DryEyeRelief
Member
CountAntonius said:Boxart is out:
No infamous guy?
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Street Fighter X Tekken PC Coming, Console Release Mar 6 [Like ME3/XCOM/Ghost Recon]
- Thread starter CountAntonius
- Start date
No infamous guy?
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Heh. I wonder if in 10 years when Street Fighter VI comes out, everybody who started playing with SFIV will wax on about how Capcom clearly can't design fighting games, and has no idea how to replicate the success of SFIV.
I think the truth of the matter is that taking sports analogies too literally is misleading. The nature of what we're dealing with here cannot be like baseball or soccer. Not right now, anyway. Video game "athletes" are more like polymath athletes. You may see an exceedingly high level of play from people who literally only ever play one game, but in general, most people's skill in video games is meta contextual. It's based in their overall knowledge of game systems and how to compete with other players behind the controls of any given system.
Problem is, I'm not entirely sure if I'd want a fighting game "sport" where there was only one game that everyone played with one unified set of rules. The issue there, is that over time, evolution of the game and demand for ever more standardization to make it "competitive" would likely turn it into a literal unadorned virtual sport - the games would basically be MMA simulators with two human guys who essentially look the same, move the same, play the same. And then we may as well all be playing boxing games.
I am not sure you COULD make what fighting games are competitive in the ideal way some theorize about. These are virtual worlds predicated not on simulating a perfect competitive sport as we understand it in real life (well, except for the boxing sims). These games involve experimentation, what if scenarios, and trying to think up novel game systems for the sake of designing game systems.
The odd part is, why don't we see competitive video games compared to their more apt cousins, tabletop board games? There is no such thing as a standardized world board game and there are a dizzying array of games, with new ones created every year. People sure do play those competitively. Some do focus on single games. Others go poly and focus on being an overall game authority even if they lose some edge of specialization in most games.
I think the truth of the matter is that taking sports analogies too literally is misleading. The nature of what we're dealing with here cannot be like baseball or soccer. Not right now, anyway. Video game "athletes" are more like polymath athletes. You may see an exceedingly high level of play from people who literally only ever play one game, but in general, most people's skill in video games is meta contextual. It's based in their overall knowledge of game systems and how to compete with other players behind the controls of any given system.
Problem is, I'm not entirely sure if I'd want a fighting game "sport" where there was only one game that everyone played with one unified set of rules. The issue there, is that over time, evolution of the game and demand for ever more standardization to make it "competitive" would likely turn it into a literal unadorned virtual sport - the games would basically be MMA simulators with two human guys who essentially look the same, move the same, play the same. And then we may as well all be playing boxing games.
I am not sure you COULD make what fighting games are competitive in the ideal way some theorize about. These are virtual worlds predicated not on simulating a perfect competitive sport as we understand it in real life (well, except for the boxing sims). These games involve experimentation, what if scenarios, and trying to think up novel game systems for the sake of designing game systems.
The odd part is, why don't we see competitive video games compared to their more apt cousins, tabletop board games? There is no such thing as a standardized world board game and there are a dizzying array of games, with new ones created every year. People sure do play those competitively. Some do focus on single games. Others go poly and focus on being an overall game authority even if they lose some edge of specialization in most games.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Skilletor said:
Well all I can say is the few times I have been there, I have been so put off Id rather discuss the same topics elsewhere.
Just re-watched that gem trailer. Game looks great imo.
I think I will end up having two teams consisting of Hwoarang + Lili and Nina + Yoshimitsu and/or Poison. Nina's gameplay doesn't look particularly outstanding from the videos but she's my main in Tekken so I may as well stick with her. Hwoarang, Lili, Yoshi and Poison, on the other hand, all look amazing.
I think I will end up having two teams consisting of Hwoarang + Lili and Nina + Yoshimitsu and/or Poison. Nina's gameplay doesn't look particularly outstanding from the videos but she's my main in Tekken so I may as well stick with her. Hwoarang, Lili, Yoshi and Poison, on the other hand, all look amazing.
And just like every time, 99% chance I'll end up using characters I never planned to use. >_<
Bowling Pin
Member
DryEyeRelief said:
Fixed.
Duxxy3
Member
Just reading up on this gem thing.
I don't see how this game can be played competitively with gems allowed, and apparantly it's made to be played with gems.
I don't even see the purpose of this - aside from money making. Isn't selling millions of copies on a fairly low budget not enough?
I don't see how this game can be played competitively with gems allowed, and apparantly it's made to be played with gems.
I don't even see the purpose of this - aside from money making. Isn't selling millions of copies on a fairly low budget not enough?
Professor Beef
Banned
Swag.Eiji said:
"U mad?"
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Duxxy3 said:
this.
