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[ioi]

I agree that its a combination of lots of things, and agree that the features the PSP affords at $250 makes it more desirable. But its clearly the single most important aspect of a console, but not more important than all others combined of course. GC/PS2 comparison is weak at best.



We're just going to have to disagree then.

Indeed... explain why the GC/PS2 comparison is weak then, or even try GC/XB for me?

If, as you say, price is **clearly** the single most important thing then why did XB sell more than GC if say, image, multimedia capabilities, breadth of software, online play, marketing and so forth are far less important?

 

[Striek]

If, as you say, price is **clearly** the single most important thing then why did XB sell more than GC if say, image, multimedia capabilities, breadth of software, online play, marketing and so forth are far less important?

You're being ridiculous. Its more important but not more important than all the other stuff. Try to think without bias for a second. Really, its like you're trying to twist my words to something they've never been, the quoted sounds almost childish.
XB isn't double the price of the GC. Big factor. The PS2/GC, Xbox/GC vs. DS/PSP assumption doesn't compare on that fact alone.

Also, stop trying to compare the DS to leading systems and the PSP to GC, the failure. Out of everything you listed, PSP has done everything better except for breadth of software, and even then, its nowhere near the enormous gap you would make it out to be, or that XB/GC was. If PSP is doing everything better except slightly poorer software (thats IF you don't like 3D console games portable), then why is PSP selling roughly the same in NA? Price.

Anyway, we've had enough of this I think, well I certainly have.

 

[ioi]

You're being ridiculous. Its more important but not more important than all the other stuff. Try to think without bias for a second. Really, its like you're trying to twist my words to something they've never been, the quoted sounds almost childish.
XB isn't double the price of the GC. Big factor. The PS2/GC, Xbox/GC vs. DS/PSP assumption doesn't compare on that fact alone.

Also, stop trying to compare the DS to leading systems and the PSP to GC, the failure. Out of everything you listed, PSP has done everything better except for breadth of software, and even then, its nowhere near the enormous gap you would make it out to be, or that XB/GC was. If PSP is doing everything better except slightly poorer software (thats IF you don't like 3D console games portable), then why is PSP selling roughly the same in NA? Price.

Anyway, we've had enough of this I think, well I certainly have.

And yet you continue to argue the same point over and over :lol

What's my bias?

All I'm saying is that "PSP isn't selling well cause it's a higher price" is lame.

I've never compared GC to XB and considered the price, I've always put them on a level playing field. The price is irrelevant in that comparison and I think it's pretty irrelevant in this one as well.

My problem is that you are arguing everything around price, this is what I picked up on originally.

Why not formulate an entire argument around image or multimedia capabilities instead.

"DS is selling really well despite the fact Nintendo has a kiddy image in the US and the PSP is seen as cool and slick"

"DS is selling really well despite the fact that it has no multimedia capabilites and the PSP has the advantage of being able to play movies and mp3s as well and must surely be tapping into some of the iPOD market"

"DS is selling really well despite the fact it has no analogue stick, a gimmicky touch screen, and a game where you look after and train dogs"

I don't see how I'm being biased, I am trying to consider all angles here, not just throwing my arms up and saying:

Seriously, I don't think anyone would've reasonably assumed that a $250 handheld was going to 'destroy' or even beat a $150 (and now less) market leader offering.

$250 instantly puts it out of the price range of the DS's primary targets

Thats a huge factor

If the PSP was $150, it would outsell the DS hands down

there are many reasons why the DS has struggled so far in the USA, mainly the continued strength of the GBA.

There are also many reasons why the PSP has struggled and I just want you to acknowledge that and not just keep saying "it's because it is $250" cause that is definitely not the main reason, and unless Sony have some aces up their sleeve and create some momentum I can see them struggling in 2006...

 

[Leonsito]

3 millions in one month, that's about 100.000 a day, good luck sony :lol

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm ignoring most of the idiocy of this thread (Sony themselves started it, but there's tons here as well) but did want to respond to one notion-- that the PSP (or even the DS, I guess) would destroy 2D gaming.

