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Star Wars: The Old Republic [Releasing Date: Dec 20 NA/EU - NDA Lifted]

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Retrofluxed

Member
I can't believe the amount of people bitching about how DIKU SWTOR is yet continue to praise a DIKU MMOs like WoW. By all means, if you want a MMO that breaks the mold, go play EVE, Dragon Souls or wait for GW2, World of Darkness or TERA.

Personally, I *gasp* like my cookie-cutter DIKU clone SWTOR. Hard to believe, but some people actually enjoy that play style. Just like how someone needs to tell AreaNet that some people actually like playing dedicated healing classes (the reason I'm skipping GW2).
 

Blackface

Banned
goat said:
I can't believe the amount of people bitching about how DIKU SWTOR is yet continue to praise a DIKU MMOs like WoW. By all means, if you want a MMO that breaks the mold, go play EVE, Dragon Souls or wait for GW2, World of Darkness or TERA.

Personally, I *gasp* like my cookie-cutter DIKU clone SWTOR. Hard to believe, but some people actually enjoy that play style. Just like how someone needs to tell AreaNet that some people actually like playing dedicated healing classes (the reason I'm skipping GW2).

Right this is my point. There are many styles of MMORPG's. Just because you do not enjoy one, or have grown tired of it. Doesn't make that game bad.

What actually makes SWTOR bad compared to other traditional MMO's? Flashpoints are better the instances, it's questing and leveling is a far superior system. It's class design is well thought out and well executed. It's combat is fluid and well thought out. It gear upgrading system is superior to other traditional MMO's. It has sets of gear for all levels of play and all types of play. The worlds are large and amazingly crafted. End game? Who knows yet, nobody does. It could suck it could be great. Won't know until I try it.

However SWTOR takes a traditional MMO formula, adds in new, unique and INNOVATIVE aspects to it, and executes the tried and true beautifully.

I enjoy all types of MMO's. I can appreciate a well made MMO no matter what formula it uses.

I think the best part. Is there are people in this thread talking shit about Bioware not doing anthing original. Then going into the Diablo 3 thread and jerking off. Guess what, Diablo 3 is the most unoriginal game of all time. It's a dumbed down version of Diablo 2 with pretty sparkles and down-syndrome. Blizzard has done nothing, zero, innovative with Diablo 3. Yet everyone seems hyped for it and are so sure it's going to be fantastic. It's so hypocritical and laughable I don't even know where to start.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
Word on the street is the new build is pretty awesome. Chained flight paths, dressing room, lfg, marking targets, more flash points, etc.
 

Deadly

Member
Parn said:
Word on the street is the new build is pretty awesome. Chained flight paths, dressing room, lfg, marking targets, more flash points, etc.
Thank god for dressing room. Better be available during quest completion. It was pretty dumb having to choose from like 3 things that have the same stats but have a different appearance but not let us see it beforehand.
 

Meicyn

Gold Member
Deadly said:
Thank god for dressing room. Better be available during quest completion. It was pretty dumb having to choose from like 3 things that have the same stats but have a different appearance but not let us see it beforehand.
You hold down alt and right click on an item in order to see how it looks on you or your companion.
 

Won

Member
Blackface said:
Right this is my point. There are many styles of MMORPG's. Just because you do not enjoy one, or have grown tired of it. Doesn't make that game bad.

What actually makes SWTOR bad compared to other traditional MMO's? Flashpoints are better the instances, it's questing and leveling is a far superior system. It's class design is well thought out and well executed. It's combat is fluid and well thought out. It gear upgrading system is superior to other traditional MMO's. It has sets of gear for all levels of play and all types of play. The worlds are large and amazingly crafted. End game? Who knows yet, nobody does. It could suck it could be great. Won't know until I try it.

However SWTOR takes a traditional MMO formula, adds in new, unique and INNOVATIVE aspects to it, and executes the tried and true beautifully.

I enjoy all types of MMO's. I can appreciate a well made MMO no matter what formula it uses.

