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Spider-Man graphics downgrade?
- Thread starter ILLtown
- Start date
AprXSihezIII
Banned
I dont have anything to compare it against. Then again, we could compare it to the length of Sonys cock. That is of course, if you think you could spare a moment and dismount it.
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CJY
Banned
I don't personify corporate entities. You clearly do. I think you've major issues. Seriously, I'm concerned for you. Seek help. It's not too late.
deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
I miss Machinima's good old days
It doesn't look like they reduced any effect between the screens and it's not an expensive effect to begin with. Framerates in both versions of the cutscene should be almost equal.
AprXSihezIII
Banned
User was banned for general conduct and attitude towards others. Fall into a puddle and cool off.
That isnt a thing.
Youre the sort of person who thinks the indentations on toilet paper is braille. Youre that blind.
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CJY
Banned
Hahahah, you need to Google something to verify if something is "a thing" or not? Lol. What has this world come to?
Ironic that you're complaining about some reflections. Go find a real puddle, and look into it. Or better yet, just go to the mirror, and look at yourself.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
@
A
AprXSihezIII
: I don't understand why are you being pissy about this? This just nature of game development, things change. Sometimes its because of tech or time or budget. Also it's not like the game looks horrible now, it's still damn good looking game.
AprXSihezIII
Banned
No. I was simply providing you with "Receipts™". When theres literally photographic evidence to prove that something has been downgraded...and you still deny it? Youve no business talking about verification of something being a thing.
Ive been reflecting since before 2006. Unlike Spidamahn.
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CJY
Banned
Your feigned outrage and lack of basic decorum is growing tiresome. See ya kid
VulcanRaven
Gold Member
There might be a little downgrade in Spider-Man's suit. But it can look different in different times of day so I'm not sure:
But removing those puddles isn't downgrading. They just moved them to somewhere else. You can still see plenty of puddles in gameplay videos.
But removing those puddles isn't downgrading. They just moved them to somewhere else. You can still see plenty of puddles in gameplay videos.
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AprXSihezIII
Banned
Acknowledging facts isnt "outrage".
The thread is about the downgrade and thats what weve been discussing.
Revolutionary
Member
There's a clear change in the type/quality of Ambient Occlusion used but it's hard to be as definitive with anything else considering the sun has changed position over development and water puddles were removed in this area..
Regardless, as far as I can tell, the only reason this is 'blowing up' is because of console war bullshit. Leave the kiddies to argue about bullshit like this on Twitter.
Regardless, as far as I can tell, the only reason this is 'blowing up' is because of console war bullshit. Leave the kiddies to argue about bullshit like this on Twitter.
octiny
Banned
With insults being thrown from both sides. No need for that.
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AprXSihezIII
Banned
Those werent insults. It was foreplay.
I'm not sure about those downgrades. Most of the comparisons are just showing different lightning conditions. Specular lightning will always put an accent on details (but that's how the real world works too!) so the same texture may seem to have a lot more details depending on the position of the light.
There are some instances where the number of puddles have been reduced, but that looks like an artistic choice to me (to be honest, the original image in this thread is pretty ridiculous, that looks like a swimming pool). The reflections themselves seem to be the same, it's the usual screen space stuff you can see in every modern game nowadays, and that can't reflect things that are outside the screen and also fades out towards the screen edges, so if you compare a screenshot with a pool on the center of screen to other where it's more to the side, it may seem like a downgrade when it's not.
There are some instances where the number of puddles have been reduced, but that looks like an artistic choice to me (to be honest, the original image in this thread is pretty ridiculous, that looks like a swimming pool). The reflections themselves seem to be the same, it's the usual screen space stuff you can see in every modern game nowadays, and that can't reflect things that are outside the screen and also fades out towards the screen edges, so if you compare a screenshot with a pool on the center of screen to other where it's more to the side, it may seem like a downgrade when it's not.
Schrödinger's cat
Banned
I think the images look different. I don't really know the causes of the difference.
I tend to find that when these sorts of things are being examined side-by-side and you are specifically looking for differences, then they are more apparent.
But when it's one version, on its own, in motion - under those circumstances minor changes are not really going to be felt. At least, not by me.
Anecdotally, the game still looks good to me. Prettier than other Spiderman games before it. And I've enjoyed other Insomniac-developed games that I've played.
So, mmmm.. yeah. Still feeling like it'll deliver.
I tend to find that when these sorts of things are being examined side-by-side and you are specifically looking for differences, then they are more apparent.
But when it's one version, on its own, in motion - under those circumstances minor changes are not really going to be felt. At least, not by me.
