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[Yoshi]

Ok, so you'll ignore what trans women tell you because you're not addressing a single person who might feel offended by it. To prevent confusion. Got you.

Biological sex is objectively observable and therefore, I think, a legitimate way of grouping. Confusion may arise from my part, because I would always have to use a different genus than the one I identify the people with (because when I learnt my language, I learnt the genus as being the indicator of biological sex), so using the gender people identify with instead needs changing of what I say and this leads to inconsistencies if I overlook an instance. I always make it explicit I mean biological sex, because I aknowledge people have the right to identify themselves with whatever gender they want, irrespecitve of what I am writing and my written identification does not concern their chosen gender-role, but only their (non-chosen, but biologically constant) sex.

Edit: Ah, didn't mean to double post. Went too fast.

What's so hard to understand there? If you want people to always be able to identify with Link and if you say this is not possible if Link does not have the same sex as the player (Or the same gender? Or even both?), even though his sex (and his gender) does not play a role in the game, I am confused if you say that his sexual orientation, which DOES play a role in some of the Zelda games, is NOT a problem with identification. I would expect this to be a much bigger problem.

 

[Don_Tombery]

did they do this

Well, Alfred calls him 'Master'

 

[CTLance]

You and I both know this would easily sell a million copies.

Yeah, the roaring success of Okamiden has shown that action adventures with canine protagonists and a cute artstyle are in demand nowadays.

Spoiler

:´(

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Biological sex is objectively observable and therefore, I think, a legitimate way of grouping. Confusion may arise from my part, because I would always have to use a different genus than the one I identify the people with (because when I learnt my language, I learnt the genus as being the indicator of biological sex), so using the gender people identify with instead needs changing of what I say and this leads to inconsistencies if I overlook an instance. I always make it explicit I mean biological sex, because I aknowledge people have the right to identify themselves with whatever gender they want, irrespecitve of what I am writing and my written identification does not concern their chosen gender-role, but only their (non-chosen, but biologically constant) sex.

I'll put it like this. Pretty please don't call trans women biological males.

What's so hard to understand there? If you want people to always be able to identify with Link and if you say this is not possible if Link does not have the same sex as the player (Or the same gender? Or even both?), even though his sex (and his gender) does not play a role in the game, I am confused if you say that his sexual orientation, which DOES play a role in some of the Zelda games, is NOT a problem with identification. I would expect this to be a much bigger problem.

You've mostly lost me with using 40 words when you could use 10 to say the same thing. Of course if Link was a lesbian girl not everyone would be able to completely identify with her. That's what we have right now. I'm just confused on why you're writing essays on how Link being a lesbian would just destroy all immersion. If girls can stomach playing Zelda despite Link being a straight dude, people could do the same for Link being a girl. Or a lesbian girl. Or black. Or all of those things.

You don't have to be bisexual or lesbian to enjoy the Korra/Asami romance in Avatar but it sure does mean a lot if you are.

Same with Korra being a girl to begin with.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Bruce Wayne and Alfred live together, and Alfred serves him Drinks...

Batman being gay would explain a lot.

 

[Yoshi]

Sonic was out cold, that kiss was non-consensual. That and the entire thing was written out of existence at the end of the game.

It was written out of the timeline, but if we assume sexual orientation is constant, then this shouldn't matter. Also there were romantic scenes before the kiss.

Alright. Considering that you only care about gameplay, does it really matter to you if the main character of said games had different gender?

No, every character shall have whatever gender the creators of the game came up with, it does not matter. If the next Zelda came around featuring a female Link I'd be fine with that. I am not fine with demanding this from the creators, or with making the gender chooseable. Make the whole character constant, I don't want to be forced to do anything to "choose" or "build" my character. When I have to play a WRPG I always lose almost all my interest the very moment I get thrown into a character creator, any step in that direction is a misstep from my perspective.

Demanding gender choice would be the logical consequence of demanding better identifcation for everyone, because just swapping Link's gender improves the situation for some and makes it worse for others (makes no difference to me though). But then there will be other problems that arise, we already talked about sexual orientation, which would then lead to the story being written with more care to differentiate between choices here, then people might not be fine with Link always being blonde, because fuck it, I'm not blonde. Or Link being light-skinned, because, well, I might be black. This quickly leads down the rabbid hole of a full character creator, more work being put into the story and of course work being put into said creator. This would be horrible imo.

