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So, is Street Fighter V just a bad game across the board? (Gameplay talk)
- Thread starter sephi22
- Start date
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Sounds like you're defensive about the game. More defensive than you should be. Something wrong?
For the multiple V-Skills . Why are you so dead set on having only one? Some character's V-Skills suck a lot worse than others. I would gladly give up Zangief's shitty ass V-Skill of slowly lumbering forward at the pace of Iron Tager to have a V-Skill of his green hand back.
SF2 had no Super until the very end of the series. And even then that was more of a copy from SNKs games between that rivalry consistently going back and forth and borrowing ideas. And the stating that one Super or Ultra was superior? That depends on a persons playstyle. Remember how worthless everyone thought that Ryu's Denjin Hadouken was in 3? Choosing a Super based on a particular playstyle is helpful depending on a persons play style.
Are you insinuating that games without ex or v-triggers are objectively worse? In Street Fighter 3's case there's more universal mechanics that give character's a better fighting chance and even though it has more moves than other street fighters and the ability to select critical arts gives it more freedom to choose a playstyle within a character rather than what Capcom specifically states HOW a character should be changed "Nash Nerf" But do moves make a fighting game? No, and Super Turbo 2 is still objectively a better game than 5 despite the lack of moves as there's a more defensive offense pull than SFV which seems aimed more towards offense that can't be punished properly since the defensive play has been cut off significantly, or is that simply due to the frame differences on reactions being 4.3 to 6.5-8 depending on stage on 5?
You've made it to gold? Like that's an accomplishment? I've seen people at Super Gold and Ultra gold play garbage. Is this like the battle points where Sir loin will strike you dead if you go under 2000? Or am I thinking of PPs? I see it more of a measure of how much time you played rather than a true measurement of skill. Sire Capcom hath bestoweth me with thy holy gold! Blessed be thee children and fighteth with all their bravery for now I am the gold! But seriously. You want actual experience with characters that goes beyond more superficial understanding and you have to play those characters to gain a more fundamental understanding of how a character works rather than just stick to your fight and make them fight your fight. You have to understand what their fight is and how their fight works and where they pressure you and how to pressure it and learn how long to wait and that comes a hell of a lot easier if you play that character for some period of time rather than figuring out what the hell they are doing in the moment. To say that you don't have to have all the characters is bullshit otherwise unless you enjoy having only a moderate knowledge of how a character works.
And the grinding it out on a weekend? Or 700k of fight money. What if someone wants a story costume? Or a stage? That shit costs fairly close to a character. Or perhaps some colors? Capcom makes a hell of a lot of other shit in there to make sure there's never quite enough to purchase a character. I got six of the characters through fight money, because I'm cheap as fuck. That and I endured the enema inducing bullshit of easy/normal survival, the trials, the story, and at least 10k from winning matches online at their generous fifty bison dollars of fight money per win.
Popular? You mean that 1.4 million they sold for the first month and then the 100k they sold for the entire year? Yeah, that shit is lit up. It's sold far less than the previous installment and Capcom killed their own hype by sending it as is.
I also buy most fighting games. Is SF5 the best graphically? No. I'd go with Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat X to hold that honor. Hell, even Dead or Alive Last Round looks better. I've bought some clear acquired taste games like Koihime Enbu on PS4, or that Shining blade Fighting game or Denbenny Climax Elation from Sega. But at least they weren't hyped to hell like SFV. That and perhaps some of us expected more from Capcom? Who knows. But Aksys, NetherRealm, Whoever makes Killer Instinct now, and SNK have delivered far better packages for their games right now than Capcom delivered at launch. Hell if the game was 30 bucks at launch, I'm sure they wouldn't have this much rage and fury. But the anger and general apathy along with how people feel about the game is justified.
Feeling better now champ?
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Dunno. Do I get some of those anime vidja games that I hear are all the rage in glorious nippon?
