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[Funkybee12]

I totally agree with Chris G.
1st time ever in my 24 years of SF experience, that the game felt so freaking broken that I haven't touched it since may or something.
Tried so hard to get into it but it's just pure toxicity. Can't even have fun in that game let alone tryharding in ranked. a huge amount of bullshit happens in-game.
I just couldn't stand it anymore, being so boring combo-wise, mechanics wise etc etc.
Imagine, I prefer getting intoxicated in league of legends rather than breaking devices close to me while trying to have some decent time in SFV. (last time i played, got so salty because of some glitchy shit that i don't remember that ended up breaking my keyboard, & no i'm not a noob in case somebody would reply).

 

[Rickenslacker]

Cross play is such a godsend. This honestly puts SFV and KI on a special place for me, not having a fragmented player base. Look at MKX, with its strongly diminished online presence it would really benefit from cross play.

I absolutely love the unified playerbase, I feel it's an essential thing going forward with the genre to make crossplay an imperative feature to prioritize.

 

[AgentOtaku]

I think SFV is my second favourite street fighter game of all time, right behind Super Turbo.

IMO the gameplay is amazing. It rewards good footsies and reacting to the opponent. The speed feels good, the hits feel like they have impact. There isn't a ridiculous comeback mechanic that you get for free once per round, just for taking damage, like SF4s ultra combo meter (revenge meter). Instead they invented the v-trigger system which allows for the possibility of big comebacks, but does so by altering the characters playstyle, instead of just landing one hit and inflicting an instant 40% + damage.
On the whole the new characters are MUCH more appealing than the newcomers in SF4, although they couldn't have done much worse than El Fuerte.

SFV is already the game I've put the most hours into from this gen, and I can't see myself stopping anytime soon.

Agreed

This and TITANFALL2 are my most playee games this GEN

SFV got me back into fighters

 

[Zombegoast]

Eventually people who dislike SFV will find something newer to hate on and those of us who like it will continue playing it. Later, when SFVI is released, everybody will talk about how great SFV was, and then the overall negativity will finally be erased.

That really depend how SF6 is at launch vs SF5's. The hate is justifiable when the servers are still broken for almost a year now with Capcom still lacking communication with the fan base.

Now S2 dropped and the fgc do not like the balance changes because now its about picking a top tier to win.

It made me appreciate SF4 with the variety of charecters used during tournaments. And having beta test in the arcades

 

[FonkyByNature]

Agreed

This and TITANFALL2 are my most playee games this GEN

SFV got me back into fighters

Same for me, i love Street Fighter V, it got a lot better online and i can find matches easily now with good connection. It's getting closer and closer to being one of my favorite SF games.

Titanfall 2 also is the shit !!

I can live happily with these two games for my online competition fix.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

AIDS are the late symptoms of infection brought on by the human immunodeficiency virus also known as HIV. I can see how Chris G might mistake the gameplay of SFV for AIDS, but ultimately he is mistaken.

So corny and in bad taste

 

[Sayad]

I totally agree with Chris G.
1st time ever in my 24 years of SF experience, that the game felt so freaking broken that I haven't touched it since may or something.

You obviously don't totally agree with him because he still think it's better than SFIV! ;p

 

[Moaradin]

That really depend how SF6 is at launch vs SF5's. The hate is justifiable when the servers are still broken for almost a year now with Capcom still lacking communication with the fan base.

Now S2 dropped and the fgc do not like the balance changes because now its about picking a top tier to win.

It made me appreciate SF4 with the variety of charecters used during tournaments. And having beta test in the arcades

SFV last year was a lot more varied in character variety than most of SF4s lifespan. It was only towards the end of Ultra where we were getting pretty good variety, but SF4 top tiers were way worse than they are in SFV. Vanilla Sagat and Akuma, AE Yun, etc.

 

[Alucrid]

So corny and in bad taste

i'm not the one calling a video game i dislike "AIDS"

 

[sephi22]

I've been putting some more time in learning whiff punishing or playing more reactive. It seems my problems with Balrog might just be matchup specific (friend says Sim-Rog is like 3-7 if not worse).

