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StarCraft II Story Discussion Thread (spoilers)
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Do I need to play SC1 in order to understand this game?
There's a difference, Mengsk will show up to stab everyone the back again only to be fooled by Kerrigan... again. Also I never understood what's up with Tassadar, he always seemed to ignore orders and do his own shit and even ignited a Protoss civil war when the Zerg invaded. He gave up yes, but still such a strange thing to do. He calls the overmind 'brave and smart?', didn't that creature almost kill all the Protoss. And he has not 'tasted death' from a blast that nearly blew up the planet? So many questions and SCII:WoL did little to answer them.Tripwood said:
There's a story recap when you install the game but you should play SC and Broodwar anyway
I found two awesome things in the secret mission... a "jumping weird armored... thing" near the drop pods and some metroids...
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Infinite Justice
Member
[Nintex] said:
Duckroll kinda went over why he would say this.
Something about the overmind actually being controlled , it tried to break free and Infesting Kerrigan as part of this plan.
I'm not sure I like the idea of the Overmind being "good" in some sense. Maybe its just me, but having arguably the main villain from the original Starcraft be some kind of tragic hero seems really lame. I liked the idea of the Zerg a lot more when they were just basically trying to consume the universe for the hell of it.
Didn't they mention that the Xel'naga who keeps trolling you in the Protoss last man standing mission is like a 'fallen' one. I see you thar Sargeras.Tripwood said:
On another note, I am going through the missions again for the achievements in the archives and it lets you do the 'alternate choice' route stuff, and even watch the cut scenes. If you choose the mission where you side with the Protoss... man what a depressing end.
Zanken said:
The choices in this game just create completely alternate universes.
If you side with the Protoss, Dr. Hanson locks herself in the lab and turns out to be infested, if you decide to fight the Protoss Dr. Hanson gives Raynor a kiss and asks him if he's ever thought about settling down, hint hint.
If you help Tosh the prisoners at New Folsom are simply political dissidents and luminaries who according to Capt. Horner will do more to help their rebellion than all the battles they've fought. Dr. Hanson will also tell you that what Nova said about Spectres being mentally unstable and dangerous is completely false.
However if you help Nova, the prisoners at New Folsom are dangerous crazies who need to stay locked up for the good of everyone, and she kills Tosh at the end
The choice between eliminating Nydus Worms vs. Zerg Air doesn't change the story at all, though. Although the mission if you choose Nydus Worms is way more fun than the Zerg Air one.
golem said:
The $100M figure was wrong, applied to WoW and not SC2 - http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748703467304575383443343071562.html
Morbid Angel
Member
Well, I don't know what to say. The campaign itself was awesome but they really butchered Kerrigan and it seems they are going the Warcraft III route (all races united against a common enemy). Very disappointing.
Great post! Tychus is actually a very interesting character.
Sigmond said:
Great post! Tychus is actually a very interesting character.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
I hope Nova is a clone of Kerrigan. Would be great if there are more of those nice fat lips in the universe.
Thoughts on story:
Since the hybrids seem to be created in secret Dominion facilities with the help of alien technology, it's likely that Mengsk is working for the Xel'Naga. He probably cut a deal with them, but the Xel'Naga have no intention of keeping him around since they want to purge the galaxy and start fresh. That would have to be the case, otherwise why would Mengsk plant Tychus with Raynor with the specific mission of killing Kerrigan after the artifact was used on her? He knew about the artifacts and told Tychus to get Raynor to assemble them. Does this mean that Valarian is in on it too? Maybe it was Mengsk's way of letting Raynor use his fleet to get to Kerrigan by getting around their own personal conflict.
IIRC, the Xel'Naga created the Protoss but when the Protoss ancestors turned away from the path the Xel'Naga were trying to set them on, they deemed the Protoss a failure. The Xel'Naga modified the Zerg to make them a destructive force with the sole purpose of destroying the Protoss. The Overmind being sentient wanted more than to be a slave of the Xel'Naga, and created Infested Kerrigan with the purpose of freeing itself from the Xel'Naga. How the Overmind intended to use Kerrigan is unclear because Tassadar killed the Overmind before it could set it's plan in motion.