You're responding to every other comment with 10,000 word essays, quickly forming a War and Peace-sized tome about how SFV is a shit game and I'm defensive? Thou doth protest too much.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
I claim malarky and Trump lies on this post. Last post I did was 805 words. Post before that was 17 words. And the post before that was a picture of Friendly uncle Xanadu and 54 words. That is not war and peace. This is a more cold look at Street Fighter V without those blinders on. Granted Street Fighter IV also had it's faults, but at launch it felt a FUCK lot more exciting and had a lot more favorable momentum than Street Fighter V ever mustered. Barring all those Sagat players who claimed to say they played the character and not tiers, then dump his ass the moment Super came out and he got hit by the capcom nerf hammer.
Fine, just like you don't understand the difference between objectivity and subjectivity you don't recognize exaggeration for effect. You got me.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
Douche McBaggins The 3rd
Junior Member
Literal kind of killed the feel. But for the sake of objectivity, do you really believe that Street Fighter V is alright as it is right now? Do you feel it will continue to draw more people in? Do you not feel like the game could be a hell of a lot better than what we got? Sure the opinions are subjective, and there ranges the gamut of people who will defend it saying it's great, and others that will say it's shit. I don't say that the game is outright shit, but I do believe that there is a lot more work that needs to be done, and that if done properly it can be a hell of a lot better than the sum of its current parts.
lol someone play this dude
I mean, I have a super fresh Ibuki that I've been meaning to switch to due to my inability to deal with Mika's neutral game changes. I'm hovering just above 3000 pp.
My issue is I don't care as much these days. When people were sayin KFC was better than Popeyes, well, thems was fightin words. These days? I'm accepting that people just have bad taste. I'm becoming old.
Popeyes is still the GOAT and my GF prefers KFC but I'm gonna fix that because she's ducking great but like.... SERIOUSLY LADY ARE YOU SERIOUS OMGGGGG
Whatever. I'll bop this dude if nobody else wants to.
Whatever. I'll bop this dude if nobody else wants to.
Of all the reasons to shit on SFV the game balance isn't one of them. I'm not sure there's a current gen fighting game that does it better unless you count the PS4 port of USF4.
I think that people got bored with complaining about Street Fighter V in the obvious ways, real problems that many continue to exist in the game as is, that they needed to find new ways to beat a dead horse. I guess threads complaining about the servers/matchmaking/lack of arcade mode/DLC prices/Survival/etc. weren't getting enough posts since they've been done to death so attacking the gameplay, which is roundly considered at least very good, would breathe new life into this endless shitshow.
SFV's gameplay isn't bad and there's worse fighting games that came out this gen but, hey, this is subjective. But complaints about a fighting game's gameplay being shit doesn't hold that much water for me. When SF4 came out all people said was that it was garbage/too casual and that 3 was better. When MvC3 came out it was garbage and MvC2 was better. Guilty Gear Xrd was called garbage when it was first released because it wasn't enough like GGXX. People complain about the fighting games they play the entire time they played them. I've seen SF4 trashed so much that it's a little stunning that it's viewed with rose-tinted glasses now that no one plays it.
All these games I've listed have huge problems that people don't talk about because it's not the popular game in the spotlight. Imagine what kind of shit KOF XIV would get for Ramon's infinite or launching with atrocious netcode or the PS2-quality models if it was SFV popular (well, it does get a ton of shit for its graphics anyway). Or how many threads of outrage would we get every time ASW sells a balance update with a few new characters as a full-priced game.
I understand why SFV received such a huge backlash for its terrible launch, I really do. I don't understand why there's one thread a week on GAF, at least, still complaining about the game and trying to find new angles to take it down a peg. And if the defense is "Capcom needs harsh criticism or they won't change" then complaining about things that aren't actually problems, like the majority of things mentioned in this thread, will only distract Capcom from working on the actual issues the game has and make changes that potentially make the game worse.
The OP reads like they stumbled onto a pro complaining about the gameplay so they found an opportunity to tear down the one area of SFV that people generally agree is good.
I feel like the worst part about SFV is a lack of options. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of creative playstyles. In SFIV you could tell when certain players were playing a character. You could tell that was Daigos RYU or SMUGs Dudley. In SFV, we seem to all have the same gameplan (does anyone really play Karin that differently?)... Although newer characters like Urien are admittedly allowing more freedom in this regard.
