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Street Fighter V Season 2 Patch Notes Released (92 page PDF)

This happens in every game ever. People look at their character in a vacuum.

You need to compare match ups, what do you struggle with vs______ character?

"Oh Ryu's whatever move always messes up my oki set ups. My character got a few things nerfed but fighting against Ryu is actually easier now!"

And of course people just drop characters the second they see a nerf instead of learning and adapting.

Things change. Adapt. That's the best thing about fighting games! So many knee jerk reactions.

adapt-mk_2048x2048.jpg
 
Maybe I'm the crazy one but I find the reactions to Season 2 really embarrassing. Looking at this PDF and deciding exactly what it means is fucking HILARIOUS. I'm sorry - you're not as smart as you think you are. You can't see all the possibilities, and all the ways these changes interact. So just shhh.

People played the beta and season 1 and had access to the frame data and *most assumptions were dead wrong* - and now people think they know something without even playing?

The arrogance of some people just blows my mind. As if you could read these notes in 10 minutes and out-analyze the team at Capcom. Practice some humility, seriously. If these notes make you want to quit than good riddance, damn.
 
Kinda dangerous is an understatement. It is not a fireball counter move because its startup and recovery are too long. Now with the damage preservation buff, opponents might tend to drop the zoning game and advance towards her when she absorbs one fireball. But, if they just want to throw fireballs from across the screen, Mika will stand in place, accumulating gray damage and potentially getting hit because of the recovery.

I wonder if the whole thing needs a revamp. Her V-Skill is such a nonstarter. My thought was, remove the OHKO aspect of the whole speech and make it more of the charge bar in older SNK games. Her speech can start and stop many times while maintaining the 'charge' and maxes out at a 'next throw XX% damage boost'. Starting over at 0% every time and hoping to god that they don't tap you is...I dunno. It's in character but it's dumb.

I realize I'm not a fighter developer so who knows, that might be absurd to consider but I need something to do while I mourn cr.HP.
 
Other than making screw smash a motion spacial it doesn't look like the changes to Balrog will effect my style too much.
 
Bro, it was -4 when done point blank, and it had 6 active frames so at best, it would be +2 oB.

Now it's -6 at point blank, so it would be neutral oB at best

So? Distance factoring in goes for a lot of moves. It was still punishable on block, which joe wasn't aware of.
 
So? Distance factoring in goes for a lot of moves. It was still punishable on block, which joe wasn't aware of.

But it wasn't really punishable unless you did it point blank which no Mika has done since April. Every Mika's become good enough to space it out enough so that even if it it is minus, it's still safe.
 
But it wasn't really punishable unless you did it point blank which no Mika has done since April. Every Mika's become good enough to space it out enough so that even if it it is -, it's still safe.

Yes, but that's clearly not what the person I was responding to was talking about. We can't just ignore the actual frame data of a move because players have found a way to mitigate it. That goes for any attack.
 
I was responding to this post.
It was punishable in the same way Necalli's st.hk was punishable. Only when done point blank, which no one does anymore.

I'm just trying to say that it wasn't punishable before, and that claiming that it was is semantics.

It's not semantics when it's actually punishable. Mikas still did misplaced cr.HPs that got punished in S1. That happened at Capcom Cup. That sometimes happens with Necalli's st.HK. That happens with any move that is punishable, which is why we call it "punishable." If you're just going to think of it as "unpunishable," then you're going to be like the opponents joe was facing who don't punish a move that should be punished at any distance it is executed. That isn't the way to think about these things at all.
 
Was bison buffed?

Otherwise I don't care

Yeah, he got a few buffs. He has a 3 frame s.LK now, c.MP is a better poke with s.MP getting a bit weaker, s.HP got a bit more range, all scissor kicks are now faster in VT (so you don't need to drop down a strength when canceling from a normal), his target combo is an actual combo now (though very unsafe), VT stomp is now fully invincible, you can combo L Blast after H Inferno, and df.HP now has a juggle point (but is 2 frames slower). That's the main stuff.
 
It's not semantics when it's actually punishable. Mikas still did misplaced cr.HPs that got punished in S1. That happened at Capcom Cup. That sometimes happens with Necalli's st.HK. That happens with any move that is punishable, which is why we call it "punishable." If you're just going to think of it as "unpunishable," then you're going to be like the opponents joe was facing who don't punish a move that should be punished at any distance it is executed. That isn't the way to think about these things at all.
Except in the case of Mika's cr.hp, 95/100 times it was. Again when done point blank, yes it was punishable but that was a situation so rare that it really is a show of skill by the player that they managed to identify and punish it.

