This thread is ridiculous and is filled with dozens of spurious, nonsense complaints. Here's a few:
- Only one V-Skill. Why does this matter? Why does there have to be alternate V-Skills. It's a new mechanic so it's not like there's precedent for alternate V-Skills. That's like complaining that there isn't a selectable, alternate move for every special move in the game.
- Only one CA. So what, SF2 only had one Super and that's the game SF needs to imitate to be successful, apparently. Regardless, both SF4 and SF3 had selectable Supers/Ultras and 80% of the time there was a clearly superior one. And this game has EX moves. Does that mean any fighting game without them objectively lacking. SF3 didn't have V-Triggers, is it objectively worse? Is the best fighting game the one with the most moves per character?
- "You need to buy all the characters to be competitive." This is bullshit. I've made it to Gold, which is better than the majority of the playerbase by far but nothing special, and I've barely touched any character aside from Karin and Balrog. I get match up experience from playing matches. And if you're talking about needing to buy characters to "go pro" then who cares. Most people's jobs don't buy them a car so they can commute. If spending $30 a year is stopping these people from being pro they weren't going to succeed, anyway. Regardless, pros probably spend enough time with the game to unlock them through play because anyone who isn't abysmal at the game can unlock the 7 characters now if they grinded it out over a weekend.
SFV gets a lot of shit because it's popular. There's certainly fighting games released the last year that are uglier or have worse netcode or are less fun.
I buy and play nearly every major fighting game release and, in turn, I subscribe to their OTs on GAF. One thing I've noticed is that they talk shit about SFV almost as much as they talk about their clearly superior game they love to play. Many of them have posted in this thread.
Sounds like you're defensive about the game. More defensive than you should be. Something wrong?
For the multiple V-Skills . Why are you so dead set on having only one? Some character's V-Skills suck a lot worse than others. I would gladly give up Zangief's shitty ass V-Skill of slowly lumbering forward at the pace of Iron Tager to have a V-Skill of his green hand back.
SF2 had no Super until the very end of the series. And even then that was more of a copy from SNKs games between that rivalry consistently going back and forth and borrowing ideas. And the stating that one Super or Ultra was superior? That depends on a persons playstyle. Remember how worthless everyone thought that Ryu's Denjin Hadouken was in 3? Choosing a Super based on a particular playstyle is helpful depending on a persons play style.
Are you insinuating that games without ex or v-triggers are objectively worse? In Street Fighter 3's case there's more universal mechanics that give character's a better fighting chance and even though it has more moves than other street fighters and the ability to select critical arts gives it more freedom to choose a playstyle within a character rather than what Capcom specifically states HOW a character should be changed "Nash Nerf" But do moves make a fighting game? No, and Super Turbo 2 is still objectively a better game than 5 despite the lack of moves as there's a more defensive offense pull than SFV which seems aimed more towards offense that can't be punished properly since the defensive play has been cut off significantly, or is that simply due to the frame differences on reactions being 4.3 to 6.5-8 depending on stage on 5?
You've made it to gold? Like that's an accomplishment? I've seen people at Super Gold and Ultra gold play garbage. Is this like the battle points where Sir loin will strike you dead if you go under 2000? Or am I thinking of PPs? I see it more of a measure of how much time you played rather than a true measurement of skill. Sire Capcom hath bestoweth me with thy holy gold! Blessed be thee children and fighteth with all their bravery for now I am the gold! But seriously. You want actual experience with characters that goes beyond more superficial understanding and you have to play those characters to gain a more fundamental understanding of how a character works rather than just stick to your fight and make them fight your fight. You have to understand what their fight is and how their fight works and where they pressure you and how to pressure it and learn how long to wait and that comes a hell of a lot easier if you play that character for some period of time rather than figuring out what the hell they are doing in the moment. To say that you don't have to have all the characters is bullshit otherwise unless you enjoy having only a moderate knowledge of how a character works.
And the grinding it out on a weekend? Or 700k of fight money. What if someone wants a story costume? Or a stage? That shit costs fairly close to a character. Or perhaps some colors? Capcom makes a hell of a lot of other shit in there to make sure there's never quite enough to purchase a character. I got six of the characters through fight money, because I'm cheap as fuck. That and I endured the enema inducing bullshit of easy/normal survival, the trials, the story, and at least 10k from winning matches online at their generous fifty bison dollars of fight money per win.
