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[Beowvlf]

Er... I'd like to see some hard documentation that could back that up. Would you also say it'll take Sony until 2009/2010 or so to get PSP manufacturing costs at near $100?

No, I'd say (late) 2007/2008, but that's because I believe Sony is far more willing and able to make less on each PSP machine sold than Nintendo is on their various handhelds.

 

[marc^o^]

If Nintendo hopes to maintain the margins they have today, they won't be able to release a handheld with superior graphical power than the PSP until 2009/2010 or so.

Yeah, but if Nintendo wanted to say goodbye to Sony in this handheld market, they'd release this GBA2 with GC graphics/touchscreen control/ compatible with the Revolution in 2007. Sacrificing margins can be a lucrative decision in the long run if it allows to sweep the competition (something Sony failed to achieve with the PSP).

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I thought they weren't competing machines. Guess not.

*returns to Wipeout Pure*

 

[jarrod]

WHAT?! The GBA has been the only handheld to be cut short that dramatically, and had it not been for the PSP, I'd be willing to bet Nintendo would have been more than content to let the GBA stay strong until the next decade.

...PSP was likely instrumental in the change of interface focus/experimentation in DS. But if PSP never existed, we'd have likely gotten the exact same chipset at the exact same time in a new "Game Boy 64" or something. 3 year lifecycles are the norm for market leading handhelds at this point, not the exception.

 

[Beowvlf]

It's true that they don't have the room to match price drops but there is still a lot of room between them to begin with. My point was that the technological differences are not going to be as important even when the prices are closer together. I mean, the demographics are much more different than the similar form factor and the fact that both are portable suggests IMO. I said earlier that I think the PSP competes more with the PS2 in reality than the DS but I got severely flamed for that so maybe I'm wrong. Time will tell.

For the record, I don't think a GBA2 similar to the PSP is going to happen now that the DS has proven to be a success. The next nintendo portable might not have 2 screens but it will most definately have a touchscreen. Now that they have carts that are cheap to manufacture, I wouldn't even expect it to have an optical drive.

It's very possible that you are correct, and don't think I'm trying to say it like it's going to be, I'm just posting speculation on possible outcomes. And I have to say I also agree that a GBA2 won't happen, though part of that is me hoping it won't because I think it would be a colossal mistake. The DS needs to be kept alive IMO.

 

[Beowvlf]

Yeah, but if Nintendo wanted to say goodbye to Sony in this handheld market, they'd release this GBA2 with GC graphics/touchscreen control/ compatible with the Revolution in 2007. Sacrificing margins can be a lucrative decision in the long run if it allows to sweep the competition (something Sony failed to achieve with the PSP).

That's an all or nothing plan of attack that Nintendo would be absolutely idiotic to take. To invest that much of their limited capital with little to no other business to keep the company afloat, a failure or even lack of hitting the required margins would send Nintendo to the chopping block right quick. It's a fact plain and simple, Nintendo is not the small time company some believe they are, but they cannot in any way shape or form play around with their margins, especially to that degree.

It would never, ever happen, and thus is a moot point.

 

[Agent X]

Unlike Sony, Nintendo's not the sort of company who'd manufacture basically a $300 handheld Dreamcast in 2004. They'd prefer to wait and manufacture a $100 handheld Dreamcast in 2007.

The difference here is that by mid 2007, there's a chance that Sony's "handheld Dreamcast" could be selling for around $100. More importantly, it will have a vast library of about 300-400 "handheld Dreamcast" games available for it before Nintendo even releases their first "handheld Dreamcast" game.

 

[marc^o^]

And I have to say I also agree that a GBA2 won't happen, though part of that is me hoping it won't because I think it would be a colossal mistake. The DS needs to be kept alive IMO.

DS is a third pillar. DS proved it can live on its own market. Non gamers won't buy a +$150 machine. Gamers will. Gamers would buy a GBA2 and the DS would still sell to girls, children and adults.

 

[Beowvlf]

...PSP was likely instrumental in the change of interface focus/experimentation in DS. But if PSP never existed, we'd have likely gotten the exact same chipset at the exact same time in a new "Game Boy 64" or something. 3 year lifecycles are the norm for market leading handhelds at this point, not the exception.

If you honestly believe the GBC was a 'new' Nintendo handheld, then we're not on the same page, or even in the same discussion. End of story.

 

[jarrod]

No, I'd say (late) 2007/2008, but that's because I believe Sony is far more willing and able to make less on each PSP machine sold than Nintendo is on their various handhelds.

It'd be the exact same margin as DS when it launched if Nintendo could produce a $100 comparable PSP spec handheld in 2007/2008, though DS carried a "premium" $150 launch pricetag. Actually, Nintendo could probably do it for under $200 now realistically using a quick ARM/MBX solution... PSP's chipset is hardly cutting edge these days.

The real costs for PSP are in it's screen and memory, both being components which Sony is forced to outsource. I could see Nintendo opting for a lower quality/sized screen though, especially since it'd allow them to shrink the formfactor favorably.