I think the best part. Is there are people in this thread talking shit about Bioware not doing anthing original. Then going into the Diablo 3 thread and jerking off. Guess what, Diablo 3 is the most unoriginal game of all time. It's a dumbed down version of Diablo 2 with pretty sparkles and down-syndrome. Blizzard has done nothing, zero, innovative with Diablo 3. Yet everyone seems hyped for it and are so sure it's going to be fantastic. It's so hypocritical and laughable I don't even know where to start.

I have to admit, I laughed. Good job.
 

Rflagg

Member
goat said:
I can't believe the amount of people bitching about how DIKU SWTOR is yet continue to praise a DIKU MMOs like WoW. By all means, if you want a MMO that breaks the mold, go play EVE, Dragon Souls or wait for GW2, World of Darkness or TERA.

Personally, I *gasp* like my cookie-cutter DIKU clone SWTOR. Hard to believe, but some people actually enjoy that play style. Just like how someone needs to tell AreaNet that some people actually like playing dedicated healing classes (the reason I'm skipping GW2).
100% agree. I am super glad that swtor went this route as I still really enjoy traditional mmos.
 

Desaan

Member
*This is not the SWTOR thread you are looking for*

I am interested in hearing about this new build though, please, do continue.
 

Emitan

Member
QFn30.png
 
Desaan said:
*This is not the SWTOR thread you are looking for*

I am interested in hearing about this new build though, please, do continue.

Is it really going to be in the new build though? Most of those things I thought they said are stuff they are working for launch or soon after launch. LFG tools would be the most welcome thing, it would be real lame if the game ships without one
 
Blackface said:
I think the best part. Is there are people in this thread talking shit about Bioware not doing anthing original. Then going into the Diablo 3 thread and jerking off. Guess what, Diablo 3 is the most unoriginal game of all time. It's a dumbed down version of Diablo 2 with pretty sparkles and down-syndrome. Blizzard has done nothing, zero, innovative with Diablo 3. Yet everyone seems hyped for it and are so sure it's going to be fantastic. It's so hypocritical and laughable I don't even know where to start.
There is no NDA on D3 from day 1, and many have been waiting for the sequel for 11 years, especially since however unoriginal, there hasn't been an ARPG that has "filled the void" so to speak. Meanwhile Bioware refuses to lift the NDA for SWTOR even as release seemingly approaches. That contributes.

If Bioware were making a note-for-note graphical update of X-com or Alpha Centauri, which occupy a similar position to D2, you think people would be complaining? Many of these same people are also "jerking off" to DotA 2- a game that is a purely graphical and community update. According to you, none of them should be excited about that at all I guess? By contrast, DIKU MMO has not exactly experienced a large void lately.

And what's more, with all that said, I'm pretty sure the amount of bitching about D3 on the internet could still drown all of SWTOR's :)
 

Blackface

Banned
FieryBalrog said:
There is no NDA on D3 from day 1, and many have been waiting for the sequel for 11 years, especially since however unoriginal, there hasn't been an ARPG that has "filled the void" so to speak. Meanwhile Bioware refuses to lift the NDA for SWTOR even as release seemingly approaches. That contributes.

If Bioware were making a note-for-note graphical update of X-com or Alpha Centauri, which occupy a similar position to D2, you think people would be complaining? Many of these same people are also "jerking off" to DotA 2- a game that is a purely graphical and community update. According to you, none of them should be excited about that at all I guess?

And what's more, I'm pretty sure the amount of bitching about D3 on the internet could drown all of SWTOR :)

DOTA2 isn't a purely graphical and community update. It's going to be bringing many new features that are not in DOTA or HON currently. Some from LOL, and some unique. DOTA is also a style of game, that can't be heavily changed. Otherwise it is no longer DOTA. Much like Football can't start using round balls and a different field.

