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[YesNOnoNOYes]

Not prefacing my first statement with an "I think" doesn't imply an air of authority. I'm willing to have a level-headed discussion with someone who has an opposing point of view. Maybe you'll eventually grow into that.

So ... what did you mean with it, though:

"(I think) People are superficial and Asians are superficially feminine."

??????

how

wat

 

[GorillaJu]

Having lived in Asia for the past 7 years I can definitely see the reasons for this aversion. And it's not because Asian men aren't good people, it's that white and black men are raised in a way that makes them align better with what women want in a mate.

 

[shanshan310]

People are superficial and Asians are superficially feminine.

Where did this weird stereotype even come from? I mean, basically all of my male friends who grew up in Asia did military service. They're about as far from feminine as you can get. The Asian guys who did grow up here in Australia are no more or less feminine than White guys.

no ;.;

 

[cdyhybrid]

That's just how I talk. I'll try to ease up on the meaning to word ratio the next thread we both post in.

Who hurt you?

 

[S-Wind]

There's a lot I want to say but all I will say for now is that I so often hear women of descent say that they don't want to date Asian guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

However, you pretty much NEVER hear white girls say that they don't want to date white guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

WTF?

 

[GorillaJu]

Man... First devo, then fiction, and now backslashbunny. How many more derisively dismissive female authorities on life will GAF have to endure?

Fiction and backslashbunny are like the two least dismissive posters on Gaf of any gender. There tends to be an authoritative air when you're in the extreme minority whether you want there to be or not. But dismissive? That's not a word I'd ever use to describe those two.

 

[Nephtis]

Latino men not doing well with Asian women. ;_;

I am far more likely to get with a white woman. This so far has been true - I've only been with 2 Asian women ever - one Chinese, one Filipina. All of my other relationships have mostly been white girls and a few Latinas. There was an African American girl I was dating for a bit too but that didn't work out mostly because of her family, ha.

 

[GorillaJu]

My dating history until now, only counting 6+ month relationships that got physical, went white > Latino > black > half-thai > viet > Korean > Korean > Japanese > Japanese > Japanese > Japanese (wife)

Seems I found my niche

 

[Miletius]

There's a lot I want to say but all I will say for now is that I so often hear women of descent say that they don't want to date Asian guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

However, you pretty much NEVER hear white girls say that they don't want to date white guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

WTF?

That's because white guys are the majority, more diversity exists. Asians are stills a minority community, especially if you grow up outside of an enclave (like I did). So, when there's like 5 Asian boys are your school, chances are most of them remind you of your brother, in comparison to the 2000 white kids at your school.

Although to be fair I grew up switching schools, so that really only applied to about 1/2 of the places I went to. The other half had a lot of Asians, but still not as many as whites.

 

[S-Wind]

That's because white guys are the majority, more diversity exists. Asians are stills a minority community, especially if you grow up outside of an enclave (like I did). So, when there's like 5 Asian boys are your school, chances are most of them remind you of your brother, in comparison to the 2000 white kids at your school.

Although to be fair I grew up switching schools, so that really only applied to about 1/2 of the places I went to. The other half had a lot of Asians, but still not as many as whites.

Where I live, Vancouver, BC, Asians are the majority.

Yet I still hear that shit....

 

[Cuburt]

I was hoping to see some more discussion in this thread.

Seems to touch on several topics that remain in a complete blind spot to some people.

 

[voodoojohn]

I was hoping to see some more discussion in this thread.

Seems to touch on several topics that remain in a complete blind spot to some people.

Unfortunately, discussions die when any slightly controversial opinion is shouted down. It's this kind of denial of the realities around sex and race that makes progress so slow and painful.

(In my opinion...) heh

 

[Miletius]

Where I live, Vancouver, BC, Asians are the majority.

Yet I still hear that shit....

Seems like a terrible experience and I don't have a real answer for that. I would venture to guess part of it is because that there is a monolithic proto-Asian man that these guys all remind these girls of somewhere. But that isn't fair, most of these guys are diverse in different ways, and it's part of cultural whitewashing to assume all Asian guys have the same interests and behave in the same way.

 

[Not]

I think getting more lead Asian male actors portrayed as desirable on American TV and movies would be a huge fucking first step. But first you have to get the perpetuators of the problem (media execs) to stop using the problem itself as an excuse.

 

[Cuburt]

Unfortunately, discussions die when any slightly controversial opinion is shouted down. It's this kind of denial of the realities around sex and race that makes progress so slow and painful.