It seems the metagame wasn't this stale in Season 1. I really should've put more time into that. The new version shine made me want to jump headfirst into season 2, but it seems this wasn't the best jumping off point.

Laura, Balrog, Guile, Urien - these 4 seem to be the hardest to figure out, and it seems like if you're playing against them, you're playing at their pace. Against every other character I can set the pace of the match, and go ham, but against these four I can't help but play a bit afraid, which might be hurting more than it helps.

Also I'm not sure if Juri/Dhalsim is a good combination. The best players seem to think Season 2 is about learning 2 characters that cover each other's bad matchups, and I'm not sure if I'm getting that with my choice of characters.

EDIT: I've also been learning Revelator on the side. Dabbling in Ramlethal/Venom. The game looks and plays incredible BUT the issues I have with SFV (plus normals leading to frame traps, 50/50s) are just exacerbated in Revelator. Slayer just seems like SFV the character on paper, and he's solid mid/low tier. The real crazy characters like Millia or Chipp put you in the blender way worse than him or any SFV character. It seems Xrd follows the 'fight bullshit with bullshit' strategy and gives a lot of freedom in terms of defensive and movement options so it can still come out relatively balanced coz it seems every character can ravage any other in the corner like Laura or Rog can do in V. Between I-No's ridiculous high/lows, Venom's ball pressure, and Elphelt and Zato's unblockables, Xrd is the distillation of 'When do I press a button?'. I don't understand how the same people can revile SFV's metagame yet praise Xrd, unless it's a case of GG's gameplay being a better fit historically or through design, while SFV clumsily ended up playing a way SF didn't historically.

Whats the issue with the gameplay? I think it's better then SFIV, and has some pretty cool stuff in it. 1- Frame links is why I disliked SFIV. So dumb. If that's what you mean by lack of depth in execution/combos I'm glad it's gone.

I can't speak for everyone, but I do miss the high execution/long combos, but it's not a big problem or dealbreaker. My problem is how the moment to moment gameplay is in matches, especially as you get better. Zoning using projectiles doesn't exist, and people don't play risky or reactive. It ends up being a guessing game between 2 or 3 safe options that have barely any risk for the attacker, but huge reward if the defender guesses wrong. When successful, these options lead to another reset or knockdown, leading to another meaty/throw mixup into another reset/knockdown (50/50s). Because of Crush counters, not only is throwing out a dp insanely risky if blocked, but even pressing jab to break pressure is insanely risky if they do a meaty CC normal, leading to 40% damage easy for trying to break pressure when you thought there was a gap in a blockstring

 

[HappehLemons]

Whats the issue with the gameplay? I think it's better then SFIV, and has some pretty cool stuff in it. 1- Frame links is why I disliked SFIV. So dumb. If that's what you mean by lack of depth in execution/combos I'm glad it's gone.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

EDIT: I've also been learning Revelator on the side. Dabbling in Ramlethal/Venom. The game looks and plays incredible BUT the issues I have with SFV (plus normals leading to frame traps, 50/50s) are just exacerbated in Revelator. Slayer just seems like SFV the character on paper, and he's solid mid/low tier. The real crazy characters like Millia or Chipp put you in the blender way worse than him or any SFV character. It seems Xrd follows the 'fight bullshit with bullshit' strategy and gives a lot of freedom in terms of defensive and movement options so it can still come out relatively balanced coz it seems every character can ravage any other in the corner like Laura or Rog can do in V. Between I-No's ridiculous high/lows, Venom's ball pressure, and Elphelt and Zato's unblockables, Xrd is the distillation of 'When do I press a button?'. I don't understand how the same people can revile SFV's metagame yet praise Xrd, unless it's a case of GG's gameplay being a better fit historically or through design, while SFV clumsily ended up playing a way SF didn't historically.

I'm not sure your comparisons are accurate. How are you drawing these conclusions? It doesn't really seem like you're considering overall design with these criticisms. For example, Slayer and Laura are both explosive close range damage characters, but Slayer lacks safe pressure and is vulnerable to long range characters and reversals. While Laura exists in a game that's eliminated invincible reversals and has greatly weakened ranged play styles, and she has frame advantage on a special that leads to big damage. I'm not sure why you consider him "SFV the character".

