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Sony Permanently Banning PS4 Console

G

GVA1987

Member
Hi guys. First ever thread so go easy on me. I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Sooo I bought a preowned PS4 for my stepdad for some casual gaming and his limited finances forced my hand to get it preowned. This was ourchased from EB Games in Australia and lucky for me it meant I could swap it out after the following happened.

Booted it up fine and downloaded the latest update to allow it to connect. Try to download my profile and I get an error stating that there is a temporary or permanent ban on the profile or console.

Try searching the error code (WS-37338-4) and come up with results of many people running into this problem where the prior owner owed money so Sony bricked the console. Contact Sony who advise too bad nothing can be done. Even offered receipts to show I'm the new owner and they couldn't care less (in the most polite way possible).

So back to EB who swapped it out and the 'new' one works fine. My problem here is why the hell would Sony brick a console just because an owner did the wrong thing. Ban the profile sure, whatever, but this is a tad extreme and completely the opposite of the goodwill of being able to share games etc they preached upon reveal.

TLDR: Why brick a console just to get back at an owner and then not allow it to be unlocked in a market that would see another consumer unable to use a perfectly good machine.
 
I imagine Sony is trying to make it more difficult for a banned person to just create another account and repeat whatever got them banned in the first place. They consider this more important than the secondary market for consoles, since that doesn't make them very much money.
 
Oh wow, I didn't know they did that for like... chargebacks or whatever.

I thought they would only do that for people "tinkering" or modding their console.

I'm glad you were able to get a working one though. That is weird that now, that particular console is forever "broken." I guess it could still be sold, but only if it were fully disclosed that it's banned from getting on PSN and at a steep discount.
 
why brick a console? so that the person who might have made $1000 in fraudulent purchases can't use it. why not unlock it? so that the person who committed fraud can't then lie to get it unlocked. sony doesn't lose anything. eb games should have checked the system.
 
Really no reason for them to care who the new owner is.

Ask versizon if they care when you buy a cell phone that was tied to a past due account. It's done so that the previous owner can't profit off it.

It's the responsibility of the secondhand buyer/seller or store to make sure that the console isn't banned. Wouldn't buy from that shop again.
 
Quocia said:
Yeah, they don't make any money out of pre owned games & systems so..
Click to expand...

People who buy preowned systems do buy new games. That benefits Sony.
Up until now most game consoles were heavily subsidized, so a console swapping hands for someone who would use it to buy games and all would be way better for them.

Their approach on this is really weird.
 
Quocia said:
Yeah, they don't make any money out of pre owned games & systems so..
Click to expand...

Well, they can potentially make some money off of a pre-owned console if the new owner buys DLC or digital games, but that's not a sure thing. I imagine at this point they've got the PS4's bill of materials down to the point where they're guaranteed to make a double digit number of dollars on each console sold.
 
Honestly doesn't make sense even in a pre-owned sense.

Sony's barely over breaking even on the PS4 anyway and a pre-owned console owner would be purchasing software on the Sony ecosystem right?

Unless I'm wrong and they are earning a high rate from new consoles.
 
Sure I get where they are coming from, but what a waste of a console to brick it on purpose. Probably best you did buy it from EB Games (only time you'll hear me say that).
 
etta said:
So? It's still a shitty thing to do. They were supposed to support the second hand market.
Click to expand...

uh...they didn't brick that console because it was sold second hand. this has nothing to do with whether or not they're supporting the second hand market, which they are
 
Alucrid said:
why brick a console? so that the person who might have made $1000 in fraudulent purchases can't use it. why not unlock it? so that the person who committed fraud can't then lie to get it unlocked. sony doesn't lose anything. eb games should have checked the system.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is my issue here. I get that EB probably wouldn't have tested it for that as everything ran fine until I tried a profile on it. It would be hard to find that when they refurbish the system I guess.

Just annoys me that they wouldn't even unlock it for us to use even with proof of purchase. Hell I bought 10 games with the console, half of which were new, and surely the long term use would mean more to Sony than the tiny amount they might have made on a new console purchase. Just so frustrating and not a great welcome for a new console owner in his 40s who doesn't quite get gaming yet as it is haha.
 
Sony may not make any money from secind hand console, but they don't make much money off selling consoles itself anyway, most money comes from selling (new) games. So someone buying a used console is a good opportunity to earn a lot of money from the person.
 
GVA1987 said:
Yeah this is my issue here. I get that EB probably wouldn't have tested it for that as everything ran fine until I tried a profile on it. It would be hard to find that when they refurbish the system I guess.

Just annoys me that they wouldn't even unlock it for us to use even with proof of purchase. Hell I bought 10 games with the console, half of which were new, and surely the long term use would mean more to Sony than the tiny amount they might have made on a new console purchase. Just so frustrating and not a great welcome for a new console owner in his 40s who doesn't quite get gaming yet as it is haha.
Click to expand...

proof of purchase doesn't mean anything or verify anything and sony still has those chargebacks from the previous owner. i don't think it's really that much about making money as much as it is possibly opening up another avenue for someone to commit fraud again.
 