What bothers me is that Kerrigan supposedly had free will as soon as the Overmind died, so why would her infestation have caused her to be evil? I thought she was just choosing to be given her powerful new position in life. Also, if the artifact turned her back into a human, how could she control the Zerg in the first expansion pack? If she's still part Zerg, then how is it any different than before? What did she want the artifact for when she was looking for it?
Overall:
Missions were fun and varied
Story was sloppy and weaker than I was hoping, but there are 2 expansions to fix that
Since the hybrids seem to be created in secret Dominion facilities with the help of alien technology, it's likely that Mengsk is working for the Xel'Naga. He probably cut a deal with them, but the Xel'Naga have no intention of keeping him around since they want to purge the galaxy and start fresh. That would have to be the case, otherwise why would Mengsk plant Tychus with Raynor with the specific mission of killing Kerrigan after the artifact was used on her? He knew about the artifacts and told Tychus to get Raynor to assemble them. Does this mean that Valarian is in on it too? Maybe it was Mengsk's way of letting Raynor use his fleet to get to Kerrigan by getting around their own personal conflict.
IIRC, the Xel'Naga created the Protoss but when the Protoss ancestors turned away from the path the Xel'Naga were trying to set them on, they deemed the Protoss a failure. The Xel'Naga modified the Zerg to make them a destructive force with the sole purpose of destroying the Protoss. The Overmind being sentient wanted more than to be a slave of the Xel'Naga, and created Infested Kerrigan with the purpose of freeing itself from the Xel'Naga. How the Overmind intended to use Kerrigan is unclear because Tassadar killed the Overmind before it could set it's plan in motion.
What bothers me is that Kerrigan supposedly had free will as soon as the Overmind died, so why would her infestation have caused her to be evil? I thought she was just choosing to be given her powerful new position in life. Also, if the artifact turned her back into a human, how could she control the Zerg in the first expansion pack? If she's still part Zerg, then how is it any different than before? What did she want the artifact for when she was looking for it?
Overall:
Missions were fun and varied
Story was sloppy and weaker than I was hoping, but there are 2 expansions to fix that
Zzoram said:
I may be misremembering something, but I think there was something in the supplemental materials that basically explained that the process of Zerg infestation removed human morality.
Don't ask me how that would work (probably just a magic as sci-fi thing), though.
And as far as her controlling the Zerg goes, I've got no idea. In one of the novels that covers Kerrigan's backstory, we learn that
Kerrigan was uniquely suited to controlling Zerg; Confederate experiments confirmed that.
nova is the daughter of a confederate old family and was protected from ghost wranglers due to her parents status and she was first recruited into the ghost program after kerrigan had fallen on tarsonis so its pretty unlikely she is a kerrigan clone.Jamesfrom818 said:
and nova is much stronger than kerrigan
Pandaman said:
In her current form? Doesn't the final mission indicate she has a Psi Index of 12? Nova's a 10. I don't think there's actually been a source that's given Kerrigan's original Psi Index. But you have to be a psionic badass to control the entire zerg swarm.
Tacitus_ said:
Right, and this redrawn psi index is the one where Nova is a 10, while most ghosts are a 5 or 6. So it's likely that Nova would have caused a similar redrawing. But the only indication of Kerrigan's psi index is the one where SC2 claims she's a "class 12", which may or may not refer to her psi index.
Good lord is this discussion nerdy.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
My grasp of the StarCraft story is fuzzy at best. I think I must have started playing through the campaign something like 10 times and finished it once. Brood War, I don't even know if I ever got past the Terran campaign.
In any case, the Raynor/Kerrigan relationship, while not out of nowhere, felt a bit retcon-y to me. I mean, I guess they were flirty, but when over the course of the one mission between Kerrigan's introduction and her infestation did Raynor develop his SC2 levels of obsessive devotion to her? I get that she's like the only female character in the universe and you have to lock that down, but come on...
