The Gutter and The Black Gulch
.

One thing I do wish that the levels did more often was 'explore around, open up a short-cut that loops back to the same bonfire' - this only happens once or twice in the game and more of the levels feel a bit like a linear-line with one bonfire not that far away from the previous one and not needing to have to 'explore' that much to find it.

It was pretty rare that I got that sense of bonfire tension and thinking "Damn, I have 50k souls on me - I just cleared an area, and no idea where the next bonfire is - do I retreat to safety and spend, or push forward?" (this only happened twice really) - where as I found that feeling happening frequently in Dark Souls, or in Demon's Souls once you opened up the shortcut. Instead it was more 'oh hey, another bonfire...', not 'oh thank god! finally a bonfire'.

In some ways - Dark Souls II is a bit of an inverse of Dark Souls I. Assuming you didn't start with the master key - there is a pretty linear path to follow (minor tweaks depending on what you want to do,...) but it was pretty much: - Burg, Parish, Lower Burg, Depths, Blight Town, Sense (maybe a stop-by the Catacombs before hand), Anor Londo - then branching out into a few different paths (Dukes, Tomb of the Giants, New Londo, Demon's Ruins/Lost Izalith).

Dark Souls II flips this around - your early game has a few branches. Well, there are two main branches at the start -
Heide's Tower of Flame, Forest of Fallen Giants
. Then shortly after - many more branches start to open up until you get funneled into a little bit more of a linear progression.

All around I think this works a little better - as it makes the game feel a little more purposeful and a bit of brisker pace. Instead of getting The Lord Vessel and (for me) - feeling like all of the momentum starts to taper off mid/late game - despite having some great areas to go through. It really feels like woot! I unlocked
The Shrine of Winter
and things start to pick up with some of the best levels that the series has to offer.

I love all 3 games, and Demon's Souls is probably my favorite (and maybe why I'm a bit more receptive to the hub & spoke design and sort of 'fast warping' from the start - as that's pretty much what arch-stones are) - and I think that DKSII tried to bridge some of the design ideas from Demon's Souls and Dark Souls - some elements worked better than others, but all around I'd say it's a different approach than Dark Souls - and I'd have a hard time saying it's better or worse.
 

soontroll

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Well, key phrase IS "I care about", and a good chunk look more like just arbitrary visual changes, such as the soul orbs and to an extent the fog gate. A second view does show some effects downplayed IE the PhysX-esque banners and the more visible rain splashes on the Knight, but I feel like this is the kind of stuff I can only even really notice when I'm not actively playing the game, or possibly inversely NEED to be playing this version on the same TV to really care. There is the better view of the skybox initially too, but that seems largely due to a change in the camera angle while locking on.
I'm not concerned with what you care about w.r.t the visuals. My comment was about your idea that they were artistic changes. Half the light sources are missing. Reflections on the actual mirror are non-existent - it's now just black. The armour looks like plastic and that's not because the area is dark. You can even see the old reflections reappearing as glitches near the end. I don't think it's artistic design to keep the old model in there.
 

Schweinehund

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So, I mean, I haven't really read into all the reasons why the lighting wasn't implemented besides hardware issues on consoles, so was the lighting actually finished for all areas of the game? Or just what they were showcasing.

If it's the former, the pc version should have it, the latter I won't be too upset if there is no lighting in the pc version.
 

CountAntonius

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So the "PC lead" thing has been thrown out of the window, right? This is now a PC port? Where was it mentioned that PC was being the lead? Was it ever mentioned again?

Damn, the tension. Looking forward for the report, whenever that comes.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks if we get a higher res better running version of the console one it meant they scrapped some amazing finished version of the PC and began porting over the console version. PC was lead cuts probably were made across all 3 like in damn near every cross platform title. Isn't it usually the case that the weakest hardware holds back all versions?

So, I mean, I haven't really read into all the reasons why the lighting wasn't implemented besides hardware issues on consoles, so was the lighting actually finished for all areas of the game? Or just what they were showcasing.

If it's the former, the pc version should have it, the latter I won't be too upset if there is no lighting in the pc version.

Nobody knows for sure. But what we do know is they had many complaints about how dark the game was in the beta and decided not to make lighting factor in as much as they had planned before. Seems what happened was that was a change made late in the development and instead of retexturing the parts of the world that were supposed to be dark they said oh well and released those ugly textures that were never meant to seen in this light.
 

Garcia

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So, I mean, I haven't really read into all the reasons why the lighting wasn't implemented besides hardware issues on consoles, so was the lighting actually finished for all areas of the game? Or just what they were showcasing.

