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[Diatribe1974]

Unless you're an established vegetarian, I'd warn against going straight veganism as its a harsh, harsh transition. Go vegetarian first, then go vegan afterwards. It'll drastically improve your chances of sticking to the lifestyle changes.

 

[Jap Elberto]

I'm a vegan and I absolutely support your proposition to go the full hog. Don't listen to folk on here trying to tell you that you have to gradually work your way into it. No. NO. That will not give your body enough leeway to properly adapt. It's like having to go into a cold swimming pool, you don't dip your toes, dip your leg etc, you jump right in and that's when you realize it wasn't so cold after all. Start with eating marsh mallows for lunch for the first week. That's what I did.

 

[ponpo]

Good for you OP try it. I recently stopped after being vegan for like 4 years and vegetarian for like 10 because vegan + Japan = lol but if it's doable I think you should. Everyone should try it for a short while, at least. Maybe then people would stop their wild claims of 'omg I'd die if I couldn't eat cheese for a day!!!!'

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I went vegan for a short period of time a few years ago. It was basically cold turkey and I lasted about three weeks. There are tremendous health benefits, yes, I noticed a pretty big difference in that short period of time. But I think there are things you can't get quite as efficiently as you can from animal protein. Not necessarily that you can't substitute it out altogether, but also some of those substitutes are just no good for you (I'm thinking of the Boca line and similar things). The key is not trying to find 1 for 1 substitutes of things you would normally eat, but instead find new food staples that you like just as much. So, it's not necessarily going vegan cold turkey as much as it is easing your way in by trying new foods that fill some of the cravings you'll have. Not exactly a vegan example, but when I cut out bread, I started using rice cakes for nut butters and such instead. They're not all that alike, but they fill the same hole.

However, dairy is absolute crap. Removing that alone is enough to see most of the benefits associated with veganism. And there are some decent substitutes for this like coconut ice cream.

 

[Transhuman]

I heard on the radio once that for things like going Vegan and dieting, you shouldn't say I can't eat that, you should say "I WON'T eat that", which is a lot more empowering.

Saying "I won't eat that" makes the speaker sound like an ungrateful impetulent child though. In other words I wouldn't be surprised if I heard a vegan say that at all.

 

[kame-sennin]

Saying "I won't eat that" makes the speaker sound like an ungrateful impetulent child though. In other words I wouldn't be surprised if I heard a vegan say that at all.

Ya know, in the nine years I've been vegan, I've never gotten into an argument with someone about the ethics of meat eating outside of the internet. In fact, I've never brought up the fact that I'm a vegan, but people looooove to bring it up to me and ask me all sorts of questions. My vegetarian/vegan friends have similar experiences.

 

[ZealousD]

Saying "I won't eat that" makes the speaker sound like an ungrateful impetulent child though

Uh, no it doesn't. Only if you invent context like kicking and screaming does it sound like that.

Start with eating marsh mallows for lunch for the first week. That's what I did.

"Going vegan isn't so bad. Just start by eating pure sugar."

 

[GabDX]

Saying "I won't eat that" makes the speaker sound like an ungrateful impetulent child though. In other words I wouldn't be surprised if I heard a vegan say that at all.

The trick is to accept the food that people give you, even if you're vegan. It won't kill you and you won't look ungrateful. It's pretty simple.

 

[Get'sMad]

I'm a vegan and I absolutely support your proposition to go the full hog. Don't listen to folk on here trying to tell you that you have to gradually work your way into it. No. NO. That will not give your body enough leeway to properly adapt. It's like having to go into a cold swimming pool, you don't dip your toes, dip your leg etc, you jump right in and that's when you realize it wasn't so cold after all. Start with eating marsh mallows for lunch for the first week. That's what I did.

uhhhh...whatever works I guess?

anyways I don't think it's bad to suggest a gradual reduction of dairy and meat for his goals.

it can be like quitting smoking...I was able to go cold turkey and had great success and haven't smoked in years but that doesn't work for everyone...some people have better success by weaning their way off.