Diablo 3 on the other hand has done nothing innovative. infact, from what I have heard, it has regressed. Gotten more simple, less complex, with less things to do overall, and many hardcore D2 players are not happy. Regardless, it's going to be a good game. It's going to be a fun game. Just because it's changed nothing about dungeon crawlers doesn't mean it can't be a good game.

In terms of SWTOR NDA. What exactly would lifting the NDA do? ALL THE INFORMATION IS OUT ALREADY. You have seen EVERYTHING IN THE BETA. There are hundreds of screenshots and videos of every planet. Every flash point in the game has been detailed. The PVP, story, classes, talent tree's, EVERYTHING is on the Internet for you to read about. The NDA existed, because it is an MMO. Show me one MMO that had no NDA from day 1. You won't find one. Why? because things change. SWTOR has changed drastically since I got into beta.

Diablo 3? Well, you can read about the first half of the first act, and thats about it. The reason the NDA was up on D3 is because 90 percent of the keys went to prominent streamers who are being used as advertisement bots. From SK Ocelote to Athene. The keys were distributed to the most watched streamers who stream games ranging from Leauge of Legends and HON, to TF2 and blizzard titles. They lifted the NDA not because of YOU but because it allowed these people to stream the beta and give them free advertising all day, to markets of players who play different types of games. It was a genius move.

The point is. If you do not want to play a traditional MMO. Then stop shitting up this fucking thread with your pointless bullshit and go somewhere else. If you have legit criticism of the actual GAME, then have at it. However it's been known for over a year it's a traditional MMO, this will never change. Like I said before.

Think of SWTOR like new restaurant that you are exited to open. A year before the restaurant opens, you find out it's seafood only. You hate seafood, and can't stomach it. So instead of forgetting about the restaurant, and not spending your money there. You decide to go on opening day and order a big lobster. Then complain about how bad the lobster was and how awful the restaurant is because of it. Well of course you won't like the restaurant, or the Lobster, BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE FUCKING SEAFOOD. It doesn't mean the restaurant or the Lobster were bad.

So if you do not like traditional MMO's, you won't like SWTOR. It doesn't make SWTOR bad.
 
Blackface said:
DOTA2 isn't a purely graphical and community update. It's going to be bringing many new features that are not in DOTA or HON currently. Some from LOL, and some unique. DOTA is also a style of game, that can't be heavily changed. Otherwise it is no longer DOTA. Much like Football can't start using round balls and a different field.

Diablo 3 on the other hand has done nothing innovative. infact, from what I have heard, it has regressed. Gotten more simple, less complex, with less things to do overall, and many hardcore D2 players are not happy. Regardless, it's going to be a good game. It's going to be a fun game. Just because it's changed nothing about dungeon crawlers doesn't mean it can't be a good game.

If you do not consider Battle.net 2.0 features, fixed slots for skills, runes, enhanced PvP experience new features - I don't know what to tell you. They might not be new to the genre, but they are new to Diablo.

Blackface said:
In terms of SWTOR NDA. What exactly would lifting the NDA do? ALL THE INFORMATION IS OUT ALREADY. You have seen EVERYTHING IN THE BETA. There are hundreds of screenshots and videos of every planet. Every flash point in the game has been detailed. The PVP, story, classes, talent tree's, EVERYTHING is on the Internet for you to read about.

Yes, all these fascinating CAM clips from Gamescon, E3, TGS, because Bioware can't be arsed to lift NDA so people can record some 1080p clips! I don't want PR bullshit, I want to see how it plays!

If you consider the answer to your question "What exactly would lifting the NDA do?" to be "Nothing.", then why not lift it? What is so preventing Bioware from spraying the glory of SWTOR on us all?

