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[Bogroll]

I think this turned into a "what color is the dress?" or "which way are the stairs going?" type situation.

I finally found a decent 4K source for both demos, and they do look very different in a lot of ways aside from puddles. Those puddles looked great from far off, but they look kinda like an oil slick from above. Either way, the texture detail look more refined on the old demo. The lighting looked more "cinematic" in the early trailer, more "gamey" in the new. I like the new look just fine, the game looks great, but that's a lot more than a ToD change, lol.

Some better 4K comparisons to hold over until DF gets a look at it...




---

If this is legit it's a downgrade,and i agree it's still going to look great.

 

[MayauMiao]

I think a lot of folks misinterpreted the "it's improved" post, by the way. Certain elements are indeed improved but that's not the whole story. I'll try my best to explain what I think has happened. It should make a lot of sense.

In depth analysis between PS4 and Pro I hope!

 

[CrustyBritches]

If this is legit it's a downgrade,and i agree it's still going to look great.

I personally think it looks better in the outdoor scenes. That infamous scene, not so much, but this looks better to me in the new version...
They had more blur in the 2017 version, but you can still see the effect the lighting has. Very clear...
2017:

2018:

This one is kind of up in the air*derp*...
2017:

The blur is switch this time around, but you get the picture...
2018:

I really like the look to this scene from the 2017 trailer. I wish I could find the matching 2018 version...

Beautiful game either way. Can't wait for dark10x to break it down. I love DF vids.

 

[Adry9]

The entire purpose of this downgrade discussion is to accuse Insomniac of misrepresenting what could be accomplished on PS4 Pro hardware.

If the changes that were made were not due to limitations, then essentially the argument becomes "I'm outraged because Insomniac made changes to the game that they thought would improve its appearance, and I disagree!"

The "they deceived us" part goes away and that's the whole point. If the changes were made using their best judgment how can that even begin to be challenged as unethical?

Personally I'll wait for proper analysis and look forward to trying it for myself. If it plays great and looks great I personally don't care which visual targets they missed and which they surpassed. The end product is my concern.

No, the purpose of this thread is to discuss if cutbacks were made or not. Hell, even to discuss if the game actually looks different because some people still say it looks the same and all differences are related to time of day changes.

I never said I was "outraged". I never said I wouldn't play or enjoy the game. Don't put words in my mouth that aren't mine.

 

[LostDonkey]

Instead blurry pics fool you.

Congrats.

Even in the 4K pics posted I can clearly see a downgrade. Everything is more blurred and less refined, from the actual Image quality to individual assetts and textures in each scene.

Its easy to see. Youre a fool if you cant. But I suppose I envy people like you who are blind to it really.

 

[dark10x]

Even in the 4K pics posted I can clearly see a downgrade. Everything is more blurred and less refined, from the actual Image quality to individual assetts and textures in each scene.

Its easy to see. Youre a fool if you cant. But I suppose I envy people like you who are blind to it really.

What media are you drawing that conclusion from because that is incorrect.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Dark10x: What media are you drawing that conclusion from because that is incorrect.

And some members ( X1 fans especially ) keep yelling, over and over.

 

[visiblemode]

No, the purpose of this thread is to discuss if cutbacks were made or not. Hell, even to discuss if the game actually looks different because some people still say it looks the same and all differences are related to time of day changes.

I never said I was "outraged". I never said I wouldn't play or enjoy the game. Don't put words in my mouth that aren't mine.

Sure thing, because *you* define the broader discussion.

It is considered a downgrade if it had been changed because it *had* to be changed. Period.

No one cares if you have some personal reasons to dislike artistically motivated changes. That is not what video game downgrade discussions are about. How would that even make sense?

"Hey everyone, I want to make some comments today about how Insomniac tricked us all two years ago by misleading us into believing they preferred a different shade of red."

It's not even slightly logical.

You seem to wish to define this discussion by your own terms in a precise way so as to ensure that regardless of what we learn today you were "never wrong" because in your eyes it still looks worse.

But guess what? This thread isn't entitled "Adry9's opinions about Spiderman." This discussion *is* however, more broadly about a super well worn subject which is an extension of the age old "bullshot" debate.

Routinely we used to get served utter nonsense screenshots of pixar-like quality levels and we all found it insulting. These past five years have been far better in this regard. Not perfect, but much better. That said, when it comes to Sony first party releases there is a pre-release uproar every time where they supposedly pulled a "bait-and-switch" and yet the game comes out looking incredible and we never hear about it again.

That's what this thread is clearly about. What you want it to be about is not of my concern.