 

[Corpekata]

did they do this

This reminds me of something I'd like expect Tina from Bob's Burgers to do to Jimmy Jr.

 

[liliththepale]

Batman being gay would explain a lot.

He courts Selina Kyle and others, so his liaisons with Alfred and the Robins make him bi, not gay.

 

[TatteredHat]

Is there a return policy on this mandate or is it non-refundable? D:

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

I don't know. Ocarina's link is what I remember the most. He had huge shoulders back then. Can't really see Link as a woman.

 

[Tinfoilhatsron]

In front of the Temple of Time there are two girls. One of them us Zelda. And another one - a docile looking girl wearing a green tunic and hat. However, it's a mistake to call her a girl. This is Link. The son of the temple's chief priest. Yes, a son. No matter how you look at him, he looks like a lovely girl but he's a guy.

"Ganon-san, hello."

He makes a quick bow to me. His voice and behaviour make him look like a female. Or maybe more feminine than a female.

But he's a guy.

Taller than Zelda, and of a very slim build.

But he's a guy.

Looks good in a green tunic.

But he's a guy.

He's holding a sword, so I'm guessing that he was in the middle of training.

But he's a guy.

It's so hot, even though it's almost evening.

But he's a guy.

The damn cicadas won't shut up.

But he's a guy.

Shit I got this reference. Pretty good one.

 

[Bulbasaur]

Young, pre-Toon Link was pretty effeminate. But then he turns into a pointy nosed masculine assassin thanks to the miraculous ocarina.

You cant change a fictional character's sexuality just because you feel like it. Not like real life, it's not canon.

 

[Richie]

Better get on that right away then, because Link is canonically female in every mainline Zelda game (Link is male in the CDi games).

You just have to love the incompetence that went behind that. Early concept art on the CDi games reveals our heroine was gonna be the amazing lass she's always been, but some braindead executives thought male characters would be what players really wanted, and forced El Link upon us. We all saw it coming; the games bombed HARD and Nintendo wisely took back our beloved lady from Philips' stupid claws.

 

[Yoshi]

I'll put it like this. Pretty please don't call trans women biological males.

I can somehow (only somehow though, because stating something that is factually correct should always be fine) understand why this would be desirable, therefore I will address specific people with the genus of the gender they identify themselves with, but I don't see the harm with talking about biological sexes when only talking on a conceptual level.

You've mostly lost me with using 40 words when you could use 10 to say the same thing. Of course if Link was a lesbian girl not everyone would be able to completely identify with her. That's what we have right now. I'm just confused on why you're writing essays on how Link being a lesbian would just destroy all immersion. If girls can stomach playing Zelda despite Link being a straight dude, people could do the same for Link being a girl. Or a lesbian girl. Or black. Or all of those things.

You don't have to be bisexual or lesbian to enjoy the Korra/Asami romance in Avatar but it sure does mean a lot if you are.

Same with Korra being a girl to begin with.

I'm actually not writing essays about lesbian Link destroying all immersion, for me, Link might as well be lesbian. But if you argue that for the sake of identification Link should be female (still, why female, is the larger part of Zelda's demographic female?), I must say it's inconsistent to say it's fine if Link then is homosexual, because from your line of thought it should follow that this would hinder identification for way more people than it would help, making it an illogical choice. You don't need to be heterosexual or male (both, biologically and self-identified) or caucasian to enjoy The Legend of Zelda either, so what's the point really?

 

[AkuMifune]

Sure, but now the parts with kid Link in oot make me feel dirty.

Oh right, they already did.

 

[Yoshi]

I don't know. Ocarina's link is what I remember the most. He had huge shoulders back then. Can't really see Link as a woman.

Probably has bigger shoulders than Link

 

[QueenOfThorns]

I can somehow (only somehow though, because stating something that is factually correct should always be fine) understand why this would be desirable, therefore I will address specific people with the genus of the gender they identify themselves with, but I don't see the harm with talking about biological sexes when only talking on a conceptual level.