Popular? You mean that 1.4 million they sold for the first month and then the 100k they sold for the entire year? Yeah, that shit is lit up. It's sold far less than the previous installment and Capcom killed their own hype by sending it as is.
I also buy most fighting games. Is SF5 the best graphically? No. I'd go with Killer Instinct or Mortal Kombat X to hold that honor. Hell, even Dead or Alive Last Round looks better. I've bought some clear acquired taste games like Koihime Enbu on PS4, or that Shining blade Fighting game or Denbenny Climax Elation from Sega. But at least they weren't hyped to hell like SFV. That and perhaps some of us expected more from Capcom? Who knows. But Aksys, NetherRealm, Whoever makes Killer Instinct now, and SNK have delivered far better packages for their games right now than Capcom delivered at launch. Hell if the game was 30 bucks at launch, I'm sure they wouldn't have this much rage and fury. But the anger and general apathy along with how people feel about the game is justified.
Feeling better now champ?
Sounds like you're defensive about the game. More defensive than you should be. Something wrong?
You're responding to every other comment with 10,000 word essays, quickly forming a War and Peace-sized tome about how SFV is a shit game and I'm defensive? Thou doth protest too much.
I claim malarky and Trump lies on this post. Last post I did was 805 words. Post before that was 17 words. And the post before that was a picture of Friendly uncle Xanadu and 54 words. That is not war and peace. This is a more cold look at Street Fighter V without those blinders on. Granted Street Fighter IV also had it's faults, but at launch it felt a FUCK lot more exciting and had a lot more favorable momentum than Street Fighter V ever mustered. Barring all those Sagat players who claimed to say they played the character and not tiers, then dump his ass the moment Super came out and he got hit by the capcom nerf hammer.
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.Yes. Please share. Also, how many PP do you have?
Fine, just like you don't understand the difference between objectivity and subjectivity you don't recognize exaggeration for effect. You got me.
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
I mean, I have a super fresh Ibuki that I've been meaning to switch to due to my inability to deal with Mika's neutral game changes. I'm hovering just above 3000 pp.lol someone play this dude
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
Literal kind of killed the feel. But for the sake of objectivity, do you really believe that Street Fighter V is alright as it is right now? Do you feel it will continue to draw more people in? Do you not feel like the game could be a hell of a lot better than what we got? Sure the opinions are subjective, and there ranges the gamut of people who will defend it saying it's great, and others that will say it's shit. I don't say that the game is outright shit, but I do believe that there is a lot more work that needs to be done, and that if done properly it can be a hell of a lot better than the sum of its current parts.
Back in April or May Capcom said they were shocked by Infiltration's play style with Nash, they didn't intend Nash to be played like that, one of the biggest reason he got Nerf is Infiltration..lol
SFV gets a lot of shit because it's popular.
I feel like the worst part about SFV is a lack of options. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of creative playstyles. In SFIV you could tell when certain players were playing a character. You could tell that was Daigos RYU or SMUGs Dudley.
If you're east coast I can play you sometime today if you'd like. Haven't played in a little bit as my current stick is having some bad input registration with the up inputs but I've got a bit of room I can squeeze some matches in when I get home today if around noon EST works for you. CFN: ApplesSo what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
I feel Justin plays a distinctly different kind of Karin to say, Wrathmatics or Mago.I feel like the worst part about SFV is a lack of options. There just doesn't seem to be a lot of creative playstyles. In SFIV you could tell when certain players were playing a character. You could tell that was Daigos RYU or SMUGs Dudley. In SFV, we seem to all have the same gameplan (does anyone really play Karin that differently?)... Although newer characters like Urien are admittedly allowing more freedom in this regard.
The gameplay is great. Pro gamers are fickle, stubborn, and reactionary to the point of parody, especially when they're not winning.
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
Back in April or May Capcom said they were shocked by Infiltration's play style with Nash, they didn't intend Nash to be played like that, one of the biggest reason he got Nerf is Infiltration..lol
So what is this you guys are all scared to play now? My pp is like 1800 something. Haven't played online since April. I never play but that'd the point, I will win anyway cause my chatacter is cheap.
