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[Risk Breaker]

Hence why these PS4K/Neo threads seem to be filled with so much negativity. They don't want to spend more money.

The thing is, they don't have to. I wonder when will the bans start for people that come into Neo/Scorpio threads to say "well I don't want it/this sucks/please don't buy this/I'll upgrade my PC instead/I'm going to buy NX/angry random words to express you're not interested !"

 

[Cheeseman Battitude]

I've seen more people here unwilling to purchase another box than buying into the idea of a more powerful system for better performing games.

Hence why these PS4K/Neo threads seem to be filled with so much negativity. They don't want to spend more money.

I mean, it makes sense since usually the average console gamer will go for the cheaper product. A big reason why PS4 was welcomed with open arms when it launched.

Then will Neo and Scorpio necessarily be a success? I don't particularly need or want want to buy either of them, so they dont get my money. And I'm sure I'm not the only person like that. They'll have to stop making the originals pretty quick to make sure people don't buy the cheaper one.

Then what happens if your PS4 goes faulty? Do you get a Neo as a replacement if there are no originals left?

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

So despite the fact that Sony did state that this system will most likely not release this year and considering that the PS4 was revealed in 2013...where are people getting the Apple yearly comparisons from?

Where is this horrendous math coming from and why are people treating this as the smartphone cycle argument when this is not a yearly upgrade but definitely a mid generation (4-5 year) upgrade?

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

It's starting to sound a lot like Intel's tick-tock model.

I can't see this coming to be right now (regular iteration). Even Intel are switching their model to a process-architecture-optimization because of the complexity of going to the next node. Samsung are a fair way behind and GloFlo are just getting started at 14nm.

For another Neo in late 2019 it would probably require 7nm, 2X+ performance and all to come in at a ~150W power budget. Right now I'm thinking this a one-off due to circumstance and only if the same occurs in 3-4 years will they do the same again.

Whatever happens though it will mean PS5 being the new architecture system coming in at 'only' a 2-3X bump over Neo. Can't wait for the complaints then...

 

[mejin]

Then will Neo and Scorpio necessarily be a success? I don't particularly need or want want to buy either of them, so they dont get my money. And I'm sure I'm not the only person like that. They'll have to stop making the originals pretty quick to make sure people don't buy the cheaper one.

Then what happens if your PS4 goes faulty? Do you get a Neo as a replacement if there are no originals left?

I'm not convinced MS is doing the same thing Sony wants to do. I think Scorpio will eliminate XB1 for good, there is no plan of co-existence like PS4 and PS4 Neo.

 

[potatohead]

So despite the fact that Sony did state that this system will most likely not release this year and considering that the PS4 was revealed in 2013...where are people getting the Apple yearly comparisons from?

Where is this horrendous math coming from and why are people treating this as the smartphone cycle argument when this is not a yearly upgrade but definitely a mid generation (4-5 year) upgrade?

It's easier to make drive-by criticisms only addressing semantics rather than the actual strategy which is not literally a smartphone cycle.

 

[Clear]

I mean, it makes sense since usually the average console gamer will go for the cheaper product. A big reason why PS4 was welcomed with open arms when it launched.

Exactly. Power may be a factor, but is it a more compelling point than cost?

There are many contributing factors towards desirability, so assuming anything when there is no evidence other than spec-sheets is highly premature.

One major element for example is how the PSVR launch goes; if somebody stumps up the cash this year for such a relatively costly accessory, its a pretty strong statement of commitment to the blue brand. It also suggests that they are the sort of consumer who isn't going to flinch at the prospect of buying a better base-unit due to cost down the line.

 

[Curufinwe]

Then will Neo and Scorpio necessarily be a success? I don't particularly need or want want to buy either of them, so they dont get my money. And I'm sure I'm not the only person like that. They'll have to stop making the originals pretty quick to make sure people don't buy the cheaper one.

Then what happens if your PS4 goes faulty? Do you get a Neo as a replacement if there are no originals left?

