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Suicide is Selfish

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I can understand being upset if someone you're close to dies from suicide. I've had it touch a lot of people really close to me directly, so I've seen that pain it causes indirectly. But as someone who has struggled with depression all my life I sympathize with those people. It's a complicated issue, and boiling it down to "they're selfish!" is just... really unfair.

But to be honset most of the ways we attempt to deal with death aren't really good.
 
a lot of things are selfish. I don't like saying suicide is selfish, because quite honestly I'm not in that persons shoes, I can't judge at all.
 
You think someone would think that? Even if they had young children?

Most common thought in the world for someone who is routinely suicidal. The depression has convinced them that not only don't they deserve to live, but that everyone who loves them would be happier in the long run if they were dead. I have a friend, who is a father of two (ages 10 and 12), who expressed this exact sentiment to me last week.

Depression wrecks your judgement.
 
I constantly have the urge to drive into oncoming traffic or into a brick wall or a tree or off a bride. It seems like the easiest way to die.

It'd be selfish because I'd could kill more than myself but the idea of driving towards headlights and then everything ceasing is cathartic.
 
When I was suicidal I thought that I was genuinely harming those around me, and that killing myself would make their lives better. Though I wasn't a typical case, I didn't kill myself because of my own inner pain or turmoil, I was depressed by how my life was impacting those around me and feeling entirely useless.

But I did think that removing myself (whom I thought cancerous) from the equation, would help. I genuinely from the bottom of my heart thought that it would be better to go out at 19 and end it early than hang around for years and continue to hurt people. It was not at all a selfish act. Everything I nearly did I was going to do for those that I loved.
 
devo, i'm with you on this - it's some judgmental shit, often i assume a way for close ones (or not even close) to process the guilt for it coming to that

growing up with religion, you'd often here "god never gives a man more than he can handle"..which is fucking obviously not the case, as that amount is subjective to the person, and at the point that they decide to end themselves, it's safe to say it was more than that
 
It's as bad as telling depressed people "Just snap out of it! Try to be happy instead."

Which is to say, pure bullshit. Why would it be selfish to want to die, but not to force someone else to live against their wishes?

And saying it's due to cowardice, when in fact it's the hardest and most meaninfgul decision one could ever make in their lives? That's bullshit too.

So yeah, I completely agree with the OP. You WON'T help depressed or suicidal people with those words. In fact, you'll make them feel less understood and more prone to keep having those thoughts, and if they are unfortunate enough, maybe to decide to act upon them.
 
I constantly have the urge to drive into oncoming traffic or into a brick wall or a tree or off a bride. It seems like the easiest way to die.

It'd be selfish because I'd could kill more than myself but the idea of driving towards headlights and then everything ceasing is cathartic.

I thought about this every day on my way home for two years. It's a pretty normal response to overwhelming depression and anxiety. One of the uses of suicidal ideation is that it allows us to feel like we're in control, that we can stop what's hurting us at any time. It's not a particularly healthy way to approach life, but it's also not uncommon. It helps you get through a day, until you're ready to go get professional help (which I wholeheartedly recommend).
 
don't agree. it's selfish because the idea that their pain is somehow greater than what other people experience. killing themselves puts a huge burden on so many people around them. when you're depressed, you're not seeing this shit right to begin with and it certainly feels that way, but I think its true for very few people. it's just an easy way out, and usually you think no one will care that you're gone.

i've dealt with a too much suicide and the toll it takes on people around them is always far greater than they want to think it will be. In one case it has started to cascade onto other people. I'm not saying that it isn't a valid option for some people -- it is. however, it still has a huge impact on other people.
 
I would reserve judgement on a case by case basis.

I'm mostly ignorant about this, but is there a cure for depression, or can people live with via treatment/medication? Based on that wiki of major depressive disorders, a small percentage (3.4%) commit suicide. The suicidal person may feel that there is no other way, but if they know another option available out there, I think the harder/more courageous thing to do would be to keep going. Again, circumstances differ from person to person.