As it happens, there are a lot of 2D games on (or coming for) the PSP. Moreso than the PS2, certainly.

 

[elostyle]

I'm ignoring most of the idiocy of this thread (Sony themselves started it, but there's tons here as well) but did want to respond to one notion-- that the PSP (or even the DS, I guess) would destroy 2D gaming.

As it happens, there are a lot of 2D games on (or coming for) the PSP. Moreso than the PS2, certainly.

I'm very happy about that and the 2.5D goodness

 

[jarrod]

Third-party offering have been standard-fare on DS, and really the majority could've been GBA games for all the difference they made. Maybe this will change next year, but I'm sure publishers are looking at the PSP software sales vs. DS software sales and won't be in any hurry to prioritise DS.

Possibly in the US (though there have been some isolated success stories here as well like Spider-Man 2, Asphalt GT or Castlevania).... but what about Japan? How will the Japanese devlopment community allocate resources next year you think?

What? FF7: Crisis Core has been confirmed for a long time now.

He likely meant a "real" Final Fantasy, not some action oriented spinoff.

 

[littlewig]

FF7:CC is vaporware.

 

[Frankfurter]

FF7:CC is vaporware.

Well, if it turns out to be as much 'vaporware' as FF III DS and DQ: Slime MoriMori, I guess Sony won't have any problems with that type of vaporware

 

[donny2112]

FF7:CC is vaporware.

FFVII: Crisis Core is definitely not vaporware (it's part of the FFVII revival with Advent Children (DVD/UMD) and Dirge of Cerberus (PS2)). I do wonder about Square-Enix's mindset with it now, though.

1) SE is a Japanese company.
2) In Japan, PSP software typically tanks (even the good selling stuff probably doesn't live up to sold-through expectations).
3) IIRC, Square shifted FFVII from N64 to PSX after development started.

Do I think it likely that SE will shift FFVII: Crisis Core to NDS from PSP? Absolutely not. The technical limitations of the NDS compared to the PSP are huge compared to the N64 to PSX gap, and there's the disk size issue.

Do I think it's possible that SE will shift FFVII: Crisis Core to the NDS from the PSP? Sure, and it's possible that aliens will introduce themselves on TV tonight.

However despite the remoteness of the possibility, how ironic would it be for FFVII: Crisis Core to be shifted from Sony to Nintendo ten years after the reverse happened with the original FFVII? :lol

 

[DCharlie]

"You really should look at the first 7-8 months of PS2 software. The PSP is surpassing that quite easily. But, if you want to compare that time frame vs a system that was 12 months old entering it's second holiday, you should compare DS software sales vs the PS2 software sales above.

The DS would come up far shorter than the PSP has."

the big thing is (and i assume that this is the US we are talking about) that the US DS is only starting to get the JPN goodness - the DS has had everything yet, and it's _still_ in the lead whereas the PSP has had some absolutely fantastic software and it's not closed the gap.

Now, i know there are a lot of reasons for that (price, timing, not-just-a-games-machine, Nintendo are the established portable brand etc etc), but lets not beat around the bush here. The PSP has a fantastic line up, it's sexy and it's got more than just games going for it. WHY it isn't selling at a much higher rate globally is beyond me.

As touched on , the DS software line up for the US still has a lot of the JPN stuff left to come, and the big guns haven't come out yet (Zelda, Mario, Smash Brothers, Pokemon). Anyways, quite why there is this facination of looking at comparing the trends of the DS and the PSP to the PS2... i'm not quite sure. It's not just this instance, but everyone simply expects history to repeat itself with EVERYTHING.

PSP and DS is a whole new battle - just relax , but both and enjoy the ride. Neither are going to fail.

 

[kaching]

Will be interesting to see how close Sony comes to these declarations at the end of the month. This is still the same claim from October so November sales factor into it. Still, 2.5-3 million in two months would be very impressive. They certainly seem to have the backing of major retailers, what with PSPs featuring prominently in general Best Buy and Circuit City commercials, plus they finally have proper PSP kiosks in those stores and in game stores.