I'm actually not writing essays about lesbian Link destroying all immersion, for me, Link might as well be lesbian. But if you argue that for the sake of identification Link should be female (still, why female, is the larger part of Zelda's demographic female?), I must say it's inconsistent to say it's fine if Link then is homosexual, because from your line of thought it should follow that this would hinder identification for way more people than it would help, making it an illogical choice. You don't need to be heterosexual or male (both, biologically and self-identified) or caucasian to enjoy The Legend of Zelda either, so what's the point really?

You know. I've heard a lot about Nintendo's artistic vision. But whenever gender comes up it moves awfully quick to discussion DEMOGRAPHICS and COLD HARD CAPITALISM. That seems kinda strange when we're discussing artistic vision, doesn't it?

Spoiler

Especially when it's cold hard fact that Link is a girl.

 

[Yoshi]

You know. I've heard a lot about Nintendo's artistic vision. But whenever gender comes up it moves awfully quick to discussion DEMOGRAPHICS and COLD HARD CAPITALISM. That seems kinda strange when we're discussing artistic vision, doesn't it?

Spoiler

Especially when it's cold hard fact that Link is a girl.

I didn't say a word about capitalism. At all. If we are talking about character identification it makes sense to talk demographics in general though.

EDIT: And to add to this: Nintendo's artitistic vision, if there is any behind the sex-choice for Link, is that he is male.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Better get on that right away then, because Link is canonically female in every mainline Zelda game (Link is male in the CDi games).

Zelda was also the star of one of the CDi games.

Phillips do what Nintendon't.

 

[Cuburt]

This is something GAF will take ultra "ironically" serious, huh?

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Link is as much a girl as Peter Pan is. Both are usually played by women (the latter in plays more than movies) because what man get portray an eleven looking prepubescent boy?

 

[DXLelouch153]

Link is as much a girl as Peter Pan is. Both are usually played by women because what man get portray an eleven looking prepubescent boy?

Orlando Bloom makes a damn convincing elf like person

 

[Dice//]

Link is as much a girl as Peter Pan is. Both are usually played by women because what man get portray an eleven looking prepubescent boy?

Hah! Love it.

 

[DXLelouch153]

i will LAUGH MY ASS OFF
if all this desire for Link to be a girl results in the WiiU Link being a girl(due to word of mouth and gossip)
the chaos it will wrought will fuel me for GENERATIONS!

 

[anothertech]

I'm missing how anyone is concluding link is female...

Having played every Zelda game since Famicom, there is no way anyone could come to this conclusion... Unless they didn't play the games.

Am I missing something?

 

[DXLelouch153]

I'm missing how anyone is concluding link is female...

Having played every Zelda game since Famicom, there is no way anyone could come to this conclusion... Unless they didn't play the games.

Am I missing something?

the three goddesses got super drunk one day and decided to change Links gender from now on to a girl
just because they can

 

[Richie]

the three goddesses got super drunk one day and decided to change Links gender from now on to a girl
just because they can

They also messed with the royal duties, Zelda's now a peasant and the land's under the ruling of Prince Tingle.

 

[liliththepale]

the three goddesses got super drunk one day and decided to change Links gender from now on to a girl
just because they can

No, Link has always been female.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

They also messed with the royal duties, Zelda's now a peasant and the land's under the ruling of Prince Tingle.

I really don't see what's wrong with Nintendo following fan's demands to the letter if this is what we'll get.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Yeah that "it'd look the same" logic falls apart when we got people asking for a black link or a link that isn't hylian. What's the excuse then? "It's still the same character in spirit!"

Changing link to a female is just a excuse to change him even further which in turn would be taking a highly iconic character and destroying his design.

Why does their need to be an excuse?

How is the design destoryed? No one is saying get rid of the green tunic and hat

Man you seem really upset over more representation

 

[HiredN00bs]

You cant change a fictional character's sexuality just because you feel like it. Not like real life, it's not canon.

Not sure what you're talking about, her sexuality has never really been explored and remains a mystery!

Link has never asserted her gender in any context because she is a silent protagonist.

 

[tcrunch]

Biological sex is objectively observable

It is if you karyotype someone, sure.

