I didn't play much of season 1. I talk about that here. I haven't been enjoying season 2 outside of playing with friends, and initially wrote that off due to just being bad or not enjoying street fighter's style of play in general. But upon reading impressions of others (streamers/pros/other forum posters) I found that a lot of people seemed to have the same problems as me and seemed to not like certain things either, some of which I mentioned in the op. The Chris G power hour described those problems better than I could.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
So, is Street Fighter V just a bad game across the board? (Gameplay talk)
- Thread starter sephi22
- Start date
muetimueti
Neo Member
I like it better than 4, but I didn't really enjoy 4 much at all. SFV certainly had the potential to be awesome but only turned out alright in the end. Seems to me they were too afraid to make characters too good and tried to cap their potential by engine limitations that ultimately make the game feel a bit bland.
I like it fine and play a set or two occasionally, but I can't really pour my heart into a game where there's not that much to do in practice mode.
I like it fine and play a set or two occasionally, but I can't really pour my heart into a game where there's not that much to do in practice mode.
Nemesis121
Member
S2 changes=Capcom reads tier list and take it seriously lol
They nerf character didn't need nerfing like Alex/Fang already bottom tier characters..and buff characters like Guile/Urien who were already good characters... basically nerf season 1 top 5 and buffed in a new top 5 while continue to shit on the bottom tier characters...
They nerf character didn't need nerfing like Alex/Fang already bottom tier characters..and buff characters like Guile/Urien who were already good characters... basically nerf season 1 top 5 and buffed in a new top 5 while continue to shit on the bottom tier characters...
Of course it's a serious question. You found GG difficult to understand?
MrMephistoX
Member
Until 2.0 for me kinda but that's just because Chun-Li's lightning legs defied 20 years of tradition and we're not mashable: I didn't even know 2.0 dropped until this thread so I'm excited to pick this up again!
Tallshortman
Member
You asked the previous person why he thought it was difficult. I gave you the answer everyone in the FGC and otherwise already know why most anime games are considered difficult for new players.
It sounds like a lame excuse to me. I mostly play 3D fighters and GG is not complicated. Everything is spelled out very plainly in the tutorial.
I'm not the person you quoted, but while I understand Xrd's systems and inputs, I find the gameplay impenetrable based on streams of high level matches I've seen online. Neutral seems to be just use YRC on fireball or on whiffed normals, and offense just seems like rushdown and setplay.
I find Blazblue relatively straightforward. Go figure.
BronsonLee
Member
*whips out list of ways to irritate oneida*
GG is hard
VF is only ok
...your silverware is mediocre?
P4A is the easiest Arc game to me IMO and SF5 is still easy as balls, but S2 suuuuucks
GG is hard
VF is only ok
...your silverware is mediocre?
P4A is the easiest Arc game to me IMO and SF5 is still easy as balls, but S2 suuuuucks
Tallshortman
Member
You seem to want to force your opinion on others. I'm not sure how you're going to tell him he's coming up with an excuse on something that is well known within the FGC itself.
Second, the issue is not the individual systems. The "hard" part is usually how many there are and how to properly use them all while in a match.
How is asking people to explain themselves forcing my opinion?
Chief Devin
Member
Its funny the casual crowd here loves the game and the better players hate its guts. I think that says it all.
No it's not a bad game overall. Season 2 just dropped. There were enough changes and tweaks that people are being forced to adapt and in some cases a lot of what they relied on in S1 is possibly out the window. You may need to re-learn some matchups and adjust your gameplan and tactis. Some matches may have gotten easier and some much more difficult. You may need to adjust how you play your character due to their changes. You may need to find a new character because your S1 character isn't clicking/working for you anymore because of nerfs or changes. These things may lead people to no longer enjoy the game from a personal level, which is fine, but that doesn't mean the game at its core is trash.
Tallshortman
Member
I just told you the reason and you said it was a lame excuse while going on to explain essentially why it was a wrong. You telling someone they shouldn't feel like something is difficult comes off as forcing your opinion.
Laura is basically a watered-down 3S Makoto. Everything Laura does in V, Makoto does better in 3S. By the way, Laura's jab shoulder is -2 on block, so block.
the pro player who hates it the most does it cause his main got nerfed even after he got eliminated 0-2 from cpt tho
so take his opinion with a huge grain of salt
You told me what "everyone in the FGC knows" which is totally ridiculous. I asked one person what they found difficult about the game.
Zombegoast
Member
Talking about on hit obviously. Even on meaty it becomes + on block.
Unpopular opinion: I sorta always felt this way since before Alex was released.