Anecdotally, the game still looks good to me. Prettier than other Spiderman games before it. And I've enjoyed other Insomniac-developed games that I've played.
So, mmmm.. yeah. Still feeling like it'll deliver.
ILLtown
Member
Brian Altano of IGN made several tweets mocking gamers over this. He made one tweet where he said that gamers are upset over a puddle looking slightly different, but they happily buy Big Macs despite them not looking like they do in the advertising.
People called him out on the comparison and at first he defended it and said it was valid, then he said it was just a joke, then literally as I was in the process of creating this thread he deleted the tweet and when I went to copy and paste a link to it, it was gone.
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This is stupid...there is plenty of footage out there for anyone to look at and clearly the game looks just as fantastic as it did back at E3 .
The lighting is less strong probably to more accurately reflect the fact that there is a roof over his head and there shouldn't be strong light reflections on his suit, and puddles should be around the edges where the rain get in and not all over the floor. if your going to argue a downgrade you need better evidence.
The lighting is less strong probably to more accurately reflect the fact that there is a roof over his head and there shouldn't be strong light reflections on his suit, and puddles should be around the edges where the rain get in and not all over the floor. if your going to argue a downgrade you need better evidence.
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Redneckerz
Banned
IGN are taking a rather mocking tone with gamers who are claiming that Spider-Man's graphics have been downgraded: -
Here's an example though: -
E3 2017: -
Actual game: -
What do you think?
There are clearly some things removed (Shadows from building in the distance), reflections are pared back significantly. I strongly suspect the top shot is a socalled in-engine shot, meaning its probably running in-editor and not as opposed to the actual gameplay shot as the bottom shot is.
Its kind of a false PR to do because in-editor you can easily add numerous additions that aren't present in the playable build of the game. This seems to be the case here. So in that sense, it isn't technically a downgrade: Because in-editor the game looks like that.
But in terms of playable gameplay, then yes, clearly there are some things removed. Like i said, not a downgrade perse, but this does call for a new discussion regarding in-engine/in-editor screenshots and video dumps as i feel its basically false promotion towards to the game community. The game only looks like that in hyper polished screenshots/gameplay loops, it does not represent what gamers actually play. But they do this so one can still say: ''It isn't downgraded. See, this is how it looks in-engine/in-editor''.
I disagree on this one. This isnt a lighting tweak: Whole puddles and geometry shadows appear to be removed or significantly reduced. I do believe that there are more facets at play here, see the above for that.
Boss Mog
Member
Wtf does that even mean? There's a clear downgrade in the amount of effects, lighting, shadowing and even textures.
astroglide
Member
Sony is known gor showing games off with graphics better than actual product. They have been doing it since killzone trailor for ps2.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Yeah I remember that. The game looked very good, and everyone was like holy hell the game looks good. Then the game got released, and it was a whole different ballgame.
VulcanRaven
Gold Member
I don't really care about the downgrade but there might be some here. Look at the building Spidey jumps from and there are less cars. I think it is completely understandable to change some things so the game runs better.
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VulcanRaven
Gold Member
There are still puddles in that area. They just removed them from that one place. This is from this year's E3 I think:I disagree on this one. This isnt a lighting tweak: Whole puddles and geometry shadows appear to be removed or significantly reduced. I do believe that there are more facets at play here, see the above for that.
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Adry9
Member
Then I'll know it's real
Redneckerz
Banned
Well yeah, they are still at present in the OP screen, just significantly reducedThere are still buddles in that area. They just removed them from that one place. This is from this year's E3:
The other gifs from your earlier post however do support the thesis that these were done in-engine or in-editor so Insomniac could claim its actual gameplay. Because technically, it is. Just post-processed gameplay and not indicative of what the gaming public actually plays.
Phunkydiabetic
Banned
IGN are taking a rather mocking tone with gamers who are claiming that Spider-Man's graphics have been downgraded: -
Here's an example though: -
E3 2017: -
Actual game: -
What do you think?
Oh look. Gamers being cringe worthy gamers again. Fucks sake people, it's a videogame. "Wah the shader on the wall pips is different!!!". Get over it. Enjoy the game.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Looking at the two images above (post #81), here's some obvious differences.
1. Time of day, old is "golden hour" with sunlight slanting in from camera east, new is midday, sunlight is high overhead. This is most obvious;y shown by the lack of brightening on the crosswalks. Lighting is drastically changed as a result.