What if they run out of PS4s? is possibly the silliest concern I've seen so far.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I didn't say shit about an exodus. What I'm saying is that a console trying to compete with PC in power is dumb, and that attempting to do so would result more in people going to PC (notice I didn't say every single PS4 owner) than people deciding that upgraded consoles are a better value than PC.

It is not 'attempting to compete with PC in power', you seem to be projecting.

It is there as a 4K media/power option in the console arena.

Yeah the convenience is nice, but I don't think that's enough for a power user to go with an upgraded console over a PC.

Who are these people you are mentioning?

You keep saying his PC jargon, then when I call it out about there will not being enough to even matter who will go PC over this, you then back pedal and say that is not what you are saying...

Then what the hell are you saying, because you keep mentioning this whole PC thing, but saying 'that's not it' when countered?

It is becoming redundant and seems to be some projecting.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Not going to happen.

It would be a new gen by then.

They have to get rid of the legacy platforms at some point. 3rd parties and maybe their competitors will force Sony to do so at some point. Not to forget, I was refering to "mandatory" PS4 support. Devs could still offer games which run on PS4, PS4 Neo and it's successor if they wanted to.

 

[Kyoufu]

Then will Neo and Scorpio necessarily be a success?

Define success?

I feel that PS4K's main appeal should be to 4K TV owners who are desperate for 4K video sources to plug into. 4K Blu Ray players are extremely expensive so if PS4K were to include one then it'd be very attractive for anyone with the latest TV. Last year, shipments of UHD TVs were around 32 million worldwide and it'll continue to grow as the years go by.

PS4K and Scorpio must be positioned to attract 4K adopters as their primary demographic, IMO.

 

[thetester77]

Define success?

I feel that PS4K's main appeal should be to 4K TV owners who are desperate for 4K video sources to plug into. 4K Blu Ray players are extremely expensive so if PS4K were to include one then it'd be very attractive for anyone with the latest TV. Last year, shipments of UHD TVs were around 32 million worldwide and it'll continue to grow as the years go by.

PS4K and Scorpio must be positioned to attract 4K adopters as their primary demographic, IMO.

indeed, as a 4k tv owner that's what attracts me most - if the PS4K can run 4K HDR Blu ray I'm in..... the bump in ps4 graphics will be a nice extra for me.

alone the graphical jump wouldn't be enough for me to splash on another ps4 unless significant, the 4k will drive me

 

[Obscuritas]

I'm not convinced MS is doing the same thing Sony wants to do. I think Scorpio will eliminate XB1 for good, there is no plan of co-existence like PS4 and PS4 Neo.

On the contrary there would be one, they'll release a slim sku in the next months and sure as hell they can't let it die anytime soon.

 

[DeepEnigma]

indeed, as a 4k tv owner that's what attracts me most - if the PS4K can run 4K HDR Blu ray I'm in..... the bump in ps4 graphics will be a nice extra for me.

alone the graphical jump wouldn't be enough for me to splash on another ps4 unless significant, the 4k will drive me

Exactly how I feel.

I'm sure Sony is fine with people buying either one.

That is the whole point, really, lol. They don't care which one, since it is an investment in their ecosystem.

 

[Servbot24]

Then will Neo and Scorpio necessarily be a success? I don't particularly need or want want to buy either of them, so they dont get my money. And I'm sure I'm not the only person like that. They'll have to stop making the originals pretty quick to make sure people don't buy the cheaper

I'm sure Sony is fine with people buying either one.

 

[le-seb]

Any thoughts on that from you guys? Did I get something wrong?

I doubt the iterative model would be compatible with extending the console power, especially when it comes to available RAM and number of CPU cores.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Define success?

I feel that PS4K's main appeal should be to 4K TV owners who are desperate for 4K video sources to plug into. 4K Blu Ray players are extremely expensive so if PS4K were to include one then it'd be very attractive for anyone with the latest TV. Last year, shipments of UHD TVs were around 32 million worldwide and it'll continue to grow as the years go by.