 

[jarrod]

The difference here is that by mid 2007, there's a chance that Sony's "handheld Dreamcast" could be selling for around $100. More importantly, it will have a vast library of about 300-400 "handheld Dreamcast" games available for it before Nintendo even releases their first "handheld Dreamcast" game.

Sure, a well established base can certainly help and it's clearly what Sony's banking on long term. They'd probably feel a bit better if PSP was selling through more up to the usual PlayStation standard though. Can't overship forever, just ask GameCube.

Let's not forget though, the next Nintendo handheld will likely be backwards compatible with a good amount of handheld games itself... I think Revolution's "Virtual Console" is a good sign of what to expect.

If you honestly believe the GBC was a 'new' Nintendo handheld, then we're not on the same page, or even in the same discussion. End of story.

New chipset, new software, new platform... what exactly wasn't "new" with it?

 

[marc^o^]

That's an all or nothing plan of attack that Nintendo would be absolutely idiotic to take. To invest that much of their limited capital with little to no other business to keep the company afloat, a failure or even lack of hitting the required margins would send Nintendo to the chopping block right quick. It's a fact plain and simple, Nintendo is not the small time company some believe they are, but they cannot in any way shape or form play around with their margins, especially to that degree.

It would never, ever happen, and thus is a moot point.

Flawed post. You seem to have no idea at how rich Nintendo is and at how successful they are with their handheld market/games. The GC technology is not that expensive at this stage and they could easily release such a GBA2 in 2007 without risking the bankruptcy you predict.

 

[Beowvlf]

DS is a third pillar. DS proved it can live on its own market. Non gamers won't buy a +$150 machine. Gamers will. Gamers would buy a GBA2 and the DS would still sell to girls, children and adults.

This is a legitimate point, but I personally do not believe Nintendo can maintain two handheld's at the same time. The GBA is hardly a lasting pillar right now, as it's simply holding on with its few occasional hits due to it's massive userbase.

Convincing third parties to pretty much abandon the PSP (which would be established by then) and support the GBA2, whilst spliting with the DS will be a near impossible task, especially considering third party sales on the PSP are already quite a bit stronger than they are on the DS right now.

 

[jarrod]

I love how a company like Nintendo can't possibly invest their "limited capital" or risk not "staying afloat" while a company like Sony doesn't seem to have any such restrictions.

 

[jarrod]

This is a legitimate point, but I personally do not believe Nintendo can maintain two handheld's at the same time. The GBA is hardly a lasting pillar right now, as it's simply holding on with its few occasional hits due to it's massive userbase.

Yikes! GBA outsold every other platform this November in the world's largest games market... I guess gaming's dead?

Convincing third parties to pretty much abandon the PSP (which would be established by then) and support the GBA2, whilst spliting with the DS will be a near impossible task, especially considering third party sales on the PSP are already quite a bit stronger than they are on the DS right now.

Given the Japanese figures we've got, I doubt it'll take much convincing in that region.

Which again, brings me back to my often ignored point earlier... how well can a PlayStation hope to perform worldwide if it's essentailly an Xbox in terms of software?

 

[elostyle]

And I have to say I also agree that a GBA2 won't happen, though part of that is me hoping it won't because I think it would be a colossal mistake. The DS needs to be kept alive IMO.

Agreed. I don't think the DS will be cut short. I also don't expect the gba to die any time soon.

 

[ioi]

GAF beginning of 2005:

The DS is the next Virtual Boy and will be DOA.
The PSP will sell EVERY single one that is produced and force Nintendo to go out of business.
Nintendo was stupid to appeal to kids with a cheap pricepoint.
Sony was smart to appeal to adults with a more expensive pricepoint.

GAF middle of 2005:

The DS is only selling to the quirky Japanese it won't survive anywhere else.
The PSP owns America and it will outsell the DS on day one in Sonyland and the rest of Europe.
Once WE PSP comes out in Japan the DS is doomed there as well.

GAF after the PSP launches in Europe:

The PSP wasn't expected to outsell the DS right away in Europe but once GTA comes out its OVER for the DS.
Nintendogs isn't having a positive impact on US sales.
Who cares about Japan its the other two markets FTW.
Madden is going to carry the PSP to victory in America.

GAF a couple months ago:

The only reason why the PSP isn't outselling the DS in Europe is because of shortages. Severe shortages.
Nobody thought Madden would be a system seller in America.
GTA PSP will own the DS this holiday season.
Well maybe the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan sales but who's making the most in revenue?

GAF now:

The reason why the PSP isn't selling is because its too expensive. When it gets a price drop watch out though.
Its not fair that the DS is cheaper than the PSP. Nintendo cheated and tricked 13 year old girls into buying the system. That's not fair. Wah wah.
Who would have thought that handhelds are more of a kids market and not adults? Nobody saw that one coming.
Well maybe a few people made some semi bold predictions about the PSP doing well and the DS doing poorly but that was isolated and in the past. We need to talk about the present and future which means more of PSP dominance and more DS failing.
I heard the PSP was still winning in Canada and Korea.
Its inevitable that Christmas and beyond will belong to the PSP and anybody who can't see that is wearing Nintendo dual screened goggles.