In any case, the Raynor/Kerrigan relationship, while not out of nowhere, felt a bit retcon-y to me. I mean, I guess they were flirty, but when over the course of the one mission between Kerrigan's introduction and her infestation did Raynor develop his SC2 levels of obsessive devotion to her? I get that she's like the only female character in the universe and you have to lock that down, but come on...
fizzelopeguss
Banned
When Nova was 15 [with no training], she destroyed a sky scraper and killed several hundred people. Once she was rained, nova was capable of excluding allies from the effects of her attacks, something templar cant even do.Tacitus_ said:Well, I'm going to assume that she is 12 on the index since she can use a psi storm equivelant and even most protoss can't do that.
And yes, isn't it great
Jamesfrom818
Banned
Reading about Nova makes me want Starcraft: Ghost to be revived even more.
I really liked the story. My interpretation of some things:
- Like others have said, Tychus' actions throughout the entire game was him trying to prevent Raynor from ending up in a position where he would have to betray his friend. In the end, and knowing that Mengsk had a kill switch on him, he just let Raynor murder him. He aimed at Kerrigan with no intention of shooting to kill, because either way he was a dead man; if not by Raynor's hand after killing Kerrigan, than by Mengsk's for not fulfilling his end of the bargain.
- Everything with the Moebius Foundation is Arcturus' scheme, and Valerian is merely playing his part. To what end, I have no idea, but that and the Xel'Naga plot are the biggest lead-ins to the expansion.
- We still have no idea what the artifact is. Sure, it neutralized the zerg infestation, but it was built at a time long before the Zerg ever existed.
There's a lot of threads that could lead to interesting stuff in the expansions, particularly where Mengsk's scheme fits into the bigger picture, and whether Kerrigan is fully human now, or something else. The only real weaknesses with the plot were the Colonist Missions/Shitty Romance, and the episodic nature of the campaign which screws up the plot pacing for the sake of gameplay (which I think was totally worth it).
Some of the major plot points feel a bit similar to what they ended up doing with World of Warcraft (the main villain is a fallen member of the "god race"), but there's still room for more complications that make it feel like its own story.
We never really saw what the characters did between mission briefings in SC1, but there was definitely a sense of regret or remorse in Raynor's actions and words about what happened to Kerrigan, and his role in working for Mengsk at the time.
- Like others have said, Tychus' actions throughout the entire game was him trying to prevent Raynor from ending up in a position where he would have to betray his friend. In the end, and knowing that Mengsk had a kill switch on him, he just let Raynor murder him. He aimed at Kerrigan with no intention of shooting to kill, because either way he was a dead man; if not by Raynor's hand after killing Kerrigan, than by Mengsk's for not fulfilling his end of the bargain.
- Everything with the Moebius Foundation is Arcturus' scheme, and Valerian is merely playing his part. To what end, I have no idea, but that and the Xel'Naga plot are the biggest lead-ins to the expansion.
- We still have no idea what the artifact is. Sure, it neutralized the zerg infestation, but it was built at a time long before the Zerg ever existed.
There's a lot of threads that could lead to interesting stuff in the expansions, particularly where Mengsk's scheme fits into the bigger picture, and whether Kerrigan is fully human now, or something else. The only real weaknesses with the plot were the Colonist Missions/Shitty Romance, and the episodic nature of the campaign which screws up the plot pacing for the sake of gameplay (which I think was totally worth it).
Some of the major plot points feel a bit similar to what they ended up doing with World of Warcraft (the main villain is a fallen member of the "god race"), but there's still room for more complications that make it feel like its own story.
MegaKungFuRadio said:
We never really saw what the characters did between mission briefings in SC1, but there was definitely a sense of regret or remorse in Raynor's actions and words about what happened to Kerrigan, and his role in working for Mengsk at the time.
