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Spoilers Star Wars IX Open Spoilers, Leaks, Trash Talk, etc. (***Warning SPOILERS***)

Oct 3, 2019
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Rey actually killing the good guys with force lightning? Not happening.

The real question is, which will be worse: the plot of Episode IX, or the plot of Death Stranding?
 
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prag16

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Rey actually killing the good guys with force lightning? Not happening.

The real question is, which will be worse: the plot of Episode IX, or the plot of Death Stranding?
The leak say she kills bad guys with force lightning. Not good guys.

EDIT: Kind of an aside... that dialogue from one of the new clips... "They fly now??... They fly now." 🤮
 
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Animagic

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... And no, Jason from MSW.. this trilogy not having a planned framework isn't the same thing as the OT not having a planned framework. And the PT obviously DID have a planned framework, so don't give me that nonsense about this ALWAYS being the way Star Wars is done. He's too much of a company man sometimes..
To the bolded...

the preferred nomenclature is shameless corporate shill
 
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#Phonepunk#

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ST feels like what if you made TFA but you had the Momento disease then u go to sleep then u wake up and see “Snoke” and “Kylo” tattoos on your arm and then made TLJ then u go to sleep wake up fresh again u see notes etc.

Like if the OT was made by one guy the ST is made by a guy who can’t remember anything in the past even new memories he created.
 
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cryptoadam

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Just wondering if I missed something, but did Luke ever mention that Rey is to old to train as a Jedi? this was a kinda big point in the OT and PT. It was even retarted in PT because Anakin was like 10 (more evidence that Anakin should of been a teen in Phantom Menace).

And rumors have it that Leia was trained by Luke which again she is too old.

So did they throw out the whole too old to be trained as a Jedi thing that was such a big deal in the OT/PT?
 
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prag16

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Figured it wouldn't be long until the next doomcock video dropped. I guess they were out of options... the explanation for Palpatine's return was so bad they had to just cut it, without time to replace it with anything worthwhile. Great. As expected they had to cut the Millennium Falcon destruction, because obviously. At least it sounds like they're gonna shit on the "Rey is nobody and it's so refreshing and amazing that she's a nobody" crowd... unless they cut the grandfather thing last minute too. I guess this'll at least be less terrible than if they had gone with that previous rumored cut. But only marginally.

It's unfathomable how much of a mess they've made of this trilogy. But not because the trilogy is actually a mess... only because something something patriarchy.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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So did they throw out the whole too old to be trained as a Jedi thing that was such a big deal in the OT/PT?
simple, training itself doesn't matter because:

1. you don't need training, you just need to BELIEVE. using the force has nothing to do with physical effort.
2. just don't use too much of it or THE EFFORT WILL KILL YOU like it did Luke.

so yeah it's somewhere between "no skill required" and "be careful you don't off yourself"
 

cryptoadam

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simple, training itself doesn't matter because:

1. you don't need training, you just need to BELIEVE. using the force has nothing to do with physical effort.
2. just don't use too much of it or THE EFFORT WILL KILL YOU like it did Luke.

so yeah it's somewhere between "no skill required" and "be careful you don't off yourself"
Or are they trying to tell us that males need to be trained at a young age but females can be trained at any age ?

I wonder if the no sex/love rule applies to WAMANZ as well or only Male Jedi.
 

#Phonepunk#

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IMO Jedi never had a no sex law, that isn't part of the movies. Obi Wan is totally chill w Anakin and Padme (until things get weird). it seemed to be more a political thing, a la a congressperson sleeping with an intern or something. Anakin's fall wasn't because he fell in love, it was because he became so possessive of that love, the possession was his dark side Achilles heel, that same possession that enraged him into slaying Tuscan raiders after the death of his mother. his caring for those he loves was his biggest weak spot, for he became too emotionally entangled, and unable to control his naturally considerable powers.

