Support NeoGAF

[Feral Youth]

I think it was poor writing on Chicks part

I found it entertaning enough to read, certainly fluid enough.

However I'm not reviewing a book. Or even reviewing a reviewer.

 

[mentalfloss]

Have you guys forgotten this is the same guy who wrote that "top 10 overrated games of 2008" and that stupid as hell article about Killzone 2. His writing is filled with stupid nitpicking, hypocrisy, and outright lies.

Well then can we at least get a point by point criticism of his arguments in order to show the true merit of his journalism?

And can the other side at least provide a list of Bad PR stunts?

And then can someone define PR?

And then Bad PR?

And how are there no Phoenix Wright photoshops yet?

 

[Kintaro]

Maybe i shouldn't be surprised that so many people on GAF are siding with Sony here :lol

What this PR move says is that only positive articles will allow writers from a site access to the studio.

This is incorrect. The interview was already done. What this proves is that you can't get away with posting snarky ass "critiques" in the form of lame top ten lists with incorrect information and expect the publisher to let you get away with it. You can be critical without being a douche.

Believe it or not, companies don't care if you're critical while being respectful. It's quite easy. When you do this and publishers/PR are still dicks, it's CLEAR who is the dick. Then you just move on.

Why should anyone give you anything when you're disrespectful under the guise of being a "critic"? That's bullshit. Goes for anything out there. If some dude was a snarky asshole in the guise of being "critical" towards you, would you reward them with information about yourself? If so, why? If not, people understand.

 

[shuri]

If the dude is a known troll, has already made fun of the game in article, why should the firm waste precious PR time with him when they can get someone else?

Gaming journos needs to learn their roles and accept the fact that the industry is using them; that they have no real powers at all.

 

[Chromax]

Sony did the right thing.

Can't wait for inFamous! Come on UPS!

 

[Haunted]

Wow, another PR blunder from Sony. When will they learn.

At least this time it wasn't with a high profile game.

:lol


Chick is a hack, I just can't take him seriously.

If the dude is a known troll, has already made fun of the game in article, why should the firm waste precious PR time with him when they can get someone else?

Gaming journos needs to learn their roles and accept the fact that the industry is using them; that they have no real powers at all.

A valid angle.

If the journalist isn't willing to be 100% positive regardless of the quality of the game, what use is he to the publisher? None. And it's not like the publishers can't find a million other sites who'll gladly ask softball questions and write glowing previews for anything.


But I'm drawing the opposite conclusion here - gaming journalists shouldn't need to succumb into their roles of corporate mouthpieces and ways to spread the hype, they should do try to break out of that cycle. Won't happen as long as they're dependent on good relations to the publisher to get scoopz and ad contracts, though.

The system is fucked as it is now.

edit: not talking about Infamous, but in general here.

 

[Tormentoso]

Maybe i shouldn't be surprised that so many people on GAF are siding with Sony here :lol

What this PR move says is that only positive articles will allow writers from a site access to the studio.

And that's bullshit.

Just like it was bullshit when Ubisoft cut off 1up/EGM for one of the assassin's creed reviews.

or when Eidos pushed Gamespot to kick Gerstmann out for the K&L review.

It's just a bunch of whiny corporate babies who can't handle people talking about their products in a bad light. The content of the writers' articles shouldn't be in question.

And, the inherit problem with the gaming enthusiast press (calling it journalism is a joke) is that they fucking need PR. PR has them by the balls. which is why so many previews are gloriously positive and reviews from some major sites use kid gloves.

it's ridiculous.

But, since so many of the consumers want to feel justified in their console of choice or their game of the month (see: this fucking thread), they want positive press everywhere for the stuff they bought and the cycle continues.

That is one way of looking it if in deed was a review poiting the bad part about the game,but what he did was not that,he made a 10 ten list of things that suck with the game,what is worst from what i read just now one of the things he complained about can be avoided by simply pressing the circle buttun,now you have to ask your self has he really play the game,did he suck at it or did he even had time to learn that you can avoid the problem he was complaining about with the press of a buttun.?

Things like that fall into bad journalism,is not oK for sony to do that either and is unproffesional.

 

[Guled]

If the dude is a known troll, has already made fun of the game in article, why should the firm waste precious PR time with him when they can get someone else?