EDIT: Hit Enter too soon...meant to say also that whether they can actually sell through that many the silver lining here would seem to be that they at least seem to think they can ship that many. That they think they can get those kind of yields out of a 90 nm process hopefully bolds well for the PS3 production. I know PS3 components will be produced at separate manufacturing facilities but I would hope there's some experienced carried over.

 

[Izzy]

Regarding Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core (PSP)

According to Nomura, development on the project is progressing without any major problems. However since many staffers are involved in other projects, the development team has not been able to begin working on Crisis Core in full force. The plot however has already been completed. Nomura also confirmed that objects were already moving in-game and currently research was done to figure out battle control schemes, etc. Originally Crisis Core was planned to be less complex than console-based games, but as development progressed, it has moved closer to a console-based game in terms of gameplay.

Square Enix plans a major announcement for next year's Electronic Entertainment Expo which will include Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII

 

[kaching]

Elostyle's point is still a good one for me that PSP software sales will be eating into PS2 and vice versa, how many people will own the same game on both systems? I think a good case in point for that is Madden and SW: Battlefront.

You're talking about games that were inherently multiplatform to begin with, not just on PS2. So before the PSP there was the question of whether to get said game on PS2...or some non-Sony platform (generally speaking, I don't think there are many cases of PSOne versions being produced anymore). With the PSP in the equation, they improve their chances of getting the sale attached to Sony hardware, since they now cover a wider spectrum of gaming lifestyle - both sedentary, play at home and more active play anywhere.

 

[Amused_To_Death]

I don't get this PSP vs. DS war in this thread. Nintendo is an entrenched handheld maker. They literally owned the market forever it seems. Sony has made tremendous strides by having the PSP target older demographics; I would think Sony would be ecstatic to get 25% of the handheld market, up from 0% in years past. Do people really expect Sony to win the handheld market like they did with the consoles?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I'm not saying that in the next gen of handhelds that 2D will be completely gone. But its not going to be as prominent as it is in the current gen, for the reasons Striek posted. Its just the evolution of hardware.

Okay, I know I was being optimistic with 2D. When was it ever my point that the 'new age of hardware' was going to keep 2D healthy? My whole point was that Sony's plan of 'freeing us from the ghetto' is in fact DESTROYING my ability to play the kind of games I like. It forced an early release of Nintendo's 64 bit handheld, trashing a year or two of great 2D GBA games. And the 2D/3D-friendly 64 bit hanheld is going to have a much shorter lifespan if PSP is a success, bringing in our new era of 'luxury apartment handheld gaming,' which just happens to include more limited variety and higher prices.

Anyway, this is all a side issue. This whole tangent stems from me explaining why I have a vested interest in PSP's success. I didn't want to look like a mindless fanboy. It's totally cool if PSP sells well, I just don't want it to become market leader.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

And again, I note-- plenty of 2D games on PSP.

Thanks for reinforcing the stereotype of the "2D only" gamer as being fairly blind to reality, though.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

I don't get this PSP vs. DS war in this thread. Nintendo is an entrenched handheld maker. They literally owned the market forever it seems. Sony has made tremendous strides by having the PSP target older demographics; I would think Sony would be ecstatic to get 25% of the handheld market, up from 0% in years past. Do people really expect Sony to win the handheld market like they did with the consoles?

They did a year ago. Everyone is backpedaling now. Sony's still doing it, somehow.

And again, I note-- plenty of 2D games on PSP.

Thanks for reinforcing the stereotype of the "2D only" gamer as being fairly blind to reality, though.

You're right, PSP is just like DS, maybe even GBA! And Sony is surely more open to signing off on 2D games than Nintendo is! Just ask IGA!