 

[ElTorro]

Starting is easy. Just eat normal things that just happen to be vegan. Pasta, for example, or stir fried vegetables. Add protein sources like tofu, seitan, beans, etc., which work well in sauces.

 

[Mermandala]

Ya know, in the nine years I've been vegan, I've never gotten into an argument with someone about the ethics of meat eating outside of the internet. In fact, I've never brought up the fact that I'm a vegan, but people looooove to bring it up to me and ask me all sorts of questions. My vegetarian/vegan friends have similar experiences.

This. And I just avoid the conversation on the internet altogether (mostly). 17 years for me youngsters, not half my life but getting there.

 

[Kimosabae]

Correlation does not equate to causation.

You will probably see some health benefits if you switch to a vegan diet. But not because you're switching to veganism in particular, but because you're likely being at least a bit more of a health conscious individual than you were before.

Those studies correlating veganism and vegetarianism to health benefits aren't demonstrating anything but a correlation. The more reasonable conclusion to make, is that a person consciously applying vegan/vegetarian principles to their diet, is a more health conscious individual generally, and is conscious of concepts such as energy balance and the importance of physical fitness. The average person that eats the typical American diet full of animal products does not consider these things.

 

[jts]

A marshmallow diet? That's what being vegan is all about?!

Oh man I wanted to become a vegan since I was a kid and I didn't even knew it.

 

[weemadarthur]

A marshmallow diet? That's what being vegan is all about?!

Oh man I wanted to become a vegan since I was a kid and I didn't even knew it.

I thought marshmallows were made with gelatin...not vegan....

 

[Flink]

uhhhh...whatever works I guess?

anyways I don't think it's bad to suggest a gradual reduction of dairy and meat for his goals.

it can be like quitting smoking...I was able to go cold turkey and had great success and haven't smoked in years but that doesn't work for everyone...some people have better success by weaning their way off.

Marshmallows aren't vegan. Not even vegetarian.

Well, 99.999% of them at least.

*edit: Beaten like a piece of meat

 

[Transhuman]

Uh, no it doesn't. Only if you invent context like kicking and screaming does it sound like that.

I don't think there's an inflection of the word "won't" that doesn't scream rudeness. You're saying "this food isn't up to my standards", which is a shitty way to repay someone's generosity.

 

[weemadarthur]

To date, in this thread, I see:

About 15 posts that are supportive and/or offer information
About 25 posts that advise against the decision, or actively insult veggies, or other negative comments strongly against any veganism in the world

The rest are not strongly pro or con, or are meta comment, or whatever. I was counting on my fingers but only have two hands. Sorry if I missed something.

What is wrong with you meat eaters in vegetarian threads? Why do you so overwhelmingly show up and be, frankly, rude? Why is there this majority of down voters on a subject that can't affect you personally? And then the thought is brought up repeatedly, with no evidence, that veggies preach at people. Look at yourself, geez.

 

[Transhuman]

To date, in this thread, I see:

About 15 posts that are supportive and/or offer information
About 25 posts that advise against the decision, or actively insult veggies, or other negative comments strongly against any veganism in the world

The rest are not strongly pro or con, or are meta comment, or whatever. I was counting on my fingers but only have two hands. Sorry if I missed something.

What is wrong with you meat eaters in vegetarian threads? Why do you so overwhelmingly show up and be, frankly, rude? Why is there this majority of down voters on a subject that can't affect you personally? And then the thought is brought up repeatedly, with no evidence, that veggies preach at people. Look at yourself, geez.

For the same reason people do it when people talk about the moonlanding and 911 conspiracies. If you're within earshot of ignorance, ignorance is affecting personally. That and the health risks associated with fad diets.

"Meat eaters"? The politically correct term is omnivores, geez.