the training age thing, it never bothered me. maybe Yoda is old school, the Jedi texts have a strict training regiment, he teaches those classes on his own dime, even tho Obi Wan is shown to be more liberal in his approach, starting with teaching a post-teen Luke in the very first movie. this is true of real religion, the followers approach the texts, dogma, etc. in different ways. religion is a living thing played out through it's adherents. the PT demonstrated this in a cool way by having Yoda, Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Mace Windu, etc. all have different, personal approaches. this is why they had Jedi councils at all, they didn't all think the same.

it is really stunning to think that Rey will KILL Kylo Ren like he killed Han Solo, but then she will FORCE JESUS him back to life. this is just universe breaking right here. forget Mary Sue, she is now Holy Mary, Mother of Christ. when Vader died Luke couldn't bring him back to life but now Holy Rey will heal thy Benjamin, wipe away those tears dear sweet child, sweet little genocidal baby.
 
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NickFire

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Just wondering if I missed something, but did Luke ever mention that Rey is to old to train as a Jedi? this was a kinda big point in the OT and PT. It was even retarted in PT because Anakin was like 10 (more evidence that Anakin should of been a teen in Phantom Menace).

And rumors have it that Leia was trained by Luke which again she is too old.

So did they throw out the whole too old to be trained as a Jedi thing that was such a big deal in the OT/PT?
If they did that would make perfect sense to me.

1) The Jedi being stuck in their ways helped lead to their downfall. An argument could be made that had they done so, Anakin would never be in a position to end them. But I would argue that Palpatine would have just ended up finding him and then turning him from such a young age that there would be no good to go back to at the end of RotJ.

2) Had Yoda and Obi-Wan stayed true to the belief that Luke was too old, the Empire would never have ended.

3) Luke and the force ghosts learned that counting someone out as too old was dumb, as proven by Luke.


Now I'm going back to my possible island of 1 (where people get excited by Rey being either a Palpatine (first choice) or Skywalker (almost as good)).
 

cryptoadam

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If they did that would make perfect sense to me.

1) The Jedi being stuck in their ways helped lead to their downfall. An argument could be made that had they done so, Anakin would never be in a position to end them. But I would argue that Palpatine would have just ended up finding him and then turning him from such a young age that there would be no good to go back to at the end of RotJ.

2) Had Yoda and Obi-Wan stayed true to the belief that Luke was too old, the Empire would never have ended.

3) Luke and the force ghosts learned that counting someone out as too old was dumb, as proven by Luke.


Now I'm going back to my possible island of 1 (where people get excited by Rey being either a Palpatine (first choice) or Skywalker (almost as good)).
It makes sense and the whole rule was stupid in the first place, but they never seemed to explain it. And it was a huge plot point in Phantom menace, and a slightly less plot point in ESB.

I guess just more stuff from the OT/PT thrown in the trash heap along with Han and Luke and soon to be Falcon/Chewie/R2/C3PO
 
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NickFire

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I guess just more stuff from the OT/PT thrown in the trash heap along with Han and Luke and soon to be Falcon/Chewie/R2/C3PO
Damn C cryptoadam - that last sentence could be interpreted as an accusation that I am desperate for this movie to make sense despite the diarrhea that's been spewed all over my childhood favorites. Now, if you meant it that way, you'd be correct.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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1) The Jedi being stuck in their ways helped lead to their downfall. An argument could be made that had they done so, Anakin would never be in a position to end them. But I would argue that Palpatine would have just ended up finding him and then turning him from such a young age that there would be no good to go back to at the end of RotJ.
i see the Sith as a sort of Fallen form of the Jedi. sort of the like devils are the fallen form of angels. he does not have the power of a Jedi, he must sort of rely on them, thus the conspiracy, he is given the title of Emperor through the Jedi.