One thing I will say is that you can't stop a family member from thinking they are selfish. If they have provided support, guidance, or wanted to care for the person, they are entitled to feel betrayed, and you can't judge them for that either. You certainly don't have to consider the feelings of others, but don't blame others for calling you inconsiderate.
 
don't agree. it's selfish because the idea that their pain is somehow greater than what other people experience. killing themselves puts a huge burden on so many people around them. when you're depressed, you're not seeing this shit right to begin with and it certainly feels that way, but I think its true for very few people. it's just an easy way out, and usually you think no one will care that you're gone.

i've dealt with a too much suicide and the toll it takes on people around them is always far greater than they want to think it will be. In one case it has started to cascade onto other people. I'm not saying that it isn't a valid option for some people -- it is. however, it still has a huge impact on other people.

No it isn't.
 
In a way it is, your family and friends depend on you for stuff and you killed yourself foryour own reasons.
 
don't agree. it's selfish because the idea that their pain is somehow greater than what other people experience. killing themselves puts a huge burden on so many people around them. when you're depressed, you're not seeing this shit right to begin with and it certainly feels that way, but I think its true for very few people. it's just an easy way out, and usually you think no one will care that you're gone.

i've dealt with a too much suicide and the toll it takes on people around them is always far greater than they want to think it will be. In one case it has started to cascade onto other people. I'm not saying that it isn't a valid option for some people -- it is. however, it still has a huge impact on other people.
So you're saying that the excruciating pain the suicidal person is suffering is less important than the well being of the people around them. Isn't that selfish from their part, to want that person to keep living and suffering?

And I wouldn't say that ending your own life is easy. Not in the slightest.
 
So you're saying that the excruciating pain the suicidal person is suffering is less important than the well being of the people around them. Isn't that selfish from their part, to want that person to keep living and suffering?

And I wouldn't say that ending your own life is easy. Not in the slightest.

Agreed - moreover, the pain of a loved one suicide will diminish, while that of the suffering living may not.

Everyone who posts that "permanent solution/temporary problem" quote is ignoring the fact that many of the problems that motivate suicide are in fact not at all temporary but permanent, or at the very least indefinite with a good chance of permanence.
 
As someone with major depression, it gets old
tiQgD.jpg

Man oh man at that image. Kinda sad how true that is.

This thread makes me sad. Suicide is okay now? *sigh*


This post makes me sad. Reading is Fundamental.
 
How is suicide the easy way out? It's the hardest decision you make in your life. I cannot take anyone seriously if they say this.
 
Saying sucide is not selfish because you don't owe your existence to anyone basically just says selfishness itself does not exist. Why should I let that person get in front of me? I don't owe him anything. Why should I push that person out of the way of that car? I don't owe him anything.

The act itself is selfish. That's all there is to it. It is getting rid of the problem for the person doing it while intensifying it for those that care about him/her. I'm not going to call somebody who is experiencing depression or feeling suicidal selfish or cowardly. That's bad taste. What I'm saying is the act of suicide itself is inherently selfish. That's not to belittle it or what led to it.
 
I try not to think of behaviors in terms of descriptors like that. To me behaviors are done because either A) there was an antecedent that made the behavior possible, B) the behavior has been reinforced, C) The behavior occurs because at some point classical conditioning has occurred.

Saying a suicide is selfish or saying that a man robbed a bank because he was evil does not help anyone. If someone does commit suicide theres a good chance that there was an antecedent such as a divorce, some kind of work trouble, etc.

Now, with that being said there is the grieving process. A part of it is going between feeling angry, depressed, or you could go through denial and feel isolated. So the set up starts up again. The antecedent was that somebody killed themselves, the person grieving is going through the grieving process because of this. labeling the act as selfish might be reinfceing because it gives them an excess, it gives them denial. But what this person really needs is acceptance which is the conclusion of the grieving process.
 