(In my opinion...) heh

If you are referring to your own post that's been getting quoted, I wouldn't consider a reductionist drive-by post like that conducive to actual discourse.

There are ways to state an opinion that may be controversial without saying it in a way as if to incite a reaction or confusion.

 

[Syriel]

I think, for whatever reason, an easy way to marginalize or mock someone is to compare them to the other gender. You see it in the way people are rude to thin women (you look like a boy! You don't look like a woman!), and you see it in the way people are rude to men (you're such a little bitch! What a pussy!)

When you combine that with the shorter and slimmer stature of some Asian men, you get an easy way to look down on them- "oh they're built like little girls tehehe." It really doesn't mean that much, and honestly is more indicative of the person that thinks that, then of Asian men.

Thin women are generally looked upon as the "ideal" in American culture and are generally seen as attractive. It's rare for a woman to be dismissed by a man for being thin as compared to being large. On the other hand, men are more likely to be dismissed by a woman for being too skinny versus being larger than the ideal (see the "Dad bod" conversation).

As far as Asian men tending to be shorter, that may be an aspect that works against them for all women as one near universal generalization among women (regardless of race) is being superficial when it comes to men and height.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Those girls that you are meeting are also after the most desirable person they can get and yes they stereotyped you but it's social conditioning. We can all sit here and get mad at people stereotyping others, but in the end it's personal preference.

If you are attracted to white girls, you can either go work overseas with an expat community where they are a lot more open to Asian guys and immediately bump up your social status as there's a lot more Asian people around.

Or you can work on yourself being the most confident guy, most highly valued (in all areas of life) person you can be. For most, people aren't willing to work on themselves.

Oh man I know a bunch of white girls that went to Japan and ended up marrying an Asian American dude. Not very many that ended up with native Japanese guys.

 

[grandwizard]

There's a lot I want to say but all I will say for now is that I so often hear women of descent say that they don't want to date Asian guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

However, you pretty much NEVER hear white girls say that they don't want to date white guys because it feels like they are dating their brother.

WTF?

It's a deflection so they don't have to own up to their own internalized racism. Admitting that you've been brainwashed and are playing right into the white media and white men's hands is not something people want to do. Everyone is affected by what we see day in and day out, and no one wants to be the sidekick. Every piece of media we see is marketing in some way, and that leaves certain demographics getting propped up and others getting rolled over.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Oh man I know a bunch of white girls that went to Japan and ended up marrying an Asian American dude. Not very many that ended up with native Japanese guys.

I don't think that's that odd though. Being in Japan (where the majority is obviously Asian) could very well have opened them up to dating an Asian guy, but I think it's reasonable to want to commit long-term to someone who perhaps had a bit more of a shared experience (growing up in the USA) and didn't present a potential language barrier.

 

[shanshan310]

Not to get too off topic, but I'm a thin chick and if I didn't hear comments like that so much, I wouldn't have mentioned it. I'm not the only one either, plenty of people here have also shared how they, or their thin girl partners, get shit for being thin.

Anyway, yeah. The being short thing kills men, especially. It's crazy-- on one hand, my father removed all dairy products from our household when I entered middle school because he was afraid I'd grow "too tall for an Asian guy," and on the other, my mom criticized all the men I brought home if they weren't much taller than me.

I don't know if being short has anything to do with the stereotype of being effeminate. I guess it certainly contributes to it, but I would argue that seeing roles played by Ken Jeong in Hangover or Community has been far, far more damaging to Asian masculinity than just the height.

I agree with that last bit especially. The representations of Asian Americans in the US media has been downright appalling honestly. Basically just turned into walking penis/short jokes.

That stuff about thin women ain't a lie either. The amount of times I've heard stuff like 'men prefer real women - and real women have curves and breasts. Thin women look like kids'. It's not so much a problem for me anymore, but some of my thinner friends have really bad body issues and it's really sad to see - especially when it can be impossible to change your weight and body type.

I can't believe that stuff about height though! I've never seen short dudes as being unattractive. If anything it's better. My partner is so tall we get neck cramps kissing :/

 

[voodoojohn]

If you are referring to your own post that's been getting quoted, I wouldn't consider a reductionist drive-by post like that conducive to actual discourse.

There are ways to state an opinion that may be controversial without saying it in a way as if to incite a reaction or confusion.

It wasn't meant to incite a reaction. That is genuinely my opinion, and I don't think I'm making any value judgment with it. Unless you think the most superficially masculine male is automatically the most appealing. Which wouldn't explain why black men aren't as successful as Asian women when it comes to interracial dating.