Who's ignoring reality, if you're sitting here telling me that PSP's 2D support is comparable to the typical handheld 2D support I've come to love? What do you think Sony meant by "handheld gaming ghetto"? They meant an end of GBA-style "cheap" 2D games, and the introduction of console-style gaming to portables. Console-style = 3D in 95% of cases. Console-style = higher prices in 100% of cases. As I said, LEAVE MY GHETTO ALONE! I don't care if PSP is a success, so long as it doesn't bite too much into Nintendo sales (indicating a shift in portable tastes, from classic-gameplay to console-mimicking). Like I said, 50/50 market share is fine by me.

Oh, and I'm not a "2D only gamer." I have all four current-gen consoles. I love 3D. But it has its place. Even on handhelds, 3D is sometimes appropriate. Mario Kart is not meant for 2D. Tales is not meant for 2D. Mario Basket 3on3 is not meant for 3D. Some games are meant to be 3D. But a lot of games are meant to be 2D, too, and console-minded devs and manufacturers are going to kill that bracket of gaming. There is no reason why 3D and 2D cannot coexist (see DS). And that means co-existing on even ground, not Sony throwing out a 2D game now and then.

 

[ioi]

Yep, they will both do well. Any gloating / arguments from me are really more in support of the fact the DS is doing so well and not that the PSP isn't.

As both were launched around the same time and both are handhelds from the two biggest videogame companies then there was always going to be a "battle" between the two and I find it quite entertaining.

Both will be fine, both will co-exist but what is wrong with siding with one companies philosophy over anothers (I am and always will be a lover of Nintendo games, and their general philosophy of games over everything else) and being happy that it's doing so well.

 

[Dilbert]

Mario Kart is not meant for 2D. Tales is not meant for 2D. Mario Basket 3on3 is not meant for 3D. Some games are meant to be 3D. But a lot of games are meant to be 2D, too, and console-minded devs and manufacturers are going to kill that bracket of gaming.

I look forward to reading your upcoming screed, An Ontological Theory of Games!

 

[Mook1e]

Some games are meant to be 3D. But a lot of games are meant to be 2D, too, and console-minded devs and manufacturers are going to kill that bracket of gaming. There is no reason why 3D and 2D cannot coexist (see DS). And that means co-existing on even ground, not Sony throwing out a 2D game now and then.

(See also, PSP)

What does Sony have to do with the number of 2D (or 2.5D) games on their system, really?
Do you think they're going to OK Smartbomb or Rengoku and then say no to a Castlevania?
Sony doesn't have to throw out any 2D games. The third party devs can (and have, and will) do all of them.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

AdmiralViscen:

I don't think Sony has any issue with 2D games on PSP, especially considering that they are releasing quite a few themselves, like Lemmings.

Many of the biggest name upcoming PSP games are 2D (Exit, Loco Roco) or at least polygons with 2D gameplay (Megaman). Not to mention the various classics compilations.

Have you even looked at PSP titles beyond the big name western-developed games? Check out some of Matix's lists.

And yes, I am comparing the the DS. Your GBA comment is pure strawman, however.

 

[elostyle]

I welcome the new2/2.5D PSP games and will get one for them down the line. Their increasing occurance might suggest that Sony's original PSP strategy zipped right past not only gamers but also developers.

 

[Mook1e]

I welcome the new2/2.5D PSP games and will get one for them down the line. Their increasing occurance might suggest that Sony's original PSP strategy zipped right past not only gamers but also developers.

Perhaps.
Let's hope gamers reward the brave developers that "went against the grain" and buy the 2D and 2.5D games so that more developers will follow their lead.

 

[elostyle]

Perhaps.
Let's hope gamers reward the brave developers that "went against the grain" and buy the 2D and 2.5D games so that more developers will follow their lead.

Lets hope indeed

 

[ioi]

Lets hope indeed

Wow, are we actually starting to agree on something?

 

[Oblivion]

Glad you asked!
Because the GC sucks in terms of software lineup (comparitively), isn't a strong contender, has a very shitty reputation, and more importantly, the PS2 is affordable.

So..you're saying that the PSP DOES have a strong range of titles, great reputation in the eyes of the media, but because of the price, it hasn't taken off? Unlike the PS2, right? What is the PS2's current price? $170? It's still more expensive than the GC, and just like the PSP, it has a ton of big name games, and other functions as well. So I really don't see your point.