And how is it selfish? Do I owe my existence to anyone other than myself? Fuck right off.

How about you fuck right off. Suicide brings a huge amount of misery to everyone who care about the individual who commit suicide. The person who commits suicide have a direct effects on other people´s lives. the only way that suicide is not selfish is that no one would care about the individual who commits suicide.

Blah blah i am free to kill myself, the only only consequence is i won´t be around to see all the misery that my suicide caused, and miserable the the family and friends will be.
 
It's nothing that needs to be said. People considering suicide already probably beat themselves up mentally and possibly physically. Just what a depressed suicidal person needs, more shame and guilt. That's real helpful. As a person who suffers from Major Depression and suicidal ideation, that shit does nothing for my self-efficacy. Guilt and Shame are not good incentives to live a miserable life, those people will judy end up trying to kill themselves again. My family shamed me, it didn't stop later suicide attempts. A person needs a good tangible reason to keep living, otherwise when they are at their lowest and see no way out, guilt won't be enough to hold them back. I think it's selfish to force someone to live, just for the sake of living, when they are in pain. I'm not justifying suicide, it's inherently irrational. If you don't understand the mental state of a suicidal person, then you really have no understanding of the subject.
 
Suicide is extremely selfish and arguably cowardly depending on the situation. This isn't so much an opinion as a matter of fact. That being said it is perhaps not very effective or advisable a statement if your goal is to persuade or convince people against committing suicide. Shame and admonishment being a technique that is likely already in-effect by the depressed and not a great motivator against taking self-harming actions.
 
It's a mental problem and not even your assholish self righteous words will change their situation/mental psyche in a positive way. I think getting correct meds with counseling is one of those solutions.
 
Also I don't think most of the people who are considering suicide are in the right state of mind to judge whether everyone around them would be better off without them. In fact I feel like it is often the opposite, given the existence of mental disorder and many of the personal accounts given by those who have recovered or been saved from suicide attempts.
 
Suicide is extremely selfish and arguably cowardly depending on the situation. This isn't so much an opinion as a matter of fact. That being said it is perhaps not very effective or advisable a statement if your goal is to persuade or convince people against committing suicide. Shame and admonishment being a technique that is likely already in-effect by the depressed and not a great motivator against taking self-harming actions.

It's definitely an opinion. Your opinion, and not one which I share (At last not in all situations). Terminally ill people should be allowed to commit suicide, for example.

Also, it's a mental problem in many cases.
 
I believe the definition of selfish covers most suicides. Whether as an act it may be deemed 'justified' or not is difficult to impossible to determine given that everyone lives their own journey and has their own perception of events. However, it is still often a selfish act by not only my opinion but the very definition of the word. I agree terminally ill people should be allowed to commit suicide. I suppose a good qualifier is needed to separate assisted suicide and what many would consider unnecessary death by self.
 
Suicide is selfish if you have small kids unable to care for themselves. Then again, if you're suicidal, you probably shouldn't have kids anyway.

Otherwise, it's your life, not the life of your relatives or friends.

Although I do think it's interesting that most people who were stopped from committing suicide apparently are not going to try again.
i.e. barriers on one bridge prevent people from jumping, people go home and continue living, instead of just going to the next bridge.
 
Which takes us right back to square one, why does the daily pain of a terminal illness put suicide in a positive light, while someone with mental issues that put them through daily torment, or physical/mental abuse from people in their lives that puts them through daily torment, is seen as someone taking a coward's way out? These things are all people responding to unprecedented daily unpleasantness by opting out before their natural end.

Because in the case of a terminal illness all you are doing is accelerating the inevitable. Suicide is not the inevitable conclusion of severe mental illness.
 
I constantly have the urge to drive into oncoming traffic or into a brick wall or a tree or off a bride. It seems like the easiest way to die.

It'd be selfish because I'd could kill more than myself but the idea of driving towards headlights and then everything ceasing is cathartic.