 

[nowhat]

That said, when it comes to Sony first party releases there is a pre-release uproar every time where they supposedly pulled a "bait-and-switch" and yet the game comes out looking incredible and we never hear about it again.

*cough*Killzone 2*cough*

 

[FranXico]

*cough*Killzone 2*cough*

I mean, that was CGI disguised as gameplay. As good as the final game looked, it could never look as good as that trailer.

 

[nowhat]

I mean, that was CGI disguised as gameplay. As good as the final game looked, it could never look as good as that trailer.

Oh sure, and it wasn't ever intended for release either - it was an internal demo reel from Guerrilla (along the lines of "this is what we'd like to aim for") that just got included in the E3 reel thanks to some random Sony employee/exec, much to the horror of the studio. And agreed, anyone with a brain could see that it's not gameplay back then.

I was more commenting on the "we never hear about it again", because it just still keeps getting brought up (admittedly, I'm guilty of that here too).

 

[Adry9]

Sure thing, because *you* define the broader discussion.

It is considered a downgrade if it had been changed because it *had* to be changed. Period.

No one cares if you have some personal reasons to dislike artistically motivated changes. That is not what video game downgrade discussions are about. How would that even make sense?

"Hey everyone, I want to make some comments today about how Insomniac tricked us all two years ago by misleading us into believing they preferred a different shade of red."

It's not even slightly logical.

You seem to wish to define this discussion by your own terms in a precise way so as to ensure that regardless of what we learn today you were "never wrong" because in your eyes it still looks worse.

But guess what? This thread isn't entitled "Adry9's opinions about Spiderman." This discussion *is* however, more broadly about a super well worn subject which is an extension of the age old "bullshot" debate.

Routinely we used to get served utter nonsense screenshots of pixar-like quality levels and we all found it insulting. These past five years have been far better in this regard. Not perfect, but much better. That said, when it comes to Sony first party releases there is a pre-release uproar every time where they supposedly pulled a "bait-and-switch" and yet the game comes out looking incredible and we never hear about it again.

That's what this thread is clearly about. What you want it to be about is not of my concern.

The title is "Spider-Man graphics downgrade?". That's the question I've been discussing. You are the one treating every opinion that opposes yours as a supposed attack towards Insomniac and Sony part of some sort of Vendetta.

I'm tired of discussions in this forum getting turned into console wars bullshit by people from both sides that think everyone is taking part in this childish fight.

Also, the last two paragraphs are completely out of topic, don't blame me for past actions of other people.

EDIT: Once more, even if I think there's a downgrade I DON'T think it was part of some sort of plan by Sony and Insomniac of deliberately misleading everyone along the way. I said it before but apparently it wasn't clear enough.

 

[dark10x]

*cough*Killzone 2*cough*

Well, we already know the story behind that one. The management used an internal concept video on stage (same for Motorstorm) without informing the dev team. So Guerrilla (and Evolution Studios) was totally caught off guard. Those demos ended up making their jobs much harder which certainly isn't fun for them.

 

[visiblemode]

The title is "Spider-Man graphics downgrade?". That's the question I've been discussing. You are the one treating every opinion that opposes yours as a supposed attack towards Insomniac and Sony part of some sort of Vendetta.

I'm tired of discussions in this forum getting turned into console wars bullshit by people from both sides that think everyone is taking part in this childish fight.

Also, the last two paragraphs are completely out of topic, don't blame me for past actions of other people.

EDIT: Once more, even if I think there's a downgrade I DON'T think it was part of some sort of plan by Sony and Insomniac of deliberately misleading everyone along the way. I said it before but apparently it wasn't clear enough.

Firstly, I currently own an X, and Pro, and a Switch, so not a console warrior.

Secondly, It's disingenuous to even focus on the dictionary definition of "downgrade."

What's being discussed here is a "graphics downgrade." That term has *specific* connotations.

Google it if you're confused or new to the subject. The other response to the post you quoted really highlights that referencing a decade old downgrade discussion of which no one will ever let go.

 

[Adry9]

Firstly, I currently own an X, and Pro, and a Switch, so not a console warrior.

Secondly, It's disingenuous to even focus on the dictionary definition of "downgrade."

What's being discussed here is a "graphics downgrade." That term has *specific* connotations.

Google it if you're confused or new to the subject. The other response to the post you quoted really highlights that referencing a decade old downgrade discussion of which no one will ever let go.

I know what a downgrade related to graphics is.

And you keep putting other people's words in my mouth. Honestly, it's getting pretty tiring and all it does is giving importance to the same arguments you say you are tired of hearing.