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of :lol in 2006.

Hehe, I like it !!

Considering most people thought the PSP would crush DS then I think the fact that the DS is a fair way ahead in most markets, and the only market where it is about neck and neck is the US where the GBA is destroying them both still then I think Nintendo will be MUCH happier than Sony right now.

The fact that the "big games" World Soccer / Pro Evo, Madden, GTA, Need For Speed that traditionally sell multiple millions of copies haven't done all that well on PSP (much smaller userbase sure, but still) is a sign that things aren't looking great for Sony. They haven't broke 500k in any region with a game yet, and GTA: LCS is probably the only one that is close to a million worldwide.

We have done this already- the big million selling PS2 franchises in Japan

Dragon Quest
Final Fantasy
Gran Turismo
Everybody's Golf
Dynasty Warriors
World Soccer

We know DQ and FF won't really be happening in much of a form to shout about, GT is due out although the last version only limped to 1.09m in Japan and the other three consisitent million sellers on PS2 have done around 250-400k on PSP.

In the USA, look at the biggest sellers on PS2:

GTA
Madden
Gran Turismo
Need For Speed

Again, barring GT the other three (which have sold 2m++ in each installment) have struggled to make hardly any impact so far.

I think this is the point that is being made. Sony are being lazy in thinking that multimedia functions + PS2 style games and ports + image will sell PSPs.

Nintendo have gone back to basics and developed software to sell hardware as they always do- Nintendogs being the prime example so far (getting close to 4m sold now so far). Brain Training, Animal Crossing, Wario Ware, Mario 64, Mario Kart, but still with a number of their top games to come yet (Zelda, Smash Bros?, Mario, Pokemon) you have to say that Nintendo must be laughing all the way to the bank at the moment. DS is doing PS2 numbers in the UK, selling more this xmas than any console has ever done before in Japan. As I've said before, it's still a mystery why the DS is struggling comparatively in the USA, but it doesn't really matter anyway as GBA is still #1 console over there.

Sony (or whoever) need desperately to start making some great handheld-aimed games that will sell and drive hardware, or as Jarrod says things are just going to start drying up and in Japan I think this may even start happening next year. I'm amazed PSP has sold as many units as it has to be honest.

The point about PSP sales being consistent, I don't really understand. They have dropped month on month. This isn't a good thing. If it keeps happening then PSP will be out of the market pretty soon. Sure DS dropped more and more quickly, but it also bounced back with new software, something the PSP hasn't done.

 

[ioi]

Nov/04 DS = 479,695
Dec/04 DS = 745,899
Jan/05 DS = 152,091
Feb/05 DS = 143,210
Mar/05 DS = 130,000 PSP = 618,530
Apr/05 DS = 70,000 PSP = 351,000
May/05 DS = 57,000 PSP = 250,000
June/05 DS= 112,000 PSP = 294,000
July/05 DS = 81,000 PSP = 202,000
Aug/05 DS = 102,000 PSP = 167,000
Sept/05 DS = 168,000 PSP = 146,000

Like i said, I never said PSP sales didn't change.
They just didn't drop drastically like DS sales did after launch due to each of their game droughts.

Looking at months from launch:

[b]DS	PSP[/b]
	
480	619
746	351
152	250
140	294
133	202
70	167
57	146
112	132
	
[b]1,890	2,161[/b]

had xmas not come along to save PSP, who knows how much it would have done next month?

 

[cvxfreak]

GAF beginning of 2005:

The DS is the next Virtual Boy and will be DOA.
The PSP will sell EVERY single one that is produced and force Nintendo to go out of business.
Nintendo was stupid to appeal to kids with a cheap pricepoint.
Sony was smart to appeal to adults with a more expensive pricepoint.

GAF middle of 2005:

The DS is only selling to the quirky Japanese it won't survive anywhere else.
The PSP owns America and it will outsell the DS on day one in Sonyland and the rest of Europe.
Once WE PSP comes out in Japan the DS is doomed there as well.

GAF after the PSP launches in Europe:

The PSP wasn't expected to outsell the DS right away in Europe but once GTA comes out its OVER for the DS.
Nintendogs isn't having a positive impact on US sales.
Who cares about Japan its the other two markets FTW.
Madden is going to carry the PSP to victory in America.

GAF a couple months ago:

The only reason why the PSP isn't outselling the DS in Europe is because of shortages. Severe shortages.
Nobody thought Madden would be a system seller in America.
GTA PSP will own the DS this holiday season.
Well maybe the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan sales but who's making the most in revenue?

GAF now:

The reason why the PSP isn't selling is because its too expensive. When it gets a price drop watch out though.
Its not fair that the DS is cheaper than the PSP. Nintendo cheated and tricked 13 year old girls into buying the system. That's not fair. Wah wah.
Who would have thought that handhelds are more of a kids market and not adults? Nobody saw that one coming.
Well maybe a few people made some semi bold predictions about the PSP doing well and the DS doing poorly but that was isolated and in the past. We need to talk about the present and future which means more of PSP dominance and more DS failing.
I heard the PSP was still winning in Canada and Korea.
Its inevitable that Christmas and beyond will belong to the PSP and anybody who can't see that is wearing Nintendo dual screened goggles.