Capcom has made fighting games with "customizable styles" before. But the revelation of hundreds of gems, pre-ordernaneghans, DLC plans just looked more like a money making scheme.
corporate cheerleader
Member
Bowling Pin said:
Excellent work.
akilshohen
Member
Don't think it would do too much, but I do remember one of my non fighting game friends talking about how there wasn't anything to do in MvC3 after all the artwork and endings were unlocked.kunonabi said:
This is me!kunonabi said:
CountAntonius
Member
Not sure why they are being so hardheaded about giving players a Pure Mode. No gems. Let tournaments and people play how they want.
CountAntonius said:
They probably figured a pure mode would result in less dlc. After all, pure mode would be the tournament standard and why would tournament players buy gems they aren't going to come across? Without a pure mode, they would have to buy every gem to prepare for a tourney.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Competitive communities tend to be elitist.
With SRK putting articles like that out, I think it's a warning to Capcom that EVO will reject this game. It's not like there aren't plenty of viable options this time, unlike last year.
And I do think Capcom may have made the business calculation that mandatory gems= DLC monies, which will be more useful then the tourney crowd, which is starting to get stretched between games.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Is it bad that I find it fucking hilarious about tourney people bitching about having to buy gems and people having to buy gems, when I see every fucking major tourney and almost everyone that plays online with the fucking DLC costumes that dont do shit in sf4?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Once again. Isn't that why it's a little dumb?alstein said:
Professor Beef
Banned
The Smash/SFxTekken hypocrisy is so strong, it's delicious.
QisTopTier said:
People don't have problems with customizing their character's appearance, they have problems with being able to buy advantages. It makes perfect sense to me.
I really think a 3d fighting game could get by on a low cost, but plenty of costume DLC- I have a feeling VF is going to follow this model next year.
And yeah, the SRK/Smash thing is hypocrisy. Personally, I don't like Smash, it bores me to tears looking at it, but I don't have a problem with the players.
akilshohen
Member
Still more to do than what was in MvC3. I still think there's some modes not shown yet, from the recent Ono interview it seemed like there might be a story mode.sleepykyo said:
GotchaForce
Member
I'm going to spend 1600 allards and body Poongko next year at EVO!
Yoshi_OnoChin Yoshinori Ono
We'll be preparation aboutSFxTK's new playable after CES in LasVegas.I'll be around world wide city after it!Of course,I bring it's Rom! ;D
Oh man, it'd be great if they went dark from now until January. Everyone will have their pitchforks sharped to a razors edge.
Yoshi_OnoChin Yoshinori Ono
We'll be preparation aboutSFxTK's new playable after CES in LasVegas.I'll be around world wide city after it!Of course,I bring it's Rom! ;D
Oh man, it'd be great if they went dark from now until January. Everyone will have their pitchforks sharped to a razors edge.
CountAntonius
Member
Yeah I don't think people care about their being DLC just the fact that the DLC is potentially game breaking and potentially complicates the hell out of tournaments. Bit of a difference.QisTopTier said:
You know another odd thing is how they refuse to tell us how they are unlocked. Something tells me they are still figuring that out. Before he said it would be like collectibles so more you play more you unlock giving tournament organizers another head ache.
I really feel like Capcom themselves don't care about the tournament scene with this game at all but won't admit to it. Every single decision they have made thus far has been for online play pretty much. After reading the article I could really see Evo just bypassing it. There doesn't seem to be much mutual respect going on between Evo and Ono's team at the moment.
Professor Beef
Banned
All the SRK article did was reinforce my hatred of DLC. Make costumes DLC, not important game features.CountAntonius said:
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
...No?QisTopTier said:
What hypocrisy?Professor Beef said:
I am at a point where I think I should not get this game at all. I know how terrible Capcom can be when it comes to DLC and I fear for the worst. This really was my most anticipated fighting game but the Gem shit really killed any excitement. Well I guess I will just play UMvC3 and maybe KOF.
CountAntonius
Member
I was really hoping the gem system was just a way to customize the looks of characters. =(Professor Beef said:
Professor Beef
Banned
EVO on Brawl: Keep items in, let's have the game played how it's "supposed to be."Sixfortyfive said:
EVO on SFxT: Keep gems out, let's have the game played how we want it to be.
Mr Touchdown
Member
If they give us a parry Gem, then Hugo could be viable against Sagat.
Yeah at first I thought this whole Gem vs Item thing was similar. After reading more about it and doing more research on it... there's a different core problem here.
At least in Smash players were all fighting on equal footing in a match and the items could be accessed by both players. The problem with Gems is that they aren't equally distributed or available equally. There there is the issue of how tournament organizers actually acquire Gems, some of them or none of them. You go to a tournament and you don't know which Gems are going to be available and the ones that you customized your teams with there are an uncertainty (or possibly even banned).
This might not have been a problem if Gems were all available in the game and the game was balanced around it. This also isn't the case of DLC characters vs regular roster either because you call still play with the standard roster and be on equal footing but if you are missing out on that specific DLC gem that synergizes with your team then you are out of luck.
Right now I am in the camp of wait and see.