As a long time street fighter fan, I've been playing the franchise since the original SF2 and was able to enjoy every Street Fighter game all the way up to 4. I do have favorites but to me the best games will always be SF2 turbo , Alpha 2, and USF4, with exploits and all. Nothing felt "right" in SF5 since the beginning to me and as pointed many times before from the "casuals", the lack of modes DID hurt but didn't bother me because as a competitive player, I wanted to challenge myself against other people and I had more fun with online in SF4 series than I did in the other games modes that I barely played.
SF5 with its early server issues, games taking up to about 5 minutes to find to only have it be insanely laggy or have extreme rollback (which is the reason I hated HDR) was not really enjoyable. There was no reward to playing online and "decent" games with no lag were too rare and infrequent. Even playing with my friend who literally lives 2 blocks away from me, we would have constant rollback and lag on both ends and we both have high speed internet.
We had a BLAST playing locally but even we both felt the game didn't feel right gameplay-wise either. From the input delay (Which let's be honest, was MASSIVE at launch) and having casuals to pros saying "This is how the game was intended to be played" just made it all the more frustrating.
A lot of times it also boiled down to having the game not registering your moves properly as well (from my experience), even with how simplified inputs were made to make the game easier. What hurt it the most to me was how the entire game just became footsie-oriented but HEAVILY relied on crush counters, punishing anyone who tried to counter with a crush counter, which i still feel like was the worst mechanic in any SF game next to Focus attacks but even I would have preferred FADCs and Focus attacks over it. To me this felt more like Marvel than Street Fighter, and I am NOT a marvel vs series fan. Who knows if I'd like it now with all of the improvements and fixes but the launch left me with a bad impression and didn't add to Capcom's already bad track record with their practices and decisions from last gen.
Ultimately I got to gold early on (prob the first week or 2 of playing since launch) and then dropped the game entirely before any of the patches/fixes/DLCs ever got released and never looked back. I wanted to like the game but it didn't feel engaging to "fish" for CCs with a well placed normal and doing a massive combo and punishing the other player for one tiny mistake, or having to fight frametrap monsters like Mika. It just felt like SF4 with Focus attack punishes but at least the consequences weren't as dire or like Marvel 3 with X factor combos for punishing a whiff. To me this, that isn't the same street fighter that made me like earlier titles, which focused more on spacing which i felt encouraged mind games rather than mindlessly following a flowchart. Just my 2 cents
TLDL; Didn't feel like SF to me, which is why i didn't like it aside from technical issues and content.
As a long time street fighter fan, I've been playing the franchise since the original SF2 and was able to enjoy every Street Fighter game all the way up to 4. I do have favorites but to me the best games will always be SF2 turbo , Alpha 2, and USF4, with exploits and all. Nothing felt "right" in SF5 since the beginning to me and as pointed many times before from the "casuals", the lack of modes DID hurt but didn't bother me because as a competitive player, I wanted to challenge myself against other people and I had more fun with online in SF4 series than I did in the other games modes that I barely played.
SF5 with its early server issues, games taking up to about 5 minutes to find to only have it be insanely laggy or have extreme rollback (which is the reason I hated HDR) was not really enjoyable. There was no reward to playing online and "decent" games with no lag were too rare and infrequent. Even playing with my friend who literally lives 2 blocks away from me, we would have constant rollback and lag on both ends and we both have high speed internet.
We had a BLAST playing locally but even we both felt the game didn't feel right gameplay-wise either. From the input delay (Which let's be honest, was MASSIVE at launch) and having casuals to pros saying "This is how the game was intended to be played" just made it all the more frustrating.
A lot of times it also boiled down to having the game not registering your moves properly as well (from my experience), even with how simplified inputs were made to make the game easier. What hurt it the most to me was how the entire game just became footsie-oriented but HEAVILY relied on crush counters, punishing anyone who tried to counter with a crush counter, which i still feel like was the worst mechanic in any SF game next to Focus attacks but even I would have preferred FADCs and Focus attacks over it. To me this felt more like Marvel than Street Fighter, and I am NOT a marvel vs series fan. Who knows if I'd like it now with all of the improvements and fixes but the launch left me with a bad impression and didn't add to Capcom's already bad track record with their practices and decisions from last gen.
Ultimately I got to gold early on (prob the first week or 2 of playing since launch) and then dropped the game entirely before any of the patches/fixes/DLCs ever got released and never looked back. I wanted to like the game but it didn't feel engaging to "fish" for CCs with a well placed normal and doing a massive combo and punishing the other player for one tiny mistake, or having to fight frametrap monsters like Mika. It just felt like SF4 with Focus attack punishes but at least the consequences weren't as dire or like Marvel 3 with X factor combos for punishing a whiff. To me this, that isn't the same street fighter that made me like earlier titles, which focused more on spacing which i felt encouraged mind games rather than mindlessly following a flowchart. Just my 2 cents
TLDL; Didn't feel like SF to me, which is why i didn't like it aside from technical issues and content.