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of :lol in 2006.

So brilliant, so true.

 

[Pimpbaa]

So brilliant, so true.

It is? GAF seems more pro DS to me.

 

[P90]

Post launch decline is natural... that decline continuing into fall however is not. September is when sales should be ramping up again, not continuing even lower. And a barely modest increase the month your AAA kill app hits market isn't too encouraging either. PSP's not doing too horribly, but things aren't exactly "fine" at the moment either.

We'll see after Christmas if the PSP is fine. If the DS sells much more htan the PSP in the western world over Christmas, then I think many developers may consider the PSP a handheld GameCube and jump off that sinking ship.

It is quite interesting to read the Sony damage control posts. They are sooooo similar to Nintendo damage control posts from a couple years ago. The irony.

 

[Dilbert]

OK, Time for a reality check for the reality challenged Nintendo folks. The shits really getting high here.

I have been amazed at the DS' success and somewhat disappointed in the PSP's. I honestly thought there was absolutely no chance that the PSP would stay @ $249, but Sony did it. Plus, the quality of the Nintendo DS games has clearly helped their cause.

That being said, I think it's time to put some DS fans in their place.

1) The PSP is only ~200k behind the DS in the US, despite coming out ~ 4 months later, and despite the DS having over 1.2M units sold in holiday 2004. What does that mean, it means that despite not being available until late March, the PSP has outsold the DS by almost 1M units in the US in 2005.

2) The PSP costs $249, vs the DS @ $149 and then $129. The software costs $49 vs $39 (or $39 vs $29, whichever you prefer). So, if you look at how much money people are willing to spend, over 4 times more money was spent on PSP games and hardware vs DS games and hardware.

3) The DS was dead as a fucking doornail for most of 2005 until Nintendogs / Free Mario 64 / Price Drop / new DS colors hit. Nintendo HAD to drop the price, and Sony hasn't yet (although they should have). I applaud Nintendo for doing the right thing and spurring DS sales, but the truth is they absolutely had to.

4) DS 3rd party sales are absolutely abysmal outside of launch of last year with Spider-Man and Madden. As usual, Nintendo hardware is all about Nintendo software. Sonic Rush, which was supposed to be a relatively big title, didn't make much of an impact.

5) The DS has only slightly outsold the PSP the past several months and yet, DS fans want to crow about a DS victory? During the holidays, at essentially half the price, I would have expected the DS to have done better by a good bit more of a margin.

I understand that the anti-DS hype was pretty crazy around here and that many folks decried that the DS would be absolutely demolished by the PSP. So, I understand the need to get some lumps in and deservedly so, but many of the DS fans are seeing MUCH, MUCH more of a victory than what is there.

And, the folks that are crying about the PSP declining each and every month? DID YOU FUCKING LOOK AT THE DS HITTING 57k, 65k, 82k? Or have you forgotten that? I honestly can't believe that any of you with a straight face could call out PSP HW sales, when the DS nosedived below 100k 6 months after launch and stayed their for quite a while.

To the point of this article, I understand that it's fun to bag on Sony for these ludicrous projections. Which really makes me wonder? WTF are they talking about? They aren't stupid folk. Really, they aren't. So, that begs the question, what were they trying to say / do with the "doubling the userbase" projection? In October, when they made the statement, it was clear as a freaking bell, that even with a price drop to $199, there was little to no hope of selling another 2.5M units in October/November/December in NA.

The PSP has had ALOT of buzz and promotion this holiday season with it being considered one of the "hot" items of the holiday season along with iPods, & the Xbox 360 by a ton of retailers and media and that has been backed up by the various search engines showing it to be insanely high in the rankings. Obviously that hasn't translated into sales, and I think we'll see Sony play it off by giving shipment numbers as usual. I'm just wondering if they felt a need to get out another PR to boost interest because of the resurgence of the DS and the insane hype both the iPods (sold out at most retailers, expected to have sold tens of millions of units) and the 360. It actually smelled of "Don't forget me" PR.

THANK YOU. I need to bookmark this post.

 

[CoolTrick]

5) The DS has only slightly outsold the PSP the past several months and yet, DS fans want to crow about a DS victory?

That's because they know the DS is selling better than the PSP fairly significantly in the UK, and creaming it in Japan.

 

[Hero]

GAF beginning of 2005:

The DS is the next Virtual Boy and will be DOA.
The PSP will sell EVERY single one that is produced and force Nintendo to go out of business.
Nintendo was stupid to appeal to kids with a cheap pricepoint.
Sony was smart to appeal to adults with a more expensive pricepoint.

GAF middle of 2005:

The DS is only selling to the quirky Japanese it won't survive anywhere else.
The PSP owns America and it will outsell the DS on day one in Sonyland and the rest of Europe.
Once WE PSP comes out in Japan the DS is doomed there as well.