 

[Get'sMad]

To date, in this thread, I see:

About 15 posts that are supportive and/or offer information
About 25 posts that advise against the decision, or actively insult veggies, or other negative comments strongly against any veganism in the world

The rest are not strongly pro or con, or are meta comment, or whatever. I was counting on my fingers but only have two hands. Sorry if I missed something.

What is wrong with you meat eaters in vegetarian threads? Why do you so overwhelmingly show up and be, frankly, rude? Why is there this majority of down voters on a subject that can't affect you personally? And then the thought is brought up repeatedly, with no evidence, that veggies preach at people. Look at yourself, geez.

as a person who loves to bike it always reminds of car v cyclist stuff...jackasses on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[GobFather]

For the same reason people do it when people talk about the moonlanding and 911 conspiracies. If you're within earshot of ignorance, ignorance is affecting personally. That and the health risks associated with fad diets.

"Meat eaters"? The politically correct term is omnivores, geez.

Are you serious? ....

 

[jts]

I thought marshmallows were made with gelatin...not vegan....

It was too good to be true.

 

[Krauser Kat]

This was the meal list i cooked in july. I missed a week.
i dont buy any "fake" food except for sausages/chorizo for a quick lunch protein if i dont have leftovers

eft overs
chilli mac and cheese
pizza
curry
stir fry tempeh
pancakes
Falafel and Veggies
Tempeh Veggie Stir fry
PIzza and Can Soup
Chili
Beet Burgers
Cheezy Rice and broccoli
Left Overs
Scrambled ChickPeas
Curry
Orange Sop
Ramen Brownrice Noodles
Glam Chowder
Date Night
Omletes
pancakes

 

[Five]

I spent years five to ten as a pescetarian. My mom had cancer and putting our family on a vegetable and fish diet was one of the solutions attempted.

Having recovered from that drought, I can safely say I'm never going back. Alongside the array of organic foods was an assortment of over-processed, awful tasting substitutes like almond milk, tofu burgers, soy cheese, and more.

I don't know enough to say whether one diet is healthier than the other, but I don't think it matters. I'd pick fifty years of burgers over a hundred years of tofu any day.

 

[EmiPrime]

For the same reason people do it when people talk about the moonlanding and 911 conspiracies. If you're within earshot of ignorance, ignorance is affecting personally. That and the health risks associated with fad diets.

"Meat eaters"? The politically correct term is omnivores, geez.

Wow you are completely insufferable.

OP: Try going vegan in stages if you can't change overnight. Start off with breakfast, figure out which soy/almond milk you like best and what not. A week later move on to lunch, figure out the vegan options close to work/school or make your lunch the night before then a week after that try dinner.

 

[Mlatador]

I've heard veganism is good for you

Spoiler

when you still eat meat 2 times a weak

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well it didn't take very long for the FUD to start:

"In general, vegetarians typically enjoy a lower risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD), obesity, type 2 diabetes, and some cancers (3). A vegan diet appears to be useful for increasing the intake of protective nutrients and phytochemicals and for minimizing the intake of dietary factors implicated in several chronic diseases"

http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/89/5/1627S.full

What does "typically enjoy" mean? And compared to what? Is this just another epidemiological study? I see it's citation for that claim links to this: http://www.andjrnl.org/article/S0002-8223(03)00294-3/abstract, but I don't see anything in the abstract about their methodology and don't really have time to read the whole thing.

One of the biggest problems with nutritional science is that there are so few controlled long-term studies due to the impractically of performing them. That's why you see so many people drawing conclusions from epidemiological stuff. It's really to the point where you can find just about any study to support your chosen narrative and claim everything else is dumb because why not. You can then find any random guru or blogger on that net that "debunked" whatever study you don't like and link that as evidence. I've seen this happen enough in just about every thread I've seen about nutrition. It's kind of tiring.