There is not enough media around. I don't know how it was during WoW beta, but you don't see Blizzard putting an NDA on every PTR patch, even if they still post huge in-depth articles about the incoming changes?
 

cackhyena

Member
Blackface said:
In terms of SWTOR NDA. What exactly would lifting the NDA do? ALL THE INFORMATION IS OUT ALREADY. You have seen EVERYTHING IN THE BETA. There are hundreds of screenshots and videos of every planet. Every flash point in the game has been detailed. The PVP, story, classes, talent tree's, EVERYTHING is on the Internet for you to read about.
Of gameplay? I'd just like to see some mid level jedi stuff. I haven't been following this game that much, but I'm playing Kotor for the first time, and loving coming back to this style of game. I played Kotor 2 back in the day.

I just want to compare and get a good look at it. Not stage demos of some class I'll never touch. Anything like that out?
 

Emitan

Member
We've seen everything? The Smuggler Progression Video was the first time any media of the Scoundrel has ever been put on the net (maybe aside from discussions on the beta testing forums). I wasn't even sure the class existed anymore.
 
Blackface said:
DOTA2 isn't a purely graphical and community update. It's going to be bringing many new features that are not in DOTA or HON currently. Some from LOL, and some unique. DOTA is also a style of game, that can't be heavily changed. Otherwise it is no longer DOTA. Much like Football can't start using round balls and a different field.

Diablo 3 on the other hand has done nothing innovative
If you are trying to tell me that DotA 2 is doing some major innovative gameplay thing, I can't take you seriously anymore, sorry. That's a whole lot of special pleading going on there. There is nothing wrong with what Icefrog is doing- I applaud it- but it's DotA, made in the source engine, literally. With the same heroes, same mechanics, the same engine bugs from Warcraft 3, specifically recreated. It's on record as the continuation of the original game. That's what it's supposed to be.

I mean, the very idea is hilarious, given the stated intentions of its creators. Apparently, the fairly large changes in D3 are all irrelevant and can be dismissed with a wave of the hand, but a game that is a straight port in gameplay, is an innovator? I'm sure there will be many business side and community side features, but D3 is doing even those, so... What's next, CS: GO is a font of dynamic innovation?
The reason the NDA was up on D3 is because 90 percent of the keys went to prominent streamers who are being used as advertisement bots.
OK, sorry I read this part and you are just blathering and/or becoming a lunatic about this. Nevermind.
 

Blackface

Banned
Castor Krieg said:
If you do not consider Battle.net 2.0 features, fixed slots for skills, runes, enhanced PvP experience new features - I don't know what to tell you. They might not be new to the genre, but they are new to Diablo.



Yes, all these fascinating CAM clips from Gamescon, E3, TGS, because Bioware can't be arsed to lift NDA so people can record some 1080p clips! I don't want PR bullshit, I want to see how it plays!

If you consider the answer to your question "What exactly would lifting the NDA do?" to be "Nothing.", then why not lift it? What is so preventing Bioware from spraying the glory of SWTOR on us all?

There is not enough media around. I don't know how it was during WoW beta, but you don't see Blizzard putting an NDA on every PTR patch, even if they still post huge in-depth articles about the incoming changes?


1. 90 percent of Battlenet 2.0 features were put in for World of Warcraft and Starcraft 2

2. The skill system in Diablo 3 is a regression from Diablo 2, and more simple then even World of Warcraft. You can't customize your character anymore.

3. Everythingg else has been in the same style of games for years.

4. You say "it's all new to Diablo". Guess what everything SWTOR is doing is new to SWTOR. Stupid argument is stupid.

None of this is topping Diablo from being a great game. Much like being a traditional MMO isn't stopping SWTOR from being one.

Did you just compare the launch of a MMO in the hundreds of millions of dollars to putting an NDA on patches currently on the PTR for World of Warcraft?

Did WoW have an NDA?
Did Rift have an NDA?
Did GW have an NDA?
Name me one MMO without an NDA. Hell, every WoW expansion ever made had an NDA up until WEEKS before it launched.
 