GAF after the PSP launches in Europe:

The PSP wasn't expected to outsell the DS right away in Europe but once GTA comes out its OVER for the DS.
Nintendogs isn't having a positive impact on US sales.
Who cares about Japan its the other two markets FTW.
Madden is going to carry the PSP to victory in America.

GAF a couple months ago:

The only reason why the PSP isn't outselling the DS in Europe is because of shortages. Severe shortages.
Nobody thought Madden would be a system seller in America.
GTA PSP will own the DS this holiday season.
Well maybe the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan sales but who's making the most in revenue?

GAF now:

The reason why the PSP isn't selling is because its too expensive. When it gets a price drop watch out though.
Its not fair that the DS is cheaper than the PSP. Nintendo cheated and tricked 13 year old girls into buying the system. That's not fair. Wah wah.
Who would have thought that handhelds are more of a kids market and not adults? Nobody saw that one coming.
Well maybe a few people made some semi bold predictions about the PSP doing well and the DS doing poorly but that was isolated and in the past. We need to talk about the present and future which means more of PSP dominance and more DS failing.
I heard the PSP was still winning in Canada and Korea.
Its inevitable that Christmas and beyond will belong to the PSP and anybody who can't see that is wearing Nintendo dual screened goggles.

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of in 2006.

QFT

]First, we're talking about North American Sales.

Actually, I was talking about sales worldwide since I'm talking about the overall performance of both machines. You just decided to focus on NA since it's the easiest market to defend the PSP in.

Even so, Kirby had little affect on Japanese sales of DS.

Somebody already posted the chart to prove you wrong on this.

DS didn't have a large game drought in Japan. It also didn't have significant sales drops like in North America and Europe.

What? Are you serious? Kirby didn't come out in Japan until APRIL. And DS didn't have significant sales drops? Can you please look at the chart again? I'd like to continue a discussion with you, but if you're going to be ignorant of facts then I can't really say too much.

PSP is selling because of software here, based off the tie-ratio. It'll continue to sell based on the software in the future.

The software ratio here in NA is good for the PSP. Not sure about Europe, but it's terrible in Japan.

We're talking sales here. The games i mentioned will SELL.
Why would I be kidding about Metal Gear Acid? It's the 7th highest selling title on PSP to date in NA.
Ys, Pursuit Force, Field Commander, Loco Roco, and Katamari are all good-great games that will help show that PSP has a varied game library, which will motivate people to buy PSP just as the previous library did.
Untold Legends 2, Daxter, and Tomb Raider will all sell well despite their quality (or lack of)
NFS is the highest selling PSP game and is by far NOT the best quality title.

MGA! being that high up is mostly based on it being a launch title. I can bet with almost full confidence that MGA! 2 will not perform as well.
And have you played all those other games? How do you know they're good-great? Even moreso, just because they're good doesn't mean they will sell themselves or the system. You think people would seriously buy a PSP for Katamari?

Third party developers on the whole are not making money off the DS like Nintendo is. Do you think they'll continue to support it if that trend continues? Particularly western developers.
The PSP isn't like previous portables. This will create growing pains for developers, but they are getting the hang of making titles for the unit.
Developers are seeing plenty of return on their investements already with PSP software. Particularly third party developers.
Saying the handheld wars are over is premature and extremely fanboyish.
Sony has obviously expanded the handheld games market as well and Nintendo.
It can honestly be said that the PSP and DS will easily both survive and flourish in their market(s).

This is probably the strongest point you've made so far. I'm not going to argue and say that third party releases have been pretty bad so far in NA, but then again, we haven't seen many major releases from them. EA is doing fine, and Castlevania is doing very well for Konami. It's only going to pick up here.

How do you know developers are seeing plenty of return on their investments?
Both systems will survive, I didn't say that they wouldn't. But flourish..? Hmm...

 

[yoopoo]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=69383

Razoric was correct!

 

[Pimpbaa]

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=69383

Razoric was correct!

:lol Spot on.

I want it to sell as well. I couldn't possibly make any predictions though. Probably sell good enough for Sony fans to be happy but bad enough as to where Ninfans can still troll with glee. We'll see though.

 

[mckmas8808]

Looking at months from launch:

[b]DS	PSP[/b]
	
480	619
746	351
152	250
140	294
133	202
70	167
57	146
112	132
	
[b]1,890	2,161[/b]

had xmas not come along to save PSP, who knows how much it would have done next month?

OMG are you insane? The DS was launched in xmas. So, can I say had xmas not helped the DS launch the launch would have been weak selling around 70K a month?

 

[Trident]

THANK YOU. I need to bookmark this post.

You should bookmark it. That way you can reread it later and realize he's reframing the argument and disputing no one. When people, or most people, talk about DS performing much better than the PSP, it's on a worldwide scale. America is usually referenced as an anomaly.