So they're going to nerf a character every time someone exceptional uses them?
Then how do you want him played exactly? Just because many of us developed a unique play style we should be punished for it? That just seems odd. Plus his style is what helped me improve my game so much
Of all the reasons to shit on SFV the game balance isn't one of them. I'm not sure there's a current gen fighting game that does it better unless you count the PS4 port of USF4.
All these games I've listed have huge problems that people don't talk about because it's not the popular game in the spotlight. Imagine what kind of shit KOF XIV would get for Ramon's infinite or launching with atrocious netcode or the PS2-quality models if it was SFV popular (well, it does get a ton of shit for its graphics anyway). Or how many threads of outrage would we get every time ASW sells a balance update with a few new characters as a full-priced game.
All these games I've listed have huge problems that people don't talk about because it's not the popular game in the spotlight. Imagine what kind of shit KOF XIV would get for Ramon's infinite or launching with atrocious netcode or the PS2-quality models if it was SFV popular (well, it does get a ton of shit for its graphics anyway).
You aren't gonna get compliance from a talker like him.Ucchedavāda;228404086 said:If you are in Europe (or nearby) then I'd gladly play some sets with you.
Some more practice against Urien certainly wouldn't be amiss in my case.
But if that is not practical, then you just tell us your CFN name, jump online for a few matches to demonstrate how cheap your character is, and then we can easily watch those matches in-game using the replay feature.
Online is still crap tho. I get more shit connections set at 5 bar exclusively than I ever did in SF 4. "Failed to send to server" happened an insane amount of times last night. Why the f cannot I not choose to only play opponents from my country to help with lag if I set up a lobby?The trashing of the game is ridiculous IMO. I'm having a ton of fun with it and it's better than SFIV which was a fantastic game. Just casually watching streams I see a ton of good players using a pretty wide variety of players so it can't be that unbalanced. S2 was what, 3-4 weeks ago? Still needs time to breathe. Which is what all these people getting so worked about about the game need to do. Relaaaaaax. Have fun with a video game.
I liked the story mode even though it's not as good as Mortal Kombat's. Game looks nice and is fun to play for a couple rounds with friends. Don't like that you have to pay for characters and stages, but that's how the market goes these days.
Can you link me to threads that called Xrd garbage when it launched? Because I sure don't remember this outrage your talking about. Please enlighten me.Guilty Gear Xrd was called garbage when it was first released because it wasn't enough like GGXX.
Online is still crap tho. I get more shit connections set at 5 bar exclusively than I ever did in SF 4. "Failed to send to server" happened an insane amount of times last night. Why the f cannot I not choose to only play opponents from my country to help with lag if I set up a lobby?
The game and it's systems itself are great but it's trappings are shit. It's been continually disappointing in that regard.
Can you link me to threads that called Xrd garbage when it launched? Because I sure don't remember this outrage your talking about. Please enlighten me.
I don't think the game was big enough to get its own threads, but I definitely remember complaints. People were not happy with Danger Time, with the multiple RC system, and some other stuff. Happens with every fighting game.
This just isn't true though. People don't talk about the Ramon infinite because SNK pretty quickly addressed it telling players not to waste time practicing it because it had already been fixed.
In the case of ArcSys revisions....people DO complain about it, in every ArcSys thread. lol. Even the thread announcing the revision where they're actually selling the new version as a paid balance update like SFIV
I think the difference between them and Capcom is we can tell that Arc and SNK are acting based on player feedback. They communicate with their players and it leads to real results in their games.
This is the point I was trying to make. People complain about every fighting game that comes out, especially if it's a sequel to a series they really enjoy. Here's a link to a Mike Z blog about Xrd if people want to get a list of common complaints about the game when it launched.
http://mikezsez.blogspot.com/2015/01/why-im-not-playing-ggxrd.html
So because one person didn't like a new version of a game series that supports your point? Xrd was always highly praised and only criticized mostly due to the roster choices and dumb shit like danger time. When Revelator released it received nothing but praise. Hell, Revelator arguably has the second biggest scene in the FGC, yet receives almost unanimous praise. SFV has been out for pretty much a year and as time goes on more and more people are complaining about it.