PS4K and Scorpio must be positioned to attract 4K adopters as their primary demographic, IMO.

Exactly. They have 4K TVs to sell, and Blu-Ray royalties to collect. Easiest explanation of why Neo exists.

 

[Alej]

Old X1 Machinas attempted to control the living bloom, only to discover some PS4s are revolting, just according to keikaku, but then, band of Morpheus PS4s and Agent Smith PC happened.

Band of Morpheus PS4s destroyed X1 Machinas, allowing Agent Smith PC to take control of all Machinas. Old and ancient Deus Ex Machinas launch new version of them, labelled Scorpios to hunt and destroy PS4s.

But PS4 new kid on the block, called Neo, can see through the code to the metal. So, beats everyone of them and lures Agent Smith PC who always wanted to absorb dat console crowd into himself.
What will happen next?

 

[Captain Tuttle]

This whole thing is fascinating. I'll probably not get a Neo and go with Scorpio as I'm deep into MS's ecosystem but this will shake up the industry and will be great to watch and to ride along.

Great time for the hobby

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So despite the fact that Sony did state that this system will most likely not release this year and considering that the PS4 was revealed in 2013...where are people getting the Apple yearly comparisons from?

Where is this horrendous math coming from and why are people treating this as the smartphone cycle argument when this is not a yearly upgrade but definitely a mid generation (4-5 year) upgrade?

Sony never said this.

 

[The Artisan]

Says who?

practically everybody...you'd be the first one to tell me they're different platforms

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sony never said this.

This is where the false narratives start to spread across the web, lol.

 

[toilet]

This is where the false narratives start to spread across the web, lol.

Is it supposed to release this year? If so I am definitely in.

 

[maxcriden]

I'm not convinced MS is doing the same thing Sony wants to do. I think Scorpio will eliminate XB1 for good, there is no plan of co-existence like PS4 and PS4 Neo.

Would you expect it to offer full XB1 BC then?

 

[Epcott]

I didn't read anything about "smartphone cycle". What was the quote?


If true, I'll be joining the master race while console/smartphone 2.0 market burns itself out.

 

[geordiemp]

The thing is, they don't have to. I wonder when will the bans start for people that come into Neo/Scorpio threads to say "well I don't want it/this sucks/please don't buy this/I'll upgrade my PC instead/I'm going to buy NX/angry random words to express you're not interested !"

The funny thing is, they cannot bring themselves to say the truth, which is they are jealous of someone having a better console - but they cant say that as it sounds like a 12 year old child.

So we get developer concern, price concern, optimisation concern, future of console concern, every year a new console concern or a plea to how console gaming saved their existence and the console world will come to an end as we know it..

So next comes the emotion and toys out of the pram, I am done with gaming, screw Sony, I will build a PC where I can be the bottom of the pile. Think I have read enough of them now, not seen 1 sensible arguments saying why iteration is bad.

Sony has to weigh up against potentially losing customers who do spend allot of money going back to Microsoft if Sony are not offering a high end console option. The shift 360 to Ps4 was real in UK and uSA.....could easily be reversed.

I dont thing Sony will care about iterative console negativity as everybody is doing it, its just empty warbling, and PC gaming is iterative every month lol, someone will always have an advantage over you in any game on PC.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Exactly. They have 4K TVs to sell, and Blu-Ray royalties to collect. Easiest explanation of why Neo exists.

If they wanted to just do this, they could have made a PS4 with those capabilities and replaced the existing one. It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

 

[mejin]

Would you expect it to offer full XB1 BC then?

Yep. That's what I expect. XB1 was not made for this change in focus from Microsoft, Scorpio will be. So, that's why I believe XB1 will be replaced by Scorpio.

If they wanted to just do this, they could have made a PS4 with those capabilities and replaced the existing one. It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

Playstation is a worldwide brand. Launched in more than a hundred countries and most of them won't have 4K at reasonable price so soon. For example, Brazil.

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Sony never said this.