Personally why I find the Infiltration interview so interesting is that he criticizes things in SFV that I think Guilty Gear has done well for years. Specifically in regards to balance. I think there is a discernible intent behind the design and balance in Xrd. Millia and Chipp, like you say, put you "in the blender", but are designed with certain weaknesses to compensate. Not only do they have low damage, giving your opponent many chances to guess right, but they also take more damage giving them less chances to make mistakes. It's why Chipp, while strong, is a really inconsistent and volatile pick in the current game, and Millia while strong in every game, requires ALOT of game knowledge to be successful with at high level. Vs Capcom "blender" characters like Ibuki in SF4 who could apply the same Kunai setups across the entire case for the most part prior to delayed wake up. Basically Arc's design decisions, at least with Guilty Gear, rarely leave you wondering what they were thinking. and the ones that do(1.0 Ram. Launch Elphelt.) are quickly addressed.

Also his point about feeling like Capcom "punished" him for doing well or playing the character Nash in a way they didn't design him to be played. One of the things I love about Guilty Gear is that they don't just balance around character strength, but player enjoyment. Back in I believe #Reload, Anji had unblockable setups off his butterfly special, which hit high. In later versions they removed this property as it was unreasonably strong. But players had expressed that they found this quality of Anji fun, so in AC Anji's forcebreak(EX special) butterfly regained this overhead property allowing Anji to setup unblockables by spending meter.

It's also why strong characters like Johnny, Sin, Elphelt, Millia and Zato have remained strong throughout the Xrd's lifespan. They balance their games in a way to make matchups as "fair" as possible, but not completely neuter characters and playstyles.

Except 1.0 Ram. 1.0 Ram was bullshit lmao.

 

[Zombegoast]

Whats the issue with the gameplay? I think it's better then SFIV, and has some pretty cool stuff in it. 1- Frame links is why I disliked SFIV. So dumb. If that's what you mean by lack of depth in execution/combos I'm glad it's gone.

You don't need to learn how to do 1 frame links. I managed to reach 4k with Decapre with a controller.

Meanwhile footsies, fireballs and now reversals are at its worse in the series. Balance in S2 is also a mess just look at Urien an compare him to the other rosters.

 

[Murdamonk]

I totally agree with Chris G.
1st time ever in my 24 years of SF experience, that the game felt so freaking broken that I haven't touched it since may or something.
Tried so hard to get into it but it's just pure toxicity. Can't even have fun in that game let alone tryharding in ranked. a huge amount of bullshit happens in-game.
I just couldn't stand it anymore, being so boring combo-wise, mechanics wise etc etc.
Imagine, I prefer getting intoxicated in league of legends rather than breaking devices close to me while trying to have some decent time in SFV. (last time i played, got so salty because of some glitchy shit that i don't remember that ended up breaking my keyboard, & no i'm not a noob in case somebody would reply).

The game has changed quite a lot since May. And playing with a keyboard isn't the best way to play this game...

 

[killdatninja]

I haven't played S2 of SFV yet... but I'm going to weigh my opinion anyway. I liked the overall gameplay in SFV more than vanilla SFIV. There's a lot of stuff throughout SFIV cycle that I didn't like, and completely stopped playing by the time USFIV released. For me, it felt like everyone was playing the characters the same way, with the same tired bread and butter combos, same safe jump-in attack (which lead to either a low short or throw) and the same frame-trap/option select setups. It was super boring, you played one Ken you've played them all, the only difference is that pro's read the game better and executed consistently. It was very rare you played someone with a different style of play because everyone just copied off each other. SFV was a breathe of fresh air compared to what SFIV became, it got rid of most of everything I loathed about SFIV: Option selects, gone. Plinking, nope. Ultra meter (dumb), gtfo! FADC (fuck safe yolo options), negative. Vortex heavy setups, uh-uh. Runaway timeout cheese, yuck. That being said, I'll give S2 a chance this weekend and see if my feelings still hold up.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Did anyone talking about how great & balanced this game was ever offer to play me?

 

[cackhyena]

So corny and in bad taste

The irony of a post like this...