Tallshortman
Member
You're going to deny that anime fighting games have a reputation for being chock full of systems?
Collateral22
Member
The only thing I didn't like about the gameplay was there were no wakeup moves, and that's more of a bad habit from 4. Other than that it's still the best fighting game gameplay thats out atm.
Chief Devin
Member
Dude every pro hates it, most just won't say it. They play to try to win money but that's it. If they replaced it tomorrow they'd drop it like a bad habit.
Theslammer
Member
I played it quite a bit last summer and thought if was fantastic. Gameplay is phenomenal.
Nemesis121
Member
Marvel gonna kill this game... a lot of the pros will move to that..
The Fatal Englishman
Member
For the record, Chris G has stated on more than one occasion that he dislikes USF4 more than SF5. Everyone has their opinion and that's fine but take his with a grain of salt. People like JWong have said that they like SF5 quite a lot.
I don't think the game is bad. I certainly enjoy it far more than 4 (although 3S is still my favourite). With that said, I can't say I'm a fan of the season 2 changes. The top tier is more oppressive than ever and in a more annoying way. We've gone from a top tier including characters with strong fundamentals (excepting Chun's IAL and Mika) to a top tier consisting of characters that all hit like freight trains and just vortex people to death with endless gimmicks. The latter is far less fun to deal with and it seems like you really need to have a pocket Rog/Guile/Laura/Cammy/Urien to counterpick the other top tiers unless you want to play a 7-3 match-up.
Oh, and here's a news flash. Balance and gameplay-wise, vanilla Street Fighters have always been piles of garbage. SF5 is by far the best first iteration of a mainline SF game.
I don't think the game is bad. I certainly enjoy it far more than 4 (although 3S is still my favourite). With that said, I can't say I'm a fan of the season 2 changes. The top tier is more oppressive than ever and in a more annoying way. We've gone from a top tier including characters with strong fundamentals (excepting Chun's IAL and Mika) to a top tier consisting of characters that all hit like freight trains and just vortex people to death with endless gimmicks. The latter is far less fun to deal with and it seems like you really need to have a pocket Rog/Guile/Laura/Cammy/Urien to counterpick the other top tiers unless you want to play a 7-3 match-up.
Oh, and here's a news flash. Balance and gameplay-wise, vanilla Street Fighters have always been piles of garbage. SF5 is by far the best first iteration of a mainline SF game.
There really seems like there has been a lot of backlash from the pro players. I wonder how long Capcom has been working on S2. I guess there's time for another patch before CPT begins anew.
As a player, I've abandoned this game. Got tired of getting destroyed online with a dead character, and if I pick a new character I have no experience with I'm just gonna get destroyed even worse.
As a player, I've abandoned this game. Got tired of getting destroyed online with a dead character, and if I pick a new character I have no experience with I'm just gonna get destroyed even worse.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Sometimes I wonder though, just what do "pro players" actually want?
For the entire run of SFIV and its iterations I read the same thing. They all hate it, it's not proper Street Fighter, and they just play it for the money.
But then I see a lot of pro players say 3rd Strike is great in some ways but mostly broken due to terrible balance and some don't like parries in principle.
So what is proper Street Fighter? Is it literally just Super Turbo? Maybe Alpha 2?
Is Battle By the Bay the Elysium against which the fetid material realm shall forever be measured and found wanting?
For the entire run of SFIV and its iterations I read the same thing. They all hate it, it's not proper Street Fighter, and they just play it for the money.
But then I see a lot of pro players say 3rd Strike is great in some ways but mostly broken due to terrible balance and some don't like parries in principle.
So what is proper Street Fighter? Is it literally just Super Turbo? Maybe Alpha 2?
Is Battle By the Bay the Elysium against which the fetid material realm shall forever be measured and found wanting?
Holyoneturtle
Member
As someone who plays a lot of street fighter, this is the first time that I feel like I'm having a lot of fun with the game since street fighter 2 or alpha. I still don't like 3rd strike.
Gai Murakumo
Member
I like it. Pros are always picky when it comes to fighting mechanics. It is not as polished as SF IV was but I think it is still good.
Can someone tell me how the netcode can be so bad? I played Super Turbo years ago on GGPO and until 80 ping the experience was perfect. BlazBlue, when the connection was good was amazing (my issues are with the game, not the tech).