MisterAnderson
Member
Can anyone give me pointers in the best way to do an early Marauder/Hellion push? Right now my build order involves 1 Rax to Tech Lab while building a Factory. Then starting a second Factory as the first is building. Swap the first one with the Rax Tech lab and build my first Hellion and research Pre-Igniter ASAP after that after building tech lab on my Rax. Then pump out Hellions out of both Factories (ignoring add on for the 2nd factory to minimize it's downtime in constructing an add on) and pumping Marauders from my Rax.
Is there a more efficient way to do this?
Edit: Wrong StarCraft II thread lol.
Is there a more efficient way to do this?
Edit: Wrong StarCraft II thread lol.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Yaweee said:
I get that. It's just that for me, it felt a bit forced and unrealistic given the context. At least at the degree to which they went with it. Raynor would have sacrificed everything in order to save Kerrigan, despite what he said about the final missions being about more than Kerrigan.
SuperAndroid17
Member
I dont understand... at the end of Brood War, Raynor claimed he was going to kill kerrigan for killing fenix and duke. Now comes SCII , he changes heart and saves her?
:/
SC1 definitely had a darker story.
:/
SC1 definitely had a darker story.
Jamesfrom818
Banned
SuperAndroid17 said:
He discovered a way to bring her back. I don't mind the change of heart.
I think it's pretty apparent that they've been wanting to do something like that - what with the novels expanding the universe, Blizzard giving more and more indepth information on the individual planets, the introduction of multiple kinds of
, more and more characters, etc.
hybrids
Just finished, have to say that the ending was interesting. I think Heart of the Swarm will be interesting story wise. I think the following will happen.
The story will pick up a couple of months after WoL. Kerrigan is back to mostly her human form. Jim and her are a thing now obviously. Meanwhile Mengsk realizing that killing Kerrigan holds no gain for him since she is human again. This is because he's been saying that the Queen of Blades was no infested human. Therefore he's declaring Raynor and his raiders heroes of the dominion. Jim realizing he cannot play the argument of leaving behind kerrigan and that there is a bigger threat looming then Mengsk accepts this, because starting a civil war amongst the terrans isn't an option right now.
Meanwhile Kerrigan finds out she still has some power over some of the zerg, mainly zerglings. Then the first of the Xel'naga show up. Wiping out a planet. Realizing the threat she's starting to realize that she must try to get control of the swarm once more. There the mutations begin. With every mutation she's gets more control over the swarm while also losing her humanity bit for bit. Jim remembering the words of zeratul that he hold her life in his hands accepts that there is no future for him and kerrigan, because he cannot be seen involved with the queen of blades because then everything he and his raiders fought for becomes useless since Mengsk will just use that against him. Sarah realizing the same thing accepts her fate as the Queen of blades, becoming the Heart of the Swarm.
The story will pick up a couple of months after WoL. Kerrigan is back to mostly her human form. Jim and her are a thing now obviously. Meanwhile Mengsk realizing that killing Kerrigan holds no gain for him since she is human again. This is because he's been saying that the Queen of Blades was no infested human. Therefore he's declaring Raynor and his raiders heroes of the dominion. Jim realizing he cannot play the argument of leaving behind kerrigan and that there is a bigger threat looming then Mengsk accepts this, because starting a civil war amongst the terrans isn't an option right now.
Meanwhile Kerrigan finds out she still has some power over some of the zerg, mainly zerglings. Then the first of the Xel'naga show up. Wiping out a planet. Realizing the threat she's starting to realize that she must try to get control of the swarm once more. There the mutations begin. With every mutation she's gets more control over the swarm while also losing her humanity bit for bit. Jim remembering the words of zeratul that he hold her life in his hands accepts that there is no future for him and kerrigan, because he cannot be seen involved with the queen of blades because then everything he and his raiders fought for becomes useless since Mengsk will just use that against him. Sarah realizing the same thing accepts her fate as the Queen of blades, becoming the Heart of the Swarm.