Blackface

Banned
FieryBalrog said:
If you are trying to tell me that DotA 2 is doing some major innovative gameplay thing, I can't take you seriously anymore, sorry. That's a whole lot of special pleading going on there. There is nothing wrong with what Icefrog is doing- I applaud it- but it's DotA, made in the source engine, literally. With the same heroes, same mechanics, the same engine bugs from Warcraft 3, specifically recreated. It's on record as the continuation of the original game. That's what it's supposed to be.

I mean, the very idea is hilarious, given the stated intentions of its creators. Apparently, the fairly large changes in D3 are all irrelevant and can be dismissed with a wave of the hand, but a game that is a straight port in gameplay, is an innovator? I'm sure there will be many business side and community side features, but D3 is doing even those, so... What's next, CS: GO is a font of dynamic innovation?

OK, sorry I read this part and you are just blathering and/or becoming a lunatic about this. Nevermind.

You are embarrassing yourself.

My argument is games don't need to break the mold to be good games. My point is, you critize SWTOR for doing things other MMO's are doing. Yet suck Blizzard fat cock for out right copying other games features and putting them in Diablo 3.

You are a hypocrite. Must suck....
 

Morn

Banned
Blackface said:
Did WoW have an NDA?
Did Rift have an NDA?
Did GW have an NDA?
Name me one MMO without an NDA. Hell, every WoW expansion ever made had an NDA up until WEEKS before it launched.

WoW only had a NDA in Friends & Family Alpha. The NDA was dropped in March 2004 when the beta started. Same thing with the expansions, once they went from F&F Alpha to beta the NDAs were dropped.
 

Blackface

Banned
cackhyena said:
Of gameplay? I'd just like to see some mid level jedi stuff. I haven't been following this game that much, but I'm playing Kotor for the first time, and loving coming back to this style of game. I played Kotor 2 back in the day.

I just want to compare and get a good look at it. Not stage demos of some class I'll never touch. Anything like that out?

yes. Go to the SWTOR sub reddit. Videos are posted all the time. When the new beta wave comes out I am sure you will find all you are looking for.
 
Morn said:
WoW only had a NDA in Friends & Family Alpha. The NDA was dropped in March 2004 when the beta started. Same thing with the expansions, once they went from F&F Alpha to beta the NDAs were dropped.
Yeah, I was about to say....
 

Desaan

Member
Castor Krieg said:
What is so preventing Bioware from spraying the glory of SWTOR on us all?

I have the strangest mental image right now.....

You do make a valid point though, their NDA is laughable at best. Every bit of information about the game is out there to be consumed and that's in part due to the delay of the game. I don't anticipate seeing it this year but there is always a chance EA might stick their boot up someone's arse, the 'when it's ready' might come down to when EA says so, not Bioware.
 
Blackface said:
2. The skill system in Diablo 3 is a regression from Diablo 2, and more simple then even World of Warcraft. You can't customize your character anymore.

No, it adds a layer of strategic thinking, to use the most optimal skill set for a given situation, same as Guild Wars. It is not a step back.
 

Blackface

Banned
Morn said:
WoW only had a NDA in Friends & Family Alpha. The NDA was dropped in March 2004 when the beta started. Same thing with the expansions, once they went from F&F Alpha to beta the NDAs were dropped.

This is not true. Blizzard only drops their NDA's during open beta. They also send CDO to everything who leaks anything. Something Bioware has not done to Betacakes. Do you know how easy they could shut that site down? They aren't for a reason.

I was sent a fucking CDO when I recorded my guild killing the first boss of Nax on the PTR and it was posted on Cursegaming/SK (now curse and separate from SK), back in the day.
 

Trouble

Banned
Blackface said:
This is not true. Blizzard only drops their NDA's during open beta. They also send CDO to everything who leaks anything. Something Bioware has not done to Betacakes. Do you know how easy they could shut that site down? They aren't for a reason.

I was sent a fucking CDO when I recorded my guild killing the first boss of Nax on the PTR and it was posted on Cursegaming/SK (now curse and separate from SK), back in the day.
I can confirm this. I was in WoW closed beta and there was most definitely an NDA and they most definitely took it at least as seriously as Bioware is taking it now.
 