Street Fighter V: 5065
Super Smash Bros. for Wii U: 2637
Super Smash Bros. Melee: 2350
Pokkén Tournament: 1165
Guilty Gear Xrd: 903
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3: 770
Mortal Kombat X: 707
Tekken 7: 543
Killer Instinct: 540
SFV's game play accomplishes what it sets out to do which is to be a fighting game that is easy to get into in almost every sense. Execution is easier and moves have very obvious uses plus there is more universal stuff in the game that makes it easy to learn (no invincible attacks without meter, most mediums are plus and useful from frame traps, sweeps are all punishable). Stuff just makes sense at a base level, you don't need to learn OSes to do well (there's like one commonly used OS and it's not even hard to use). There aren't a lot of mechanics to learn either. Throw game is simple and straightforward, no crouch teching. What you see is what you get, SFV is a very tightly designed game and no one is doing something that isn't intended by design, for better or for worse.
Things are different at high levels of course. SFV is designed to be more aggressive so jump ins are much better than anti airs in general (when weighing risk vs reward) and so are dashes plus combos and pressure. Combined with stuff being hard to react to and the game's high stun, damage and meter gain...games can end fast off of small mistakes which no pro player ever likes no matter the game. ChrisG was more salty at players down playing their character versus the game.
The main point of discussion should be about whether season 2 was better for the game or not in terms of game play balance. You are going to hear a lot of mixed opinions on that.
I don't like the way the neutral game is setup. Jump ins are too good and there is less incentive to have good defense. The slow ass walk speeds, unsafe backdashes and crush counters make pressure way too good in this game. You'll notice all the top tiers are built around rushing that shit down.
Depending on the person, the game being really formulaic is a turn off/on. With SFV, they have stated that they want specific moves to be used for specific reasons and it appears that they've actually followed through with that direction e.g. don't use light attacks so much for combo purposes, instead use medium attacks. Don't recklessly use some heavy attacks because they're unsafe. With Season 2, don't meterless DP unless maybe for anti-air, etc.
Any game that makes the player feel like their viable options are limited can make the game feel like it lacks depth.
Having said this, I think the game play is solid. An iteration of SF at one of it's most accessible. As an low-average player, I have enough "depth" to work with in still learning the basics/fundamentals and utilizing the options I have in the game. As a pro, I assume who has learned basics/fundamentals, then they are just left with the apparent options the game provides which may or may not be interesting enough to their liking.
For the record, Chris G has stated on more than one occasion that he dislikes USF4 more than SF5. Everyone has their opinion and that's fine but take his with a grain of salt. People like JWong have said that they like SF5 quite a lot.
I don't think the game is bad. I certainly enjoy it far more than 4 (although 3S is still my favourite). With that said, I can't say I'm a fan of the season 2 changes. The top tier is more oppressive than ever and in a more annoying way. We've gone from a top tier including characters with strong fundamentals (excepting Chun's IAL and Mika) to a top tier consisting of characters that all hit like freight trains and just vortex people to death with endless gimmicks. The latter is far less fun to deal with and it seems like you really need to have a pocket Rog/Guile/Laura/Cammy/Urien to counterpick the other top tiers unless you want to play a 7-3 match-up.
Oh, and here's a news flash. Balance and gameplay-wise, vanilla Street Fighters have always been piles of garbage. SF5 is by far the best first iteration of a mainline SF game.
That isn't what I said at all. I said a lot of people complained about Xrd and they did. I said if people wanted a list of some common complaints about Xrd then Mike Z's list includes them.
And Revelator didn't launch with nothing but praise unless you want to discount the countless "why am I being charged full price for a small update in 2015?" complaints. Or the fact that it still has SF4-tier delay based netcode and garbage matchmaking. Also, "arguably" isn't a big enough qualifier. I'll argue that it isn't the 2nd biggest scene in the FGC with the 2016 Evo entrants tally:
inb4 Smash and Pokken aren't fighting games.