But in the vast majority of cases, that move did not connect at a time that the move can be punished. And when you're playing an opponent who realizes that and is aware of the spacing to make that move less punishable on block, then why would I try to go for a punish when chances are my button will get blocked and my throw will get teched as has happened a tremendous amount of times).

You're looking at the few instances where that button was punished point blank but not at the hundreds of other instances where it wasn't. Surely you can understand that when an opponent has been conditioned to respect that move, they won't try to punish it unless they're absolutely sure that they can get away it.

I thought of it as unpunishable because the many instances where I try to punish with a jab that got stuffed/traded/blocked have conditioned me towards this. There's a reason people complained about that move, there's a reason that capcom nerfed it oB.
 
I think of it as unpunishable as the many instances where I try to punish with a jab that got stuffed/traded/blocked have conditioned me towards this. There's a reason people complained about that move, there's a reason that capcom nerfed it oB.

That's why I think of it as "punishable on block, except that changes based on the distance the opponent performs the move." Of course the move should have been nerfed, but it's dumb to think of a move as simply "unpunishable" because most of the time an opponent will space it correctly.

Keeping in mind all possibilities and conditions of a move is how you make the most of a situation. Not thinking "Welp, nothing I can do about this regardless of the situation, so I'll just block." If I were to throw out a percentage for S1, Mikas would probably only land the +1 variation of cr.HP 30-40% of the time, because that was situational, using lights as a measuring stick. In neutral, it was usually -1 or 0. If all you do is block in that situation because it "can't be punished," the Mika will just command grab you with a 100% success rate as a follow-up because you're respecting it too much.

That goes for any other similar type of move, like Urien's tackles.
 
Worried about the Chun nerfs but as someone who couldn't reliably pull off IALL and didn't use cr.lp much hopefully it won't hurt my game too much.

Happy about some of the Ken and Mika nerfs, hopefully they won't be so irritating to fight now!
 
That's why I think of it as "punishable on block, except that changes based on the distance the opponent performs the move." Of course the move should have been nerfed, but it's dumb to think of a move as simply "unpunishable" because most of the time an opponent will space it correctly.

Keeping in mind all possibilities and conditions of a move is how you make the most of a situation. Not thinking "Welp, nothing I can do about this regardless of the situation, so I'll just block." If I were to throw out a percentage for S1, Mikas would probably only land the +1 variation of cr.HP 30-40% of the time, because that was situational, using lights as a measuring stick. In neutral, it was usually -1 or 0. If all you do is block in that situation because it "can't be punished," the Mika will just command grab you with a 100% success rate as a follow-up because you're respecting it too much.

That goes for any other similar type of move, like Urien's tackles.
All of this just makes me happy that I don't have to fear Mika as much anymore quite frankly.

And let's not compare a move like Urien's tackles or quite frankly anything else with the S1 cr.hp as nothing truly compares.
 
Maybe I'm the crazy one but I find the reactions to Season 2 really embarrassing. Looking at this PDF and deciding exactly what it means is fucking HILARIOUS. I'm sorry - you're not as smart as you think you are. You can't see all the possibilities, and all the ways these changes interact. So just shhh.

People played the beta and season 1 and had access to the frame data and *most assumptions were dead wrong* - and now people think they know something without even playing?

The arrogance of some people just blows my mind. As if you could read these notes in 10 minutes and out-analyze the team at Capcom. Practice some humility, seriously. If these notes make you want to quit than good riddance, damn.

This.

History loves repeating itself.

And people love forgetting how history keeps repeating itself.

It's almost inevitable that at least ONE of the "destroyed" characters will end up being REALLY good. It always happens.
 
It's actually looking like she'll be even easier to counter poke, making her already sketchy footsies even more sketch. You'll probably be seeing st mk a little bit less for instance. While they buffed the hit advantage, allowing for her to just straight up link to st/cr lp and st/cr lk without counter hit (while allowing linking to cr mp on counter hit(insane) the on block disadvantage is now as risky as Laura having her lp elbow, former cr lk, st hp, and f+ hp blocked. Instant 50/50 not in Laura's favor. And if she tries to use the counter hit setup with st mk~st lk and the st mk is blocked, because of the buff to the hurtbox and the nerf to the hitbox of the st lk, she'll most likely get counter hit for trying. Her jumping mk and st hk received similar nerfs/buffs in the hitbox/hurtbox department.

With her fireball also generating less meter, as insane as it looks on paper, she's probably really going to need that overhead!

Agree with most of this. The Laura changes are really pushing for players to use her riskier than trying to play a solid neutral game. These types of normal nerfs were all over the place with other characters though so I'm not totally sure what they're going for. Overall they've nerfed her ground game, so I'm not sure how exactly were supposed to contest against Chun/Karin in the footsies section..