If they ban the acc. the current owner can just make a new one, so they brick it.

It's not like there's a dearth of second hand PS4's. Sony let's the secondhand market live just fine.
 
The previous owner must've done something really really bad. I never heard before of bricking consoles this gen. Last gen - sure, but only the pirated ones.
 
Alucrid said:
why brick a console? so that the person who might have made $1000 in fraudulent purchases can't use it. why not unlock it? so that the person who committed fraud can't then lie to get it unlocked. sony doesn't lose anything. eb games should have checked the system.
Click to expand...
Disregarding the fact that the sum is very unlikely to be realistic: There are two cases to distinct:
1. The user already used the balance obtained in a way Sony does not agree with, in that case, the user can use the games he downloaded, just not play them online (if only the profile was banned, he could also play them online with another account though)
2. The user has not used the balance obtained in a way Sony does not agree with, in that case, by banning the profile, the user will never be able to use the balance, no matter if the console is banned or not.

So the only thing Sony achieves by this is that the games cannot be played online.

Considering the stories about Sony's dealing with money being taken from user accounts erroneously, I hesitate to call this flat-out fraud btw.
 
Alucrid said:
uh...they didn't brick that console because it was sold second hand. this has nothing to do with whether or not they're supporting the second hand market, which they are
Click to expand...
It's extremely terrible to punish other potential or actual legitimate users because one person commited a breach of TOS. When Microsoft banned modded Xbox 360s, they only banned the hardware and not all accounts that happened to be on the system at the time because those other users may have been unaware or it wasn't them who commited the breach.
Hardware and account bans should always be separate to not punish the wrong person.
Now if your question is what's keeping that person from repeating the breach of TOS aka. chargebacks? His credit score and banking system. He's only ruining his own future if he keeps performing chargebacks on a consistent basis, banks monitor this behaviour too.
 
etta said:
It's extremely terrible to punish other potential or actual legitimate users because one person commited a breach of TOS. When Microsoft banned modded Xbox 360s, they only banned the hardware and not all accounts that happened to be on the system at the time because those other users may have been unaware or it wasn't them who commited the breach.
Hardware and account bans should always be separate to not punish the wrong person.
Now if your question is what's keeping that person from repeating the breach of TOS aka. chargebacks? His credit score and banking system. He's only ruining his own future if he keeps performing chargebacks on a consistent basis, banks monitor this behaviour too.
Click to expand...

OP's account didn't get banned. he just couldn't download it to the new console.
 
Sony is a complete shitshow. It would not at all surprise me if Sony were at fault rather than the original owner. Bricking a console is an awful thing to do.
 
etta said:
It's extremely terrible to punish other potential or actual legitimate users because one person commited a breach of TOS. When Microsoft banned modded Xbox 360s, they only banned the hardware and not all accounts that happened to be on the system at the time because those other users may have been unaware or it wasn't them who commited the breach.
Hardware and account bans should always be separate to not punish the wrong person.
Now if your question is what's keeping that person from repeating the breach of TOS aka. chargebacks? His credit score and banking system. He's only ruining his own future if he keeps performing chargebacks on a consistent basis, banks monitor this behaviour too.
Click to expand...

The question is, why is anyone selling bricked PS4's?

once it's broken, it has 0 value. There's no "potential" owner anymore, the console doesn't work.
 
etta said:
Yea I was talking about the breacher of the TOS's account. Sony banned his profile and the console that profile was on.
Click to expand...

okay, so i'm not sure how the op was punished by sony's actions. seems like he was screwed over by eb game's checks for trade ins.
 
How is Sony at fault?

EB games should do their job and check if the consoles works online. Wifi is available everywhere. It's not like the 360 banning days.

If it was a new console then yeah Sony are at fault. But if it used, what are Sony supposed to do? How do they not know you the previous owner trying to pull a fast one?
 
Just curious, what kinda of shenanigans one would need to do, to make this happen? I don't even get how one could end up owning money to them? Wouldn't you just own money to your credit card provider?
 
Seems pretty normal to be honest.

Admittedly, we'll never know the details of what the previous owner did with the machine and he shouldn't have sold the machine on without advising EB Games of the issue with it, irrelevant of the origin of the issue. EB Games have an obligation to ensure that everything is at it should before reselling it, they're taking money for it without knowing what they're actually selling and they have an absolute obligation to know what it is they're taking money from people for.

There's nothing you can do here about the original seller but EB Games had to refund here as they're selling you something that isn't a part of the contract that you've agreed with them. I'm glad they sorted out their what they did though.
 
patapuf said:
The question is, why is anyone selling bricked PS4's?

once it's broken, it has 0 value. There's no "potential" owner anymore, the console doesn't work.
Click to expand...
I don't know, EB takes down your info when you sell hardware to them precisely with this point. So the guy must have been stupid since now EB will contact him about it.
Alucrid said:
okay, so i'm not sure how the op was punished by sony's actions. seems like he was screwed over by eb game's checks for trade ins.
Click to expand...
OP could've been a family member using the same system. The point is to limit the ban to the person who committed the crime.
 