Yes reportedly SFV has again netcode full of frequent rollbacks and heavy unputlag. On PS3, that made SFIV unplayable for me.
Yes reportedly SFV has again netcode full of frequent rollbacks and heavy unputlag. On PS3, that made SFIV unplayable for me.
On meaty it's plus because that's how meaties work. Change up your recovery if you keep seeing the same
setup.
The Fatal Englishman
Member
So here's the thing. We go through the same process every time a new Street Fighter comes out. Everyone claims it's garbage and ruining the series. In the case of SF3, the initial entries were lambasted constantly when they came out and even 3S itself was widely hated for a long time - and yet today, everyone looks back on it fondly.
The amount of historical revisionism going on is mind boggling.
Someone explain to me why were Alex and Fang nerfed because I just don't understand at all.
The Fatal Englishman
Member
Just seems like poor testing. They attempted to buff them but went about it the wrong way.
Vega is a good example of their bizarre patching strategy. They clearly tried to buff his footsie potential with the claw changes but, in doing so, inadvertently removed all of his frame traps and turned him into a poor-man's mix-up character. The patch notes claimed that they improved his damage potential (which they did, by increasing the damage for several of his moves) but then they went ahead and removed half of his methods of actually confirming into specials and made it so he can't cancel into anything unless he's at point blank range.
Thank you!
Guilty Gear was the better package last year by a considerable margin. Arguments can be made by some for character design and gameplay style, but I love all of it in both games with the exception of Fang. He can go die in a fire. But playing this after SFV made it feel like an early access title.
You forgot the load times though. In Street fighter, they are abysmal. I have found myself avoiding booting up the game because of them. A fighting game should be instant gratification.
LincolnTunnel
Member
I definitely think the game play is good, even if there are a lot of other problems. It's probably my second favorite SF after A3. I just really like how the game feels. I enjoy that it's less combo heavy, and that execution is easier. I like how attacks feel more deliberate, like there's more heft to them, which I think is a result of both the animations and the higher damage output. I like that the pace of the game play is slower than a lot of games, but because of the high damage output actual matches are relatively quick. I like that the game is read heavy rather than reaction heavy, though that's entirely a personal preference and I don't think it really makes the game 'good' or 'bad'. I enjoy the fact that there is a decent amount of variety in the roster, and while a few are clearly top tier, a large number of characters are at least viable, especially at non-professional levels of play.
As far as Season 2 is concerned, I still love the game, though there's a couple changes I'm mixed on. I think the grey life nerf was a bit extreme, though I don't actually mind it too much. I think the meterless reversal change is being blown HUGELY out of proportion by some people, especially considering it only affected 4 out of the 23 characters currently in the game. I think the nerfs to Nash, FANG, and Alex were either unnecessary or at least a bit too heavy handed. I'm also of mixed feelings about the rest of Season 2 being brand new, but I think that's just because I'm a big fan of a lot of classic characters that I want in the game. I am actually excited to see who or what they add.
None of this means that other people aren't allowed to dislike it though. I think there's a big difference between a game being objectively bad and disliking how it plays. I can easily see how somebody could dislike a ton of gameplay related stuff, especially if they prefer more reactionary or more defensive gameplay,but I don't think that has anything to do with the actaul objective quality of the game mechanics. I can't stand GGXrd for a ton of reasons, but I would never consider it a bad game. It's just not the type of game I'm into. It's ok for people, even professional players, to feel the same way.
As far as Season 2 is concerned, I still love the game, though there's a couple changes I'm mixed on. I think the grey life nerf was a bit extreme, though I don't actually mind it too much. I think the meterless reversal change is being blown HUGELY out of proportion by some people, especially considering it only affected 4 out of the 23 characters currently in the game. I think the nerfs to Nash, FANG, and Alex were either unnecessary or at least a bit too heavy handed. I'm also of mixed feelings about the rest of Season 2 being brand new, but I think that's just because I'm a big fan of a lot of classic characters that I want in the game. I am actually excited to see who or what they add.
None of this means that other people aren't allowed to dislike it though. I think there's a big difference between a game being objectively bad and disliking how it plays. I can easily see how somebody could dislike a ton of gameplay related stuff, especially if they prefer more reactionary or more defensive gameplay,but I don't think that has anything to do with the actaul objective quality of the game mechanics. I can't stand GGXrd for a ton of reasons, but I would never consider it a bad game. It's just not the type of game I'm into. It's ok for people, even professional players, to feel the same way.
My thoughts exactly. Down that slippery slope we go.
Zombegoast
Member
And that's the problem with S2. Without meterless reversals, these characters are just free of pressing buttons without the fear of loosing momentum. Flash Kick even lost it's throw invincibility.