 

[Dinjoralo]

You don't need to learn how to do 1 frame links. I managed to reach 4k with Decapre with a controller.

Meanwhile footsies, fireballs and now reversals are at its worse in the series. Balance in S2 is also a mess just look at Urien an compare him to the other rosters.

SFIV was something I just couldn't get into because of how stingy it was with timing and inputs across the board. To me, a good fighting game should have all the tools you need to really play the game "right" easily available while having more to learn beyond that, and both IV and V miss this mark IMHO. In IV you can barely get decent damage unless you know the ins and outs of all the links, and V doesn't have enough room to grow.

 

[Imperfected]

I love Infiltration, but this is sad. You can't be all "Download Complete" and 'I main the whole cast' and then throw a temper tantrum (legit breaking toys haha) over nerfs.

Yeah, it makes it pretty hard to take any of his criticisms seriously when he's unable to maintain any appearance of impartiality.

Like, you're a great player and I absolutely respect your expertise and experience, but if you're very nearly literally bawling that your toy was taken away, how much consideration am I supposed to give your opinion until you've calmed down? How much of that is actual, impartial criticism from a place that wants to see the game be the best it can be for everyone who plays it, and how much is sour grapes over your personal vendetta?

Maybe he can revisit these complaints in a month or two once he's adjusted and settled down.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I'm not sure your comparisons are accurate. How are you drawing these conclusions? It doesn't really seem like you're considering overall design with these criticisms. For example, Slayer and Laura are both explosive close range damage characters, but Slayer lacks safe pressure and is vulnerable to long range characters and reversals. While Laura exists in a game that's eliminated invincible reversals and has greatly weakened ranged play styles, and she has frame advantage on a special that leads to big damage. I'm not sure why you consider him "SFV the character".

Personally why I find the Infiltration interview so interesting is that he criticizes things in SFV that I think Guilty Gear has done well for years. Specifically in regards to balance. I think there is a discernible intent behind the design and balance in Xrd. Millia and Chipp, like you say, put you "in the blender", but are designed with certain weaknesses to compensate. Not only do they have low damage, giving your opponent many chances to guess right, but they also take more damage giving them less chances to make mistakes. It's why Chipp, while strong, is a really inconsistent and volatile pick in the current game, and Millia while strong in every game, requires ALOT of game knowledge to be successful with at high level. Vs Capcom "blender" characters like Ibuki in SF4 who could apply the same Kunai setups across the entire case for the most part prior to delayed wake up. Basically Arc's design decisions, at least with Guilty Gear, rarely leave you wondering what they were thinking. and the ones that do(1.0 Ram. Launch Elphelt.) are quickly addressed.

Also his point about feeling like Capcom "punished" him for doing well or playing the character Nash in a way they didn't design him to be played. One of the things I love about Guilty Gear is that they don't just balance around character strength, but player enjoyment. Back in I believe #Reload, Anji had unblockable setups off his butterfly special, which hit high. In later versions they removed this property as it was unreasonably strong. But players had expressed that they found this quality of Anji fun, so in AC Anji's forcebreak(EX special) butterfly regained this overhead property allowing Anji to setup unblockables by spending meter.

It's also why strong characters like Johnny, Sin, Elphelt, Millia and Zato have remained strong throughout the Xrd's lifespan. They balance their games in a way to make matchups as "fair" as possible, but not completely neuter characters and playstyles.

Except 1.0 Ram. 1.0 Ram was bullshit lmao.

if I get GG, would you do sets with me? I'm giving SFV a rest until the real update.

 

[Skilletor]

I love Infiltration, but this is sad. You can't be all "Download Complete" and 'I main the whole cast' and then throw a temper tantrum (legit breaking toys haha) over nerfs.

He didn't break the toy. Kidrobot figures come apart really easy.

It's not really a temper tantrum when Capcom literally went out of their way to take away a unique playstyle because they didn't envision the character being played in such a way. It screams reaction, especially when, at the end of the year,: 1. Infil wasn't the best Charlie. 2. Charlie wasn't winning as much.

Totally feels like the balance changes were decided on after/around EVO.

if I get GG, would you do sets with me? I'm giving SFV a rest until the real update.