Since there is so little quality science going on, one has to turn to knowledge of human biology and extrapolate from there. At least then we know what mechanisms are at play and can make certain judgment calls. However, you really need to take a very individualistic approach to diets, since we are all so very different. It becomes very difficult to make sweeping general recommendations, which seems to be what everyone wants to do. One thing I think we can say that we do know is that constantly consuming meals full of carbohydrates probably isn't a good idea unless you are physically very active.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

So one of the most respected Health Institutions in the world if not the most is nonsense?

Give me examples that back your claim. Harvard Health publications are based on years and years of studies, so show me a good paper that contradicts their claims.

More information on whole grains from Harvard:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/whole-grains/

Eating grains of any kind of is going to raise your risk of heart disease and diabetes simply due to the effects on blood sugar and inflammation. There won't be a huge difference between processed and non-processed.

They compare the health effects of whole vs processed, but for whatever reason don't seem to care about "no grains," as if such a thing is incomprehensible.

Pop culture books on science are almost always flawed in the same way: they cherry pick data, remove anything that disagrees with their original premise, and plays narrative tricks throughout. The Big Fat is no different. Peer reviewed science exists for a reason.


Here is a well researched and documented refutation of the book:

https://thescienceofnutrition.wordp...he-big-fat-surprise-a-critical-review-part-1/


Also, the study you cite has been Criticized for having numerous flaws:

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutriti...-heart-disease-study-is-seriously-misleading/

You know you're about to read a good ol' critique blog when the snarky author starts it out with character attacks.

 

[CornBurrito]

Eating grains of any kind of is going to raise your risk of heart disease and diabetes simply due to the effects on blood sugar and inflammation. There won't be a huge difference between processed and non-processed.

They compare the health effects of whole vs processed, but for whatever reason don't seem to care about "no grains," as if such a thing is incomprehensible.



You know you're about to read a good ol' critique blog when the snarky author starts it out with character attacks.

Grains are extremely cheap and filling. And easily accessible. I don't think a completely grain free diet is feasible for everyone.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Grains are extremely cheap and filling. And easily accessible. I don't think a completely grain free diet is feasible for everyone.

Well he's talking about the health benefits not the cost. But yeah, even high fiber grains that are good for digestion contain sugar, by nature of them being carbs meaning they will have some effect on your chance of getting diabetes.

If there's any downside to eating meat it's that red meat is somewhat high in bad cholesterol, but white meat is incredibly healthy

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Grains are extremely cheap and filling. And easily accessible. I don't think a completely grain free diet is feasible for everyone.

Possibly not. Not even saying that they can't have a place in a person's diet, particularly if that person is highly active. They are a very easily accessible source of filling carbohydrates.

That doesn't mean they don't come with downsides, though.

 

[CornBurrito]

Well he's talking about the health benefits not the cost. But yeah, even high fiber grains that are good for digestion contain sugar, by nature of them being carbs meaning they will have some effect on your chance of getting diabetes.

If there's any downside to eating meat it's that red meat is somewhat high in bad cholesterol, but white meat is incredibly healthy

I was mostly making a guess at why the study didn't consider "no grains" an option and simply compared whole grains with non-whole grains.

 

[Red_Man]

Youve made a good start by telling everyone first

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well he's talking about the health benefits not the cost. But yeah, even high fiber grains that are good for digestion contain sugar, by nature of them being carbs meaning they will have some effect on your chance of getting diabetes.

If there's any downside to eating meat it's that red meat is somewhat high in bad cholesterol, but white meat is incredibly healthy

I don't believe there are any inherently bad types of cholesterol. Some types are more prone to sticking to artery walls, but simply having high levels of cholesterol does not mean they will stick to the walls and stay there (not get cleaned up). Inflammation seems more likely to be the cause.

 

[Zoned]

OP you should try to skip meat first. As I said earlier as well, your body won't be able to handle itself if you just skip non-veg things altogether. Take slow steps and move to your goal effectively and consciously. Else I am ready to bet that you'll be back to the old habits within a month or so.