had the Jedi not picked up on Anakin, I doubt the Emperor would have found this kid on a random nowhere planet. he was manipulating the Jedi and the Senate while Anakin was invited into this elite political circle and that is how he was discovered. Qui Gon bent the rules a number of times, including changing the results of a dice roll, in order to have Anakin be trained, which is something the Jedi council, including Yoda, was against. Obi Wan goes against Yoda in the OT just like he did in the PT. he trains the unsanctioned, prophesied Skywalker of both generations, in honor of his fallen master Qui Gon's unorthodox wishes. it is nice that Obi Wan somewhat redeems himself for Vader by training Luke.

had Qui Gon not been so rebellious (and through his pupil Obi Wan) it is possible Anakin became a successful racer on a backwater planet and that's it. the only reason the Emperor finds him is that the Jedi find him first. FWIW i think people give the Emperor too much credit. politicians are not that smart, manipulating your way into eternal war is probably not that difficult. as a professional conman he likely tells a lot of lies, yet people take what he says as truth.

don't believe his lies.
 
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prag16

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Not sure if this guy is credible or not but I will post it anyways

Already posted and discussed a bit upthread. Pretty sure this guy has reported credible inside info in the past. And in the case of IX, a lot of what he reported earlier has since been corroborated by MSW and others (plus is consistent with all official footage). Probably not much reason to doubt him as of now. But regardless, it sounds like the film was still being massaged in the cutting room possibly as recently as a couple WEEKS ago (complete insanity), so with so many cuts allegedly floating around, it's still possible we could see some surprises come release night.

Anybody know if this talk of a week-early Japanese release is true? I couldn't find anything quickly googling. If so, of course the entire plot will 100% leak beforehand, probably with some low quality cam torrents floating around too. That would seem to be an odd move from Disney to release a week early in one territory, even if it's a limited preview, especially after how close to the vest they held the Baby Yoda surprise.
 
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I love me some Star Wars and appreciate the lore of years past, but to me, that is not the big issue with the ST. The reason why the ST sucks ass is mostly due to the fact that the actual plot is straight up bad.

I was talking about this with a friend a few days ago over some brewskis. When you look at what's happened over the course of 5 hours or so, not that much has actually happened with impact. TLJ and (to a lesser extent) TFA are movies where a bunch of shit happens, but nothing really happens.

If these leaks are true it looks like ROS continues the trend.
 
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Tritroid

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I love me some Star Wars and appreciate the lore of years past, but to me, that is not the big issue with the ST. The reason why the ST sucks ass is mostly due to the fact that the actual plot is straight up bad.

I was talking about this with a friend a few days ago over some brewskis. When you look at what's happened over the course of 5 hours or so, not that much has actually happened with impact. TLJ and (to a lesser extent) TFA are movies where a bunch of shit happens, but nothing really happens.
Exactly this. The prequels got a ton of shit back in the day mainly because of the dialogue & script, but the overarching plot and story was still there and continually being developed, especially the political subplot with the Old Republic. That's why once Episode 3 dropped, SO many plot devices reaching conclusion seemed super satisfying, a prime example being when Palpatine finally declares the reorganization of the Republic into the Empire to the senate (that scene still gives me chills to this day).

Again, some dialogue and acting almost ruined these scenes (see: "You're breaking my heart!"), but all in all the overall plot of the PT is far and beyond anything the ST tries to establish. The ST just feels like a bunch of people trying to throw shit at a wall to see what sticks.
 
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shoplifter

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Anybody know if this talk of a week-early Japanese release is true?
There are Dec 13 showings scheduled here in Columbus at our big 'art' theater. I decided not to get a ticket since they're all general admission and I didn't want to fight with college students to find a decent seat. I guess we'll find out what is in the film shortly.


edit: and yes, Doomcock has been relatively reliable with sci-fi TV and film info. Seems like he has a few trustworthy sources at the various studios.
 