 

[visiblemode]

I know what a downgrade related to graphics is.

And you keep putting other people's words in my mouth. Honestly, it's getting pretty tiring and all it does is giving importance to the same arguments you say you are tired of hearing.

Sure thing, pal. Have fun with your whole thing.

Personally, I'm looking forward to DF's analysis which will be released shortly. If they claim there was some sort of deception-level change to the game, l'll be more than happy to admit that "waiting for a full analysis" was the right decision.

 

[mitchman]

"Those expecting confirmation of a downgrade to Marvel's Spider-Man when assessing final code should probably look away now. "

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-marvels-spider-man-debunking-the-downgrade

Mic drop.

 

[visiblemode]

"Those expecting confirmation of a downgrade to Marvel's Spider-Man when assessing final code should probably look away now. "

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-marvels-spider-man-debunking-the-downgrade


Mic drop.

Yeah, for me, this is case closed. DF is top notch at what they do, and they were very clear about the result.

That footage looked incredible, I can't wait to play this game.

Edit: mitchman, my apologies, my browser is acting buggy and sluggish resulted in me typing within the quotation field. My bad.

 

[mitchman]

Quoting above fix, nvm this post!

 

[Hendrick's]

Manpower downgrade confirmed.

 

[-IZHAN-]

I say Graphics is not Everything in the game !
Look at the story, gameplay, game environment etc.

 

[mitchman]

I say Graphics is not Everything in the game !
Look at the story, gameplay, game environment etc.

I agree, but improved graphics compared to the E3 demo does help, so we got that.

 

[-IZHAN-]

I agree, but improved graphics compared to the E3 demo does help, so we got that.

thats what u get when u dont have a Nvidia RTX
jk !

 

[LostDonkey]

What media are you drawing that conclusion from because that is incorrect.

The 4K Gamersyde shots.

Difference is clear as day.

 

[dark10x]

The 4K Gamersyde shots.

Difference is clear as day.

Well, know we have the actual truth! Go check out the stills I've included in the article. Texture detail is not reduced in the slightly.

 

[Gradly]

A closer look at Scarlet Spider suit

 

[MrHeisenbird]

A closer look at Scarlet Spider suit

The Scarlet Spider and Homemade suits are my favorites. I'm comfortable with the advanced suit as well.

 

[LostDonkey]

Well, know we have the actual truth! Go check out the stills I've included in the article. Texture detail is not reduced in the slightly.

I never said it was.

I said it was more blurry and less refined than the original showing and looking at comparisons that is still the case. Image quality definitely looks softer and took a clear hit.

 

[dark10x]

I never said it was.

I said it was more blurry and less refined than the original showing and looking at comparisons that is still the case. Image quality definitely looks softer and took a clear hit.

"Took a clear hit"? I'm not sure how you can claim that when the rendering resolution is higher in the final game versus the demo. That sequence in the demo has pixel counts varying from 1584p to 1944p. The E3 demo is locked at 1440p. Textures are also of the same resolution.

If it looks softer it's due to stronger temporal AA or another post-effect.

Can you point to the specific examples you're talking about so I can understand where you're coming from?

 

[itsjustJEFF]

"Those expecting confirmation of a downgrade to Marvel's Spider-Man when assessing final code should probably look away now. "

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-marvels-spider-man-debunking-the-downgrade

Mic drop.

That still won't be good enough. Trust me, there are people in here who have already made up their mind and will see what they see. Do I think they're wrong? No. That's their opinion, it's their view. It does not matter if there is a video detailing the technical specs of a thing, it's their eyes they'll take it over someone else's eyes. Some call these people stubborn, but it's whatever, people will hold on to their opinions no matter what. It's not my job to convince others... cause honestly that's almost impossible.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That still won't be good enough. Trust me, there are people in here who have already made up their mind and will see what they see. Do I think they're wrong? No. That's their opinion, it's their view. It does not matter if there is a video detailing the technical specs of a thing, it's their eyes they'll take it over someone else's eyes. Some call these people stubborn, but it's whatever, people will hold on to their opinions no matter what. It's not my job to convince others... cause honestly that's almost impossible.

And sometimes they say they see something, but what that is, is a game not on their system and/or care for certain franchises. Let's be honest here.

 

[demigod]

Yep, and the shills and fanboys are working double shifts on the old astroturfing...

Alright, Magoo

Ha ha it's as clear as day

It's time for you to eat crow, why are you hiding from that other thread?

 

[The Skull]

Makes me wish I didn't sell my PS4. May be time to get a pro.........

