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[MisterHero]

COMPANY EXEC SELLING HARDWARE FOR A LOSS AT A LOSS THAT OPPOSING COMPANY HAS MONEY

 

[mentalfloss]

Competition is good.

 

[deepbrown]

Tretton concluded: "I think software companies look and say 'there's no check big enough for us to do exclusive development' ...I think it's going to be harder and harder to have third-party exclusives as we move forward."

The check for MGS4 seemed "big enough"

Was more to MGS4 than money. How about Konami having their own way with their online? No other game could have bought that for any company - ie. undermining Sony's PSN. Big advertising deals through Sony. Kojima's technical wants - whether justified or not.

 

[spwolf]

Of what? This is their latest attempt to try and move some consoles in Japan.

Sorry, it's certainly not a game changer, for the same reason MGS4 wasn't - the people who will buy this game already have whatever console they will buy it on.

but FFXIII will be released only on ps3 in japan, right?

 

[Vangellis]

MS buying their way to the top as usual.

Lol, they are more than buying their way to the top, they are playing their cards better and being smarter about things than Sony have from the start. From the beginning Sony's game plan has seemed like they have had their heads up there asses. I think is the nature of being at the top. Once your there you are start going "fuck we are invincible! we are killing everyone blah blah" When it comes to sitting down and planning the next console you dont push the boundaries enough. Hence why you "home" and the firmware is update constantly. Cause it wasnt planned far enough in advance. Last few years they seem to be throwing shit together from the hip. They are now paying for their mistake for thinking the playstation brand will sell just based on the brand. When you arent at the top you strive hard to get there ....look at nintendo, even MS. Its a game of king of the hill.

I dont really care who is at the top, games are game and there will always be good ones on whatever system you have.

 

[mightynine]

They're the top selling HD videogame console, which is all that matters.

I'm sure they'd like to make some money too.

 

[jay]

I'll quit gaming the day that happens. No competition = consumer getting anal raped.

Unless games will be free in this one console future there will still be competition.

 

[camineet]

Sony's Tretton: 'Disappointed'

 

[jjasper]

I really hope Sony isn't raising the white flag already. Sure, they're not willing to floss money around as liberally as MS, but they really to dig in, and concentrate on the long haul now.

Although they're concentrating most of their efforts on in-house projects, Sony mustn't forget what got them to the top in the first place, exclusive third-party games. Losing FF XIII exclusivety is a hard blow to take (understandably), but they've just gotta roll with the punches.

Fight or die.

3rd party exclusives are a thing of the past. At most there will be timed exclusives but from here on out when you see exclusive it is most likely going to be additional content (DLC or whatever)

 

[le.phat]

Yeah, like Lair and Heavenly Sword.
There's no way a single company can offset the exclusives from all other companies Playstation enjoyed until now.

How convinient to pick 2 time contrained launch titles to try and make a point.
Obviously not all projects end up as expected, but overall 1st party sony games across the board are a step up from the average mulitplatform release. Games like uncharted, Gran Turismo, Ratchet and Clank, Siren, Motorstorm and Resistance are setting new standards across their respective genres, and with the second generation of these titles coming it you can't deny that sony's descisions are heavily paying off.

 

[Y2Kev]

We did OK in the NES days. There was no real competition.

And the nice thing was I didn't miss out on any games. I got my Metal gear, my Final Fantasy, my Metroid and Mario Brothers all on the same system.

Really, Gregor? Things were good for developers, gamers, and the industry in general when Nintendo ruled with an iron fist? Is that a GAF fact? :lol

 

[OldJadedGamer]

MS buying their way to the top as usual.

How do you think Sony got started in the business? Everyone around that time remembers them buying up third party exclusives. I think the first public one that I remember was Tomb Raider 2. Remember, before Sony had the Playstation they were making Sega CD games based off of retarded movies like Last Action Hero and Three Ninjas Strike Back.

 

[Grecco]

Its pretty funny early last year. The talk was first party first party. We have things like Heavenly Sword, Lair, Warhawk, ect ect. When these games did not meet expectations the talk was about 08 and actual franchises coming like Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Theft Auto 4, and Final Fantasy Thirteen. All third party games two of them exclusive. Now its back to the well we have first party stuff again.

Its like the swaying of the branches of a tree. Where does the wind blow?


anyways the future isnt one experience. Its Exclusive content. Exclusive Chapters, Exclusive DLC, Exclusive modes like online Co Op. It sucks cause in the end the consumer will pay more. But thats the future of Third Party software.

 

[BlueTsunami]

:lol

I doubt the Xfans who haven't been following the development of FFXIII get it but holy shit :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm sure they'd like to make some money too.

They're making money now, you can put that argument away.