Gaming journos needs to learn their roles and accept the fact that the industry is using them; that they have no real powers at all.

the interview was already done, is when he posted the article about inFamous they said he can't post it. And I can't believe you just said that game journalist should let PR control them, wtf is wrong with you

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Who cares

I do. That a big company does it and they all like to control information. That the line between honest, 3rd party journalism and what companies want you to know about their product is blurred and I can't trust any 3rd party. I care. I complain that newspapers print certain movie reviews that don't line up with 'common' thinking but I applaud them for not giving in to a massive PR machine. At least we can depend on them to push some French revolutionary movie about a boy and his apple as the best movie in a year and Spiderman as absolute shit and I can choose what lines up with me. I can't tell with IGN, Gamespot. And it's a bigger buy in for games, personally.

I trust the combination GAFs inaccurate predictions and a demo more than any published videogame review site. I don't even visit them or get a single mag. Until they merge with reputable journalistic sources, I won't pay attention to them. I'm not sure how they could even do it. Newspapers are dying. They won't die but they will be a shell in a few years. Where else could VG journalists to get any credibility or are they content to feed the internet grime their daily troll feed? As VG companies push further and further, their will be a breaking point.

 

[Tormentoso]

Have you guys forgotten this is the same guy who wrote that "top 10 overrated games of 2008" and that stupid as hell article about Killzone 2. His writing is filled with stupid nitpicking, hypocrisy, and outright lies.

So he actually nit picked Killzone 2 as well.?:lol

 

[-PXG-]

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050811/COMMENTARY/50808002

That's not a "top/ bottom x list". It's more of a summary of what he doesn't like. It's not:

9

Title

Sentence

8...

Plus, he clearly isn't stating his opinion as fact either.

 

[McBacon]

5) Infamous is great about not letting you accidentally run off a ledge.

Try the circle button

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

The interview wasn't already done, what Chick's childish text is supposed to indicate is if he had done the interview it wouldve been all magical, in depth and positive stuff with insight from Nate Fox. Instead we get the 'Bad PR' of him making it public he got snubbed. Its the equivalent of a toddler saying "well I was going to give you this last chocolate, but YOU'VE BEEN MEAN."

The issue of contention is whether Chick actually physically went to the interview to be turned away or not, as Matthew Gallant appears to indicate, with more information at hand or not.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Try the circle button

You can push the circle button to accidentally run off a ledge?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

this is why the gaming press will never be taken seriously. publishers have them all by the balls.

 

[WinFonda]

Is the OP really the Animal Planet host dude? If so, then I've seen fucking everything.

 

[shuri]

the interview was already done, is when he posted the article about inFamous they said he can't post it. And I can't believe you just said that game journalist should let PR control them, wtf is wrong with you

Sadly,the nature of the industry, with its NDAs and secrecy, makes it impossible gaming journos to really do any kind of investigation or anything of that sort, unlike real gaming journos. They depend on PR departements for the most parts.

Small sites or blogs run by nonames will never want to piss off any PR departement so that they don't lose access to 'review copies'; big commercial sites will never really let their journos trash big titles because they dont want companies pulling ads supports. We've all heard those horror stories about deals being made in the printed gaming medias about exclusives stories/covers being exchanged toward 90%+ reviews on certain titles

There's also the fact that there's isnt honestly a lot of well known gaming journos with long lasting careers; except for a few exception, they only last a few years, and then thats it, there's gone. It's hard to build credibility that way.

Also, how can we forget hilarious situations like how it seemed that the 1UP site seemed to be a gaming undustry internship program where just about every journo there ended up working at some game companies after a while.

How you feel if some political journo ended up getting jobs in management at one of the political party he was critical of for years? Think about it. Thats why many people considering gaming journos one notch above beta testers.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

No, I'm not the "Animal Planet host dude".

 

[Barrett2]

This thread is a TRAP to ban PS3 warriors for E3 week!

Bail out!!!

 

[pilonv1]

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/

Infamous “review”

Thumbs down.
Thumbs up.

Confusing, I know. But overall, I’d go with thumbs up.

I'd love to see what some of you would say if he gave it a thumbs down.

This thread is a TRAP to ban PS3 warriors for E3 week!

Bail out!!!

now you've ruined everything

 

[BobTheFork]

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/



I'd love to see what some of you would say if he gave it a thumbs down.



now you've ruined everything

send in the clowns?