Thank you. You've explained my problems with the game better than I could. However, what you feel about Cammy is how I feel about Balrog. If I'm against him in the corner, I've lost already. When he's up close, I have no idea what buttons to press when, but unfortunately getting in for him seems as easy as getting a bar and using an ex move to close the distance.All good posts that I feel encapsulate what SFV is. Not trash, but certainly not amazing either.
I main Urien so I know how it feels to be able to do seemingly whatever you want at a moments notice with Aegis. But at least that requires getting beat up for half the round first. I was on the receiving end of that in Season 1 against Mikas and Chun before he came out. Now I'm on the receiving end of it against Cammy and Laura. There are a few design inconsistencies I feel like with this game. The biggest being how they want players to use neutral more, but whiff punishing is difficult to pull off due to input lag. The risk vs. reward of jump ins against AA.
And then some things just make me scratch my head. Why is Urien so plus on block for cr.MK? I didnt ask for this, I mean I'll take it, but most Urien players will tell you all they really wanted was a better AA. We didnt need a crossup either really...
How am I supposed to know when to press buttons against Laura? And when I do figure that out how do I know I wont be getting command grabbed?
When does Cammy get to stop pushing buttons? ChrisG commented on this in the video. They slow down everyone else's normals but Cammy's stays the same and they nerf her divekicks(the thing that defines her character) so now all she does is walk in shimmy into strong/fierce or do the same tired frametraps into tick throw. Ridiculous.
Why are tick throws a thing? There's no advanced tech to this at all. Its simply a guessing game. And becomes even worse against characters with great walkspeeds like Cammy or Karin. Guile has tick throws too but if you find yourself in the corner against him youve already lost.
Who thought the grey life nerf was a good thing in a game with such high damage and with characters like Laura or Cammy that can keep the pressure on? And dont tell me to just keep them out. Not even the Pro's cant do that every match with the options those two have.
Why lay the smackdown so hard on FANG, Alex, and Nash? Who made these decisions and were they even tested?
In SFV the only top tier character that feels completely honest, while also being fun to watch/play is Guile. His damaging combos are not easy to pull off so the difference between a character specialist and an average player is immediately noticeable, and his v-skill/trigger are great. He doesnt have to beat you with ridiculous shenanigans and his buttons/pressure dont feel like they cant be beaten. 2nd most honest in top tier would be Rog since he requires Vtrigger to really get tricky, 3rd Urien, 4th Cammy, and last would be Laura.
And then you have the mid tier characters who are all borefests, despite being more normalized than a few of the top. Chun is footsie based just poking for openings, Karin is the same, so is Ryu, and Ken, and Akuma...if he can reach you.
Season 2 needs a 2.5 patch to sort out a bit more.
#1 Yes PRICE was Revelator's complaints. Gameplay wise it was virtually nothing but praise. We are talking about gameplay here.
#2 Don't be dense, you know that I am talking about traditional fighting games as those have the closest ties to the FGC. No need to bring up Smash or Pokken which while are fighting games, aren't traditional ones.
Thank you. You've explained my problems with the game better than I could. However, what you feel about Cammy is how I feel about Balrog. If I'm against him in the corner, I've lost already. When he's up close, I have no idea what buttons to press when, but unfortunately getting in for him seems as easy as getting a bar and using an ex move to close the distance.
I will parrot your thoughts about Laura as well. Urien, I don't feel so bad about because I haven't faced too many that are good yet. Heck, that's not to say the Rogs or Laura's are good either, it's just that their shit seems safe AND braindead.
Guile is the only character I feel plays the neutral (besides Dhalsim). Fireballs don't really exist in this game but Guile can get away with it because he recovers too quickly to get punished by the easy fireball counters like Sim teleport or Juri charged v-skill, so you gotta respect his zoning game.
When I win in this game I don't get a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment, and losing doesn't make me salty. I just feel so indifferent because after my matches I'm not thinking "Oh my fireball game was weak" or "I missed that easy punish" I'm thinking "Oh I thought he was gonna grab so I mashed tech/jab but instead he did his crush counter normal". What's the solution? Guess better? :/
I kind of hope the game dies out and prompts Capcom to do Street Fighter Alpha 4.
I kind of hope the game dies out and prompts Capcom to do Street Fighter Alpha 4.