2. Lots of Pigeons in new version. Some nesting on building to the left, a flock flying below.
3. Old version has higher vehicle density, but lacks the clearly moving pedestrian traffic of the new build.
4. Far stronger depth-of-field in the new version, with clear focus-defocus effect in motion.
5. Basic camera position and path is not the same, note relative visibility of building on periphery of screen.
Ironically the old version whilst "prettier" is clearly doing less work than the new one.
1. Time of day, old is "golden hour" with sunlight slanting in from camera east, new is midday, sunlight is high overhead. This is most obvious;y shown by the lack of brightening on the crosswalks. Lighting is drastically changed as a result.
2. Lots of Pigeons in new version. Some nesting on building to the left, a flock flying below.
3. Old version has higher vehicle density, but lacks the clearly moving pedestrian traffic of the new build.
4. Far stronger depth-of-field in the new version, with clear focus-defocus effect in motion.
5. Basic camera position and path is not the same, note relative visibility of building on periphery of screen.
Ironically the old version whilst "prettier" is clearly doing less work than the new one.
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Is think what you see is the comically high contrast level in the first picture. Yes it looks flatter now, but it's a daytime scene and in the first shot you can see parts of the scene already drowning in black. It might be the actual game, the video or the screenshot, but it's objectivly better now and has no performance impact. Other than that there's a light source missing above spidey's head, again no performance impact and probably a crutch to highlight the character better in the cutscene.
MayauMiao
Member
So does Microsoft.
RPGCrazied
Member
This always happens to games. At E3 when its being shown off for the first time its on a super powered gaming machine. When it gets closer to launch this happens. Doesn't bother me really, I care mostly about framerate.
Boss Mog
Member
To me it's the final version that has comically high contrast. If you look at the two gifs in
VulcanRaven
's post. The lighting is much more natural and realistic in the trailer version, whereas the final version is completely saturated and unrealistic looking. The details in the street below are really like night and day as well. It's just so obvious that there's been somewhat of a downgrade. But like I said I don't think it's a big deal at all and it doesn't affect gameplay whatsoever so the experience will pretty much be identical since when you're swinging around at high speed you really won't notice the details. My only issue is that the devs are insisting that there's no downgrade and that it even looks better. it's the equivalent of DICE saying people were uneducated because they didn't think hook ladies fit the WW2 theme of BFV. It's insulting your potential customers and taking them for fools. I would rather they just said "we had to make some minor sacrifices to assure great performance in all scenarios because that's what's most important to the overall experience". If they had said something like that, I would just say "cool" and not give it another thought.
Vawn
Banned
In other words, "I can't tell just by looking if I should be impressed with a game's visuals and performance or appalled by it. I'll wait for the professionals to tell me how to feel".
That seems to be the modern tactic for judging AAA games around here.
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visiblemode
Member
Every Sony first party game receives this exact same criticism, then the game comes out and we all drown in drool.
Are there some differences? Yes. Downgrades? Possibly. The big picture reality is that during optimization the performance floor will require compromises, but the performance ceiling will allow for improvements. It's part of the process. The results are always great. Why does everything have to turn into a conspiracy theory?
Are there some differences? Yes. Downgrades? Possibly. The big picture reality is that during optimization the performance floor will require compromises, but the performance ceiling will allow for improvements. It's part of the process. The results are always great. Why does everything have to turn into a conspiracy theory?
Gradly
Member
There is no downgrade. Show me the same lighting condition then point out the differences if any. lighting makes all the differences. Take a selfie under different lighting conditions and see how you look sharp sometimes and horrible in another but certainly, you are still the same not downgraded
If we talk about puddles, the game still has a lot of them in other areas etc, if they were all removed then we can complain.
If we talk about cars density then we must judge the map as a whole because these kind of things are randomly generated and one scene is not enough to cut it
If we talk about puddles, the game still has a lot of them in other areas etc, if they were all removed then we can complain.
If we talk about cars density then we must judge the map as a whole because these kind of things are randomly generated and one scene is not enough to cut it
MayauMiao
Member
Never said Digital Foundry will decide the game for me. What I really meant was to see DF do an in depth analysis on the graphical difference between the E3 and final product. I'm not gonna let some #puddlegate stop me from getting this game.
Vawn
Banned
I didn't mean to single you out. The Digital Foundry thing has been driving me crazy for years, as it seems so many people feel dependent on it to decide if a game looks good or not.
If it looks good to you before a DF video, that shouldn't change your mind. And if it doesn't impress you before, a DF video shouldn't change your mind either.
We are at a point where graphical improvements are less and less noticeable. I don't get why we sweat over small things in AAA games, but can still enjoy Undertale and Celeste.