At least in Smash players were all fighting on equal footing in a match and the items could be accessed by both players. The problem with Gems is that they aren't equally distributed or available equally. There there is the issue of how tournament organizers actually acquire Gems, some of them or none of them. You go to a tournament and you don't know which Gems are going to be available and the ones that you customized your teams with there are an uncertainty (or possibly even banned).
This might not have been a problem if Gems were all available in the game and the game was balanced around it. This also isn't the case of DLC characters vs regular roster either because you call still play with the standard roster and be on equal footing but if you are missing out on that specific DLC gem that synergizes with your team then you are out of luck.
Right now I am in the camp of wait and see.
corporate cheerleader
Member
Another obvious thing: items in Smash appear at random times and random places. Gems don't appear at random times afawk and are triggered by special conditions.
This is what I said before. Don't brag about a customizable experience if your going to put limits on the shit people actually want. Hell if you want to make comparisons, Smash does this right with items. They put hard work into making all of those items, but at the end of the day they let the final destination crowd have their way. And that says a lot because Nintendo gives the least number of fucks when it comes to making Smash competitive or caring about it's community.CountAntonius said:
SFxT's gem strategy is counterintuitive.
SolarPowered
Member
Pretty much this right here.enzo_gt said:
Tizoc
Member
IMHO, you may be able to play the game without gems-
After selecting your character you choose the gems you want; I think you can still play without the gems.
Now offline this isn't an issue; the issue is when playing online, wherein there should be an option to disable gems for those that don't want to play with it.
After selecting your character you choose the gems you want; I think you can still play without the gems.
Now offline this isn't an issue; the issue is when playing online, wherein there should be an option to disable gems for those that don't want to play with it.
scytheavatar
Member
Dahbomb said:
Even ignoring the gems there has been a ton of negative preview built reviews for SFxT. Just read what some guys think of this game:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/sfxt-la-fight-night-review.146346/
http://www.shoryuken.com/forum/inde...mpressions-with-dat-nycc-flavor.143986/page-6
http://www.shoryuken.com/forum/inde...ite-up-character-gameplay-impressions.146912/
Of course the game is still in development and should change but a lot of these issues (Cross Assult being random and uncontrollable, Cross Arts being too powerful, game is sluggish and boring) seem to be major issues that will break the game even before those stupid gems come into play. Pandora being a stupid gimmick just shows how Ono has lost it and is just tossing random mechanics in an attempt to hide how lacking direction the game is at the moment.
I mean, when you think of it CvS2 did a remarkable job of combining KOF gameplay with SFA3 gameplay. You would think that SF x T would be about combining SF gameplay with Tekken gameplay, but so far the Tekken elements seem to be limited and a lot more effort has been put in stupid tag team crap and crap like gems seem to be an unnecessary complication that add no depth to gameplay.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
scytheavatar said:
the bolded is especially true.
I played a build in early sept at capcoms fight club and my first instinct was the tekken characters felt "off". while I understand this game was never going to be 1:1 with tekken games, there still seemed to be something missing, specifically for steve, but also raven and yoshi (my three most played tekken characters outside of bryan)
From what Ive read, I played the E3 build which actually supposed to be BETTER than the current ones.
I can't even imagine how its going to feel with the gem system.
General Shank-a-snatch said:
that's more what I was expecting. Right now, based on what I played, this is more SFIV with tekken cameos than a hybrid of the two.
Terareflection
Member
Well, of course the tekken characters feel off, the KOF character in CVS felt off to most SNK fans too.ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
corporate cheerleader
Member
CVS didn't really control like an SNK nor a Capcom game. It felt a bit light.
BamYouHaveAids
Member
SC isn't popular in the American figihting game scene, actually 3d fighter in general aren't popular in the American fighting game scene. No way it is the number 2 game at evo, it will replace Tekken but probably be around number 5 or so.alstein said:
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Just wanna point out that Ono is a producer, hes not the one designing the game. Rather, hes the spokesperson and cheerleader designated by Capcom.
So, whenever you people argue about design decisions, you should probably direct your ire at people like Tsukamoto (director) Kawasaki and Matsuyama (game designers), Okada (lead battle designer) or Oda (battle designer). Those were the people who worked on SF IV and are probably working on this one too.
A producer? His job is extremely important cause he sells the game to the Capcom brass, the general public, puts the team together and manages them from a high level and has a big say in the roster, but dont pretend the gem system is Ono, or that the Cross Arts being funky is Ono ... The guys job right now is to travel and sell the game, which is obvious if you follow his twitter account.
So, whenever you people argue about design decisions, you should probably direct your ire at people like Tsukamoto (director) Kawasaki and Matsuyama (game designers), Okada (lead battle designer) or Oda (battle designer). Those were the people who worked on SF IV and are probably working on this one too.
A producer? His job is extremely important cause he sells the game to the Capcom brass, the general public, puts the team together and manages them from a high level and has a big say in the roster, but dont pretend the gem system is Ono, or that the Cross Arts being funky is Ono ... The guys job right now is to travel and sell the game, which is obvious if you follow his twitter account.