I don't think people relished on it. It was more of a, at least for me, if Kyoani doesn't stick with the same sex stuff they are going to do the exploitation stuff, when in reality it was portraying a more unfamiliar kind of dynamic that I misread and so went on to simplify people's interactions way too much.
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Spring Anime 2015 |OT| The Disappearance of YEAARRT!
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I don't think people relished on it. It was more of a, at least for me, if Kyoani doesn't stick with the same sex stuff they are going to do the exploitation stuff, when in reality it was portraying a more unfamiliar kind of dynamic that I misread and so went on to simplify people's interactions way too much.
What I feel he's trying to say is that there are more boxes than "straight", "gay", "bi" and "lipstick lesbian". So if these girls are intimate but are neither in nor will be in a relationship it doesn't automatically mean the show is fishing for the dollars of straight dudes who have a "girl on girl" fetish. I'm not watching the show so I can't directly comment on what its doing but humans in general have a tendency to "box" things becasuse it makes discussion easier - easier than they should be sometimes. That can be an issue.
In no way is thinking an anime character is sexy an issue. In no way whatsoever. All this real life stuff is whatever right now because I never said anything about real life. I'm talking about anime. They're drawings. And even when we're talking about real life, I still disagree that finding one specific point of a person sexy is wrong. Aesthetics are aesthetics, and I find what I find hot, hot. That's all there is to it, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I'm no expert or anything but last week I read a short informative manga called Honey & Honey about LBGT people in Japan.
Same-sex marriage isn't legal in Japan but there is a system called Koseki. Each citizen is registered in the Koseki system as part of a household which gives you some form of inheritance and legal power, so it's better then a lot of places.
Again I am no expert. If you are curious read Honey & Honey as it's pretty informative, short and easy to read and was written as a kind of introduction to LGBT culture in Japan
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think there's a disconnect between anime in general and Euphonium. I haven't watched the show specifically either, I just commented because he seemed to take exception to a specific post I made that I interpreted as him taking out of context. I can't really comment specifically on Euphonium.
My understanding is that same-sex marriage in Japan is given the same treatment many other issues are - they just don't talk about it.
Anime is real to me dimb, it's real to me.
Can someone give me the name of this camera effect on far away sources of light? Does it even have a name? I really liked how it was used here (and also appreciate its use in Life is Strange, but I have no idea what it's called).
i guess it depends on what you meant by exploitative, but if all one gets out of Eupho is something like this
then that's what i was referring to
victreeb3l
Member
DanMachi
New guy is cool. Mino-tan is cool too. Nothing really happened otherwise but it was a good chill episode after last weeks budget buster.
New guy is cool. Mino-tan is cool too. Nothing really happened otherwise but it was a good chill episode after last weeks budget buster.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
I believe this is true. I don't think there are any current political discussions about legalization.
j. j. abrams filter :^)
I don't think anyone said you finding a character sexy was an issue. We were talking about the fixation on the exotic people have.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Oh here we go, bokeh.
And the name is a loan word from Japan, how appropriate.
What exactly does this even mean right now. If they are fixated on the "exotic" thing that means they think it's hot or something. That's not a problem.
Cornbread78
Member
Little Busters ep. 9-13
Ok, I hate myself right now. I just wasted my couple hours of gamimg time as I got stuck on the last arc. It was total craziness, no, literally. I got lost in the story and what was going on since thete was no real "supernatural" elements to the show (well, outside of that nonsensicle, funny and creative foreshadowing episode in the middle of Nishizono arc) Anyhow, in these episodes you really dig deep into Nishizono's psyche and damn does it get thought provoking. I kind of figured it out when Naoe mentioned he
What didn't make sense was the whole
were they just using that as a metaphor? You could make it work there, but then they added the
I mean, didn't they cross the lines between mental and physical perception of someone there? Very thought provoking and definitely riveting, but I just gave up a gaming night because of that, lol. This is an excellent series so far as its tone is so much different than other shows..
My mind is still a little wonky right now.