 

[Agent X]

Who's ignoring reality, if you're sitting here telling me that PSP's 2D support is comparable to the typical handheld 2D support I've come to love?

There's a good reason for this, and that is the fact that most major handhelds before the PSP simply weren't capable of high-quality polygon rendering. The PSP has got much more 3D graphical power than any prior handheld (more 2D power, too), and some developers have literally waited years for handheld technology to get to this level, so you've got to accept that at least some of them will want to bring out games that utilize its 3D rendering abilities.

Even so, PSP still has some brilliant 2D games available now, and a lot more coming soon.

What do you think Sony meant by "handheld gaming ghetto"? They meant an end of GBA-style "cheap" 2D games, and the introduction of console-style gaming to portables.

Good! Most GBA games on the market range from bad to putrid to absolute crap. If this means putting an end to the stream of licensed rubbish being cranked out on the cheap just because publishers can get away with paying talentless, bottom-feeding, garage-level developers $2.50 an hour to do so, then I'm all for it.

I don't want chintzy, primitive games with stick-figure graphics and bleepy-bloopy music. I want console-quality games on a handheld!

Tell me something...do you complain about Walkman and iPod, too? Because Walkman and iPod allow you listen to the same type of music that you would otherwise listen to in your living room or bedroom, with the same vocalists and the same instruments, at similar quality to what you would hear at home. They don't sound like little wind-up music boxes plinking out a scaled-down monophonic rendition. I doubt the Walkman or iPod would have as much appeal if they did. In the same way, a lot of people want handheld systems with the presenatation and depth that they've come to appreciate at home.

Console-style = 3D in 95% of cases.

Uh, no.

Console-style = higher prices in 100% of cases.

What's the big deal? If we're getting a comparable level of quality on the handheld, then publishers can go ahead and charge the same price as the TV-based version.

I'm paying for the game, regardless of the system that it's on. I'd rather pay $40-$50 for a really good handheld game that is faithful to its home console counterparts, than pay $20-$30 and get a simplified hack that isn't even 20% of that experience. If I wouldn't pay $20-$30 for that junk on one of the big systems, then why should I bother to pay for that junk on a handheld?

As I said, LEAVE MY GHETTO ALONE!

The ghetto still exists, and it probably always will. You're welcome to have it. It's just that some people prefer to rise above that level.

 

[elostyle]

Good! Most GBA games on the market range from bad to putrid to absolute crap. If this means putting an end to the stream of licensed rubbish being cranked out on the cheap just because publishers can get away with paying talentless, bottom-feeding, garage-level developers $2.50 an hour to do so, then I'm all for it.

I don't want chintzy, primitive games with stick-figure graphics and bleepy-bloopy music. I want console-quality games on a handheld!

Coz there aren't such games on consoles, right.

 

[Oblivion]

They did a year ago. Everyone is backpedaling now. Sony's still doing it, somehow.

Exactly. Why are people pretending like they didn't think the PSP would have killed the DS? Everyone on forums, stores and shit were expecting that to happen.

 

[Ponn]

Exactly. Why are people pretending like they didn't think the PSP would have killed the DS? Everyone on forums, stores and shit were expecting that to happen.

This is an argument I just don't see. I've lurked here for over a year and out of everywhere this was perhaps a little pro PSP. Every other forum I have visited was much more pro DS. Hell the DS/Nintendo fanboy was so high on the P-A boards you couldn't breath and that was before even the DS launched. Everyone I know was putting down the PSP and saying they didn't have a chance in hell against Nintendo in the handheld market.

 

[Ulairi]

What's the big deal? If we're getting a comparable level of quality on the handheld, then publishers can go ahead and charge the same price as the TV-based version.

I'm paying for the game, regardless of the system that it's on. I'd rather pay $40-$50 for a really good handheld game that is faithful to its home console counterparts, than pay $20-$30 and get a simplified hack that isn't even 20% of that experience. If I wouldn't pay $20-$30 for that junk on one of the big systems, then why should I bother to pay for that junk on a handheld?