DieAntwoord
Banned
Then how do you want him played exactly? Just because many of us developed a unique play style we should be punished for it? That just seems odd. Plus his style is what helped me improve my game so much
It hasn't even outsold Street Fighter X Tekken and I'm not sure it ever will.....
Yep, you could tell the difference between Tokido and Momochi's Akumas in SFIV Vanilla....
OmnipotentO
Member
I always felt like it needed just 1 more layer of complexity. Hell if I know what it is though. Selectable supers? I like the selectable vskill idea. that could be interesting.
I still like the game as is though. then again I can watch sf2 games and be thoroughly entertained even though it's among the "simplest" of fighters.
I still like the game as is though. then again I can watch sf2 games and be thoroughly entertained even though it's among the "simplest" of fighters.
Rickenslacker
Banned
If you're east coast I can play you sometime today if you'd like. Haven't played in a little bit as my current stick is having some bad input registration with the up inputs but I've got a bit of room I can squeeze some matches in when I get home today if around noon EST works for you. CFN: Apples
I feel Justin plays a distinctly different kind of Karin to say, Wrathmatics or Mago.
Lol this post doesn't even make any sense.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
you sound like a silver bastion player lol.
Sword Of Doom
Member
So they're going to nerf a character every time someone exceptional uses them?
UcchedavÄda
Member
If you are in Europe (or nearby) then I'd gladly play some sets with you.
Some more practice against Urien certainly wouldn't be amiss in my case.
But if that is not practical, then you just tell us your CFN name, jump online for a few matches to demonstrate how cheap your character is, and then we can easily watch those matches in-game using the replay feature.
Imperfected
Member
Probably, yes. That's part of being e-sports now, baby.
Glitter and Gold
Banned
That's actually a big part of Infiltration's argument that people in here are dismissing as "being salty because he loses now"
He feels that the game doesn't reward players for investing in good characters. Infiltration's reward for taking Nash in a direction they never intended is Nash getting absolutely gutted in S2
The biggest problem with S2 is that players at all levels seem to feel their practice was wasted with some characters, which you can even see among certain responses in this thread. While at the same time others seem to have hit the character lottery contributing to the general sentiment that S2 was just change for the sake of it rather than an actual attempt at game balance.
I think the vast majority might do it better lol
Xrd is a good example. Which deliberately preserved character balance of the original version Sign going into Revelator to avoid exactly what Infiltration describes is happening in SFV S2. They didn't want their players to feel like they had wasted their practice in the transition to Rev, or in the case of console/western players, feel like they were wasting their time practicing on an old version.
This character balance stayed until Evo sort of evening the playing field. Immediately after Xrd Evo grand finals ArcSys released an actual balance patch with character changes and......it was received favorably by just about everyone. lol
Most of the changes made sense and worked as intended. Characters at the top toned down but none were gutted to the point that it felt they were punishing them for doing well in tournaments. This balance patch has persisted until this day where we got the announcement of how Rev 2 is going down. I look on my twitter feed at people discussing the patch and what changes they would like for their characters and see a lot of people struggling to come up with anything.
And while I don't follow these games closely, I've heard people praise KI for its update timing and quality as well. People also feel MKX is in a good spot, in spite of the road it had to take to get there lol
So with this context I find it hard to just write off the reaction to SFV as being something typical of any new fighting game revision. At most you can say it's typical of Capcom games I feel.
This just isn't true though. People don't talk about the Ramon infinite because SNK pretty quickly addressed it telling players not to waste time practicing it because it had already been fixed.
In the case of ArcSys revisions....people DO complain about it, in every ArcSys thread. lol. Even the thread announcing the revision where they're actually selling the new version as a paid balance update like SFIV
I think the difference between them and Capcom is we can tell that Arc and SNK are acting based on player feedback. They communicate with their players and it leads to real results in their games.