I'll play. I'm giving SF5 a break for awhile. Tired of the game fighting me when all I want to do is play.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Did anyone talking about how great & balanced this game was ever offer to play me?

What a coincidence, I was just checking the thread to see if anyone beat your ass yet.

Have you even given your CFN?

Just so everyone's clear, are you claiming you can beat anyone regardless of rank? How many times? What are the parameters of the "ZeroTheShadow" challenge?

 

[Ace Harding]

What a coincidence, I was just checking the thread to see if anyone beat your ass yet.

Have you even given your CFN?

Just so everyone's clear, are you claiming you can beat anyone regardless of rank? How many times? What are the parameters of the "ZeroTheShadow" challenge?

Yeah what happened here? Zero never posted his CFN. There are some pretty high ranked players in the SFV OT that I would bet can handle a "haven't played since April" Urien.

 

[F-Pina]

I have zero problems, liked it as much as IV.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Did anyone talking about how great & balanced this game was ever offer to play me?

As I wrote before, I'll gladly play you if you are in or near Europe (further away than that tends to result in some rather rough connections).

 

[Glitter and Gold]

if I get GG, would you do sets with me? I'm giving SFV a rest until the real update.

Sure man. Also check out the OT. Seems like a lot of new people are picking up the game in the wake of the Steam release.

Yeah, it makes it pretty hard to take any of his criticisms seriously when he's unable to maintain any appearance of impartiality.

Like, you're a great player and I absolutely respect your expertise and experience, but if you're very nearly literally bawling that your toy was taken away, how much consideration am I supposed to give your opinion until you've calmed down? How much of that is actual, impartial criticism from a place that wants to see the game be the best it can be for everyone who plays it, and how much is sour grapes over your personal vendetta?

Maybe he can revisit these complaints in a month or two once he's adjusted and settled down.

I don't know how you got this reading of all from his words. He specifically said he didn't speak up immediately after CC or the patch to avoid this kind of reaction.

Think of it from his perspective. You pioneer this emergent playstyle and do really well in your favorite company's game, and they completely remove the way you like to play. Not only does it sting on a personal level, but on a macro level it sets a precedent for Capcom's design philosophy for the game. "Play our game our way, or else". lol

It's easy to point and laugh at him being salty, but think about it. What incentive is there to be that good and develop characters in out of the box ways if these kind of changes occur as a result of that effort? It discourages character loyalty and innovation for short term "playing the patch" mindsets. Personally I think that's a terrible climate for fighting games and I think similar experiences and feelings to what Infiltration expresses here can be observed from players at all levels. (In this very thread you have people stating how they're losing interest due to their playstyle getting hit hard)

 

[lucebuce12]

Did anyone talking about how great & balanced this game was ever offer to play me?

While I don't think that it's exactly amazingly balanced, it's certainly not to the point where a person who hasn't even played the game for months will beat someone who plays consistently.

If you're in the Middle Eastern/South Asia-ish region then I can play you. Otherwise for Europe, you have Ucchedavāda and a lot of other players for US.

 

[Imperfected]

Think of it from his perspective. You pioneer this emergent playstyle and do really well in your favorite company's game, and they completely remove the way you like to play. Not only does it sting on a personal level, but on a macro level it sets a precedent for Capcom's design philosophy for the game. "Play our game our way, or else". lol

Do you want a balanced experience, or not?

They said flat-out that they did not understand the character could or would be played that way. That implies that they did not--could not--balance around the character being played that way. Therefore once they became aware that the character could be used in that way, they had to completely revisit the balancing of that character.

That's simple logic. I don't really know what you would expect. Yes, it sucks to be the guy that put in the work developing a style of play that completely blindsided people, but you have to anticipate that when they're done being gobsmacked by what you've done they're going to adjust appropriately.

I mean, what do you want them to do? Say, "Oh wow, we never realized Nash could be played like that and didn't take it into account with any of the balancing we did on other characters. I guess we'll just rebalance every other character in the game to account for this new way of playing Nash, instead of making any adjustments to Nash!"

Be realistic.