 

[MilkyJoe]

It's time for you to eat crow, why are you hiding from that other thread?

What other thread? Do you think I sit on GAF all day and night and the next morning?

 

[DavidGzz]

That Scarlet Spider-man outfit is tiddies.

 

[demigod]

What other thread? Do you think I sit on GAF all day and night and the next morning?

Typical response, lol. You sure found this thread quick. It's ok to be wrong.

 

[LostDonkey]

Typical response, lol. You sure found this thread quick. It's ok to be wrong.

Did you watch Yong Yeas video?

His comparison pictures show that there was clearly a downgrade from the E3 footage in many areas.

 

[Gediminas]

Did you watch Yong Yeas video?

His comparison pictures show that there was clearly a downgrade from the E3 footage in many areas.

unless you are blind. then yes, "downgrade".

all in all, game's graphics is much better now and more realistic. insomniac did a good job in improving graphics.

 

[Adry9]

unless you are blind. then yes, "downgrade".

all in all, game's graphics is much better now and more realistic. insomniac did a good job in improving graphics.

The DF video says that the puddle scene from the famous screenshot looks "undoubtedly better" in the E3 trailer. I guess he's blind as well.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The DF video says that the puddle scene from the famous screenshot looks "undoubtedly better" in the E3 trailer. I guess he's blind as well.

You have the author of the video (and most of everyone else particularly fixated on just a single item at best or astroturfing at worst) saying that he does not think it was any case of overpromising to mislead people and there was an artistic and manpower related decision to allow the game to come out ... also that the game has not been "downgraded", but overall it has been improved graphically over any version shown before it.

Amazing that the attack was made over resolution ("game looks softer, resolution is surely down!!!") when the resolution has actually been improved and not just a tiny bit .

 

[phil_t98]

Well, we already know the story behind that one. The management used an internal concept video on stage (same for Motorstorm) without informing the dev team. So Guerrilla (and Evolution Studios) was totally caught off guard. Those demos ended up making their jobs much harder which certainly isn't fun for them.

did you not notice the effect of sliding in puddles is still there in the scene with the reduced puddles, there is another video on here that shows it.

great looking game btw and yes it is artistic changes and it will be personal to who likes what

 

[Adry9]

You have the author of the video (and most of everyone else particularly fixated on just a single item at best or astroturfing at worst) saying that he does not think it was any case of overpromising to mislead people and there was an artistic and manpower related decision to allow the game to come out ... also that the game has not been "downgraded", but overall it has been improved graphically over any version shown before it.

Amazing that the attack was made over resolution ("game looks softer, resolution is surely down!!!") when the resolution has actually been improved and not just a tiny bit .

I know, I watched the video. Did you? Because he also agreed the puddle scene looked better before.

And I never talked about resolution. Every time I come into this thread people try to put in my mouth words that aren't mine. I guess it's easier to argue against a predefined persona than actually read what people are saying.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Typical response, lol. You sure found this thread quick. It's ok to be wrong.

I feel for you

 

[Panajev2001a]

I know, I watched the video. Did you? Because he also agreed the puddle scene looked better before.

And I never talked about resolution. Every time I come into this thread people try to put in my mouth words that aren't mine. I guess it's easier to argue against a predefined persona than actually read what people are saying.

I did watch it .

 

[Gediminas]

The DF video says that the puddle scene from the famous screenshot looks "undoubtedly better" in the E3 trailer. I guess he's blind as well.

yes, one shot >>>>> whole game, wow, you really so pathetic? DF : Spider Man got upgrade in graphics. Insomniac : there was no downgrade apart from little artistic change of style. Many Many Reviewers : game looks better then before, there is no downgrade.

random warriors whom not even played the game : few puddles and one shot means everything and it is downgrade.

i am pity you and sad at the same time, that people go so low.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

I know, I watched the video. Did you? Because he also agreed the puddle scene looked better before.

And I never talked about resolution. Every time I come into this thread people try to put in my mouth words that aren't mine. I guess it's easier to argue against a predefined persona than actually read what people are saying.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your reasoning for continuing this argument is very stubborn. Right now, you're holding on to that one scene as your argument vs the entirety of the game and opinions of DF. DF has stated, like other have said, that the game is not downgraded and overall better than before and that the puddles aren't "downgraded" but just different now, the art reflected in them is no longer the same. This thread was about whether or not the game was downgraded, on a technical level... you're just coming off like you just want to be right.

If this thread was entitled "2017 Spiderman puddles look BETTER than release Sipiderman puddles"... I don't think you'd have much opposition.