Haunted
Member
I liked the story mode even though it's not as good as Mortal Kombat's. Game looks nice and is fun to play for a couple rounds with friends. Don't like that you have to pay for characters and stages, but that's how the market goes these days.
Shame the competitive scene doesn't seem to like it, same thing happened to SFxT which I also enjoyed a great deal, it died comparatively quickly without having an enthusiastic community behind it.
Shame the competitive scene doesn't seem to like it, same thing happened to SFxT which I also enjoyed a great deal, it died comparatively quickly without having an enthusiastic community behind it.
That would mean many fighting game players are some hardcore masochist bastards.
It's much more enjoyable than SFIV at least for me.
Please. KoF XIV got a ton of shit for the buggy netcode at launch and the graphics. As for Ramon infinite, SNK communicated few days after it was found and said to not waste time on it, they already fixed it.
It's much more enjoyable than SFIV at least for me.
Please. KoF XIV got a ton of shit for the buggy netcode at launch and the graphics. As for Ramon infinite, SNK communicated few days after it was found and said to not waste time on it, they already fixed it.
Ace Harding
Member
The trashing of the game is ridiculous IMO. I'm having a ton of fun with it and it's better than SFIV which was a fantastic game. Just casually watching streams I see a ton of good players using a pretty wide variety of players so it can't be that unbalanced. S2 was what, 3-4 weeks ago? Still needs time to breathe. Which is what all these people getting so worked about about the game need to do. Relaaaaaax. Have fun with a video game.
Online is still crap tho. I get more shit connections set at 5 bar exclusively than I ever did in SF 4. "Failed to send to server" happened an insane amount of times last night. Why the f cannot I not choose to only play opponents from my country to help with lag if I set up a lobby?
The game and it's systems itself are great but it's trappings are shit. It's been continually disappointing in that regard.
You don't have to pay for characters and stages. You know about Fight Money, don't you?^^
Rabid Dwarf 76
Member
Can you link me to threads that called Xrd garbage when it launched? Because I sure don't remember this outrage your talking about. Please enlighten me.
JayWood2010
Member
Its a solid fighting game, but lives mostly off its name in my opinion. This is just a personal opinion but I would rank it the third best fighting game of this generation behind both Killer Instinct and Mortal Kombat X. If you want a competitive fighter with a ton of diversity, then go Killer Instinct. Or go Mortal Kombat X which is the complete package with multiplayer, singleplayer, and presentation.
You also have things such as Guilty Gear which is highly regarded, and King of Fighters. I just dont think Street Fighter V is the unanimous #1 anymore. Itll be among the pro-scene, but that was a given unless it turned out to be complete garbage, which it did not. Its solid. Not ground breaking, but good none the less.
You also have things such as Guilty Gear which is highly regarded, and King of Fighters. I just dont think Street Fighter V is the unanimous #1 anymore. Itll be among the pro-scene, but that was a given unless it turned out to be complete garbage, which it did not. Its solid. Not ground breaking, but good none the less.
Ace Harding
Member
You are right in that the servers have had problems, and it's been out too long to have as many problems as they do. However, 9/10 evenings I play I have no issues. Yesterday the servers were all messed up and I couldn't even sign in but last night they were fine.
But from a gameplay perspective, it's an amazing experience. Maybe it's just because I'm not very good and don't dive into the nuances of character balance.
I don't think the game was big enough to get its own threads, but I definitely remember complaints. People were not happy with Danger Time, with the multiple RC system, and some other stuff. Happens with every fighting game.
This is the point I was trying to make. People complain about every fighting game that comes out, especially if it's a sequel to a series they really enjoy. Here's a link to a Mike Z blog about Xrd if people want to get a list of common complaints about the game when it launched.
http://mikezsez.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-im-not-playing-ggxrd.html
My point isn't that people complain or don't complain about these games, it's that because SFV is more popular than all of these games (and it is, even if it didn't sell well, it's still more popular than any game that isn't by NRS, Smash Bros., or arguably Tekken) so it gets endless threads about things that wouldn't get much attention in other games outside of their OTs. If KOF was SF the Ramon Infinite would get a thread filled with "smh capcpcom" instead of the reasonable, albeit mildly negative response, that it did get. And I know this is true because a similar thing happened with Ibuki's hitbox shenanigans that got quickly patched out before Evo but people still used that as a bludgeon against the game.