My bad, but was there any hint to it releasing this year? I....don't think so, and on top of that, there isn't even final specs on this thing. So imo, it's safe to say that this clearly isn't a system that is ready for prime time today the way some people are jumping to conclusions. The idea that people are treating this system identical to the same release structure of smartphones is ridiculous

 

[CosmicQueso]

If they wanted to just do this, they could have made a PS4 with those capabilities and replaced the existing one. It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

Why would it have a quicker adoption rate?

By enhancing the gaming side, they not only get 4K new adopters but existing owners to upgrade.

And for those territories without good 4K adoption, they can maintain the current PS4 model and lower the price to gain adoption without the added costs of the UHD drive.

Only thing that would prevent that is the Neo coming out with a higher price than where the PS4 is now.

 

[Fafalada]

It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

Except it wouldn't be cheaper for them due to how transition to new node happened this time
And exactly what are we speculating on adoption rates with? Non-existing price or non-existing marketing strategy?

 

[ironcreed]

I didn't read anything about "smartphone cycle". What was the quote?


If true, I'll be joining the master race while console/smartphone 2.0 market burns itself out.

"The consumer is attuned to a different cadence of innovation in technology thanks in great part for the upgrades cadence on mobile phones or PCs."

Yeah, I can't say that I have been wanting to buy new consoles as frequently as people do phones. Hell, I don't even upgrade my phone like that. I guess I'll go with every other console from here on out, lol. If I even stick around much longer past the next cycle.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Is it supposed to release this year? If so I am definitely in.

Do not know, they never said here nor there, yet,

However, the leaks, and documentation point to this Holiday season.

 

[Kyoufu]

If they wanted to just do this, they could have made a PS4 with those capabilities and replaced the existing one. It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

That'd involve increasing the price of the standard model instead of giving consumers a choice. Basically it'd be pulling a Microsoft with Xbox One + Kinect in 2013. Bad PR all day.

 

[RedRooster]

I thought those rumors indicated it'd be revealed at TGS? We knew there was a high chance it wouldn't be at E3, yet everyone seems disappointed.

 

[Neuromancer]

When did Sony say Neo wasn't coming out this year?

 

[RedRooster]

.nevermind, I can't read

 

[toilet]

Do not know, they never said here nor there, yet,

However, the leaks, and documentation point to this Holiday season.

I hope so! Thanks.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

When did Sony say Neo wasn't coming out this year?

They didnt.

 

[DieH@rd]

When did Sony say Neo wasn't coming out this year?

They did not. They just confirmed its existence, and that it will not be unveiled at E3.

Since it is just a upgrade to a PS4, I expect unveil mere weeks before it enter sales.

 

[The Artisan]

That is where I disconnect. No fucks given about games being inferior to PC versions, but tiers on within the same brand is a life altering event. It's like consoles are looked at some form of socialism. "We're all the same!"

console platforms are fundamentally separate from the PC platform and will always be inferior - I've come to accept that. In order to gain the superiority it means having the time, money and knowledge for it. I've come to accept that consoles will be inferior to the PC platform and that in order get the superiority, it takes that dedication - of which I never wanted any part of because for every generation you're set once you buy the console. at least that's the way it was

 

[vpance]

If they wanted to just do this, they could have made a PS4 with those capabilities and replaced the existing one. It would be cheaper and have a quicker adoption rate.

They will, it's the PS4 slim.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Why would it have a quicker adoption rate?

By enhancing the gaming side, they not only get 4K new adopters but existing owners to upgrade.

Because naturally basic economics tell you that something is likely to sell faster at a lower price than a higher price. So selling simply a 4K UHD Blu Ray player for less than what the Neo would cost would have a quicker adoption rate if their primary goal is to sell movies and TVs.

Except it wouldn't be cheaper for them due to how transition to new node happened this time
And exactly what are we speculating on adoption rates with? Non-existing price or non-existing marketing strategy?

How would it not be cheaper? The Neo is going to include an upgraded CPU and GPU which clearly has to add more cost than not.