 

[Chiggs]

From the beginning Sony's game plan has seemed like they have had their heads up there asses. I think is the nature of being at the top. Once your there you are start going "fuck we are invincible! we are killing everyone blah blah"

Which is why I pray for delicious irony in the form of floundering Wii sales.

 

[NolbertoS]

Ha, ha! No.

You fail to realize that MS and Nintendo aren't even really in the same market, nor are they going after the same consumer. MS is getting more and more aggressive with the whole family thing, so once the new Xbox releases with Nintendo's strategy and launch with an "easy to use" controller of their own, it'll be a wrap. Not an Xbot in the slightest. I just understand that M$ will stop at nothing to become #1 in every field they enter.

Like I said, you can have a great battle, but IN THE END...

The problem with that strategy is Nintendo has just as a deep a warchest as MS to prolong a console battle forever. Also this isn't the PC market, where MS is the undisputed market leader. MS has shareholders to answer for. MS can't keep spending money on the Xbox division till Hell freezes over, cuz their will be a shareholder revolt. Just 2-3 year's ago, Steve Ballmer got grilled by shareholders over his continued buying spree by buying timed exclusives for the Xbox division, most of the shareholder's wanted MS to get outta that market, but Steve convinced shareholders to see where this strategy is heading. So far, Tretton is right in saying that MS, spends, spends, spends, but how long till they see the returns breaking even for them in the Xbox division (I'm including the original Xbox revenues and expenses into this argument, as the shareholder's haven't forgotten they lost millions there).

 

[Soroc]

Personally I think this was more on the Squenix end than Microsoft. I mean FFXII took so damn long and so much money to make, I can only imagine what XIII is running them. It just makes more sense for SE to put it out on as many consoles as it can.

I can see SE going to MSFT and saying hey we got an idea if you got a few bucks instead of the other way around.

 

[VanMardigan]

Which is why I pray for delicious irony in the form of floundering Wii sales.

Yeah, I think I prefer when Sony was king, even though I didn't like them at the time. This Nintendo reign sucks, and this coming from yet another former Nintendo fanboy who prayed for Nintendo to someday be on top of the industry.

But let's get MS on top for a while and see what happens. Equal opportunity at the top and all.

The problem with that strategy is Nintendo has just as a deep a warchest as MS to prolong a battle forever.

huh?

 

[gregor7777]

Really, Gregor? Things were good for developers, gamers, and the industry in general when Nintendo ruled with an iron fist? Is that a GAF fact? :lol

Damned if I know how it was for devs lol...I was like 7 when I got my NES. All I mean is that for me, the gamer, I had access to a lot of the franchises that are divided now on one system.

 

[Luckyman]

Things would be different if Sony used the money to make Lair to buy some nice exclusives.

Yes, but really for FF they would have to give hundreds of millions to SE. Lair is a drop in the sea.

What they failed was that it´s day-and-date on 360 in the west. Unlike MGS4.

 

[majortom1981]

Ha, ha! No.

You fail to realize that MS and Nintendo aren't even really in the same market, nor are they going after the same consumer. MS is getting more and more aggressive with the whole family thing, so once the new Xbox releases with Nintendo's strategy and launch with an "easy to use" controller of their own, it'll be a wrap. Not an Xbot in the slightest. I just understand that M$ will stop at nothing to become #1 in every field they enter.

Like I said, you can have a great battle, but IN THE END...

Yes but nitnendo's console will most likely be hd also. Nintendo waits till features are cheap enough. By the time the next console is ready it will be cheap to do hd. Nintendo will not be in trouble for the next generation. Remember nintendo has to go about business differently because they only do video games.

 

[Alski]

Only worthwhile thing he said I think.

and by worthwhile do you mean obvious?

 

[jjasper]

:lol At people saying MS bought their way to the top. The reality is MS was smart with their money putting money into worthwhile development.
Example:
While Sony gave millions of money to have Factor 5, Level 5, and Ninja Theory make Lair, White Knight Story (lol), and Heavenly Sword MS paid Epic, Mistwalker, and Bioware to make games like Gears of War, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.

 

[soldat7]

How convinient to pick 2 time contrained launch titles to try and make a point.
Obviously not all projects end up as expected, but overall 1st party sony games across the board are a step up from the average mulitplatform release. Games like uncharted, Gran Turismo, Ratchet and Clank, Siren, Motorstorm and Resistance are setting new standards across their respective genres, and with the second generation of these titles coming it you can't deny that sony's descisions are heavily paying off.

The games you mention are all good games but are hardly setting new standards. In fact, there are hardly ANY (there are a couple) new games this generation setting new standards on any console.

 

[BobsRevenge]

Its pretty funny early last year. The talk was first party first party. We have things like Heavenly Sword, Lair, Warhawk, ect ect. When these games did not meet expectations the talk was about 08 and actual franchises coming like Metal Gear Solid 4, Gran Theft Auto 4, and Final Fantasy Thirteen. All third party games two of them exclusive. Now its back to the well we have first party stuff again.