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prag16

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There are Dec 13 showings scheduled here in Columbus at our big 'art' theater. I decided not to get a ticket since they're all general admission and I didn't want to fight with college students to find a decent seat. I guess we'll find out what is in the film shortly.


edit: and yes, Doomcock has been relatively reliable with sci-fi TV and film info. Seems like he has a few trustworthy sources at the various studios.
Review embargo is up the morning of 12/18. Surprised they'd have public showings 5 days prior. Odd choice. They're going to let unpredictable word of mouth get out in front of predictably glowing critical praise (the opposite happened with TLJ, which worked out well for them).
 

#Phonepunk#

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I feel that the PT were full of good ideas executed poorly while the ST is nothing but bad ideas and reheated leftovers from the OT executed even worse.
The leftovers are the worst. It’s like they couldnt think of anything so they went through George’s trash and used his rejected ideas from 40 years ago. Even Rian’s “brave and bold” idea to have Luke be a hermit is lifted from a rejected early version of the first movie. Digging in George’s trash, these people. No wonder the main hero is someone who literally does the same.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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“JJ, you are the ultimate hack with not a single original idea in your head.”

“I know”

The good inside him is something he can no longer ignore. He loves his father.

yes he loves the man he murdered in cold blood! now he’s good! because he hallucinated that his victim forgave him!

Are they serious with this??? This has to be the stupidest redemption I have ever heard of, on the level of “Charles Manson had a dream, Sharon Tate is cool with him now.”
 
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prag16

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This is obviously fake. These sources “review” is a vague statement on top of vague statement.

Why don’t these sources ever just spoil the film?
I mean, they did? What was so "vague"? To me it sounds like they spoiled a TON of stuff, most of which is bad and not worth avoiding the spoilers.

Are they serious with this??? This has to be the stupidest redemption I have ever heard of, on the level of “Charles Manson had a dream, Sharon Tate is cool with him now.”
Yep. This is dumb. We can only hope it comes off less dumb in the film, in context.
 
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shoplifter

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Review embargo is up the morning of 12/18. Surprised they'd have public showings 5 days prior. Odd choice. They're going to let unpredictable word of mouth get out in front of predictably glowing critical praise (the opposite happened with TLJ, which worked out well for them).
All I know is that it's up and scheduled on their website, with the showings sold out and I could buy tickets for it on 10/21 when they went for sale. I thought it was weird as hell too.
 

MisterHero

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“JJ, you are the ultimate hack with not a single original idea in your head.”

“I know”

The good inside him is something he can no longer ignore. He loves his father.

yes he loves the man he murdered in cold blood! now he’s good! because he hallucinated that his victim forgave him!

Are they serious with this??? This has to be the stupidest redemption I have ever heard of, on the level of “Charles Manson had a dream, Sharon Tate is cool with him now.”
Unconditional love is a valid concept, and they seem to be trying to make it work here. Han already forgave Ben in TFA. All fantasy can lend to it the idea of unconditional love is that it gets tested in increasingly sadistic ways.

I will give JJ credit for how he handled Han in that TFA scene: Han doesn't hold himself to a standard like Luke or a Jedi would, and he doesn't he need morally righteous reasons to stop loving Ben. He does it because it's what Ben needs.

Now if Ben killed Leia before he got to Han or Luke, things might be different. But he didn't kill her.

Now if Ben were to surrender for the destruction of the Hosnian system, etc. that might be interesting. Too bad the writers can only think in terms of bad now = bad forever.
 

#Phonepunk#

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Now if Ben killed Leia before he got to Han or Luke, things might be different. But he didn't kill her.
I mean he was last seen shooting a Death Star tech laser beam at his mom and her friends before Luke stepped in. Earlier in the film when he didn’t fire his gun the army he is with nearly killed her so that entire thing is a bullshit fakeout. His entire thing is, sad Ben, everyone must die because they are too good for him, and he gets to still play light or dark even when killing or trying to kill people. Besides “he only killed one parent” is no excuse.

Han Solo dies because the actor wanted out cos he knew this would be a shit show.

Ben has already fallen before the start of TFA. All the “pull to the light” crap is just the new guys failing to pull off the writing.
 