 

[BUNTING1243]

I've been a vegetarian for years now and I enjoy it, go for it OP. You really don't miss meat after a few days. And it's probably kept me skinnier than I'd be otherwise.

 

[speculawyer]

This was the meal list i cooked in july. I missed a week.
i dont buy any "fake" food except for sausages/chorizo for a quick lunch protein if i dont have leftovers

eft overs
chilli mac and cheese
pizza
curry
stir fry tempeh
pancakes
Falafel and Veggies
Tempeh Veggie Stir fry
PIzza and Can Soup
Chili
Beet Burgers
Cheezy Rice and broccoli
Left Overs
Scrambled ChickPeas
Curry
Orange Sop
Ramen Brownrice Noodles
Glam Chowder
Date Night
Omletes
pancakes

Doesn't sound very vegan.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

I don't believe there are any inherently bad types of cholesterol. Some types are more prone to sticking to artery walls, but simply having high levels of cholesterol does not mean they will stick to the walls and stay there (not get cleaned up). Inflammation seems more likely to be the cause.

Citation needed.

Clinician's have made the jump from using just LDL to a risk profile combining a variety of factors.

 

[Krauser Kat]

Well he's talking about the health benefits not the cost. But yeah, even high fiber grains that are good for digestion contain sugar, by nature of them being carbs meaning they will have some effect on your chance of getting diabetes.

If there's any downside to eating meat it's that red meat is somewhat high in bad cholesterol, but white meat is incredibly healthy

other than you know, killing and the systematic degradation of entire groups of animals.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

other than you know, killing and the systematic degradation of entire groups of animals.

You realize I'm solely just talking about the healthiness/nutritional differences, right?

 

[Krauser Kat]

Doesn't sound very vegan.

Broccoli and cheese uses almond milk and nutritional flakes to create a cheesy crust that is much like most cheese casseroles.

Pizza, i make home made from scratch gluten free vegan pizzas. with a cashew cream that hardened when cooked. It tastes cheesy enough it just doesnt stretch.

Omelets. OMG they are so good. I use a mixture of Silken Tofu and Garbonzo bean flour plus black salt (contains sulfur) which makes a great egg texture.
Here is a pic of the same stuff used to make scrambled chorizo and hash

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Citation needed.

Clinician's have made the jump from using just LDL to a risk profile combining a variety of factors.

It doesn't mean that any of them are bad, though. Just that some are more prone to getting stuck on the arterial wall and not getting cleaned up.

The mere existence of these cholesterol does not make them get stuck there, though. The actual cause of heart disease is elsewhere. The cholesterol is sent there to repair damage.

Even still, the new guidelines still have not been adopted across the board. There are plenty of clinics that still prescribe medicine even over just high overall cholesterol numbers.

other than you know, killing and the systematic degradation of entire groups of animals.

I suppose you'd rather they not exist at all? Because that's what would happen if everyone decided to stop eating them.

 

[speculawyer]

Broccoli and cheese uses almond milk and nutritional flakes to create a cheesy crust that is much like most cheese casseroles.

Pizza, i make home made from scratch gluten free vegan pizzas. with a cashew cream that hardened when cooked. It tastes cheesy enough it just doesnt stretch.

Omelets. OMG they are so good. I use a mixture of Silken Tofu and Garbonzo bean flour plus black salt (contains sulfur) which makes a great egg texture.
Here is a pic of the same stuff used to make scrambled chorizo and hash

I must say, that picture looks delicious. Can you share a full recipe?

 

[kame-sennin]

What is wrong with you meat eaters in vegetarian threads? Why do you so overwhelmingly show up and be, frankly, rude? Why is there this majority of down voters on a subject that can't affect you personally? And then the thought is brought up repeatedly, with no evidence, that veggies preach at people. Look at yourself, geez.