Ok, I hate myself right now. I just wasted my couple hours of gamimg time as I got stuck on the last arc. It was total craziness, no, literally. I got lost in the story and what was going on since thete was no real "supernatural" elements to the show (well, outside of that nonsensicle, funny and creative foreshadowing episode in the middle of Nishizono arc) Anyhow, in these episodes you really dig deep into Nishizono's psyche and damn does it get thought provoking. I kind of figured it out when Naoe mentioned he
saw her in the city when thinking about her, but the personality differences kinda gave it away.
shadow not being there stuff
memory loss stuff when she wasn't there
My mind is still a little wonky right now.
It's good. You might have gotten a distorted view due to recent conversations, but it's mainly about high school band and music and I just love the detail they put in it.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
It's good
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
It's an excellent show. Episode 7 in particular is one of the best anime episodes of the year.
Cornbread78
Member
I mean, I've stayed away from this show and all the conversation on it so far, but is all this uproar basically because of that girl v girl scene the breaks the boundaries between friendship love and "romantic" love? I plan on watching the season all at once later..
Something like that. Although there is the additional context that we are so used to having LGBT relations being exploited for titillation than showing genuine human relation that some people like me assumed it had to be one or the other. Because what they showed in ep 8 was really great interaction, because of that, speaking for myself, I didn't want it to be 'fake' sort to speak. But of course, that is just compartmentalized binary thinking on human relations.
MikeHattsu
Member
Well, things are happening (slowly):
www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/05/0...-to-lobby-for-same-sex-marriage/#.VWk_M_NBtAj
Joe Molotov
Member
Who's the best girl in Akiba's Trip? The first time it made me choose, I picked Kati for the lulz. Maybe I should pick tsundere childhood friend.
No, finding fictional constructs attractive isn't problematic (I'm restricting this conversation to grown ass men and women characters) - we do it all the time. Preferences, to a degree, isn't an issue either, we all have particular attributes (physical, personality, etc.) that we value more than others. What is the problem is the "othering" that occurs when you reduce people or constructs to individual characteristics, especially race and skin color. "Exotic" is pretty much the culmination of that. It's the same root that gives rise to the "Magic Negro" trope. Try going up to any actual woman and saying stuff like you find them hot solely/mostly because they are Asian, or have a particular shade of skin, etc. If they don't awkwardly play along with you in fear of retribution, you're going to get slapped in the face or worse. There has been a lot of literature written on the subject (here's like the first I pulled off Google)
So its like an educational manga about real life Japan? I'll see if I can find it.
They......they should fix that then. Not talking about stuff has pretty much never solved any problem in the history of human civilization.
Tohko is best girl 4 eva
Femmeworth
Banned
A Black Falcon
Member
To say a bit more about the subject of yuribait, a lot of shows kind of are in a no-win situation. I mean, what are their options?
(Note: This would mostly work perfectly in reverse with yaoibait and guys, I think)
What most shows do: Have most of the girls (or guys) who are in the main cast be straight, but ... bi-curious, I guess you could put it, so that they have both yuri/yaoibait and also romance with the opposite-sex main character Alternatively, have a single-gender cast where the yuri/yaoi-bait is the only romance-hinting you get.
The problem: For either of those situations, that leads to a very unrealistic number of gay/bi characters versus reality, and creates a situation where there is lots of same-sex stuff in the series purely for fanservice reasons. I often like some of these shows, for instance Saki's a favorite of mine, but it sure does have an unrealistic proportion of girls interested in other girls.
But what's the alternative? You don't want them to mostly just be straight, that'd be boring and hurt your ratings! Few girls groping eachother, yuri-goggles incidents, etc? Who'd want that?
So, in the fanservice goes, even if it makes no logical sense.
I don't want no yuri in anime; I like the stuff. I would just rather see more plausible characters, and less stereotyped stupidity. For instance, "Every single girl in the main cast just happens to have never had a boyfriend" is such a comically convenient thing so many animes like to do, for instance... I know why (they must stay pure!) but it's silly. (My issue here is the "every single" part.) I mean, I like fantasy in the setting, events, etc, but the extreme unrealism of the CHARACTERS in anime is an issue I have with it that just keeps coming back.