 

[Frankfurter]

GAF beginning of 2005:

The DS is the next Virtual Boy and will be DOA.
The PSP will sell EVERY single one that is produced and force Nintendo to go out of business.
Nintendo was stupid to appeal to kids with a cheap pricepoint.
Sony was smart to appeal to adults with a more expensive pricepoint.

GAF middle of 2005:

The DS is only selling to the quirky Japanese it won't survive anywhere else.
The PSP owns America and it will outsell the DS on day one in Sonyland and the rest of Europe.
Once WE PSP comes out in Japan the DS is doomed there as well.

GAF after the PSP launches in Europe:

The PSP wasn't expected to outsell the DS right away in Europe but once GTA comes out its OVER for the DS.
Nintendogs isn't having a positive impact on US sales.
Who cares about Japan its the other two markets FTW.
Madden is going to carry the PSP to victory in America.

GAF a couple months ago:

The only reason why the PSP isn't outselling the DS in Europe is because of shortages. Severe shortages.
Nobody thought Madden would be a system seller in America.
GTA PSP will own the DS this holiday season.
Well maybe the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan sales but who's making the most in revenue?

GAF now:

The reason why the PSP isn't selling is because its too expensive. When it gets a price drop watch out though.
Its not fair that the DS is cheaper than the PSP. Nintendo cheated and tricked 13 year old girls into buying the system. That's not fair. Wah wah.
Who would have thought that handhelds are more of a kids market and not adults? Nobody saw that one coming.
Well maybe a few people made some semi bold predictions about the PSP doing well and the DS doing poorly but that was isolated and in the past. We need to talk about the present and future which means more of PSP dominance and more DS failing.
I heard the PSP was still winning in Canada and Korea.
Its inevitable that Christmas and beyond will belong to the PSP and anybody who can't see that is wearing Nintendo dual screened goggles.

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of :lol in 2006.

QFT!

Btw. have actual users really said all these quotes?

 

[Mook1e]

You're right. Sales have been consistent...consistently going DOWN every month!

Yeah, that was my point. Thank you for agreeing with me.

 

[Oblivion]

GAF beginning of 2005:

The DS is the next Virtual Boy and will be DOA.
The PSP will sell EVERY single one that is produced and force Nintendo to go out of business.
Nintendo was stupid to appeal to kids with a cheap pricepoint.
Sony was smart to appeal to adults with a more expensive pricepoint.

GAF middle of 2005:

The DS is only selling to the quirky Japanese it won't survive anywhere else.
The PSP owns America and it will outsell the DS on day one in Sonyland and the rest of Europe.
Once WE PSP comes out in Japan the DS is doomed there as well.

GAF after the PSP launches in Europe:

The PSP wasn't expected to outsell the DS right away in Europe but once GTA comes out its OVER for the DS.
Nintendogs isn't having a positive impact on US sales.
Who cares about Japan its the other two markets FTW.
Madden is going to carry the PSP to victory in America.

GAF a couple months ago:

The only reason why the PSP isn't outselling the DS in Europe is because of shortages. Severe shortages.
Nobody thought Madden would be a system seller in America.
GTA PSP will own the DS this holiday season.
Well maybe the DS is outselling the PSP in Japan sales but who's making the most in revenue?

GAF now:

The reason why the PSP isn't selling is because its too expensive. When it gets a price drop watch out though.
Its not fair that the DS is cheaper than the PSP. Nintendo cheated and tricked 13 year old girls into buying the system. That's not fair. Wah wah.
Who would have thought that handhelds are more of a kids market and not adults? Nobody saw that one coming.
Well maybe a few people made some semi bold predictions about the PSP doing well and the DS doing poorly but that was isolated and in the past. We need to talk about the present and future which means more of PSP dominance and more DS failing.
I heard the PSP was still winning in Canada and Korea.
Its inevitable that Christmas and beyond will belong to the PSP and anybody who can't see that is wearing Nintendo dual screened goggles.

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of :lol in 2006.

Wanna be best friends?

 

[Mook1e]

QFT


Actually, I was talking about sales worldwide since I'm talking about the overall performance of both machines. You just decided to focus on NA since it's the easiest market to defend the PSP in.

Look at the thread title. We weren't talking about worldwide. It has nothing to do with "defending the PSP" It was the topic of discussion.


Somebody already posted the chart to prove you wrong on this.

That chart doesn't prove anything. The DS sales dropped after Christmas in Japan, but they didn't fall to levels like 50K a month by a long shot

What? Are you serious? Kirby didn't come out in Japan until APRIL. And DS didn't have significant sales drops? Can you please look at the chart again? I'd like to continue a discussion with you, but if you're going to be ignorant of facts then I can't really say too much.

As I said, selling >100,000 a month in Japan at all times isn't a sign of huge sales drops. Also, Japan game sales and system sales were maintained by the titles that came out between the holidays and Kirby. Wario Ware being one (the third highest selling DS game and it's sold orders of magnitude more than Kirby). Who's ignorant?