Big-E said:
The interesting thing is that he never talks about this to anybody, probably thinking that nobody would believe an ancient doomsday prophecy made by a bunch of long-dead aliens. The people around him must still be convinced that he rescued Kerrigan for purely personal reasons. Poor Raynor, being made to look like a romantic sob, when he's only trying to save the universe.
Sigmond said:The interesting thing is that he never talks about this to anybody, probably thinking that nobody would believe an ancient doomsday prophecy made by a bunch of long-dead aliens. The people around him must still be convinced that he rescued Kerrigan for purely personal reasons. Poor Raynor, being made to look like a romantic sob, when he's only trying to save the universe.
Huh? He talks to Matt about it after each Zeratul mission.
duckroll said:
Hm, maybe I'm remembering things wrong here (hey, it's been almost a whole week since I finished the campaign :lol ), but even if Horner knows, he's still the only one. Raynor got shit from Swann for working with the Dominion, and almost faced a crew-wide mutiny because of it. In the end, he basically said "just trust me, all right?", leaving everyone to draw their own conclusions.
Sigmond said:
Do you really think that if Raynor had told everyone on the crew that some Protoss prophecy says that Kerrigan is the one who will save everyone from some evil end-of-the-universe threat that they would not react in the same way anyway?
Stopping Kerrigan and wiping out the Zerg army on Char would be a huge step forward for humanity in the sector regardless of any prophecy. If they weren't happy to work with the Dominion to achieve that goal, it shows that their grievances with Mengsk is bothering them more than the larger picture of helping humanity stop the alien threat. As long as that's the case, it wouldn't make any difference whether they knew about the prophecy or not.
Obviously Matt is someone Raynor trusts a lot, and someone he knows to be level headed. But even when he shares it with Matt, he still doesn't like the idea of working with the Dominion. I think that says a lot.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
miladesn said:
I'm not sure which choices made have any lasting effects on the story...they all seemed to just change what the next mission would be.
I just finished the campaign myself and while the story was decent enough, I'm a little disappointed in the disconnect between the Zeratul missions and Raynor's story. I understand that they didn't want to force the players to go through each of them at a certain time and the Zeratul line was pretty much entirely optional, but a whole lot is revealed by the Zeratul missions that go completely ignored by the rest of the game; Raynor doesn't seem like he knows anything about Kerrigan being the key to defeating the Hybrids at the end of the game. It seems more like he goes to Char to save her for a cheesy happy ending rather than because of the prophecy. The looming threat of the Hybrids themselves isn't even mentioned outside of the post-mission dialogs as well.
There's also absolutely no clarity regarding Mengsk. After completing the campaign it says Mengsk has returned to the throne but there's nothing in the campaign itself that indicates this. Perhaps the "defeat" of the Queen of Blades did it for him but it seemed a little unclear.
Other than a few holes here and there it was definitely way more interesting than any of the other Terran campaigns so far, which are usually way more boring compared to the others. Terran stories generally feel like bland space opera whereas the Zerg and Protoss campaigns of the past have been pretty unique for science fiction stories. I'm looking forward to them a lot more and I'm kinda glad Terran is out of the way now. Terran gameplay is remarkably improved in SC2; their story isn't quite as lucky.
I don't think any of the choices made will carry over to the expansion. It's a RTS game, not a RPG. The choices you make directly influence how your campaign games, and the fates of certain supporting characters, but those are also the parts of the campaign which is most self-contained.
Regardless of whether Ariel tries to find a cure of infestation or whether dies as an infected has no baring on the larger picture. Same with Tosh joining the the Hyperion or ending up dead. Clearing the sky forces or the ground forces on Char have no long standing effect either since Char itself is cleared by the Artifact in the end.
Regardless of whether Ariel tries to find a cure of infestation or whether dies as an infected has no baring on the larger picture. Same with Tosh joining the the Hyperion or ending up dead. Clearing the sky forces or the ground forces on Char have no long standing effect either since Char itself is cleared by the Artifact in the end.
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