Handheld games do not sell, on average, as high as console titles. The higher development costs for the PSP means that to make it cost effective, publishers are going to do a lot of ports between the PS2/PSP and few original titles. I think the PSP will fail when the PS3 ships. Will publishers continue to budget the money required for PS2 sized development teams for a platform with a much smaller userbase, and few (on average) sales per title. The PS3 is going to require a lot of resources and I think that the PSP/PS2 is going to suffer.

One of the things Nintendo did right about using N64 level of graphics is that the lower development costs are much easier for a publisher to manage. Also, I'm not sure the mass market (which many handheld players are) are ready to pay $50 a pop for a handheld game.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

This is an argument I just don't see. I've lurked here for over a year and out of everywhere this was perhaps a little pro PSP. Every other forum I have visited was much more pro DS. Hell the DS/Nintendo fanboy was so high on the P-A boards you couldn't breath and that was before even the DS launched. Everyone I know was putting down the PSP and saying they didn't have a chance in hell against Nintendo in the handheld market.

QFA. There was a few months of serious "DS will die" but before the price announcement and after the US release, the repsonse has been very pro-DS and predicting doom for PSP. It's fairly tiresome.

Personally, I never thought PSP would outsell DS, excpet perhaps briefly when it pulled ahead in Japan. I've always thought that cost would keep it from being as widely accepted as Nintendo's handhelds.

 

[Oblivion]

This is an argument I just don't see. I've lurked here for over a year and out of everywhere this was perhaps a little pro PSP. Every other forum I have visited was much more pro DS. Hell the DS/Nintendo fanboy was so high on the P-A boards you couldn't breath and that was before even the DS launched. Everyone I know was putting down the PSP and saying they didn't have a chance in hell against Nintendo in the handheld market.

Weird, I've experienced the exact opposite. I've only been at GAF for a few months, though. However, everywhere else everyone would say "Sony took the console crown from Nintendo, they'll do it again", and "The DS might is only lucky that it has a head start, but then it'll die once the PSP hits". Hell, even those slightly biased towards Nintendo like myself thought the PSP was gonna destroy the DS just based on Sony's name. But whatever.

 

[Oblivion]

QFA. There was a few months of serious "DS will die" but before the price announcement and after the US release, the repsonse has been very pro-DS and predicting doom for PSP. It's fairly tiresome.

I've only seen this "PSP is gonna die" stuff only recently. Specifically when after the Nintendogs/Brain Training incident.

 

[sonycowboy]

QFA. There was a few months of serious "DS will die" but before the price announcement and after the US release, the repsonse has been very pro-DS and predicting doom for PSP. It's fairly tiresome.

Personally, I never thought PSP would outsell DS, excpet perhaps briefly when it pulled ahead in Japan. I've always thought that cost would keep it from being as widely accepted as Nintendo's handhelds.

The DS was absolutely being slaughtered by ALOT of folks at GAF, myself included. Not that I predicted doom for it, but a year ago and maybe even 9 months ago, I did think the PSP would easily outsell it and that the DS was just a "stop gap" system until the GBANext hit that was being used to blunt the PSP. And I honestly believe that the DS has surpassed Nintendo's wildest imagination in Japan, and the PSP has underperformed relative to Sony's expectations.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that ~some Nintendo fans seem to think that the DS is killing the PSP in the US and Europe, which simply isn't true. PSP has higher software sales in both regions, despite later launches.

 

[elostyle]

The DS was absolutely being slaughtered by ALOT of folks at GAF, myself included. Not that I predicted doom for it, but a year ago and maybe even 9 months ago, I did think the PSP would easily outsell it and that the DS was just a "stop gap" system until the GBANext hit that was being used to blunt the PSP. And I honestly believe that the DS has surpassed Nintendo's wildest imagination in Japan, and the PSP has underperformed relative to Sony's expectations.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that ~some Nintendo fans seem to think that the DS is killing the PSP in the US and Europe, which simply isn't true. PSP has higher software sales in both regions, despite later launches.