The software ratio here in NA is good for the PSP. Not sure about Europe, but it's terrible in Japan.

according to the game sales charts in the UK at least, the software ratio is good

We're talking sales here. The games i mentioned will SELL.
Why would I be kidding about Metal Gear Acid? It's the 7th highest selling title on PSP to date in NA.
Ys, Pursuit Force, Field Commander, Loco Roco, and Katamari are all good-great games that will help show that PSP has a varied game library, which will motivate people to buy PSP just as the previous library did.
Untold Legends 2, Daxter, and Tomb Raider will all sell well despite their quality (or lack of)
NFS is the highest selling PSP game and is by far NOT the best quality title.

MGA! being that high up is mostly based on it being a launch title. I can bet with almost full confidence that MGA! 2 will not perform as well.
And have you played all those other games? How do you know they're good-great? Even moreso, just because they're good doesn't mean they will sell themselves or the system. You think people would seriously buy a PSP for Katamari?


This is probably the strongest point you've made so far. I'm not going to argue and say that third party releases have been pretty bad so far in NA, but then again, we haven't seen many major releases from them. EA is doing fine, and Castlevania is doing very well for Konami. It's only going to pick up here.

How do you know developers are seeing plenty of return on their investments?
Both systems will survive, I didn't say that they wouldn't. But flourish..? Hmm...

 

[Hero]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[DCharlie]

What does all this mean?

DS fans and PSP fans are BOTH wankers looking for tiny bits of info for one upmanship.

Both are good machines and both have issues. I'm fucking sick of the "well, i just need the sales to be better than the other side so i can crack out the crow trumpet"

PSP fans did it
DS fans did it

You are BOTH sets of wankers if you are arguing over this.

 

[BlueTsunami]

What does all this mean?

DS fans and PSP fans are BOTH wankers looking for tiny bits of info for one upmanship.

Both are good machines and both have issues. I'm fucking sick of the "well, i just need the sales to be better than the other side so i can crack out the crow trumpet"

PSP fans did it
DS fans did it

You are BOTH sets of wankers if you are arguing over this.

I'm still in awe at the fact that someone made a chart....

 

[elostyle]

I'm still in awe at the fact that someone made a chart....

Why? Because someone is interested in the business side of games? If you are not, what are you doing in a thread about corporate statements?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Why? Because someone is interested in the business side of games?

That and to prove that Kirby really help the DS sell a couple of more units was what brought up the chart in the first place. Its all so pointless and I cringe whenever I see this thread bumped.

what are you doing in a thread about corporate statements?

You mean sanctioned troll fest? I guess these threads are good because it detracts from people killing other threads...so I guess they do have a purpose.

 

[elostyle]

That and to prove that Kirby really help the DS sell a couple of more units was what brought up the chart in the first place. Its all so pointless and I cringe whenever I see this thread bumped.

I took that image from one of the japanese weekly sales threads. Culex updates it weekly. Has nothing to do with Kirby, it was labeled in the chart ever since that week. I just used it show that it obviously moved hardware.

For some of us this discussion is not pointless at all. It's business.

 

[Culex]

I'm still in awe at the fact that someone made a chart....

?

I've been doing my chart for a while for the Media Create threads.

It's nothing special, no need to get your panties in a wad

 

[elostyle]

Thanks for doing it btw, the visual really helps

 

[BlueTsunami]

I just don't understand how all you guys can fret about numbers. Before I hit up GAF as usually as I do know, I was completley ignornant to PSP vs DS numbers or any console vs any other console numbers.

From the message boards i've visited GAF is the only one that seems to suck the fun out of just getting a new device and playing with it and worrying about cold exact numbers in comparison to the competition. I would understand if it was your jobs but I guess I just don't get it.

 

[Culex]

I just don't understand how all you guys can fret about numbers. Before I hit up GAF as usually as I do know, I was completley ignornant to PSP vs DS numbers or any console vs any other console numbers.

From the message boards i've visited GAF is the only one that seems to suck the fun out of just getting a new device and playing with it and worrying about cold exact numbers in comparison to the competition. I would understand if it was your jobs but I guess I just don't get it.

It's a little fun I have on the side. I've always been interested in that Japan has daily/weekly numbers put out. It's also much more interesting to chart the activity of hardware numbers for any given system there; the DS/PSP are the hot items right now.

I'm making these charts because I want to, not for some crazy closet-freak reasons.

 

[elostyle]

It's like watching sport results on the news

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

...PSP was likely instrumental in the change of interface focus/experimentation in DS. But if PSP never existed, we'd have likely gotten the exact same chipset at the exact same time in a new "Game Boy 64" or something. 3 year lifecycles are the norm for market leading handhelds at this point, not the exception.

Ehhh, GBC was a half-baked upgrade that came out way too late. GBA was the universe correcting itself. I disagree that the DS chipset would've been released at the same time without PSP. I tend to think of the DS as the $99 system that didn't get to launch at $99 due to being shoved out the door 1.5 years early.

The difference here is that by mid 2007, there's a chance that Sony's "handheld Dreamcast" could be selling for around $100.

After no price cut in year one, you really think that'll happen?