 

[syllogism]

e: nm

 

[Tormentoso]

The interview wasn't already done, what Chick's childish text is supposed to indicate is if he had done the interview it wouldve been all magical, in depth and positive stuff with insight from Nate Fox. Instead we get the 'Bad PR' of him making it public he got snubbed. Its the equivalent of a toddler saying "well I was going to give you this last chocolate, but YOU'VE BEEN MEAN."

The issue of contention is whether Chick actually physically went to the interview to be turned away or not, as Matthew Gallant appears to indicate, with more information at hand or not.

Is sad but funny at the same time,because sending the dude for the interview and then letting there with nothing is like the biggest sucker punch to the face..:lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI3D7h5yxOs

It was unproffecional from sony,even that i made some fun of it.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Quick question: can't you drop to hang off an edge by pressing O? At least I thought you could in the demo.

 

[Igo]

Don't worry Tormentoso I agree with you. I stopped reading reviews years ago because of the inconsistency, poor writing, and sometimes outright lies. If I want to learn more about a game i'll just scan gaf or listen to podcasts. It's much easier to determine if I should take these guys seriously when they're talking live and there's a 2nd party to call them out on their bs.

 

[dammitmattt]

I'm baffled at the amount of support Sony's PR is getting. I understand if you want to champion the brand/developer/game, but why in the world do some of you want to champion the damn PR firm?!?

 

[h3ro]

Why do you all care?

Do you all really care what Oscar's gay lover from The Office thinks about Infamous?

 

[Shurs]

One only needs to look at the first article to know that he was baiting fanboys for clicks. "Here are ten things I think are stupid about the game, come back tomorrow to see what I thought was positive." It's obvious he was trolling for hits. Sony called him out on it. He wasn't critiquing the game, he was being a bully.

Tom Chick on LittleBigPlanet:

Awesome graphics! And those little sack people are so cute I could just eat them up! Now where's the game?

 

[Zzoram]

So he actually nit picked Killzone 2 as well.?:lol

I believe his #1 complaint was the height of your character. If you look around, you'll notice your character's eyes are about crotch level of the squad you're with according to him.

 

[Gravijah]

Why do you all care?

Why don't YOU?!

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Why do you all care?

Bored at work maybe? Or just me?

 

[Haunted]

Sadly,the nature of the industry, with its NDAs and secrecy, makes it impossible gaming journos to really do any kind of investigation or anything of that sort, unlike real gaming journos. They depend on PR departements for the most parts.

Small sites or blogs run by nonames will never want to piss off any PR departement so that they don't lose access to 'review copies'; big commercial sites will never really let their journos trash big titles because they dont want companies pulling ads supports. We've all heard those horror stories about deals being made in the printed gaming medias about exclusives stories/covers being exchanged toward 90%+ reviews on certain titles

There's also the fact that there's isnt honestly a lot of well known gaming journos with long lasting careers; except for a few exception, they only last a few years, and then thats it, there's gone. It's hard to build credibility that way.

Also, how can we forget hilarious situations like how it seemed that the 1UP site seemed to be a gaming undustry internship program where just about every journo there ended up working at some game companies after a while.

How you feel if some political journo ended up getting jobs in management at one of the political party he was critical of for years? Think about it. Thats why many people considering gaming journos one notch above beta testers.

Agreed on all points.

Here's hoping we'll find ways to change that in the future - maybe, as gaming becomes more mainstream, it'll be possible for the bigger sites to get their advertising dollars from other companies which are only tangentially, if at all connected to the gaming industry and its megapublishers? Would be at least one possible way to weaken the influence of the publishers on gaming journalists.

Spoiler

Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. :/

 

[McBacon]

You can push the circle button to accidentally run off a ledge?

His complaint is that it’s hard to drop off a ledge, the game keeps you on a rooftop so you don't accidentally fall off. If you push the circle button you can drop down. It’s just a stupid oversight on Chick's part.

 

[h3ro]

Why don't YOU?!

Because I find his work shallow and pedantic.

Spoiler

-IGN.com

Again, however, do you all really care what Oscar's gay lover from The Office thinks about Infamous?

 

[Quixzlizx]

Bitch move.