Its like the swaying of the branches of a tree. Where does the wind blow?


anyways the future isnt one experience. Its Exclusive content. Exclusive Chapters, Exclusive DLC, Exclusive modes like online Co Op. It sucks cause in the end the consumer will pay more. But thats the future of Third Party software.

Honestly Heavenly Sword and Warhawk were really awesome. Heavenly Sword was short, but aside from that got judged unfairly I think. Really memorable game. Warhawk is just fantastic.

And that's a terrible future. When I see exclusive DLC I get mad. It's so obviously because a console maker is buying that exclusivity and a company depriving part of their player base of the full potential of their game isn't good business. I don't know how but I hope this starts biting someone in the ass because it's a really unfortunate development.

 

[Raziel]

Maybe Sony should actually start DOING something about it?

 

[Vinci]

Ha, ha! No.

You fail to realize that MS and Nintendo aren't even really in the same market, nor are they going after the same consumer. MS is getting more and more aggressive with the whole family thing, so once the new Xbox releases with Nintendo's strategy, it'll be a wrap. Not an Xbot in the slightest. I just understand that M$ will stop at nothing to become #1 in every field they enter.

Like I said, you can have a great battle, but IN THE END...

Microsoft is in this market to cut Sony off at the pass. That has been the sole reason for them dumping billions into building their gaming systems. That's it. Sony was seen as a potential danger to them in the future, so they moved against them.

Nintendo's Nintendo. They'll be around so long as consoles or handhelds exist.

 

[lupinko]

Gears is a second party game, like Resistance not a third party exclusive.

Resistance is a 1st party exclusive because Sony owns the IP with Insomniac as 2nd party.

Whereas Gears is owned by Epic, who is a 3rd party, that just lets MS publish and distribute the game for them.

 

[Maximilian E.]

So basically...

"Atari invented it, Nintendo pioneered it, Sony mainstreamed it, Microsoft bought it"??

Well, MS should play it strengths if they want to "win" or be market leader. MS has lots of cash and anything that makes 360 more attractive, is a good thing. How MS makes 360 more attractive, well, its up to MS.. but money seems to be something that everybody likes...

 

[F#A#Oo]

I read the title of the thread as "Sony's Tretton: 'Disappointed' In Multiplatform FFXIII Through MS' 'Currying Flavour'...

 

[Developer in Training]

The problem with that strategy is Nintendo has just as a deep a warchest as MS to prolong a battle forever. Also this isn't the PC market, where MS is the undisputed market leader. MS has shareholders to answer for. MS can't keep spending money on the Xbox division till Hell freezes over, cuz their will be a shareholder revolt. Just 2-3 year's ago, Steve Ballmer got grilled by shareholders over his continued buying spree by buying timed exclusives for the Xbox division, most of the shareholder's wanted MS to get outta that market, but Steve convinced shareholders to see where this strategy is heading. So far, Tretton is right in saying that MS, spends, spends, spends, but how long till they see the returns breaking even for them in the Xbox division (I'm including the original Xbox revenues and expenses into this argument, as the shareholder's haven't forgotten they lost millions there).

I really wonder what the shareholders are thinking.

Vista isn't doing well and needs more push. Games for Windows is not working.

Their OS market is still dominating, but Vista isn't. That might be scaring some shareholders. They really need to focus other parts of their market as well.

 

[Vangellis]

Which is why I pray for delicious irony in the form of floundering Wii sales.

Im sure of it, they wont be up there forever. Im mean look at the nes and snes they were the shit and then the playstation hit and bam... not at the top anymore. I mean they were sticking to cartridge based games in the generation of CD lol... perfect example of sticking to old game plans and expecting your brand to carry you. Why take more risks when you are at the top?

 

[bj00rn_]

Nah microsoft does Microsoft business. It's completely different to the way other companies work. Once they got to the top they did everything to stay there, many of it included non-friendly-business work. Call it business? Nah. Call it Microsoft.

 

[Chiggs]

So far, Tretton is right in saying that MS, spends, spends, spends, but how long till they see the returns breaking even for them in the Xbox division (I'm including the original Xbox revenues and expenses into this argument, as the shareholder's haven't forgotten they lost millions there).

I know there have been ups and downs, but massive stock losses? It's a fact that MS lost billions on the Xbox, but overall the company was still remarkably profitable even in the worst year for the entertainment division.

 

[BobsRevenge]

:lol At people saying MS bought their way to the top. The reality is MS was smart with their money putting money into worthwhile development.
Example:
While Sony gave millions of money to have Factor 5, Level 5, and Ninja Theory make Lair, White Knight Story (lol), and Heavenly Sword MS paid Epic, Mistwalker, and Bioware to make games like Gears of War, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.

