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[MightyHedgehog]

I could have sworn that there was a response time comparison chart made some time ago for a number of games and, among them, LBP had a relatively high latency, compared to some other platformers. The 30fps update helps kill the feeling compared to many other big platformers, too.

 

[The M.O.B]

When the best thing about a game is the fan-made custom content and not the actual developer made levels, there is a problem.

Oh and I love how you can grab things in the game, but not ledges...............wtf.

Haven't played lbp2 yet.

 

[Speevy]

After reading some of the responses, I have to wonder why anyone thinks their opinion of "floaty controls" has some effect on sales charts.

This is the equivalent of me saying "Too much Dudebro." in an NPD thread.

 

[CO_Andy]

Miyamoto would take a wizz all over LBP's platform fundamentals, that's just how bad it is.

If anybody wanted a next generation Battletoads, this is your game.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Don't insult the 'Toads, dude.

 

[UrbanRats]

First post nails it as usual.

The premise is great, the tools are awesome, the platforming itself is boring, it just feels off, to the point where I have no interest in playing more than 30 seconds of the game.

Really a shame, because I really wanted to love the games, since everything else is stellar.

This.
Also finding a good designed level was harder than i wanted in LBP1, too many music levels, too many thematic levels (that were ultimately boring to actually play) and too many vehicles levels.
Also, to create a level it takes a lot of time and with the pad is not the greatest thing ever, tbh.

 

[durrrrrrrrrr]

i played LBP1, at first i would call it 'floaty', but when i thought about i think 'sloppy' is a better world. inaccurate jumping, the momentum is annoying, it takes Sackboy too many frames to get off the ground. every single jump in the game is condensed to 'press X, hold R1, hope i manage to grab something and not die'

 

[zoukka]

If anybody wanted a next generation Battletoads, this is your game.

U should be ashamed.

 

[Feindflug]

Because it's a mediocre platformer under all of the nice style stuff.

Exactly this, if the game had the gameplay/controls of SMB it would've been incredible but sadly the platforming is horrible.

Like Killzone 2/3 I can't get how these games got so many 90%+ scores...I guess being Sony exclusives helps a lot because bad floaty controls are usually a big con for both FPS and platforming genres - in these cases of course the input lag and lack of response were "cool", "different" and "demanded skill".

 

[Metalmurphy]

Exactly this, if the game had the gameplay/controls of SMB it would've been incredible but sadly the platforming is horrible.

Like Killzone 2/3 I can't get how these games got so many 90%+ scores...I guess being Sony exclusives helps a lot because bad floaty controls are usually a big con for both FPS and platforming genres - in these cases of course the input lag and lack of response were "cool", "different" and "demanded skill".

Please explain exactly how that "helps"?

 

[Tuck]

The jump is floaty as fuck. It didn't bother me for most of LBP1, but the last few levels were really damn hard, just because of the jump.

Didn't bother with the second because they didn't fix the physics. I probably will get it for Vita though. They were fun enough, but damn that jump was annoying.

 

[BGBW]

I "won" a free Sackboy. Does that count?

 

[Speevy]

LBP 1 and 2 are fantastic games which absolutely pave over anything outside of the PC realm in terms of content.

I like the way LBP controls, but even going with the assumption that they are horrible...

Games with awful controls that sold well:

-Silent Hill
-Resident Evil
-Grand Theft Auto 3
-Tomb Raider (series)


Games with great controls that sold poorly:

-Jet Set Radio Future
-F-Zero GX
-Viewtiful Joe


There are more factors than just controls which will determine how a game sells. Its promotion, appeal (both domestic and worldwide), release date, and platform all have a much greater impact on sales than subjective concepts like "controls" ever could.

 

[Monumental]

"Innovative"
"Unique"
"Groundbreaking"
"Future of Platforming"
"Play, Create, Share"

Things like these will get you over 90% on Metacritic, but they won't help you stay relevant or memorable in the hardcore gaming audience's minds...because at the end of the day, MOST people value the fundamentals of platforming physics more than they do all the extra fluff.