This is a dick move plain and simple. I don't care about what the author may or may not of said to hurt Sony's feelings, it's still a dick move.

OK, things are getting a bit too anatomically incorrect in here.

 

[Gravijah]

Because I find his work shallow and pedantic.

Spoiler

-IGN.com

I always liked Bruce better, anyways.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Because I find his work shallow and pedantic.

Spoiler

-IGN.com

Again, however, do you all really care what Oscar's gay lover from The Office thinks about Infamous?

HMMMM.....yes.....pedantic.

 

[NinjaFridge]

I believe his #1 complaint was the height of your character. If you look around, you'll notice your character's eyes are about crotch level of the squad you're with according to him.

That annoys me too.

 

[Guled]

Sadly,the nature of the industry, with its NDAs and secrecy, makes it impossible gaming journos to really do any kind of investigation or anything of that sort, unlike real gaming journos. They depend on PR departements for the most parts.

Small sites or blogs run by nonames will never want to piss off any PR departement so that they don't lose access to 'review copies'; big commercial sites will never really let their journos trash big titles because they dont want companies pulling ads supports. We've all heard those horror stories about deals being made in the printed gaming medias about exclusives stories/covers being exchanged toward 90%+ reviews on certain titles

There's also the fact that there's isnt honestly a lot of well known gaming journos with long lasting careers; except for a few exception, they only last a few years, and then thats it, there's gone. It's hard to build credibility that way.

Also, how can we forget hilarious situations like how it seemed that the 1UP site seemed to be a gaming undustry internship program where just about every journo there ended up working at some game companies after a while.

How you feel if some political journo ended up getting jobs in management at one of the political party he was critical of for years? Think about it. Thats why many people considering gaming journos one notch above beta testers.

I understand what your saying, and I agree with you, but they shouldn't just accept it. If they do they shouldn't be calling themselves journalists. The fact they accept it is why that stuff like in the OP happens. PR companies need sites like kotaku and IGN more then they need them, so to say that they have no control and they should just roll with it is just a lame excuse. Sure in the short term, they might suffer, but in the long run the companies will have to come running back

 

[Barrett2]

Why do you all care?

Existential crises of middle class whiteness

 

[syllogism]

Tom Chick on LittleBigPlanet:

His top 10 overrated list of 2008 was almost spot on

 

[Shurs]

No, I'm not the "Animal Planet host dude".

The Quixotic Engineer?

 

[BobTheFork]

Sony PR vs = MircoSoft Customer Service in a steel cage battle of fail!!!!!

Seriously, can we speed this up? I'm picking up this bas ass game in about an hour.

 

[Tormentoso]

the interview was already done, is when he posted the article about inFamous they said he can't post it. And I can't believe you just said that game journalist should let PR control them, wtf is wrong with you

Comepletely agree Journalist should not allow any PR to control them for money,gifts,interviews or anything.

But i also think that journalist should and most be proffeccionals all the time,is not bad to point something bad about a game,but making a top 10 list of things that suck is wrong,make a damn well write review and point the problems,and be consistent all the way.

He even name something as a problem that could be avoided with a single press of a buttun,that is bad journalism all the way,is not that they allow PR to run them which in many cases i think it happen,is about been proffeccional and consistent.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This thread is a TRAP to ban PS3 warriors for E3 week!

Bail out!!!

this would make my [E3] week.

 

[Shurs]

His top 10 overrated list of 2008 was almost spot on

So you don't know where the game is when playing Little Big Planet?

 

[Meier]

Wait. Isn't Tom Chick the guy who makes the religous comics?

 

[Zzoram]

Sony PR vs = MircoSoft Customer Service in a steel cage battle of fail!!!!!

Seriously, can we speed this up? I'm picking up this bas ass game in about an hour.

inFamous may be a good game, but Sony PR is far worse than Microsoft's customer service. Microsoft's flaw is hardware design.

 

[Brandon F]

Just awful.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

inFamous may be a good game, but Sony PR is far worse than Microsoft's customer service. Microsoft's flaw is hardware design.

Keep telling yourself this. Let's just keep on subject.

Sony PR vs = MircoSoft Customer Service in a steel cage battle of fail!!!!!

Seriously, can we speed this up? I'm picking up this bas ass game in about an hour.

I'm getting ready after this post. Can't wait.