 

[Cuburt]

I can't believe that stuff about height though! I've never seen short dudes as being unattractive. If anything it's better. My partner is so tall we get neck cramps kissing :/

Just go on any online dating site and check out some profiles.

Women are much more open about their biases there.

 

[not psycho]

Thin women are generally looked upon as the "ideal" in American culture and are generally seen as attractive. It's rare for a woman to be dismissed by a man for being thin as compared to being large. On the other hand, men are more likely to be dismissed by a woman for being too skinny versus being larger than the ideal (see the "Dad bod" conversation).

As far as Asian men tending to be shorter, that may be an aspect that works against them for all women as one near universal generalization among women (regardless of race) is being superficial when it comes to men and height.

Yeah, this is definitely part of it. Asian women = thinner than average. Asian men = shorter than average (although this average is skewed by really tall places like Scandinavia). You don't have to go any farther than that for it to be a big factor.

As for actual features, I think there is barely any (if any) inherent effect there, instead the issue would be created by media, segregated communities, and similar. Even 10/10 looks:

Would probably not negate all the issues of interracial dating. A couple random thoughts:


1. The stereotype of being "outsiders."

If women care more about their families and communities when making dating choices, it makes sense they would be less likely to choose someone they see as an "outsider". So both the lack of Asians in the media, and also self-segregated communities in real life, would work against women of other races seeking out Asian men. Conversely, if men pursue women without worrying too much about family/community, this would not be a barrier to men of other races pursuing Asian women.

2. The stereotype of being good at math and science.

Oddly enough, math and science are stereotypically associated with men in the US. So in a sense, Asian men and women should be considered more masculine. However, for those of other races who are strongly drawn to math/science, it would provide a supposed point of similarity to Asians. If more men feel drawn to math/science, this stereotype would help explain more men having an affinity for Asians. The gender gap is shrinking in this area, so this can change in the future.

 

[Cuburt]

It wasn't meant to incite a reaction. That is genuinely my opinion, and I don't think I'm making any value judgment with it. Unless you think the most superficially masculine male is automatically the most appealing. Which wouldn't explain why black men aren't as successful as Asian women when it comes to interracial dating.

I think that stating an opinion in a matter of factly way that may be confusing without additional context is asking for people's reactions, which is why so many people responded by asking for clarification.

 

[SRG01]

While a large number of Asian men *are* deemed to be undesirable, there's a bit of the opposite too, from my experience. I dated a couple of Caucasian women in the past who have said that they were open to dating Asian men, but thought that Asian men weren't interested in them. Or to be more specific: skin color, body type, culture, etc. It doesn't seem to be a terribly common scenario by any standard, but it does exist I suppose.

 

[Mory Dunz]

It's probably due in part to asian guys being shorter compared to white ones.


I'm actually not joking.

 

[Cuburt]

2. The stereotype of being good at math and science.

Oddly enough, math and science are stereotypically associated with men in the US. So in a sense, Asian men and women should be considered more masculine. However, for those of other races who are strongly drawn to math/science, it would provide a supposed point of similarity to Asians. If more men feel drawn to math/science, this stereotype would help explain more men having an affinity for Asians. The gender gap is shrinking in this area, so this can change in the future.

Math and science is also associated with intellectualism and all the negative associations with being focused on intellect over emotion; nerdiness, social awkwardness, timidness, lacking of confidence, detachment from emotions.

Asian men are often seen as asexual or treated as such in the media. Either that, or Asian male sexuality is a joke.

In dating, I don't see how the stereotype could play towards any tangible advantage in perception.

 

[Timedog]

Man... First devo, then fiction, and now backslashbunny. How many more derisively dismissive female authorities on life will GAF have to endure?

I too am tired of all these women who wont put up with my mansplaining on a gaming forum, my refuge from my day-to-day life of feeling utterly powerless.

 

[gconsole]

It is not that complicated. White guy is the ideal type for many asian women because they look beutiful to them. Thats all. Blue eye , white skin, blonde hair and muscula body. There is no escape from their root bullshit. Just all about stereotypes. If asian woman find a very good looking asian men they will fall for it too.

 

[voodoojohn]

I too am tired of all these women who wont put up with my mansplaining on a gaming forum, my refuge from my day-to-day life of feeling utterly powerless.