Blackface

Banned
Trouble said:
I can confirm this. I was in WoW closed beta and there was most definitely an NDA and they most definitely took it at least as seriously as Bioware is taking it now.

Notonly this, but Blizzard has mutliple NDAs. The Alpha NDA is not the same as the beta NDA. Something they will drop the alpha NDA and not the closed beta NDA. Since Alpha is virtually none of the game. I was not in the alpha but I was in closed beta and we were under NDA. That said, it also wasn't as easy to leak info and video back then.

Either way. Both Bioware and Blizzard make sure all their stuff leaks. Bioware through betacakes now, and Blizzard via mmo-champion.
 

Luigi87

Member
Fine Ham Abounds said:
Not to be rude, but I'm starting to think this thread should be split.
At this point I'm hoping whoever makes the Official Thread names it
Star Wars The Old Republic |OT| Actually Discussing TOR and Not WoW
or
Star Wars The Old Republic |OT| World of Warcraft |OT4|


Edit: Damn, too slow!
 

Won

Member
Luigi87 said:
At this point I'm hoping whoever makes the Official Thread names it Star Wars The Old Republic |OT| Actually Discussing TOR and Not WoW

Only happening if they drop the NDA after release obviously.
 

kunonabi

Member
I have one question that I probably know the answer based off my opinion of KOTOR. Does the game feel like Star Wars or just some Sci Fi game with lightsabers? I sort of lost interest in the Expanded Universe because it felt like traditional sci-fi stuff with SW theme. KOTOR was suffered from the same issue for me. I prefer the scale and of scope of the films and their sense of grand adventure.
 

Morn

Banned
FieryBalrog said:
Incorrect. I followed the beta at the time, and the lack of NDA was widely known.
http://www.gamezone.com/previews/item/world_of_warcraft_pc_preview_2
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/archive/index.php/t-9388.html
http://www.guforums.com/showthread.php?t=1228
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/7326

It's not hard to find. Some of you either remember wrong, or are trying very hard for some reason.

Links for proof. Thanks.

As soon as WoW hit beta in March 2004 there was no NDA at all. Same thing with the expansions. I was in WoW beta and every expansion beta and there was no NDA. Fuck, even sites like wowhead run an beta-only DB.
 

kitzkozan

Member
Castor Krieg said:
Explain to me then. Do I have to come to SWTOR with a particular mindset to be able to enjoy it? I always though great games would be enjoyable "just because". Are you in the beta by any chance?

Even if that was more of a fanboy rant, you just don't get the sense of excitement from the testers (there are some people posting in the comments to that article; no, I don't know if they are in the beta).

Contrast that with DIII, where almost 100% of people playing the beta are blown away by great design choices, good art, smooth performance, etc.

This make me lol honestly. :) Comparing Blizzard who's more talented than Bioware in nearly every facet of game creation and you expect any less? Bioware just aren't that talented and everyone should know this by now.
 

Blackface

Banned
FieryBalrog said:
Incorrect. I followed the beta at the time, and the lack of NDA was widely known.
http://www.gamezone.com/previews/item/world_of_warcraft_pc_preview_2
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/archive/index.php/t-9388.html
http://www.guforums.com/showthread.php?t=1228
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/7326

It's not hard to find. Some of you either remember wrong, or are trying very hard for some reason.

it dropped during the public beta...please read your own stuff. Also, most of the public beta was still under NDA. Read above posted, read the post I wrote about NDA stages. Welcome to Blizzard games.
 

Blackface

Banned
Luigi87 said:
At this point I'm hoping whoever makes the Official Thread names it
Star Wars The Old Republic |OT| Actually Discussing TOR and Not WoW
or
Star Wars The Old Republic |OT| World of Warcraft |OT4|


Edit: Damn, too slow!

Someone should go for it. But the same shit happening in here will happen in there. Mods would have to enforce otherwise.
 
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