And make no mistake, the "Create" & "Share" parts are fluff to the core gaming experience. Thats why you see just a drop from the first game to the second, and no one even mentions it anymore.

 

[2San]

LBP 1(before all the dlc) is one of the more boring games I've played in my life and I even tried it in co-op. I'm not the creating type though. People made some pretty cool levels, but they didn't excite me or anything. Entirely forgettable game.

 

[SykoTech]

Edit: Sales comparisons-

LBP - 4.5 million+
LBP 2 - 1.5 million
Mario Galaxy - ?
Mario Galaxy 2 - 6.36 million+
Rayman Origins - ~50k

How popular does it have to be for you? Its done extremely well for 2D platformer at full retail price, not to mention a new IP. They're popular with the critics as well, both games are probably over 90 on metacritic or something.

Were you expecting it to dethrone Mario or something?

 

[Cousteau]

feels too much like work.

creating levels can take lots of time.

 

[Speevy]

Things like these will get you over 90% on Metacritic, but they won't help you stay relevant or memorable in the hardcore gaming audience's minds...because at the end of the day, MOST people value the fundamentals of platforming physics more than they do all the extra fluff.
.

The "hardcore gaming community" by its very definition doesn't comprise "most" of the gaming community.

If people were that concerned about responsiveness in controls, why did motion controls become so popular?

 

[Atomski]

I didnt care for the floaty controls. Rather play something like Super Meat Boy or Mario with super tight controls.

 

[Clear]

LBP2 is a huge improvement all round on the original, more people should give it a shot even if they weren't that impressed by its predecessor.

Its a sad indictment of the goldfish like memories of the so-called enthusiast press that this hasn't appeared on any GOTY lists. Not necessarily as a winner, but it undoubtedly is worthy of people's consideration - its quality is simply undeniable.

 

[Incitemaybe]

Super floaty.

This, hated how it felt. It was fun-ish, but not enough to get me coming back.

 

[Indyana]

There's movement after I stop pressing the controls, and a delay when turning the other way. That's what I consider to be floaty, it's what people are complaining in LBP and it's what happens in SMB as well as many other platformers.

That isn't floaty, that's inertia.

 

[neutralgamer02]

How popular does it have to be for you? Its done extremely well for 2D platformer at full retail price, not to mention a new IP. They're popular with the critics as well, both games are probably over 90 on metacritic or something.

Were you expecting it to dethrone Mario or something?

Well, I am just surprised that it isn't in game of the year talks, but from reading this thread I could kind of see why.

Also, I posted those sales after I started the thread so I didn't know it had sold that much.

 

[Snuggles]

Level creation takes some effort and time investment, and even then it's hard to get people to play your levels. Also, many players probably don't even venture outside of the story levels anyways. I love the games but I'm not too shocked that they're not hugely popular.

 

[coopolon]

It's been said 100 times already but I really wanted to love LBP1. The aesthetic was amazing, the level creator idea was great, but the actual gameplay was terrible. It felt really bad platforming, and when you boil it down, the game is still a platformer.

This was actually one of the games that taught me my lesson about paying full price based on reviews. I bought it because of how positive the reviews and enthusiast press was and I like platformers. The online was so messed up in the first couple of weeks (which was conveniently completely ignored in the reviews) and the game itself was so bad that I really felt ripped off. This was the next game I bought after buying GTAIV for full price earlier that year. After getting burned twice I learned my lesson! Enthusiast press reviews are worthless (to me).

 

[Speevy]

Let me answer this topic seriously, and more appropriately.

The reason LBP1/LBP2 aren't more popular has to do with the fact that its a new franchise on an unpopular platform in a niche genre.

Its creative elements, the main appeal of the game, only reach a small portion of gamers. Its humor also seems to the European market more than the US.

THAT is why it hasn't sold whatever you think it should have sold. I can't remember a time when someone said "Hey man, did you check out the new Call of Duty? Those controls are TIGHT!"