And I disagree that Capcom doesn't listen to fans. They toned down anti-air AAs and nerfed Mika (and they nerfed her in a way I specifically saw requested hundreds of times, weakening her Irish Whip). They just also balanced in ways with fans didn't agree with, most notably weakening Nash because Infiltration made the character look better than he actually was. I don't think this is actually that notable because 1) fans disagree about balance changes for every game, including the ones you listed and 2) the balance changes just happened which means that a lot of people are likely wrong about what they add to (everyone thought Bison and Dhalsim were top tier when SFV released and we all know how that turned out).
I value companies communicating with their fans but I don't see the value in Capcom addressing the complaint of the week. These things need time to shake out unless there's clearly something broken in the game and I don't see that in SFV S2. One complaint I haven't seen is that any character is clearly above the rest. The biggest, and perhaps most legitimate complaint, is that characters like Alex were made worse when they weren't great to begin with.
So because one person didn't like a new version of a game series that supports your point? Xrd was always highly praised and only criticized mostly due to the roster choices and dumb shit like danger time. When Revelator released it received nothing but praise. Hell, Revelator arguably has the second biggest scene in the FGC, yet receives almost unanimous praise. SFV has been out for pretty much a year and as time goes on more and more people are complaining about it.
That isn't what I said at all. I said a lot of people complained about Xrd and they did. I said if people wanted a list of some common complaints about Xrd then Mike Z's list includes them.
And Revelator didn't launch with nothing but praise unless you want to discount the countless "why am I being charged full price for a small update in 2015?" complaints. Or the fact that it still has SF4-tier delay based netcode and garbage matchmaking. Also, "arguably" isn't a big enough qualifier. I'll argue that it isn't the 2nd biggest scene in the FGC with the 2016 Evo entrants tally:
inb4 Smash and Pokken aren't fighting games.
DoubleTake
Member
All good posts that I feel encapsulate what SFV is. Not trash, but certainly not amazing either.
I main Urien so I know how it feels to be able to do seemingly whatever you want at a moments notice with Aegis. But at least that requires getting beat up for half the round first. I was on the receiving end of that in Season 1 against Mikas and Chun before he came out. Now I'm on the receiving end of it against Cammy and Laura. There are a few design inconsistencies I feel like with this game. The biggest being how they want players to use neutral more, but whiff punishing is difficult to pull off due to input lag. The risk vs. reward of jump ins against AA.
And then some things just make me scratch my head. Why is Urien so plus on block for cr.MK? I didnt ask for this, I mean I'll take it, but most Urien players will tell you all they really wanted was a better AA. We didnt need a crossup either really...
How am I supposed to know when to press buttons against Laura? And when I do figure that out how do I know I wont be getting command grabbed?
When does Cammy get to stop pushing buttons? ChrisG commented on this in the video. They slow down everyone else's normals but Cammy's stays the same and they nerf her divekicks(the thing that defines her character) so now all she does is walk in shimmy into strong/fierce or do the same tired frametraps into tick throw. Ridiculous.
Why are tick throws a thing? There's no advanced tech to this at all. Its simply a guessing game. And becomes even worse against characters with great walkspeeds like Cammy or Karin. Guile has tick throws too but if you find yourself in the corner against him youve already lost.
Who thought the grey life nerf was a good thing in a game with such high damage and with characters like Laura or Cammy that can keep the pressure on? And dont tell me to just keep them out. Not even the Pro's cant do that every match with the options those two have.
Why lay the smackdown so hard on FANG, Alex, and Nash? Who made these decisions and were they even tested?