- No 1/2 frame links - This is a huge positive for me, since I was never able to do these with any sort of consistency. Plinking always seemed like something that was way easier to do on a fight stick, and pretty difficult on the 360 gamepad. I always hated feeling like I couldn't play a character because 2 or 3 of their most common combos had really tight links. Even when I started to get a little better at plinking, it was only doable in training mode, since the online lagged so much.
- The netcode is amazing - Obviously not ever match is great, but even the most lag free match of SF4 doesn't come close to the average SF5 match. In SF4 there were tons of combos I could do in training mode, but the second I tried online, it seemed impossible. In SF5 it I can practice a combo for a couple minutes in training mode, then immediately pull that combo off in a match. Lag or rollback is a complete non-issue in 5, which lets me actually focus on the game.
- No advanced crap like option selects, plinking, crouch teching - I really hate this stuff. Plinking was stupid, I still don't really understand crouch teching, and every time I read up on option selects, it made me want to stop playing the game.
- No more random ultras - This probably isn't something that bothered the good players, but down in my shit tier it was extremely annoying to have to deal with an invincible wakeup or reversal that does 400 damage every single round when you are winning. The VTrigger system is way better. It still opens the door for comebacks, but you actually need to work for it.
- Less charge characters, and no characters with mash P/K specials - I actually learned to enjoy playing charge characters in 5, but I still prefer characters with command normals. Also, I could never consistently combo into any of the P/K mashing specials like Blankas electricy. That's another thing that seemed designed for fightsticks. It really sucked not being able to play half the characters in 4 since I didn't want to play a character with either of these.
I probably forgot some stuff, but that is most of why I like the game. Just in general, it feels like they removed most of the stuff that got in the way of me actually learning how to play fighting games. For the first time I feel like I am getting better at fighting games in general. I started teching throws, confirming counter hit combos, buffering normals in neutral, learned about frame traps, etc. It's also the first game where felt like I was learning how to play against other characters, rather than just getting better at my character. All of that I credit to the game being simpler in general and the lack of lag online.
Also, I think the lineup is great. Even if certain characters don't fit my style, they're still fun to fight against. I even think the season pass style rollout of new characters is awesome. Having one character every month makes it more manageable to learn to play/play against the new characters rather than dumping 8 new characters at once.
Professional gamers tend to whine a lot. It's not just limited to SF5.
I find this a strange comment because it seems to amount to "I like that there's less variety in styles of play for other people". I really enjoyed doing HHS combos with Honda and legs loops with Chun. I think it's more interesting having a huge variety on how characters are controlled even if not everyone can play them as a result. If your goal is to learn the game, then you're probably sticking to 2 or 3 characters anyway.
I would have never expected it but I find that SFV is the least fun I've ever had playing a fighting game. It's extremely boring to watch as well.
The fighting games in my regular rotation are the new KOF, GG, Darkstalkers on vita and some occasional SF3/4.
The fighting game I play the most now is UMVC3. I get so excited playing this game and it's just pure fun. I love it despite some of it's obvious flaws. It's just plain fun.
The fighting games in my regular rotation are the new KOF, GG, Darkstalkers on vita and some occasional SF3/4.
The fighting game I play the most now is UMVC3. I get so excited playing this game and it's just pure fun. I love it despite some of it's obvious flaws. It's just plain fun.
I guess I just fundamentally disagree with this. I enjoy learning characters by actually playing them. I don't want to stick to the same character forever. I'm not trying to be a professional player or something.
It's not that I want less variety, it was that I literally could not execute combos that included those types of specials. If they came up with some other type of input that was doable on a game pad, I would be perfectly fine with it. Blanka and Honda looked really fun in SF4, but I never picked them up despite playing that game for hundreds of hours. I could do Honda's cr.LP xx HP Hundred Hand Slap maybe 1/100 times on a 360 pad even after practicing a ton. This kinda sucks since it's one of his most commonly used combos.
These types of moves just seem like a carryover from the arcades where it's much easier to piano your fingers across the punch or kick buttons to do those combos. Even just adding qcf+p as an alternate input for the move would solve the problem for me.
Fright Zone
Member
SFV is a fantastic game. I've had hundreds of hours of fun with it.
I've played every single iteration of SF over the years and I'm tempted to say that this is the best playing, it's certainly one of the most balanced.
Don't believe the anti-hype.
I've played every single iteration of SF over the years and I'm tempted to say that this is the best playing, it's certainly one of the most balanced.
Don't believe the anti-hype.
Oh I've tried plenty of other fighters. I just vastly prefer Capcom ones.