Man, that would be one of the worst ways to go out.

I mean, maybe you die quickly from the whiplash or your head cracking against the windshield or something. Maybe.

Or maybe you sit there in a crumpled metal heap with a dozen broken bones and die slowly and in agony.

Maybe the safety systems work and you walk away from it. Well shit, now you just don't have a car.

Or maybe you live, but now you're a paraplegic on top of being horribly depressed.


Besides, no reason to break something expensive like a car to do it. Might as well leave it intact so your family can sell it or something. Even if it was a guaranteed quick end, I'd feel selfish wasting a perfectly good car.
 
Yeah it is.

But expecting a friend or loved one to continue to live in pain just so you don't have to lose them is pretty goddamn selfish too.

It depends.
 
Yeah it is.

But expecting a friend or loved one to continue to live in pain just so you don't have to lose them is pretty goddamn selfish too.

It depends.
This is exactly it and very succinctly put. It's not a black and white issue where one side is always right and the other is always wrong.

I think most people reject the implication that those who commit or attempt suicide are inherently weak of will or cowardly or otherwise imperfect, which is absolutely incorrect in my opinion. Everyone is imperfect and goes through moments of weakness and pain in their lives. Everyone makes good, bad, sacrificial and selfish choices too.

I don't believe suicide is a sin or believe in casting it in a damnable light to shame those who have considered it into submission. But I do believe it is a selfish act that many cases is one which is extremely ill-advised and regrettable. Those who are saved so often down the line recant and describe how grateful they are that they were not successful in their plan to end their life and that they have been given a second chance. So often people believe their life is ruined when second chances may simply often be nothing more than a change in perspective.

How crazy is it that something as intangible and fluid as attitude and perspective can mean the difference between life and death?
 
Suicide is extremely selfish and arguably cowardly depending on the situation. This isn't so much an opinion as a matter of fact. That being said it is perhaps not very effective or advisable a statement if your goal is to persuade or convince people against committing suicide. Shame and admonishment being a technique that is likely already in-effect by the depressed and not a great motivator against taking self-harming actions.

You need to look up the definitions of fact and opinion, because I think you're confused. Making the decision to kill oneself is anything but "cowardly." Whether a person is in the right mental state to make that decision or not is debatable, but I consider it extremely brave to come to terms with the fact that "this is the end, there's no going back" or -- to put it more poetically -- stare death in the face and embrace it.

I've been there -- multiple times. After my grandfather -- who was like my father -- died two years ago, I attempted suicide twice. The first time, I was coming back from California after seeing him dying there in the bed and I rolled my car twice. Came out without a scratch. The second time a week later, I tied some cords to a door nob, threw them over the door, tied a noose and stuck my head in it and then jumped off the chair. I dangled there -- content with dying -- until the cord snapped and I fell to the ground feeling even more miserable than I did before.

I moved on and didn't tell anyone. You might say it's selfish, but I had no family, no real friends, my girlfriend broke up with me, I was kicked out of my house, about to lose my job and I was at the bottom of the blackest hole there is. I think it's selfish to ask someone with no commitments to anyone or anything to continue living a miserable existence just so your conscious can be clear. That is fucking selfish.

Less than a year ago, I fell into depression again. This time, I reached out to my girlfriend and to some "friends" and was met with "get over it" or "you'll be fine" or "go ahead and kill yourself and take the coward's way out." Some called me "weak." How do you tell someone that you wake up every morning feeling like you see no hope for your future and there's no way out of the pit? Or that you think about committing suicide every fucking day because you just can't take the misery anymore? And when you finally work up the nerve to reach out to someone and say "this is what's going on with me, will you help?" You're met with shit assholes like you calling someone a coward and selfish -- as if it's our decision to be so miserable to the point where death seems like the only escape.
 
It's definitely an opinion. Your opinion, and not one which I share (At last not in all situations). Terminally ill people should be allowed to commit suicide, for example.