 

[black_vegeta]

Nah

 

[truestatic]

No, Link has always been female.

As surely as we've always been at war with Eastasia.

 

[Yoshi]

It is if you karyotype someone, sure.

When only speaking conceptually about a class, the method of proving the containment in a class is not really important.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Yeah that "it'd look the same" logic falls apart when we got people asking for a black link or a link that isn't hylian. What's the excuse then? "It's still the same character in spirit!"

Changing link to a female is just a excuse to change him even further which in turn would be taking a highly iconic character and destroying his design.

link as a girl is a gateway drug, kids. one day you're minding your own business on your stoop and a guy walks up to you and says he can make link a girl, for free. you say yes because that's something you've always been interested in and when you finally play it it's pretty good it lives up to the hype.

the next day the man walks up to you and says "holy shit, you've got to try this. link as a black woman."

"Whoa, that sounds like pretty hardcore stuff, is it safe?" You ask, weariness in your voice.

"Is it safe? I got this shit special for you. It'd be a shame if you didn't try it."

You play the game and it's even better than Link as a girl. You spend hours playing it, but soon you feel a slight weariness. You see the green cloak, and pointy ears, and enough of them still seems like Link, but...

Three Weeks Later

You're hiding in the laundry basket again. He hasn't been able to find you here. You pray that you'll go another day without hearing his voice, and the sweet things he offers. The withdrawal is torture, but at least Link is mostly in tact. The sanctity of Link is still in place. It can still be saved, if everyone just remembers what a terrible mistake all this was. But you feel it, then. The indescribable urge.

He's found you.

"I want you to see this," he says, eyes burning holes in your defenses. You feel weak. Your breath is fast and uneven.

"Get this. Black. Lesbian. Transgender....plus sized Link."
Your eyes widen.

My god, they've finally done it.

"And she don't even have pointy ears."

You fall down to your knees, sobbing, unable to hold back the tears.

You finally really did it.

YOU MANIACS! YOU BLEW IT ALL UP! GOD DAMN YOU! GOD DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

 

[virtualS]

No.

 

[liliththepale]

No.

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

 

[struggler_guts]

So I read the first page then came here, I still don't get what's going on. I'm aware of the ign interview thread but this thread is... What, exactly?

 

[dark10x]

Ha, this thread is a riot.

How about a swap? Link becomes female and Samus becomes...

 

[KojiKnight]

Better get on that right away then, because Link is canonically female in every mainline Zelda game (Link is male in the CDi games).

The real interesting thing would be if they ever made Zelda a girl.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Actually I want a blind link too

 

[Dice//]

Ha, this thread is a riot.

How about a swap? Link becomes female and Samus becomes...

I laughed. That smile got me xD

 

[Gambit 1138]

I'd be ok with a girl link and usually I'm a traditionalist. Each Zelda game is a new version of the legend anyway (that "canon" timeline is a joke) so it makes sense in the modern age that their would be other interpretations of the legend where Link is a girl

 

[Pila]

So I read the first page then came here, I still don't get what's going on. I'm aware of the ign interview thread but this thread is... What, exactly?

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Feels strange when it's the staff opening a topic like this.

 

[Felensis]

I would be totally ok with this. Would even make more sense if you keep in mind that Nintendo sees Link as a connection from the player to the game. That's why he was called Link in the first place, so why don't put in an option for selecting Links gender at the beginning?

 

[TatteredHat]

My favourite King Arthur is a girl as well, so I guess I'm a-ok with female link.

 

[Dice//]

Yeah that "it'd look the same" logic falls apart when we got people asking for a black link or a link that isn't hylian. What's the excuse then? "It's still the same character in spirit!"

Changing link to a female is just a excuse to change him even further which in turn would be taking a highly iconic character and destroying his design.

Those genitals...

 

[Mory Dunz]

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about this. Feels strange when it's the staff opening a topic like this.

Seems like it was an excuse for people to post weird Zelda deviant art.
Where do they find these anyway?


Like...what were you searching for...?

 

[Alo0oy]

And Nintendo wonders why only 7% of Wii U owners are women, at this point even dudebro games like Call of Duty cater to women better.