I am guessing this person was running those shady deals where they sell digital games cheap on eBay where you need account to download them. These people tend to do charge backs a few months later and the account gets banned. Otherwise how can they sell these games at a loss?
 
Same thing was happening with 360s last gen IIRC. It's on EB Games to check this stuff out if they are going to be in the business of selling secondhand hardware. They sold you a defective console. They should replace it.
 
I've heard stories about MS doing it and maybe Nintendo (not 100% sure), but didn't know Sony was doing the same thing.

Is there any middle ground that can be achieved in these cases?
 
A timed ban would probably be a better all round solution. I suppose from Sony's point of view they're not worried if there is a little doubt in people's minds about buying a used console though.
 
etta said:
I don't know, EB takes down your info when you sell hardware to them precisely with this point. So the guy must have been stupid since now EB will contact him about it.

OP could've been a family member using the same system. The point is to limit the ban to the person who committed the crime.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about??? You're just yelling at hypothetical clouds.
 
Let me get this straight. You don't have an issue with the guy who sold a bricked console to EB, you don't have an issue with EB for selling you a bricked console, but you have an issue with the company that bricked the console for unknown reasons?
 
Moze said:
Sony is a complete shitshow. It would not at all surprise me if Sony were at fault rather than the original owner. Bricking a console is an awful thing to do.
Click to expand...
You have no clue, all companies ban consoles. The fault is on EB and no one else.
 
I'm pretty sure that the Neo's business model is relying on the market getting flooded with cheap second had ps4's, without Sony selling he console at a loss.

The main point of incremental upgrades is to increase user base. Sony should in fact love and embrace the second hand market. I think Sony should give the second hand retailer a means to unlock the console. Better for everyone.

I fundamentally blame the lack of testing here by the retailer, but if I were Sony I would partner with retails to help them unlock consoles in the event of this happening.
 
RibMan said:
Let me get this straight. You don't have an issue with the guy who sold a bricked console to EB, you don't have an issue with EB for selling you a bricked console, but you have an issue with the company that bricked the console for unknown reasons?
Click to expand...

Oh for sure it annoys me that someone would ditch a bricked console at EB, yet I can see why they did. I am annoyed EB doesn't test for this but then again as long as the machine boots up with no errors they would get so few of these why waste the time testing for it when they'll just replace the machine, like they did, no questions asked anyway.

I'm annoyed at Sony primarily as it seems absolute overkill to punish someone like this when trading consoles isn't exactly uncommon and this probably occurs more often than not when a permanent console ban happens causing some poor sap to go through the dramas I did.

Imagine buying the console privately from someone and having this happen. You'd have no recourse and be out the money too bad.
 
cookie-monster said:
A timed ban would probably be a better all round solution. I suppose from Sony's point of view they're not worried if there is a little doubt in people's minds about buying a used console though.
Click to expand...

Why would a timed ban be better?

Are people really been seriously? The person hasn't just abused people. He hasn't done a chargeback on just one account

The guy most likely has done some seriously shit for Sony to ban account. That's why I was speculating that he mostly made like 20 accounts selling games with accounts. Did a chargeback on all of them and got his money back. Sony don't just ban all the accounts they decide to ban the whole system.
 
Wait, Sony can't brick a console? But they can permanently block a console from accessing their online network.

Interested that the OP says he updated the console, can you update games too in this situation?
 
EB really should've done a better job of checking to make sure the console worked before selling it to you.
 
Isn't the lock put on the Blu-ray drive chip? If so that explains why so many are for sale on with none working drives.

Unplugging the two drive cables let's you connect and set up the PS4 but whatever drive is in the PS4(not the original) needs to be plugged back in to play online.
So in other words people who are happy to pull consoles apart can buy blocked ones and put worn out Blu-ray drives in to sell them as digital only PS4'S.
 
filly said:
I'm pretty sure that the Neo's business model is relying on the market getting flooded with cheap second had ps4's, without Sony selling he console at a loss.

The main point of incremental upgrades is to increase user base. Sony should in fact love and embrace the second hand market. I think Sony should give the second hand retailer a means to unlock the console. Better for everyone.

I fundamentally blame the lack of testing here by the retailer, but if I were Sony I would partner with retails to help them unlock consoles in the event of this happening.
Click to expand...

Why should Sony unlock consoles?

How about retailer does its job and check console works online before buying it off seller? The whole purpose of Sony doing this is to make console worthless so he can't sell it because the seller has done serious shit.
 
RibMan said:
Let me get this straight. You don't have an issue with the guy who sold a bricked console to EB, you don't have an issue with EB for selling you a bricked console, but you have an issue with the company that bricked the console for unknown reasons?
Click to expand...
If you're talking to me, of course those parties are also at fault, but Sony was the the first in line, and they could have stopped the whole process by not banning the console for chargebacks (which was what my argument was based on, not modding...).
 
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