 

[Metalmurphy]

That isn't floaty, that's inertia.

Then LBP controls aren't floaty... it's inertia. Specially since it's all physics based to begin with.

Seriously though, what's the difference? What's "floaty" then?

 

[Feindflug]

Please explain exactly how that "helps"?

Hype helps, it sure makes people going blind about certain things (and of course I'm not talking strictly about PS3 exclusives).

How else would you explain that these games got so many high scores/praising reviews even though they have (to put it kindly) not stellar controls in genres that demand fast and responsive inputs when games traditionally are ripped to pieces by most of the gaming media if the controls are remotely different or floaty? hype has to be a factor here - unless you think that great presentation is enough to guarantee such high scores, if yes I think we have different standards of what makes a FPS and a platformer good I guess.

 

[DR2K]

Not a very solid platformer. Just too floaty.

 

[fresquito]

Like most people is pointing: premise was genious, the game felt like a a poor platformer from the PSOne days.

 

[zoukka]

Then LBP controls aren't floaty... it's inertia. Specially since it's all physics based to begin with.

Seriously though, what's the difference? What's "floaty" then?

Floaty means just what it means. The controls feel weightless and so many people find it hard to judge how the jumps end. It didn't help that you really need to press that jump button hard to gain maximum altitude.

 

[Dr. Malik]

I love both games. Sackboy always puts a smile on my face

 

[Kuran]

Floaty jumping is such a turnoff.

 

[perryfarrell]

I tried to like the game, as I usually am a fan of creative stuff (Minecraft etc.) But just couldn't get into it. What is it besides a middling side scroller where you push silly buttons?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Hype helps, it sure makes people going blind about certain things (and of course I'm not talking strictly about PS3 exclusives).

Well, you were. Unless Sony has another console that I don't know about.

How else would you explain that these games got so many high scores/praising reviews even though they have (to put it kindly) not stellar controls in genres that demand fast and responsive inputs when games are ripped to pieces by most of the gaming media if the controls are remotely different or floaty? hype has to be a factor here - unless you think that great presentation is enough to guarantee such high scores, if yes I think we have different standards of what makes a FPS and a platformer good I guess.

Here's a crazy idea: The game is good? If it was just hype then Lair wouldn't have ended up with a 50 metacritic, or heavenly sword with a 70, etc...

Floaty means just what it means. The controls feel weightless and so many people find it hard to judge how the jumps end. It didn't help that you really need to press that jump button hard to gain maximum altitude.

Erm did this change for LBP2 or something? You don't have to press it harder, just longer, same as many other platformers. Mario, Sonic, etc.

And saying "it feels weightless" really explains nothing. What should be different?

 

[SykoTech]

Well, I am just surprised that it isn't in game of the year talks, but from reading this thread I could kind of see why.

Also, I posted those sales after I started the thread so I didn't know it had sold that much.

Really hope you weren't using GAF as some metric of what's popular. Otherwise games like Xenoblade would be GotY. Lol.

Anyways, this was a packed year. Not to mention LBP2 came out the first month of the year. So it's not too surprising LBP2 gets overlooked in favor of the more "hardcore" games.

 

[Speevy]

in genres that demand fast and responsive inputs.

Explain this to me.

What, in LITTLEBIGPLANET, demands fast and responsive inputs? I'd argue that the game's levels, at least those created by Media Molecule, are perfectly tuned to the way the game controls.

 

[Sorc3r3r]

Wrong console.

​

 

[Astery]

Feels like driving a breaking down car in a race. yes, sloppy controls. I know it's physics blah blah blah, but gameplay should come first. Endured it until world 2 then I have never touched the game again, it's too annoying to control and I don't play games to rage over its controls.

 

[fresquito]

Explain this to me.

What, in LITTLEBIGPLANET, demands fast and responsive inputs? I'd argue that the game's levels, at least those created by Media Molecule, are perfectly tuned to the way the game controls.

Which makes it a boring platformer.