Of course, the other alternative would be to make a higher-quality show which actually takes its subject matter seriously, is well-written, etc (Wandering Son and such), but such things are incredibly uncommon because it's the otaku base who keep the industry afloat, not people who want something that actually respects the subject matter it's covering.
(Note: This would mostly work perfectly in reverse with yaoibait and guys, I think)
What most shows do: Have most of the girls (or guys) who are in the main cast be straight, but ... bi-curious, I guess you could put it, so that they have both yuri/yaoibait and also romance with the opposite-sex main character Alternatively, have a single-gender cast where the yuri/yaoi-bait is the only romance-hinting you get.
The problem: For either of those situations, that leads to a very unrealistic number of gay/bi characters versus reality, and creates a situation where there is lots of same-sex stuff in the series purely for fanservice reasons. I often like some of these shows, for instance Saki's a favorite of mine, but it sure does have an unrealistic proportion of girls interested in other girls.
But what's the alternative? You don't want them to mostly just be straight, that'd be boring and hurt your ratings! Few girls groping eachother, yuri-goggles incidents, etc? Who'd want that?
So, in the fanservice goes, even if it makes no logical sense.
I don't want no yuri in anime; I like the stuff. I would just rather see more plausible characters, and less stereotyped stupidity. For instance, "Every single girl in the main cast just happens to have never had a boyfriend" is such a comically convenient thing so many animes like to do, for instance... I know why (they must stay pure!) but it's silly. (My issue here is the "every single" part.) I mean, I like fantasy in the setting, events, etc, but the extreme unrealism of the CHARACTERS in anime is an issue I have with it that just keeps coming back.
Of course, the other alternative would be to make a higher-quality show which actually takes its subject matter seriously, is well-written, etc (Wandering Son and such), but such things are incredibly uncommon because it's the otaku base who keep the industry afloat, not people who want something that actually respects the subject matter it's covering.
I dunno what type of bonehead would do that type of shit, but I would not.
I would obviously keep something like that to myself.
Basileus777
Member
Shion has the only good route.
See? You had nothing to worry about! ^_^
Cornbread78
Member
Generalizing a bit here, but basically the difference between an earnest true lesbian relationship with true emotions being depicted rather than a "hot lesbian" relationship that is referenced and shoe-horned into a show with lots of stereotypes? I can see the issue from both sides on this one; I've been listening to my buddies emotionally charged story of his pending divorce with his husband. I've gotten many opinions from him over the years in regards to the gay community/ perception/ lifestyle, etc. I can definitely see why it is such a hot topic since personal experiences and opinions can very greatly.
Cornbread78
Member
To say a bit more about the subject of yuribait, a lot of shows kind of are in a no-win situation. I mean, what are their options?
(Note: This would mostly work perfectly in reverse with yaoibait and guys, I think)
What most shows do: Have most of the girls (or guys) who are in the main cast be straight, but ... bi-curious, I guess you could put it.
The problem: It leads to a very unrealistic number of gay/bi characters versus reality, and creates a situation where there is lots of same-sex stuff in the series purely for fanservice reasons. I often like these kinds of shows (Saki's a favorite of mine!), but it sure is an unrealistic proportion of girls interested in other girls.
But what's the alternative? You don't want them to mostly just be straight, that'd be boring and hurt your ratings!
So, in the fanservice goes, even if it makes no logical sense.
Of course, the other alternative would be to make a higher-quality show which actually takes its subject matter seriously, is well-written, etc (Wandering Son and such), but such things are incredibly uncommon because it's the otaku base who keep the industry afloat, not people who want something that actually respects the subject matter it's covering.
Yes, great points, I can wait to marathon the show at the end if the season to see how they handle it..
Yeah, the actual issue being that due to that problem sometimes one can go too far when viewing shows through that lens. Sometimes what is presented is complicated and doesn't have to fit a boxed category.
It's a thing people actually do (especially dropping "exotic" and its synonyms around) :/
Do you at least understand how that mentality can be problematic in a way other preferences might not be?