Also, it's a mental problem in many cases.

Euthanasia is not suicide. It´s someone who has a huge incurable physical disease that puts him under an immeasurable amount of pain everyday and the person´s family can´t see the person suffer anymore, euthanasia would bring relief to the person and the person´s loved ones. That´s way too different than someone selfishly killing oneself because said person is depressed and puts one´s loved ones suffer and miserable for a long time. These 2 are not even close to be comparable.
 
And how is it selfish?

My dad killed himself. So, I know first hand why and how suicide is selfish.

Suicide causes permanent pain for loved ones left behind that stays for the rest of our lives. The people left behind have no choice in the matter (they are being forced to suffer), and live for the rest of their lives with the pain caused by the person who kills him/herself. A good example is my mom. She will not marry anyone because of the pain that still remains in her heart from his death and how he killed himself. Then there is the damage caused too my half brother, and the rest of my dad's family (not to mention my family). They all have scares from what happened, and when they talk about his death (30+ years later), you would almost think it just happened a few weeks or months ago.

Also, when a person kills themselves, they are robbing people of all the blessings they would be bringing into their lives. I missed out on having a dad by my side as I grew up. My mom missed out on having her best friend be by her side (and vice versa) as they went through their lives together.

My dad had multiple opportunities to get help, and he refused them all. He didn't want to change, but instead chose to remain depressed and isolated. We lost out on such an amazing person, and he lost out on getting to live life filled with people that loved him.
 
Euthanasia is not suicide. It´s someone who has a huge incurable physical disease that puts him under an immeasurable amount of pain everyday and the person´s family can´t see the person suffer anymore, euthanasia would bring relief to the person and the person´s loved ones. That´s way too different than someone selfishly killing oneself because said person is depressed and puts one´s loved ones suffer and miserable for a long time. These 2 are not even close to be comparable.

And you don't think people with severe depression don't feel like this;

huge incurable physical disease that puts him under an immeasurable amount of pain everyday
 
Is anyone else tired of hearing this crap?

"Coward's way out."
"Suicide is for the selfish."
etc

It's just such a prevailing mode of thinking that only makes people feel worse about their depressed situation and yet people keep issuing these declarative statements. And how is it selfish? Do I owe my existence to anyone other than myself? Fuck right off. If someone has dependents, they're obviously in a state of mind that renders their thought process as "everyone will be better off without me." So why the bullshit judgement statement? Does it make people who say it feel better about themselves?

I think suicide is for the most part, not selfish. But reasonably, I think it can be, to an extent. Leaving children as orphans etc.
 
Yeah suicide is selfish. So is going out to buy something for yourself. And eating a delicacy. Even helping others is selfish in most cases. You are helping others probably because it makes you feel good. Would you help others if it made you feel like shit? Newsflash: everything we do is selfish in some way.
 
And you don't think people with severe depression don't feel like this;

He doesn't have to think, I do. Depression is no different than any other invisible disease. I feel much physical pain, "psychic pain" from the mental stress and direst. My whole body aches, I'm fatigued, constant headaches, sometimes my mind is like a fog making it very hard to focus. It's been like this for 5-6 years now. I'm only 22 and I feel like a fucking old man. No energy. No enthusiasm. No motivation. No fucking desire. Just numbness with the occasional trip to despair. And people wonder why I'm always high. . .
 
I had this belief once.

Then I got to the point of suicidal depression at a certain time of my life and obviously my outlook changed.


Now I have all the sympathy in the world for people that are in that dark place.
I was able to work through it, but I couldn't have done it without a wonderful support system.

It was simply ignorance on my part when I had that initial belief. I don't have ill feelings for people that do think that way, either. Many times it's hard to understand certain feelings until you experience them first-hand. It's also hard for people that aren't used to emotional/psychological disorders (i.e. they don't think they have them and/or haven't had to deal with people in their direct family that has them) to objectively stand back and realize getting to that point isn't simply 'being weak'.
 