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GV82

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Well there’s that dagger right there from the leaks in the latest TV spot.

Found the spot on Reddit here

 
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MisterHero

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I mean he was last seen shooting a Death Star tech laser beam at his mom and her friends before Luke stepped in. Earlier in the film when he didn’t fire his gun the army he is with nearly killed her so that entire thing is a bullshit fakeout. His entire thing is, sad Ben, everyone must die because they are too good for him, and he gets to still play light or dark even when killing or trying to kill people. Besides “he only killed one parent” is no excuse.

Han Solo dies because the actor wanted out cos he knew this would be a shit show.

Ben has already fallen before the start of TFA. All the “pull to the light” crap is just the new guys failing to pull off the writing.
Well that's what I mean by testing unconditional love unreasonably.

"But he killed entire planets!" Yeah, that would make him irredeemable, but that's how strong family bonds work. None of that matters to his family, because even if for no other reason, he can still stop the First Order and further destruction.

I forgot to add though, just because fantasy can magnify how evil a character is, it can also allow more room for forgiveness and redemption.

I'm trying to be diplomatic with my criticism. I think everyone's well-aware of my disagreement with turning the Skywalkers into Hitlers where their name/blood was removed from history in the first place. Except apparently a person adopts their name, despite how evil said name is. ;p

Edit: this is a series that advertises itself with space nazi Stormtrooper action figures. No one is so bad that they can't be an action figure. ;p
 
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ZehDon

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Well I'll be damned - dagger confirmed? That's far too specific to be a coincidence. I was out after the The Last Jedi nuked the DT, but I've gotta be honest: I was secretly hoping that JJ had one great movie in him, and that this would be it. That we'd get at least one honest-to-good movie from this cluster-fuck. But... fuck me, if those leaks are actually correct, this is Game of Thrones Season 8 - 2. Strap in folks: here there be dragons...
 

-Arcadia-

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I hope this is either a fantastic movie, or a fantastic failure that goes full retard. As TLJ showed, the latter still makes for amazing entertainment, as the thing gets roasted for months on end.

Worst case scenario is JJ making a mediocre film I can neither enjoy, nor really mock.
 

DoctorEkkoUK

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The only two issues I had with TFA was 1. ANOTHER FKIN DEATHSTAR, seriously this was just stupid and also making it out of a planet when it was supposedly built by the first order who are meant to be an offshoot of the empire and not as powerful as the galactic empire at their prime who had millions of slaves and resources at their disposal. and it was treated like it was just nothing. Oh the first order up to their old tricks hollowing out an entire planet and building the most devastating weapon in history that somehow can destroy 3 planets in different parts of the galaxy with one shot at the same time.

It would have taken very little creative thought to have made a more reasonable weapon plot point to replace starkiller base.

2. no attempt at explaining state of the galaxy and how the first order emerged what happened to the new republic and why leia felt the need to create a new rebellion apart from the new republic, why the new republic didnt respond to the threat of the first order. oh and Chewbacca walking past leia and then leia comforting Rey not chewwie after hans death was BS
 

cc7rip

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I've got to admit that Reddit leak a few posts previous sounds.... ok ish. Not as bad as some of the other crap I've read. It's a shame TLJ exists at all but if that leak is true you could do a good 20 minute fan edit of TLJ and use that to bridge TFA and this.

Not bad, a bit of a stretch but I'm back to the point I was just after the prequels - please don't suck as bad as the last movie.
The fan edits of these three films are going to be in full swing.
 
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-Arcadia-

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The only two issues I had with TFA was 1. ANOTHER FKIN DEATHSTAR, seriously this was just stupid and also making it out of a planet when it was supposedly built by the first order who are meant to be an offshoot of the empire and not as powerful as the galactic empire at their prime who had millions of slaves and resources at their disposal. and it was treated like it was just nothing. Oh the first order up to their old tricks hollowing out an entire planet and building the most devastating weapon in history that somehow can destroy 3 planets in different parts of the galaxy with one shot at the same time.