My point is that being popular doesn't make you an authority. Women, especially in nerd circles, often get away with their opinions being accepted as gospel. Like, anything that runs contrary to what I think deserves a totally reasonable eye-roll. Especially if the eye-roll is being delivered by a pretty celebrity tumblr gif.

Your post that I quoted is actually quite in the same vein as popular people = smart.

 

[Ennosuke]

Basically I can confirm this. Here in Germany I live in the most international city and I see a lot of those white men/asian women combinations, but rarely the other way around.

My girlfriends best friend is living in thailand and she married a thai guy, so it can also be like this.

 

[Timedog]

My point is that being popular doesn't make you an authority. Women, especially in nerd circles, often get away with their opinions being accepted as gospel. Like, anything that runs contrary to what I think deserves a totally reasonable eye-roll. Especially if the eye-roll is being delivered by a pretty celebrity tumblr gif.

Your post that I quoted is actually quite in the same vein as popular people = smart.

This is barely coherent rambling, and not even the fun type of barely coherent rambling. I aint got time for that. Have a nice life.

 

[voodoojohn]

I recall a solid post on GAF which stated that vanity should be beneath a man and that what women are actually attracted to is confidence, success, and self-respect. As regards the self-respect factor, I think it's hard to maintain that as a minority male working within the mainstream system (ie, not rapping or playing basketball, but climbing the corporate ladder). One is forced to mold themselves to the predominant culture to get ahead, and that can often mean sacrificing a part of yourself, especially as a minority. On the flipside, those minority men who do maintain their self-respect by focusing effort outside the mainstream channels might not be considered as legitimately successful as your average doctor or engineer. It's a post-imperial, capitalist conundrum to be sure, and I think the key is to be realistic about what you can achieve, be honest about what you actually want, and become as successful as possible without sacrificing an ounce of your self-respect.

 

[Wazzy]

My point is that being popular doesn't make you an authority. Women, especially in nerd circles, often get away with their opinions being accepted as gospel. Like, anything that runs contrary to what I think deserves a totally reasonable eye-roll. Especially if the eye-roll is being delivered by a pretty celebrity tumblr gif.

Your post that I quoted is actually quite in the same vein as popular people = smart.

Dude why the fuck are you bringing up posters who aren't even posting in this thread? Do you just obsess over any chance to shit on them?

And of course you bring up their gender.

 

[voodoojohn]

Dude why the fuck are you bringing up posters who aren't even posting in this thread? Do you just obsess over any chance to shit on them?

And of course you bring up their gender.

I have never before in my history on GAF shat on women in general or on those three particular posters. My point is that most women have much more social cache in mainstream society than most men. This also happens to be a society which conflates popularity with authority. That is it.

 

[Wazzy]

I have never before in my history on GAF shat on women in general or on those three particular posters. My point is that most women have much more social cache in mainstream society than most men. This also happens to be a society which conflates popularity with authority. That is it.

I don't care what point you're trying to make. Bringing up three posters, two of which have not posted once in this thread and one hasn't even posted on GAF in months, is uncalled for and makes you look like a misogynist.

I bet you don't single out male posters here regarding their gender and position.

 

[voodoojohn]

If you think the word "feminine" has a negative connotation or that a person who is "derisive and dismissive" has inferior rank, then I don't know what to tell you.

If you agree that "feminine" has no value connotation, and that someone who is dismissive generally has superior rank, then you'd have to admit I have yet to really insult anyone in this thread. And that yes, some of you have had knee-jerk reactions to what I've said.

 

[anaron]

Man... First devo, then fiction, and now backslashbunny. How many more derisively dismissive female authorities on life will GAF have to endure?

the better question is, how many more derisively creepy, misogynistic men like yourself can gaf contain?

 

[Mortemis]

Man... First devo, then fiction, and now backslashbunny. How many more derisively dismissive female authorities on life will GAF have to endure?

devo hasn't even posted on gaf in a fat minute. how long will people hold grudges lmao

can't even imagine why someone would shit on someone like fiction and call her 'derisively dismissive'

 

[Wazzy]

If you think the word "feminine" has a negative connotation or that a person who is "derisive and dismissive" has inferior rank, then I don't know what to tell you.

If you agree that "feminine" has no value connotation, and that someone who is dismissive generally has superior rank, then you'd have to admit I have yet to really insult anyone in this thread. And that yes, some of you have had knee-jerk reactions to what I've said.

Nah. No ones had a knee jerk reaction. Your two posts were awful and that's really it. Now you're just trying to cover them up with excuses.