That'd involve increasing the price of the standard model instead of giving consumers a choice. Basically it'd be pulling a Microsoft with Xbox One + Kinect in 2013. Bad PR all day.

No it wouldn't involve increasing the price. We're already talking about lowering the price of the standard model to fit in the Neo. There's no reason adding in simply the UHD blu ray capabilities would have to increase the current price.

The whole point is their primary goal is not 4K UHD Blu Ray adoption rate. You don't need the increased CPU and GPU to do so. It may be one goal, but they clearly have something bigger in mind than just UHD Blu Ray.

 

[On Demand]

Are bans really being asked for people who don't like this? The one sided arguments continues i see.

The funny thing is, they cannot bring themselves to say the truth, which is they are jealous of someone having a better console - but they cant say that as it sounds like a 12 year old child.

Nice summation.



Not.

So we get developer concern, price concern, optimisation concern, future of console concern, every year a new console concern or a plea to how console gaming saved their existence and the console world will come to an end as we know it.

So those aren't real concerns and are bullshit? lol.

Keep going with the insults to those who aren't readily accepting this. Especially that one certain poster. I'm enjoying the read.

 

[Clear]

Sony has to weigh up against potentially losing customers who do spend allot of money going back to Microsoft if Sony are not offering a high end console option. The shift 360 to Ps4 was real in UK and uSA.....could easily be reversed.

Easily, not really.

360 got popular on the back of a substantial price advantage, 12 months head-start on the market, combined with XBL being the new hotness and synergising remarkably well with the type of competitive online play spear-headed by franchises like Gears and Halo.

Being underpowered sure didn't hurt Nintendo at that time either...Wii stomped a mudhole into both Sony & MS machines for its first few years despite being SD-only.

Its a set of circumstances that is unlikely to ever repeat itself, especially as PS4 is still going strong at this point.

 

[Dabanton]

Well I hope it's coming this year. I want to get a PS4 but no way do I want to get a OG PS4, if a much better version of the machine is on the way.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Because naturally basic economics tell you that something is likely to sell faster at a lower price than a higher price. So selling simply a 4K UHD Blu Ray player for less than what the Neo would cost would have a quicker adoption rate if their primary goal is to sell movies and TVs.

As we have no idea of what the price or market strategy is for this, I don't see how you can come up with a conclusion that states Sony business people lack "basic economics".

 

[Hcoregamer00]

I suspected as much, the fast evolving mobile industry is being seen as a threat, it has already killed a big segment of the industry (portable consoles), and it can do heavy damage to the home consoles. I suspect that outside of the wildly successful PS4 we are seeing effects of it, even in people buying less games and using more gaming and non gaming mobile time.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Yep. That's what I expect. XB1 was not made for this change in focus from Microsoft, Scorpio will be. So, that's why I believe XB1 will be replaced by Scorpio.
.

I agree. I see Scorpio as a new "gen" (as they'll go iterative from their on) for MS, ending the X1 after 4 years like the original Xbox which also sold poorly. Full backward compatibility with X1 and 360 games, but Scorpio games will be exclusive.

I'm more interested in that than Neo personally as it will most likely be a bigger jump forward and I'm fine with PS4 power while the X1 has issues with some games. Which I hate as I vastly prefer the Elite controller to the DS4.

 

[geordiemp]

Are bans really being asked for people who don't like this? The one sided arguments continues i see.

So those aren't real concerns and are bullshit? lol.

Keep going with the insults to those who aren't readily accepting this. Especially that one certain poster. I'm enjoying the read.

Bans ? Me / others....I dont understand..not to worry..

My post does not name anyone thanks.

I have stated why Neo is a good idea for those that want it, a Neo mode might allow me to play Witcher 3 at 60 FPS. Why do you want to deny me playing this game at 60 FPS on console if I wish to pay up ? (CPDR allowing of course). Nobody will ever be able to answer this that is for sure.

Witcher 3 will still run the same on Ps4.