It would have taken very little creative thought to have made a more reasonable weapon plot point to replace starkiller base.

2. no attempt at explaining state of the galaxy and how the first order emerged what happened to the new republic and why leia felt the need to create a new rebellion apart from the new republic, why the new republic didnt respond to the threat of the first order. oh and Chewbacca walking past leia and then leia comforting Rey not chewwie after hans death was BS
Yeah. Even for all my hype on Day 1, I couldn’t help but roll my eyes at that. It’s just such a lame anti-climax to have the same plot device for the third time in a row, with everyone discussing how to take it down at the rebel base, and the typical cuts between fighters-in-the-air/strike-team-on-the-ground. It was all so very tired.

The actual shot of three integral planets going down, was actually pretty awesome, and a cool plot point. Just a shame that they didn’t find some other way to do, or express this.

I also agree on the worldbuilding. Another consequence of being an ANH remake. A combination of the quickly-paced OT, and a little of the worldbuilding of the PT, would have been really cool.

In general, I liked TFA, and the last third of the film is actually pretty fantastic.

It’s just that in hindsight, now that we know the plan was always to return things to boring ‘Rebels vs. Powerful Empire’ status quo, and throw the other movies in the trash, that really hurts the movie for me. Both of these movies have an incredible problem respecting legacy, while simultaneously just retreading it, and not making the most of new opportunities.
 
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Ah yes the magical plot dagger that solves like 4 narrative problems at once.

Leaks were all true
This is the other thing, imagine if the reddit leak was true and all the rumors of last-minute reshoots and alternate cuts were what was false.

I will read the plot synopsis on Wikipedia. I will not give Disney any money for a ticket.
 
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kunonabi

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Oof, yeah this is going to be total shit. Nothing about that dagger is a good idea.
 

NickFire

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i see the Sith as a sort of Fallen form of the Jedi. sort of the like devils are the fallen form of angels. he does not have the power of a Jedi, he must sort of rely on them, thus the conspiracy, he is given the title of Emperor through the Jedi.

had the Jedi not picked up on Anakin, I doubt the Emperor would have found this kid on a random nowhere planet. he was manipulating the Jedi and the Senate while Anakin was invited into this elite political circle and that is how he was discovered. Qui Gon bent the rules a number of times, including changing the results of a dice roll, in order to have Anakin be trained, which is something the Jedi council, including Yoda, was against. Obi Wan goes against Yoda in the OT just like he did in the PT. he trains the unsanctioned, prophesied Skywalker of both generations, in honor of his fallen master Qui Gon's unorthodox wishes. it is nice that Obi Wan somewhat redeems himself for Vader by training Luke.

had Qui Gon not been so rebellious (and through his pupil Obi Wan) it is possible Anakin became a successful racer on a backwater planet and that's it. the only reason the Emperor finds him is that the Jedi find him first. FWIW i think people give the Emperor too much credit. politicians are not that smart, manipulating your way into eternal war is probably not that difficult. as a professional conman he likely tells a lot of lies, yet people take what he says as truth.

don't believe his lies.
LOL at the last line. But back to serious business, I respectfully disagree. No way Anakin would be a forever unknown, and Palpatine was a shrewd dude. His ability to hide his violent nature and real self all those years while engaging with Jedi day in and out, was all due to extreme strength in the force.
 

cryptoadam

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Anyone see the Tommy Wisseau in Star Wars video?

Its already better than anything produced by the ST LOL.

This movie is going to be the most spectacularly dumb 2+ hours put on film. I hope the fan backlash is monumental.

Can't wait for all the shill press to say its the greatest and bestest Star Wars and return to form.

Rey Skywalker, Rey Fuckin Skywalker.
 

Fret Runner

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"The Saga will end"
*Thunderous applause erupts*
Disney higher up: They like it :)
Yes men boot lickers: Ummm...should we tell her why they are really cheering?