 

[zoukka]

Erm did this change for LBP2 or something? You don't have to press it harder, just longer, same as many other platformers. Mario, Sonic, etc.

IIRC you needed to hold the button way longer than in any other platformer, which could factor a lot into the "floaty" argument. But I think the low gravity is the biggest reason.

 

[ElFly]

Weird physics.

Sack boy is kind of creepy.

 

[Tain]

Yeah, nothing in LBP demands decent controls. Which is probably yet another reason as to why I find it so boring. Combine that with the aesthetics and physics-based nature of everything, and I can't really stand it for more than a few minutes at a time.

 

[jman2050]

Explain this to me.

What, in LITTLEBIGPLANET, demands fast and responsive inputs? I'd argue that the game's levels, at least those created by Media Molecule, are perfectly tuned to the way the game controls.

If the controls aren't fun in the first place, then the level design is inconsequential. Get the mechanics right and everything else will fall into plce if you perform your due diligence.

One thing that becomes clear with how LBP turned out is that if you're going to try and implement a novel new idea and focus on bringing out a lot of content, you better make sure you nail the basics. Because in the end, whether they realize it or not, that's what the player will remember most of all.

 

[Speevy]

Which makes it a boring platformer.

Well now we're moving the goal posts.

I have now made several posts in this topic about why this game isn't so popular, and why the controls are concerns only to a select few gamers.

Why is this so hard to understand?

These are your reasons, and I respect them, but they're not the reasons which most people would give.

 

[Hyuga]

Hype helps, it sure makes people going blind about certain things (and of course I'm not talking strictly about PS3 exclusives).

How else would you explain that these games got so many high scores/praising reviews even though they have (to put it kindly) not stellar controls in genres that demand fast and responsive inputs when games traditionally are ripped to pieces by most of the gaming media if the controls are remotely different or floaty? hype has to be a factor here - unless you think that great presentation is enough to guarantee such high scores, if yes I think we have different standards of what makes a FPS and a platformer good I guess.

Dude, .....really?
What about Lair, Heavenly Sword, Haze, MotorStorm: Apocalypse, etc.
Most of their games are simply.... damn good!

 

[fresquito]

If anybody is wondering why the game is a failure as a platformer, should think why Super Meat Boy is a big success. They're like opposite sides.

Well now we're moving the goal posts.

I have now made several posts in this topic about why this game isn't so popular, and why the controls are concerns only to a select few gamers.

Why is this so hard to understand?

These are your reasons, and I respect them, but they're not the reasons which most people would give.

Well, most people is giving the same reason: gameplay sucks. What's so hard to understand? If controls don't demand precisiong, if the levels are constructed so they don't demand precision, why would you be willing to play such a platformer? Can't you see tha game is boring and that's why it isn't so popular? It's a great idea, a fantastic one, but they forgot to fix the basics and that's it. People bit with the first one, they didn't like and the second game suffered it. That's it. Comparing it to SMG is silly, because that's like one of the best games of the generation, if not the best. Besides, Mario is Mario, no other character in videogames is as popular.

 

[Tain]

If anybody is wondering why the game is a failure as a platformer, should think why Super Meat Boy is a big success. They're like opposite sides.

If we're talking about popularity, though, LBP is a larger success. I guess. I think.

man, I should never talk about sales-age shit.

 

[Speevy]

If the controls aren't fun in the first place, then the level design is inconsequential. Get the mechanics right and everything else will fall into plce if you perform your due diligence.

So you're saying that I can set Mario on a single platform with nowhere to jump, and simply because the controls are good, that's enough?

Gameplay mechanics and level design are inseparable from each other. Captain Olimar can't survive the purple coin challenge in Super Mario Galaxy any more than Mario can command an army of Pikmin.

 

[.GqueB.]

I always ask myself why I dont LOVE those games. Everytime I play them I think "why dont I love this? I should love it but I dont". I really have no answer. Its no the floatiness because I got used to that and used to traverse the levels with ease.

I really dont know...