It's easy to point and laugh at him being salty, but think about it. What incentive is there to be that good and develop characters in out of the box ways if these kind of changes occur as a result of that effort? It discourages character loyalty and innovation for short term "playing the patch" mindsets. Personally I think that's a terrible climate for fighting games and I think similar experiences and feelings to what Infiltration expresses here can be observed from players at all levels. (In this very thread you have people stating how they're losing interest due to their playstyle getting hit hard)

You're going to have to get used to a "playing the patch" mentality in modern competitive games, because the benefits from a design perspective are too great to ignore. The most consistently popular online multiplayer games in the world were built on that fundamental strategy. The constant reinvigoration of the experience through balance changes is what keeps people playing DOTA, LOL, Overwatch, etc. even after the initial novelty has long worn off.

For every person who lost interest because their character got nerfed, there are ten whose interest in the game had waned due to simple boredom who are excited to try out new characters that weren't "viable" last season who have probably played more in a week than they had in the three months prior as a result. The broader audience is very much attracted to an evolving experience.

(Whether or not there's still any value in a broad market strategy with how badly they botched the launch is another issue entirely, of course. You can certainly make the argument that at this juncture they're better off forgetting about player retention in the general market/growing the playerbase and instead just focusing on the core enthusiasts, who might by and large prefer the game to get locked long-term into a single state.)

 

[Skilletor]

Do you want a balanced experience, or not?

They said flat-out that they did not understand the character could or would be played that way. That implies that they did not--could not--balance around the character being played that way. Therefore once they became aware that the character could be used in that way, they had to completely revisit the balancing of that character.

That's simple logic. I don't really know what you would expect. Yes, it sucks to be the guy that put in the work developing a style of play that completely blindsided people, but you have to anticipate that when they're done being gobsmacked by what you've done they're going to adjust appropriately.

I mean, what do you want them to do? Say, "Oh wow, we never realized Nash could be played like that and didn't take it into account with any of the balancing we did on other characters. I guess we'll just rebalance every other character in the game to account for this new way of playing Nash, instead of making any adjustments to Nash!"

Be realistic.

This doesn't make much sense since, as results show, Nash, no matter how he was played, didn't have the results to back up the nerfs he got. So basically what Capcom is saying is don't be original or unique, don't play the game in a manner in which we did not foresee (which is hugely problematic for a fighter), the result will be to remove those tools. It doesn't matter how good or bad (lol Alex and Fang) the character is, we want the game to be played the way we want it to be played. Bonchan and Yukadon were already better than Infil by the end of S1 and people didn't have any problem fighting Charlie. This method flies right smack in the face of what they have said their philosophy would be in regards to patching.

It's a horrible approach for a fighting game where expression of self and playstyle through character has always been, in my opinion, one of the coolest things about watching high level play.

 

[Dartastic]

Like five people, where's your CFN ID?

I did too, under spoiler quotes. I'll beat your ass if nobody else wants to take you up on it. But like, you've only got 1800 PP? Breh. If that's the case, you realize that you ain't shit, right? Like, I've got over 3000 and I know I still have an absurd amount of improvement to do.

https://pvplive.net/c/over-60-percent-of-sfv-players-stuck-in-bronze

 

[Imperfected]

This doesn't make much sense since, as results show, Nash, no matter how he was played, didn't have the results to back up the nerfs he got. So basically what Capcom is saying is don't be original or unique, don't play the game in a manner in which we did not foresee (which is hugely problematic for a fighter), the result will be to remove those tools.

I don't claim to be an expert on SFV's competitive balancing, but in general terms I would caution against using tournament placement by itself as an objective measure of the impact a character has on the game balance.

You might, for example, have a scenario where there's a subset of characters who have the tools to deal with Nash--Chun-Li, Cammy, etc.--and will generally win the match-up, resulting in Nash placing poorly in tournaments... but Nash still being difficult if not impossible for the rest of the cast to deal with, resulting in him playing "gatekeeper" because people simply can't justify playing a character that can't deal with Nash. As a result, you might end up with no one playing characters that could otherwise deal with the "anti-Nash" characters simply because they would have no way of beating Nash players in the larger scheme of your tournament bracket, leading to a bracket composed entirely of Nash and characters that beat Nash.