If it's the former, the pc version should have it, the latter I won't be too upset if there is no lighting in the pc version.
We can only speculate about what the current (and probably final) state of the PC version is. The console version of the game still has the dynamic lighting when you light a torch. Some parts of the game glitch and bring back the original lighting; this is also seen during the cutscenes that play before a boss fight.

There is absolutely no way to know if the lighting will be brought back at all, let alone if it will be present throughout the whole game. We have to wait for actual footage before we proceed to do further scrutiny.

Judging by the way things have developed it is much safer to assume we won't be getting any lighting back into the game, just "stable" framerate, support for higher resolutions and uncompressed textures.
 

Eusis

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I'm not concerned with what you care about w.r.t the visuals. My comment was about your idea that they were artistic changes. Half the light sources are missing. Reflections on the actual mirror are non-existent - it's now just black. The armour looks like plastic and that's not because the area is dark. You can even see the old reflections reappearing as glitches near the end. I don't think it's artistic design to keep the old model in there.
Well, that specifically implied it COULD have still looked like it used to, they just didn't go for that for whatever reason. And it doesn't seem the kind of thing that actually taxes on the system heavily, it wasn't like it was fully reflective, just kind of bright white.

Some of the other stuff was also kind of hard to just notice though. I think this is what it comes down to with diminishing returns, getting good lighting in the first place is hugely impressive, and as it gets better it gets harder to appreciate the boosts. Like said maybe if I was able to play it for myself right next to the game we got it'd be a different story and stick out more, but even then I imagine it ends up feeling like a subtle difference that even if you appreciate you'll tune out before long.
 

Gbraga

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Well, This is good. But I'm guessing this is more along the lines of competent PC version rather then all the lighting and jazz being added again.
Ah thanks any way.
Yeah, trying to get confirmation of whether it's closer to the TGS build or the console retail.

Also looking into balance adjustments that may come with the PC build, very interested in that. I wonder if they'll use Steam's free patches thing to test a lot of stuff there first.
 

Haunted

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You know, there are quite a few precedents for PC version that were ports of the last-gen version while a superior current-gen version existed for consoles. It's not like it hasn't happened before.


That said, we do have From's assurance that the PC version was the lead platform here, so it shouldn't be the case.
 

Gbraga

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Anything specific?
Let's see

1080p at 60fps
Several graphics options. Textures, shadows, effects, AA, AO, blur, anisotropic filtering, water quality, depth of field and etc
There's an option that will automatically lower your graphics to mantain performance
Really fast loading times. Don't even have time to read an entire tip
These folks you're hearing from, do they plan on providing coverage for it soon?
When the embargo lift, I guess, don't know when is that though. They pretty much got early access to prepare videos, so it should be soon? I honestly don't know how those things work, just guessing.
 

Alo81

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Let's see





When the embargo lift, I guess, don't know when is that though. They pretty much got early access to prepare videos, so it should be soon? I honestly don't know how those things work, just guessing.
Honestly, biggest question is if the lighting is closer to the TGS footage or current console releases.

I'd love to hear an answer on that if possible.
 

Gbraga

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Honestly, biggest question is if the lighting is closer to the TGS footage or current console releases.

I'd love to hear an answer on that if possible.
Seems like it's closer to consoles. Not sure how much better, but not TGS level.

EDIT: Just to make that clear, it's just what I'm hearing guys, can't answer anything too specific since I can't just test it myself.
 

Gbraga

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Yep.

No PS3 buttons either. I guess that's to be expected, but I love playing with that modded in the first game. FFXIV gives you the option, and I thought that was super cool and every game should do that.
 

Gbraga

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About the darkness thing, I hear it's about this level of dark:



I assume that's about the tutorial, and I didn't play it on consoles to know how it is there.

Seems like i'll be getting my refund then :).
Please don't take my word for it, wait for the footage to come out.
 

Garcia

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Let's see

1080p at 60fps
Several graphics options. Textures, shadows, effects, AA, AO, blur, anisotropic filtering, water quality, depth of field and etc
There's an option that will automatically lower your graphics to mantain performance
Really fast loading times. Don't even have time to read an entire tip
This list is encouraging to read. That the game has all of those native options shows that they were really thinking about the PC performance from the beginning. In the end, the consoles really got the performance cut.

Are all of these confirmed by your source?

As other have said, if possible, try to gather as much info. regarding the lighting of the game. How does it look? Is it darker? etc.
 

Piano

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My hope is that, it being a hugely popular PC release, someone will find a way to mod the darkness back in.