To say a bit more about the subject of yuribait, a lot of shows kind of are in a no-win situation. I mean, what are their options?
(Note: This would mostly work perfectly in reverse with yaoibait and guys, I think)
What most shows do: Have most of the girls (or guys) who are in the main cast be straight, but ... bi-curious, I guess you could put it.
The problem: It leads to a very unrealistic number of gay/bi characters versus reality, and creates a situation where there is lots of same-sex stuff in the series purely for fanservice reasons. I often like these kinds of shows (Saki's a favorite of mine!), but it sure is an unrealistic proportion of girls interested in other girls.
But what's the alternative? You don't want them to mostly just be straight, that'd be boring and hurt your ratings!
So, in the fanservice goes, even if it makes no logical sense.
Of course, the other alternative would be to make a higher-quality show which actually takes its subject matter seriously, is well-written, etc (Wandering Son and such), but such things are incredibly uncommon because it's the otaku base who keep the industry afloat, not people who want something that actually respects the subject matter it's covering.
Look, I know what the phenomenon you're talking about is, and what you're describing has literally nothing to do with the scene and characters in question.
I get that the conversation might make you think that this is somehow related to whatever harem faux-lesbians you've encountered, but it's a really different thing. Reading your post baffles me.
I didn't think decent writing would confuse people so much.
Soma is a really great anime. It reminds me so much of Yakitate Japan.
Actually, I havent posted nearly as much as the past. This is a low post count for me.
Rolling Girls is fun but most strong in the first half. It really goes out with a whimper and never reaches the potential we hoped for.
Soma and Show By Rock!
Looks very nice! The US LEs are nice as well, though I got the more plain artbox one instead of the the dumb hat ones.
This is how I feel about it. the beauty of interpetation. Both sides could be correct, but theres evidence for either side. Only one is right and nobody knows which. But DOES IT MATTER?
They will.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Instant preorder
They did good coloring best girl Yui.
Might be interested in purchasing some apples too.
Joe Molotov
Member
I have learned stuff from these kind of conversation about media, and I do think media is more important than people give it credit for, so I don't mind the discussion. Heck, I am cool about it. As far as I can tell everyone here is pretty cool. I love all these different perspectives. I am a gigantic nerd and love arguing, though, so I get it's not everyone's cup of tea.
looks like the thread's getting locked but not because we're about to hit 20k posts.
phoenix296
Member
Maybe I should rewatch this episode. After my first viewing I thought it was forgettable.
Save 'N Quit
Banned
At least have a little faith in me when I say I've never posted NSFW figure pictures in anime/manga threads in the past.
A Black Falcon
Member
I wasn't talking about that show in specific, I was talking about anime in general. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
DanMachi 8
Level 2? Did they steal this leveling system from Baldur's Gate?
Level 2? Did they steal this leveling system from Baldur's Gate?
While I agree that sometimes its like that for people, sometimes it also means a tanned white girl. Thats a known preference as well. Its not always about race. Tan girls in anime often have fun personality types, which is a character trait and makes them fun characters to me. Like Choi in Tamako Market. Shes a bit quirky and I think thats a fun idea for a character.
Exactly. This didnt even surface until that scene happened. Although there are a few signs of it in previous episodes if you look closely enough.
But again, does it really matter anyway?
All plastic girls are verboten now!
Save 'N Quit
Banned
But it was fine when I posted a girl figure in another thread 2 days after that thread closed!
I'm always taken aback when I see characters in anime/manga who just happen to be LGBT. Obviously you can't always have decently written shows, and even then you don't need to have the show be about LGBT issues to have an LGBT character. Ultimately, I'd like it if we didn't just need series that fall into categories of yuri or BL to have LGBT characters show up, and it's how the community at large will have more acceptance of when they do show up.
This is partially why I don't mind the Euphonium stuff. It might be there to latch onto a fandom interest, but I find the relationship between the leads more cute (noting that I am not in the target audience for this) than pandering, and I think that's a step in the right direction.
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