(Again: I don't claim to be a SFV S1 balance expert, this is a hypothetical. I do not need you to tell me that I have the match-ups all wrong and it's actually Chun-Li that's the gatekeeper or etc. I'm just pointing out that balance problems in a 1v1 fighting game do not restrict themselves to "Who Wins the Most Tournaments?")

It doesn't matter how good or bad (lol Alex and Fang) the character is, we want the game to be played the way we want it to be played.

There will never be enough FANG nerfs.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

Do you want a balanced experience, or not?

They said flat-out that they did not understand the character could or would be played that way. That implies that they did not--could not--balance around the character being played that way. Therefore once they became aware that the character could be used in that way, they had to completely revisit the balancing of that character.

That's simple logic. I don't really know what you would expect. Yes, it sucks to be the guy that put in the work developing a style of play that completely blindsided people, but you have to anticipate that when they're done being gobsmacked by what you've done they're going to adjust appropriately.

I mean, what do you want them to do? Say, "Oh wow, we never realized Nash could be played like that and didn't take it into account with any of the balancing we did on other characters. I guess we'll just rebalance every other character in the game to account for this new way of playing Nash, instead of making any adjustments to Nash!"

Be realistic.

I don't agree with anything you've said here lol.

First off the fact that they didn't anticipate a character being played that way doesn't imply that they couldn't balance the game around that style. It means they didn't anticipate a character being played that way, which is extremely common in fighting games.

Second your account of events is really off. Nash didn't really need his changes. By the second half of season 1,Infiltration and Nash weren't nearly as dominant. I think from a combination of the scene developing countermeasures and the reduction of input lag resulted in a drop of relevance in the meta for the character.

So it's hard to really look at his changes as being "logical". The game had developed in that balanced out Nash naturally. And even assuming the game hadn't developed past where it had at Evo when Infil was at his peak with the character.....they still went waaaaaaaay overboard. Especially compared in proportion to other "problem" characters like R.Mika and Chun Li

You're going to have to get used to a "playing the patch" mentality in modern competitive games, because the benefits from a design perspective are too great to ignore. The most consistently popular online multiplayer games in the world were built on that fundamental strategy. The constant reinvigoration of the experience through balance changes is what keeps people playing DOTA, LOL, Overwatch, etc. even after the initial novelty has long worn off.

I think fighting games are different. The volume of information required to use individual characters in those games is just incomparable to fighting games. The depth comes from coordination and teamplay and general mechanical skill(Aiming, Last Hitting etc) moreso than character specific properties. You don't really need to play league or overwatch heroes for a year to figure out how they interact with the rest of the cast. They only have four character specific moves, most of which have very linear applications.

In fighting games characters have way more moves with a lot more utility per individual action. So it can take a long time to fully explore these options, especially in how their options clash and interact with the equally large options of all the other characters in the game. As a result, a character that is strong early on in an update can be found out to be generally much weaker than initially thought because of what players collectively discover about how these options play against each other. As an example look at Dhalsim impressions in the first month of SFV compared to Dhalsim impressions last month. Look at the same for Nash lmao.

 

[lucebuce12]

There will never be enough FANG nerfs.

Can't believe I mained SFV's Deejay.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Did anyone talking about how great & balanced this game was ever offer to play me?

I will play you right now. CFN: Apples

I haven't played S2 of SFV yet... but I'm going to weigh my opinion anyway. I liked the overall gameplay in SFV more than vanilla SFIV. There's a lot of stuff throughout SFIV cycle that I didn't like, and completely stopped playing by the time USFIV released. For me, it felt like everyone was playing the characters the same way, with the same tired bread and butter combos, same safe jump-in attack (which lead to either a low short or throw) and the same frame-trap/option select setups. It was super boring, you played one Ken you've played them all, the only difference is that pro's read the game better and executed consistently. It was very rare you played someone with a different style of play because everyone just copied off each other. SFV was a breathe of fresh air compared to what SFIV became, it got rid of most of everything I loathed about SFIV: Option selects, gone. Plinking, nope. Ultra meter (dumb), gtfo! FADC (fuck safe yolo options), negative. Vortex heavy setups, uh-uh. Runaway timeout cheese, yuck. That being said, I'll give S2 a chance this weekend and see if my feelings still hold up.