While her overhead being + is a cool buff, it promotes players to.. actually use it more when it's still -7 and they added extra hurtboxes on it so it could trade more often lol. Really and truly her overhead is an online classic. I've lost a few tournament matches by thinking it was a good idea to use it at any point of the match except for if it's meaty lol.

The buffs to her regular command throws are great as well. 5f start up and extra damage. Again it's promoting riskier play in using it, but it'll be better for tick-command throws. Ex command throw being projectile invincible finally gives it some great use. Really good buff for her, it'll make a few of her problem matchups a bit more accessible. For example, against Guile you really don't have a great way to get in vs her V-Skill Booms, If you jump -> flash kick, her walkspeed is really poor so you don't make much ground in trying to walk forward against Guile's projectile pressure. Having the ex command throw through the V-Skill boom makes the matchup a bit better, but it'll still be a tough one.

Her cr.LP having an additional +1 of hitstun is a great change. Gives her a valid empty jump low option.

I really don't get the change to her target combo being +2 on hit lol, unless if TC on counter hit are registered for the 2nd attack as well then it's good. (someone answer this for me pls)

Her two HP target combo being a frame faster is good. Better for poking with and great if you can hit confirm it into HP Elbow.

Ex Thunderclap juggles a bit better. Cool change, makes her a bit more consistent.

Overall, she's still a good character. Her neutral game got a bit worse IMO with her go-to pokes getting bodied. I don't feel like they really fixed her main issues with this patch. St.MP is still just okay as an AA. HP Elbow is still gonna get stuffed or trade with tons of jump-ins unless done at the height of their jump arc. She'll still lose the matchups she lost to before IMO.

The biggest buffs for her (and every other grappler) were the system changes IMO. No more worrying about DP's through blockstrings or during oki situations, some characters lost their throw loops, grey life going down slower is a plus and the input lag is still at 6.5 frames so when you thought you jumped, you actually didn't so you still have to hold the command throw lmao.

tl;dr, nerfed her neutral game and promoted more risky/ham type gameplay. buffed indirectly by characters losing invul on their DP's so less second guessing between baiting and attacking on their wakeup and between blockstrings. Can't really tell if overall she's a much better character, but with the top tiers getting nerfed a bit, she should have a good spot on the tier list instead of potential bottom 5.
 
All of this just makes me happy that I don't have to fear Mika as much anymore quite frankly.

And let's not compare a move like Urien's tackles or quite frankly anything else with the S1 cr.hp as nothing truly compares.

Huh? Urien's tackles change block advantage depending on the distance, just like Mika's cr.HP. Again, just like many other moves. That was my entire point in saying thinking of any move that is punishable on paper as "unpunishable" because a player can mitigate it is dumb.

You're focusing too much on the cr.HP, which was—in fact—punishable just like other moves that operate the same. It being able to be mitigated more often doesn't change that. It's why it got nerfed in the first place.
 
Huh? Urien's tackles change block advantage depending on the distance, just like Mika's cr.HP. Again, just like many other moves. That was my entire point in saying thinking of any move that is punishable on paper as "unpunishable" because a player can mitigate it is dumb.
I'm sorry but I'm just too tired to do this right now.

Clearly I'm not getting my point across well enough when I'm talking about unpunishable. Fine, that move was not unpunishable.
 
Any big changes to Ibuki? I main her and damn, does she takes damage.
Yes, health increased, s.mk buff, ex raida buff, kunai recharge buff, new ex kunai recharge, can attack from kite now, c.lk c.lp chains now so you can get ex kunai or VTrigger combos from a low midscreen
 
Yes, health increased, s.mk buff, ex raida buff, kunai recharge buff, new ex kunai recharge, can attack from kite now, c.lk c.lp chains now so you can get ex kunai or VTrigger combos from a low midscreen
This all sounds good. EX kunai reload sounds awesome
 
I'd say gutting his low strong anti-air and making toward fierce and slide much easier to punish are pretty "hard" nerfs, though stand strong seems pretty crazy, now.

And stand short was (and as far as can be seen from the notes, still is) 4 frames, making it the lone one.

cr.mp still should serve as the AA directly under him like it did before but I'd need to check it out for myself. His command moves weren't terribly good to begin with so the nerfs to them aren't as bad.

The hard nerf would be the overhead, if anything.
 
It seems everyone is getting buffs and nerfs. Some of the obvious OP shit is gone - but people need to look at how everyone else is getting nerfed before claiming to drop their main.

Cammy's st.MP is +3 and has less pushback - now wtf is THAT for?
 
You'll never take my Mika away from me. I'll adapt, I did it before when I felt like Cammy wasnt up to snuff for me in SFV and I'll do it again to learn the new Mika and the new cammy and maybe give Ibuki a real hard try once more.
 
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