I know, it's almost like Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, Resistance, and Warhawk never existed! LOL!

Goddamn you.

 

[KernelPanic]

I don't know why Sony is acting all surprised.

They bought a lot of studios and invested heavily into 1st/2nd party development, expecting the industry to go in this direction.

Microsoft doesn't have as much 1st party resources so they're more focused on moneyhats. Not to mention they figured the 1 year headstart would wipe Sony(and/or Nintendo) off the map.

Different strategies, we'll see who's is more successful.

Jack seems unusually candid though(which is a good thing).

edit: and yes MS is in this to cut Sony off as they see them as a huge threat in the quest to conquer the living room and they will spend whatever it takes to accomplish it. They lost billions last gen and I'm sure they're ready to do so this gen if they have to.

Can anyone imagine what it would be like if the PS3 took off like the Wii ? Microsoft would be handing out free 360's on every street corner (with a free copy of Vista).

 

[lexdysia]

2nd party is actually the customer.

 

[KZObsessed]

wrong thread

 

[zoku88]

Speaking of that, it's a bit odd that MGS4 isn't appearing on the 360. 'Odd' as in my earlier comment:

Wait, you do know that Kojima himself like the Playsation (always has.) I think he's be on record as saying that he didn't like ported the series to other consoles.

I doubt Sony really needed to persuade him at all...

EDIT: To all people saying one-console future. I say to you: no console future. Everything on PC, baby! ^^

 

[Loudninja]

wrong thread

Wrong topic:lol

Edit:damn you are quick

 

[KZObsessed]

Wrong topic:lol

Edit:damn you are quick

Got too excited there.:lol

And of course I'm quick...

Spoiler

Im teh grim reaper!

 

[Reilly]

While Sony gave millions of money to have Factor 5, Level 5, and Ninja Theory make Lair, White Knight Story (lol), and Heavenly Sword MS paid Epic, Mistwalker, and Bioware to make games like Gears of War, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.

There are a few stinkers in Sony's part, but they also invested in Resistance and LBP. And don't act like MS never pissed away money on a third party exclusive game. It happens.

 

[Forsete]

The days of exclusive 3rd party games are coming to an end as we all can see.. Sony were smart in investing that cash into their studios.

Looks to be paying of if you look at the games.

 

[Flakster99]

Speaking at a roundtable Q&A attended by Gamasutra, Sony's Jack Tretton has been discussing Final Fantasy XIII's move from a PlayStation 3 exclusive to a multiplatform title, suggesting Microsoft has spent most of their money "trying to curry favor with third parties".

Aw. *haves a flashback* The circle is complete.

And in 10 years we will have Microsoft whining how Sega is spending their money 'trying to curry favor with third parties'.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I don't know why Sony is acting all surprised.

They bought a lot of studios and invested heavily into 1st/2nd party development, expecting the industry to go in this direction.

Microsoft doesn't have as much 1st party resources so they're more focused on moneyhats. Not to mention they figured the 1 year headstart would wipe Sony(and/or Nintendo) off the map.

Different strategies, we'll see who's is more successful.

Jack seems unusually candid though(which is a good thing).

Microsoft is strengthening it's first party studios

 

[Quixzlizx]

:lol At people saying MS bought their way to the top. The reality is MS was smart with their money putting money into worthwhile development.
Example:
While Sony gave millions of money to have Factor 5, Level 5, and Ninja Theory make Lair, White Knight Story (lol), and Heavenly Sword MS paid Epic, Mistwalker, and Bioware to make games like Gears of War, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and Mass Effect.

What's wrong with White Knight Story?

 

[Deku]

Here's the problem.

The gravy train can't last. It's not sustainable. So when the cash stops due to business unit realignments, things will fall apart rather quickly.

I'm speaking generally here, not in terms of subsidies to specific games, for which there are many. But the general project of losing a shitton on the hardware, then spending some more money to acquire software, many with quesitonable ROIs.

For starters Sony's PS4 strategy is probably going to be back to basics game plan with a profitability map that can make it compete with the market leader with agressive pricing and good technology. Basically back to PSone.

 

[Patryn]

I keep reading all this righteous indignation that MS "bought" their way to the top (and in terms of FFXIII, we have an actual denial that happened on record), and I just don't understand it.

It's a business. Why shouldn't MS buy its way to the top? Because it's not "fair"? Who determines what's fair? Who even said the business was fair in the first place?

Besides, what's the problem with MS coming out on top? A more expensive experience for consumers? As opposed to the company who presented us with a $599 console?

I'd really love for someone to explain to me what is wrong with a company that has money using it to propel themselves to success and get more money.

 

[ari]

Insomniac is independent of Sony.

From the whoring yesterday, i'm pretty sure they should be labeled second party. :/