+1, SF4 was full of dumb stuff that I'm glad I don't have to deal with anymore.

 

[jwillenn]

For me it's like that "Ha Ha, Ha Ha Yeah" song from the Nintendo Switch Teaser. Be yourself and try to have a good time!


SFV is as fun as Street Fighter has ever been to me, and that's awesome! The best part (as always in Fighters for me) is setting goals for your own play, putting your new ideas to the test, and feeling yourself improve a little bit at a time. What are you going to add to your repertoire as a ___(insert character) user this week/month? Then you meet a stronger foe and have to set even greater goals!

 

[qcf x2]

There will never be enough FANG nerfs.

Delete your CFN

 

[sixteen-bit]

shoutouts to the survival logout fix tho

 

[Imperfected]

Delete your CFN

I saw someone playing FANG once. Better tell Capcom so they can do another round of nerfs.

 

[petran79]

I haven't played S2 of SFV yet... but I'm going to weigh my opinion anyway. I liked the overall gameplay in SFV more than vanilla SFIV. There's a lot of stuff throughout SFIV cycle that I didn't like, and completely stopped playing by the time USFIV released. For me, it felt like everyone was playing the characters the same way, with the same tired bread and butter combos, same safe jump-in attack (which lead to either a low short or throw) and the same frame-trap/option select setups. It was super boring, you played one Ken you've played them all, the only difference is that pro's read the game better and executed consistently. It was very rare you played someone with a different style of play because everyone just copied off each other. SFV was a breathe of fresh air compared to what SFIV became, it got rid of most of everything I loathed about SFIV: Option selects, gone. Plinking, nope. Ultra meter (dumb), gtfo! FADC (fuck safe yolo options), negative. Vortex heavy setups, uh-uh. Runaway timeout cheese, yuck. That being said, I'll give S2 a chance this weekend and see if my feelings still hold up.

I dont know. Played against a Cammy player. Her crossups and overheads are even worse than in IV.

 

[Skilletor]

I dont know. Played against a Cammy player. Her crossups and overheads are even worse than in IV.

LOL

What overheads?

She's got one crossup. There's no way to make divekick ambiguous like SF4. No hard knockdown to set that stuff up.

Sounds more like player ignorance than Cammy dominance.

If you said her normals are way better, then, yeah.

 

[Glitter and Gold]

I dont know. Played against a Cammy player. Her crossups and overheads are even worse than in IV.

BRUH

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

I saw someone playing FANG once. Better tell Capcom so they can do another round of nerfs.

His whirly bird connected better tell capcoom of America to make it only work if it hits clean and drops if countered. That way fang might only be used by Taylor swift

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Can't believe I mained SFV's Deejay.

We all make mistakes.

 

[lucebuce12]

I dont know. Played against a Cammy player. Her crossups and overheads are even worse than in IV.

Oh yeah, that pesky overhead!

His whirly bird connected better tell capcoom of America to make it only work if it hits clean and drops if countered. That way fang might only be used by Taylor swift

??

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

 

[qcf x2]

Dang, I wanna see this. Whatever the outcome is it better be uploaded to Youtube.

 

[lucebuce12]

As long as we know the CFN of at least one of the players, we can for sure get a replay going.

This is gonna be good!!

 

[Ucchedavāda]

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

What is your CFN username?

 

[Sayad]

Shit just got real in here!

Live on the East Coast of the US. Since the netcode is ass let's keep the challengers relatively close. All challengers can submit their application via PM. When I go somewhere with internet I'll hit you up & we will arrange to play. I would like arrange that the loser of the set recieves a 1 month NeoGAF ban. Is there a mod that can arrange this? I prefer to play with stakes.

Don't ban bets are allowed, avatar bets are better anyway.

 

[Marvel]

Ooooh juicy. Make it a money match if bans are not allowed or an avatar bet.

I dont know. Played against a Cammy player. Her crossups and overheads are even worse than in IV.

Cammy wishes she had an OH. And pants