In SFV the only top tier character that feels completely honest, while also being fun to watch/play is Guile. His damaging combos are not easy to pull off so the difference between a character specialist and an average player is immediately noticeable, and his v-skill/trigger are great. He doesnt have to beat you with ridiculous shenanigans and his buttons/pressure dont feel like they cant be beaten. 2nd most honest in top tier would be Rog since he requires Vtrigger to really get tricky, 3rd Urien, 4th Cammy, and last would be Laura.
And then you have the mid tier characters who are all borefests, despite being more normalized than a few of the top. Chun is footsie based just poking for openings, Karin is the same, so is Ryu, and Ken, and Akuma...if he can reach you.
Season 2 needs a 2.5 patch to sort out a bit more.
#1 Yes PRICE was Revelator's complaints. Gameplay wise it was virtually nothing but praise. We are talking about gameplay here.
#2 Don't be dense, you know that I am talking about traditional fighting games as those have the closest ties to the FGC. No need to bring up Smash or Pokken which while are fighting games, aren't traditional ones.
Thank you. You've explained my problems with the game better than I could. However, what you feel about Cammy is how I feel about Balrog. If I'm against him in the corner, I've lost already. When he's up close, I have no idea what buttons to press when, but unfortunately getting in for him seems as easy as getting a bar and using an ex move to close the distance.
I will parrot your thoughts about Laura as well. Urien, I don't feel so bad about because I haven't faced too many that are good yet. Heck, that's not to say the Rogs or Laura's are good either, it's just that their shit seems safe AND braindead.
Guile is the only character I feel plays the neutral (besides Dhalsim). Fireballs don't really exist in this game but Guile can get away with it because he recovers too quickly to get punished by the easy fireball counters like Sim teleport or Juri charged v-skill, so you gotta respect his zoning game.
When I win in this game I don't get a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment, and losing doesn't make me salty. I just feel so indifferent because after my matches I'm not thinking "Oh my fireball game was weak" or "I missed that easy punish" I'm thinking "Oh I thought he was gonna grab so I mashed tech/jab but instead he did his crush counter normal". What's the solution? Guess better? :/
GodParticle
Member
I think my problem with this game is that it mostly boils down to one style of play: try to rush down and mash a lot of buttons until you get a counterhit/CC into a generic combo
i stopped playing once season 2 dropped. good enough game IMO but i couldn't be bothered picking up another character after Ken got nerfed lol. He already had not so good normals in season 1 then they made something like 6 of his normals slower in season 2.
honestly makes me miss usf4....and i don't know why
honestly makes me miss usf4....and i don't know why
DoubleTake
Member
Against Balrog youre really forced to just jump on him. If you allow him to start the Oki nonsense it becomes that dreaded guessing game of overhead/low/grab. I play a reckless and sometimes overaggressive Urien so often times im the one in the opponents face. I hate being put in that position as well so I try my best to not let the characters whose game revolves around it to get me there. Why I hate characters like Mika(S1) and Laura who have great mobility to get in while Gief sits in the doldrums praying for green hand.
I dont think Rog is all too bad because it becomes easier to see when theyll try to get the vskill spin into overhead/low/grab going. Once you can id that moment its as simple as pressing a button. Much easier to see than jab jab light fireball, jab light fireball-shoulder, or jab command grab/throw(looking at you Laura).
As to the end of your post. Against certain characters/situations thats pretty much it. Vs. Cammy in the corner, guess. Vs Laura anywhere, guess. Vs. Urien and Rog(especially in the corner) in trigger guess. Some call it "reads" but it still boils down to guessing.
family_guy
Member
I kind of hope the game dies out and prompts Capcom to do Street Fighter Alpha 4.
Well that's dumb.
GodParticle
Member
My man! Now you're talkin'
Jaguar Victory
Member
Just picked up the game yesterday. It's great! Target had it online for $23 store matched it.
The only bullshit is having to unlock or pay for characters and it needs more outfits. Now I just need to get a fight pad because my hands are cramping up tensing up in close games online.
I have so much to learn.
The only bullshit is having to unlock or pay for characters and it needs more outfits. Now I just need to get a fight pad because my hands are cramping up tensing up in close games online.
I have so much to learn.