I thought so too, and you know where I stand.

NoA thought so too, believe me.

 

[mckmas8808]

Handheld games do not sell, on average, as high as console titles. The higher development costs for the PSP means that to make it cost effective, publishers are going to do a lot of ports between the PS2/PSP and few original titles. I think the PSP will fail when the PS3 ships. Will publishers continue to budget the money required for PS2 sized development teams for a platform with a much smaller userbase, and few (on average) sales per title. The PS3 is going to require a lot of resources and I think that the PSP/PS2 is going to suffer.

One of the things Nintendo did right about using N64 level of graphics is that the lower development costs are much easier for a publisher to manage. Also, I'm not sure the mass market (which many handheld players are) are ready to pay $50 a pop for a handheld game.

blah blah blah blah. PSP games are hot. Play Burnout Legends and find out.

 

[BorkBork]

I was another that thought PSP would absolutely trample the DS when its price was first announced. I'm pretty sure that most of the mainstream press did also.

 

[Agent X]

Handheld games do not sell, on average, as high as console titles. The higher development costs for the PSP means that to make it cost effective, publishers are going to do a lot of ports between the PS2/PSP and few original titles. I think the PSP will fail when the PS3 ships. Will publishers continue to budget the money required for PS2 sized development teams for a platform with a much smaller userbase, and few (on average) sales per title. The PS3 is going to require a lot of resources and I think that the PSP/PS2 is going to suffer.

We'll see. One nice advantage that the PSP currently has over the GBA and DS is that when they do port a console game over, it's much easier to reuse the art assets that were developed for the console game on the PSP, than it is to create new ones like they would have to do for a handheld.

One of the things Nintendo did right about using N64 level of graphics is that the lower development costs are much easier for a publisher to manage.

I'm not so sure that this is a good thing. As I said before, it seems like that is a flag being waved around as justification for the DS having inferior hardware. But, it is frequently a hindrance. This is why you see really low-grade adaptations on the DS like you did with Goldeneye: Rogue Agent, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory, Burnout Legends, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, and Peter Jackson's King Kong.

As I said above, there's no way these games could possibly hold up to their console counterparts on the weaker DS hardware, so developers aren't likely to put as much effort to do so. Yet, they still have to invest a good amount of time and money to render new polygon models, compose new chip-based music, construct new simplified levels, redo cinematic scenes as still frames or shortened video clips while optimizing for the lower color palette, etc.

On the PSP, though, there is much "scaling down" being done. They can use similar or even the same polygon models, the same music, the same levels, the same cinematic sequences. Therefore, in many cases, it can cost less for them to port the game to PSP (or develop it simultaneously alongside the console versions) than it would for a developer to port it to DS and still attempt to approach that level of quality.

This also doesn't account for the fact that DS cartridges cost more to manufacture than PSP UMD discs, even though PSP UMDs are vastly more capacious.

There's nothing stopping a PSP developer from doing a game on the same graphical level as the DS. Development costs would be comparable on both systems, and ultimately the final cost to the publisher would be even cheaper for PSP due to its advantage in the cost of the media. But, most PSP owners generally expect more quality from their games.

Also, I'm not sure the mass market (which many handheld players are) are ready to pay $50 a pop for a handheld game.

Good thing that the majority of PSP games are in the $30-$40 range, then.

 

[heavenly]

Nintendo should be grateful with how the DS is selling in the U.S, especially since the GBA is still their bread & butter (sales-wise). The recent few months of surpassing the PSP should only be looked as a bonus from here on out. PSP came out like gangbusters while closing the gap on the DS in just a few short months. Amazing, IMO.

I just knew the DS was D.O.A in Japan and the U.S. But again, Nintendo knows the handheld business better than any of us. They did a remarkable job in not panicking, waiting for the right software to boost sales once again. The irony in that is the software that boosted the sytem didn't appear like a system seller at all, IMO (NIntendogs, Brain Trainging games). They might as well put a wi-fi enabled IM on there, and just watch a new phenomenon take off. What are they waiting for?