You need to look up the definitions of fact and opinion, because I think you're confused. Making the decision to kill oneself is anything but "cowardly." Whether a person is in the right mental state to make that decision or not is debatable, but I consider it extremely brave to come to terms with the fact that "this is the end, there's no going back" or -- to put it more poetically -- stare death in the face and embrace it.
I would catch up to my more recent posts in the thread before you commit to this position. I still believe many suicides fit the definition of selfish and cowardly as a matter of fact as well as opinion but I understand if other people don't accept that for various reasons. One example would be that I would in many cases consider the choice to continue living to be much more brave than the choice to 'end it all' out of pain or fear. Suicide is a single choice that may be permanent but only lasts a moment in the life of the one who commits it. Choosing to continue living and struggling is a choice that is lifelong and is often met and fought every day in the face of those who deal with physical and emotional pain.

I've been there -- multiple times. After my grandfather -- who was like my father -- died two years ago, I attempted suicide twice. The first time, I was coming back from California after seeing him dying there in the bed and I rolled my car twice. Came out without a scratch. The second time a week later, I tied some cords to a door nob, threw them over the door, tied a noose and stuck my head in it and then jumped off the chair. I dangled there -- content with dying -- until the cord snapped and I fell to the ground feeling even more miserable than I did before.

I moved on and didn't tell anyone. You might say it's selfish, but I had no family, no real friends, my girlfriend broke up with me, I was kicked out of my house, about to lose my job and I was at the bottom of the blackest hole there is. I think it's selfish to ask someone with no commitments to anyone or anything to continue living a miserable existence just so your conscious can be clear. That is fucking selfish.

Less than a year ago, I fell into depression again. This time, I reached out to my girlfriend and to some "friends" and was met with "get over it" or "you'll be fine" or "go ahead and kill yourself and take the coward's way out." Some called me "weak." How do you tell someone that you wake up every morning feeling like you see no hope for your future and there's no way out of the pit? Or that you think about committing suicide every fucking day because you just can't take the misery anymore? And when you finally work up the nerve to reach out to someone and say "this is what's going on with me, will you help?" You're met with shit assholes like you calling someone a coward and selfish -- as if it's our decision to be so miserable to the point where death seems like the only escape.
I agree with your bolded statement just as much as I believe that suicide itself is selfish as well.

"get over it" and "go ahead and kill yourself, coward's way out" are awful lines of 'advice' that are toxic and poisionous to those already suffering depression and mental disorder characteristic of people who consider suicide. If you catch up with my more recent responses you would see that those who tell suicidal people they are'weak' or 'cowardic' or 'selfish' are not helping at all. The opinions and believed facts regarding the matter are irrelevant in these cases because the goal should be reaching the depressed or manic in a way that will convince them that life is worth living. Shaming them is not going to help at all and often accelerates the negative mindset they are already in.
 
And you don't think people with severe depression don't feel like this;

No, it´s not the same at all.

At the very least ones family would know of the suffering and be ok if one´s terminated his life in a hospital because of incurable painful disease of just painful disease that has been plaguing the person for years, instead of popping pills or shooting one self etc.....
 
If avoiding the description of 'selfish' regarding suicide and padding discussion in a more neutral or empathetic way leads to fewer suicides than I am all for it. The pursuit of what I believe is accuracy in definition is not more important to me than treating people who are suffering with respect and empathy so that they are not discouraged from continuing to live their lives.
 
I think it somewhat is. Though saying it to those who are depressed or contemplating really doesn't help. Just makes them feel worse.

Also, if there was a zombie outbreak and zombies were going to get you, I don't think suicide would be selfish! lol
 
I think it somewhat is. Though saying it to those who are depressed or contemplating really doesn't help. Just makes them feel worse.

Also, if there was a zombie outbreak and zombies were going to get you, I don't think suicide would be selfish! lol

How dare you deny the life-challenged of food!
 
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