I used to wonder about this a lot. I think it ultimately boils down to misplaced anger. When someone who eats meat encounters a vegetarian, the question of whether eating meat is moral or not pops into their head. Instead of debating the issue internally, they angrily refuse to think about it out of fear that they might conclude that they are behaving immorally. Seeking an outlet for that anger, they direct it at whom they think is responsible for forcing them to consider unpleasant thoughts, i.e. vegetarians. This does not mean that eating meat is immoral or that a vegetarian directly asserted as much. It's merely that the question arose in their mind that causes the psychological discomfort and anger.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Broccoli and cheese uses almond milk and nutritional flakes to create a cheesy crust that is much like most cheese casseroles.

Pizza, i make home made from scratch gluten free vegan pizzas. with a cashew cream that hardened when cooked. It tastes cheesy enough it just doesnt stretch.

Omelets. OMG they are so good. I use a mixture of Silken Tofu and Garbonzo bean flour plus black salt (contains sulfur) which makes a great egg texture.
Here is a pic of the same stuff used to make scrambled chorizo and hash

One thing I've never understood is if you're vegetarian/vegan, why even try and imitate the texture/taste of things you can't/won't eat?

What is wrong with you meat eaters in vegetarian threads? Why do you so overwhelmingly show up and be, frankly, rude? Why is there this majority of down voters on a subject that can't affect you personally? And then the thought is brought up repeatedly, with no evidence, that veggies preach at people. Look at yourself, geez.

Literally a few posts down we got

other than you know, killing and the systematic degradation of entire groups of animals.

 

[kame-sennin]

One thing I've never understood is if you're vegetarian/vegan, why even try and imitate the texture/taste of things you can't/won't eat?

I don't want to kill animals unnecessarily. That doesn't mean they don't taste good. If I can get the taste without the torture and death, that's a win-win. What's so hard to understand?

Literally a few posts down we got

In a thread where someone has decided to become a vegetarian and is asking for tips, in response to a series of posts explaining why eating meat is the much a healthier option - an answer to a question the OP never asked. At this point, I think it's fair to say the discussion between vegetarians and meat eaters has become adversarial in nature, so it's not surprising that either side is making moral claims.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

I don't want to kill animals unnecessarily. That doesn't mean they don't taste good. If I can get the taste without the torture and death, that's a win-win. What's so hard to understand?

Fair enough

 

[Deleted member 17706]

One thing I've never understood is if you're vegetarian/vegan, why even try and imitate the texture/taste of things you can't/won't eat?

I'm with you. Same with other "replacement" foods on other diets. Low-carb pizza, "paleo pancakes" and other such nonsense.

Seems like a better idea to just find good food within your own dietary guidelines instead of trying to imitate stuff.

Maybe it's just that every food in this category that I have tried has miserably failed at replicating the real thing.

 

[Ryudo]

I don't want to kill animals unnecessarily. That doesn't mean they don't taste good. If I can get the taste without the torture and death, that's a win-win. What's so hard to understand?

Thats my position. I did have a love for meat as growing up it was a staple, but i haven't eaten it for 5 or six years now. Seeing first hand where meat comes from doesnt make me feel that great about eating it. I just keep reminding myself that if there were no animals I would damn sure not be eating babies.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That's Walter Willet most likely. He's been on the healthy whole grain bandwagon for a while. So yeah, don't trust Harvard.

Yeah, I bet it is. The guy definitely has some good things to say (like his anti-soda stuff), but he's another one of those researchers making unfounded claims about causation and recommendations based solely off of epidemiological studies.

 

[deltatheta]

It seems like nutrition is the area more than anywhere else where you run into huge amounts of folk science. People stake a claim on some doctrine and won't accept any evidence to the contrary. I think it's because we view an unhealthy diet as a moral failing. You don't want to be seen as someone who can't control your diet or you want to look down on the unhealthy masses so any conflicting views are treated as heresy. It makes it real hard to find actual accurate information on nutrition.