I think he just wants to logically argue about why logically, Asian people are feminine, and he's tired of all these silly emotional women that keep bringing in opinions, when he just wants to discuss the facts. If we could just control our emotional, dismissive side, we might be able to have a useful, logical discussion. About facts. STEM truths about super science and fact based evo psych theories. You know, the kind of stuff people like myself can't grasp, at all. Especially in discussions about stereotypes and representations and extremely STEM-y things.

There's absolutely no way an Asian American is going to be able to have any valid opinion on Asian American dating or Asian American representation and perception in media. No way someone that's taken classes in Asian American Studies is going to have anything credible to say at all.

Well duh, female posters can't possibly be right! Especially ones who are more personally connected to a situation they're commenting on. Nope. Must just be another women speaking out out of place.

 

[voodoojohn]

can't even imagine why someone would shit on someone like fiction and call her 'derisively dismissive'

Mainly because of the obnoxious tumblr gifs.

EDIT: Not accepting an opinion as gospel is not the same as showing spite for one. Anyway, good luck to all you ladies in reaching compromise in your relationships. Living with a copy of yourself might not be as fun ten years down the line as it is now.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Dat grudge though lol

Obsession level: Fanclub President

 

[Cuburt]

I'm convinced at this point the voodoojohn is trolling.

The phrasing in his more lengthy posts just screams insincerity.

 

[Wazzy]

Mainly because of the obnoxious tumblr gifs.

EDIT: Not accepting an opinion as gospel is not the same as showing spite for one. Anyway, good luck to all you ladies in reaching compromise in your relationships. Living with a copy of yourself might not be as fun ten years down the line as it is now.

Well at least we'll have relationships.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

Mainly because of the obnoxious tumblr gifs.

EDIT: Not accepting an opinion as gospel is not the same as showing spite for one. Anyway, good luck to all you ladies in reaching compromise in your relationships. Living with a copy of yourself might not be as fun ten years down the line as it is now.

but some of us have been in a long term relationship and still having loads of fun ?????????

 

[anaron]

devo sure is popular when her legend lives on for over eight months after her last post in threads she has absolutely nothing to do with

haha

it basically illustrates just how right she was about so much when there's still creepy weirdos that can not stop bringing her up.

 

[voodoojohn]

Eh, I'm not sure why someone felt that they were entitled to a "serious response" when they make a statement like, "this race is feminine," especially when there's a serious history and problem of that particular color's men being stereotyped and portrayed as effeminate, effectively emasculated by the country they live in.

It's even more confusing that the argument was, "well you're actually the bad person for thinking being like a girl is a bad thing," which is an even more tremendously stupid assertion when you consider the context of the opinion.

The fact that that same person brought up other posters not even involved in this conversation makes the entire "argument" suspect. Ending it on some ad hominem that insulting, and directly pointed to, a certain gender, is definitely very troll-y.

Really didn't ever warrant more than a dismissive, derisive gif

I was really planning on leaving this thread, but I must reiterate that I said East Asians are "superficially" feminine, and this matters because people are, unfortunately, superficial. I'm sure if Asian guys found a niche in Western society where they could be comfortable being themselves, they would easily become sex symbols despite the superficial "handicap." I have personally seen a number of cool/hot Asian dudes in Asia, who I imagine come off as cool/hot because they have positive qualities, they recognize they have those qualities, and they're not ashamed to act natural. It's just hard to do that and still feel safe and accepted in potentially hostile (foreign) territory.

I subjectively find the feminine figure to be more appealing and think we could all actually use less mass, more efficiency, and longevity anyway. I know I know, perhaps this does sound evo-psych, but I'm just being frank.

 

[voodoojohn]

I'm sorry if I said something derisive or dismissive, or upset you somehow. I try to frank but polite in all my interactions on the forums. I haven't even posted in this thread

Sorry, I think those roll-eye gifs just really rub me the wrong way. I regret including you and Devo in that comment and also regret not emphasizing the negative connotation of "superficial" in the previous comment.

 

[Not]

I think he just thinks since women are the minority on GAF, you guys are easily, and maybe even intuitively, categorizable.

Pretty lame. Try a little harder.

We went from discussing asian dating into women's social status within nerd circles. The fuck GAF.

You're welcome to contribute to the thread topic if you want to rather than derail it further by criticizing others for derailing it.

Not saying I'm at all happy with the current detour tho

 

[AnathemicOne]

We went from discussing asian dating into women's social status within nerd circles. The fuck GAF.