In Japan, NDS sales most likey exceeded their most wild, unrealistic expectations. I'm sure they're doing the happy dances now in their cubicles and offices. I mean, sales are really GUINESS BOOK of RECORDS type nasty (300K in 1 week...more than what it sold in a month in the U.S.). First party software too. It's crazy.

I definitely agree that I think Nintendo considered this a stop-gap to curtail some of the PSP's potential sales and market-share. It probably had Nintendo shook. The thing is, the stop-gap turned out to be more than just a experimental project. It turn out to be a phenomenal success...in Japan and Europe atleast. Most likely now, they have to make a NDS2 or designed GBANext in the same mold.

 

[jarrod]

This also doesn't account for the fact that DS cartridges cost more to manufacture than PSP UMD discs, even though PSP UMDs are vastly more capacious.

as I pointed out earlier, the cost difference is basically negligible. UMD does afford a lot more storage though, which is a definite plus... but DS card sizes are comparable to what most PS1/Saturn games weighed in at anyway. Storage mediums for both platforms have their distinct advantages and disadvantages, but cost really isn't one of them and storage capacity is basically proportionate to their capabilities.

 

[Ulairi]

There's nothing stopping a PSP developer from doing a game on the same graphical level as the DS. Development costs would be comparable on both systems, and ultimately the final cost to the publisher would be even cheaper for PSP due to its advantage in the cost of the media. But, most PSP owners generally expect more quality from their games.

Will Sony approve said game?

 

[elostyle]

Will Sony approve said game?

No.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Will Sony approve said game?

What about that Ape Escape port? It's flatout ripped from the PSX version. It even has some framerate issues to boot.

 

[elostyle]

What about that Ape Escape port? It's flatout ripped from the PSX version. It even has some framerate issues to boot.

Isn't that a sony game?

 

[Y2Kev]

How about Death Jr.?

Sony's quality control isn't stopping sucky games from being published, trust me. I have like 20 PSP games.

 

[Tyrone Slothrop]

sony's over-optimism with prospective psp sales figures is getting so annoying

 

[ziran]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13731

you posted the whole thing so i'll edit.
\/

 

[mckmas8808]

sony's over-optimism with prospective psp sales figures is getting so annoying

Your are confused.

However, there has been some confusion about whether Hirai was referring to installed base or shipments of consoles. SCEA generally refers to shipments rather than sell-through figures, but according to news agency Reuters, claimed to have sold three million PSPs by the beginning of November.

That figure is disputed by market information firm NPD, which pegs the sell-through figure for the PlayStation Portable by the end of the month at just 2.5 million units, just behind the Nintendo DS with 2.7 million units.

Speaking to Reuters this week, Sony spokesperson Molly Smith said that "we're mapping to that forecast... We're very comfortable with where we are," but did not clarify what, exactly, the forecast called for.

Given that 4.47 million units had been shipped by the beginning of November, shipping six million by the year-end seems reasonable; but at the other end of the spectrum, if only 2.5 million had sold through by the start of December, doubling the installed base in a month is rather less likely.

However, a corporate spokesperson for Sony in Europe this afternoon confirmed to GamesIndustry.biz that there has been some confusion in the US media leading to incorrect stories regarding the comments made by Hirai and the US sales figures for PSP.

We were referred to the firm's statement on October 21st, when it hit the ten million shipments mark globally, as the most recent official comment on the status of PlayStation Portable in the marketplace.

In the absence of any further information about the situation, the logical assumption is that Hirai was indeed talking about shipments, not sell-through, as is standard Sony policy; and that NPD's figure of 2.5 million sales for the PSP in the USA by the end of November (plus, of course, a number of sales in Canada, bringing that figure to well over 3 million) is the fairest yardstick for the performance of the console in that market at present.

Edited: Damnit!! How in the hell did you know I was going to post this?