1) The PSP is only ~200k behind the DS in the US, despite coming out ~ 4 months later, and despite the DS having over 1.2M units sold in holiday 2004. What does that mean, it means that despite not being available until late March, the PSP has outsold the DS by almost 1M units in the US in 2005.

True point. I see the "despite not being available until late March" as an advantage rather than disadvantage, though. Where existing systems are having their usual slow times, PSP was having its launch burst.

From the message boards i've visited GAF is the only one that seems to suck the fun out of just getting a new device and playing with it and worrying about cold exact numbers in comparison to the competition.

We're sucking your gaming fun to fuel our boarding fun. It's a vampirism thing, though, so we can't just stop.

 

[BlueTsunami]

We're sucking your gaming fun to fuel our boarding fun. It's a vampirism thing, though, so we can't just stop.

eeeee mmmm ooooooo

O.O

 

[mckmas8808]

It's like watching sport results on the news

Yeah but sporting news on TV is truthful and direct. Here if the PSP sells 100,000 in one week in Japan people say "PSP am cry :lol "

On this board when people say "the PSP is dead" when it sold one million more units in NA in 2005. Why? What's so fun in that?

 

[Oblivion]

*snip*

GAF in the future:

Who knows but if its half as funny as some of these other quotes then its going to be a lot of :lol in 2006.

Oh, you forgot one more thing.

GAF after the PSP drops to $99 and still doesn't beat the DS:

LOL, handhelds are for elitist 2D asshats anyway.

 

[ioi]

OMG are you insane? The DS was launched in xmas. So, can I say had xmas not helped the DS launch the launch would have been weak selling around 70K a month?

Insane, why??

The point, as has been made by somebody else, is that if anything the fact that PSP released in March was an advantage not a disadvantage as it's big launch carried over the next few months. There is always a big drop-off after xmas and don't get me wrong, the DS falling to 57k less than a year after launch was abysmal. However, the PSP is also showing and obvious downward trend (the 132k number still hasn't been confirmed, I have a feeling it's lower) andthe big games post-launch that were supposed to be providing some momentum into the holidays (Madden, GTA the biggest games in the USA of the last 5 years aside from Pokemon) have done nothing to stop hardware sales falling even further. DS blew it's launch load in Nov / Dec 04 whereas PSP was spread over 4-5 months, and not counting November's 350k and probably 600k for December then would sales have just continued to fall?

 

[Striek]

Insane, why??

The point, as has been made by somebody else, is that if anything the fact that PSP released in March was an advantage not a disadvantage as it's big launch carried over the next few months. There is always a big drop-off after xmas and don't get me wrong, the DS falling to 57k less than a year after launch was abysmal. However, the PSP is also showing and obvious downward trend (the 132k number still hasn't been confirmed, I have a feeling it's lower) andthe big games post-launch that were supposed to be providing some momentum into the holidays (Madden, GTA the biggest games in the USA of the last 5 years aside from Pokemon) have done nothing to stop hardware sales falling even further. DS blew it's launch load in Nov / Dec 04 whereas PSP was spread over 4-5 months, and not counting November's 350k and probably 600k for December then would sales have just continued to fall?

IMO, thats some stupid reasoning. The PSP sales weren't falling as much as they were stabilising. The DS had many big hits, a pricedrop and enticing bundles, and still fails to convincingly outsell the PSP. PSP sales softened due to losing launch momentum primarily - thats not to say compelling software wouldn't have helped it but its certainly hasn't fallen off a cliff like the DS did. You're making very big assumptions on very sketchy evidence. DS has had what, 3-4 months on the upside now after selling like shit and suddenly its flourishing and PSP is in trouble?

 

[AdmiralViscen]

*only read up to page 4*

Everyone seems to be forgetting that GBA exists. It keeps on selling more than DS and PSP combined in this country, unlike the other regions of the world. When these potential GBA buyers and GBA owners look for a new handheld, what are they going to get? The more expensive PSP (even with a price drop), or the one with the familiar name, familiar games, AND backwards compatibility?

Nintendo DS is managing to stay neck and neck with PSP in the US, with one hand tied behind its back. GBA is still gobbling up lots of potential DS sales. When GBA owners enter next gen in droves (hello, Pokemon), the DS is going to see an absolutely enormous surge. If the PSP is down to 150-200 dollars, DS will be 99 dollars, with Pokemon and an enormous line of GBA owners looking to trade up. Oh, and it's also got a new Mario, Zelda, a few Final Fantasies, Metroid, etc. etc. etc. The DS has far from blown its wad. If anything, it's still in the foreplay stage.

And as DS extends its lead over PSP in the East, I think you're going to see Japanese support of the PSP decline. Higher production costs for a lower userbase with a worse attach rate? Japanase devs are going to look at PSP the way they look at XBox: that high-tech thing the Americans like to play.

Personally, I don't care if PSP dies. I just want it to stay the underdog, because if PSP overtakes DS in marketshare, it will mean the end of the 2D gaming bliss that has been kept alive by GBA. DS has a great balance of 2D and 3D gameplay, and I'm perfectly happy staying in the 30 dollar, old school, "gaming ghetto."