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Super Mario Odyssey Announced (Holiday 2017)
- Thread starter FireBeaver
- Start date
Perfect
Dark Ninja
Member
So Super Mario Galaxy 3 is not an impossibility
hypotc
Member
You can see Mario do a sideflip in the trailer, the image cuts right after he does it. Cant remember where exact.
Edit: Around 01:57
It would be a graph saying "Real Paper Mario" and "Experimental mediocrity"
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Going by recent Miyamoto interviews, I think it will happen. Might even hit the Switch later on in its lifespan.
paragonpro
Banned
So this instantly shot up to my most anticipated game this year. Ive wanted a true exploration based mario for such a long time. I have the fondest memories of 64 and sunshine, id get lost for hours playing sunshine exploring every nook and cranny. This trailer made tear up a bit. Pathetic i know but fuck, thank nintendo so much for finally giving me the 3d mario in hd that ive always wanted
not to get all negative because I'm gonna play the fuck out of odyssey
but that top line has my favorite 3d mario games and that bottom line has my least favorite 3d mario games
suffice it to say I'd be so down for a galaxy 3 at some point during the switch's lifespan
ViewtifulJC
Banned
From the other thread: new footage of some of Mario's moveset shown off at the Japan event
Mario's cool hat>>>>>>F.L.U.D.D
I'm going to pretend these are also different Mario timelines.
OrbitalBeard
Member
We're getting the next evolution of 3D Zelda this year, the spiritual successor to Banjo Kazooie this year, and the next 64-style, exploration-based 3D Mario game this year.
2018, how on earth do you top this?
2018, how on earth do you top this?
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Aldric
Member
All 3D Marios were good in their own way. Except 3D World. What a huge blunder, thankfully it's all in the past now, let's never mention it again.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Sunshine has never been good
Jaguar Victory
Member
New Donk City - I don't think that means what they think.
Galactic Specter
Member
I hope the Donkey Kong character references in New Donk City aren't just name drops.
It'd be neat if actual DK characters showed up as NPCs.
It'd be neat if actual DK characters showed up as NPCs.
@NathanS
I remember this post and I thought it was very interesting.
I'm of two minds on it.
On the one hand I do wonder sometimes how different all of these games are from one another. At least from a very fundamental standpoint, when Mario is running and diving around SM64's first level and crashing into goombas I can't see much of a difference between that and similar snapshot moments in, say, 3D Land or Galaxy.
On the other hand I feel that there are crucial differences and in SMB3's case I think it a lot of it comes down to the precise nature of the gameplay. Even in a level where the pitfalls don't provide much of a threat SMB3 remains a little bit of a taskmaster, brilliant as it is. it doesn't feel like a playground to me personally because the process of tracking, avoiding, and hitting precise jumps on the little goomba blocks is demanding enough to preclude it. I think it's phenomenal design, but I don't know if I would describe it as a playground.
I think that in Galaxy and SM64 the bulk of the platforming manages to be engaging without necessarily being difficult or very precise. And in SMB3 it's engaging partly because it is precise and challenging. I mean SM64's Bowser stages don't even feel like 3D Land because of the lack of enemies and the more forgiving nature of the course. And they're linear, which supposedly means they should match right up.
Having said all that, I think it's interesting that SMB3, which is supposed to be the icon of pure platforming, stops the player to engage with all of these elements in the level in clever ways. So it does create these unique structures, abandons them by the end of the level to introduce something new, but it never betrays its core purpose of creating demanding gameplay at every moment. So I'm not really sure how to evaluate it. Maybe the only way is to look at the typical level in each game? Because individual levels can bleed in and out of each style.
I remember this post and I thought it was very interesting.
I'm of two minds on it.
On the one hand I do wonder sometimes how different all of these games are from one another. At least from a very fundamental standpoint, when Mario is running and diving around SM64's first level and crashing into goombas I can't see much of a difference between that and similar snapshot moments in, say, 3D Land or Galaxy.
On the other hand I feel that there are crucial differences and in SMB3's case I think it a lot of it comes down to the precise nature of the gameplay. Even in a level where the pitfalls don't provide much of a threat SMB3 remains a little bit of a taskmaster, brilliant as it is. it doesn't feel like a playground to me personally because the process of tracking, avoiding, and hitting precise jumps on the little goomba blocks is demanding enough to preclude it. I think it's phenomenal design, but I don't know if I would describe it as a playground.
I think that in Galaxy and SM64 the bulk of the platforming manages to be engaging without necessarily being difficult or very precise. And in SMB3 it's engaging partly because it is precise and challenging. I mean SM64's Bowser stages don't even feel like 3D Land because of the lack of enemies and the more forgiving nature of the course. And they're linear, which supposedly means they should match right up.
Having said all that, I think it's interesting that SMB3, which is supposed to be the icon of pure platforming, stops the player to engage with all of these elements in the level in clever ways. So it does create these unique structures, abandons them by the end of the level to introduce something new, but it never betrays its core purpose of creating demanding gameplay at every moment. So I'm not really sure how to evaluate it. Maybe the only way is to look at the typical level in each game? Because individual levels can bleed in and out of each style.
I enjoyed 3D World far less than the other Marios in the Yellow timeline. I think because I only played it singleplayer and the levels felt underwhelming compared to the tight levels of 3D Land and Galaxy 1 and 2.
The Illiterati
Member
I hated Mario Galaxy 1 and 2. The controls and camera were just unplayable for me. I liked 3D Land. Never played Sunshine or 3D World.
I just realized that for me the last good Mario game was 64. I think I don't like Mario games. That's quite a shock to realize when I loved them as a kid.
I would try Odyssey but I am going to try and never buy a Switch. I hate my Wii U and can't justify buying another cheap gimmick with poor support. Maybe if it drops 150 in price in a few years, but Nintendo of late has stopped dropping the price on their garbage consoles.
I just realized that for me the last good Mario game was 64. I think I don't like Mario games. That's quite a shock to realize when I loved them as a kid.
I would try Odyssey but I am going to try and never buy a Switch. I hate my Wii U and can't justify buying another cheap gimmick with poor support. Maybe if it drops 150 in price in a few years, but Nintendo of late has stopped dropping the price on their garbage consoles.
Don't really get the demand for Galaxy 3, even though Galaxy 1 was my game of the generation. You really want yet another glorified level expansion pack?
Spiritual sequels > direct sequels. I like established IP, but I don't want rehashes that naturally result in diminishing returns.
Spiritual sequels > direct sequels. I like established IP, but I don't want rehashes that naturally result in diminishing returns.
nogoodnamesleft
Banned
CharminUltra
Member
I'd love it if one of the worlds/dimensions you get to visit is NES SMB.
I feel with SMB3 you've fallen into the trap of seeing it as a game whose only goal is to beat it, which is very easy because of the lack of a save feature and that as mentioned in this interview it was made for more experienced players so it does ask more then say World which the interview points out is a beginner friendly game or 64 which throttled back at least in part because 3D was so new even to experienced gamers.
But because of that lack of a save as you build your skills in run through till you can beat it (though that they tell you about the warp whistles shows they expect you to eventually find them and that open the game up to hopping to your favorite world and getting right to the level you want to mess with, but that is hidden) and so as you go through old levels you can just do the same thing over and over, but it has to at least start getting you to realize hey, ”there's a lone brick right near that Koopa in 6-3, maybe I can carry him back over the bunch of one block wide pits and see what's in it!" Or for one that only gives it secret to the keen of eye and replaying the level at least once, 3-9 and carrying the Koopa from the start of the level past a bunch of Bullet bills to get at a blocked off pipe later in the level.*
Much as looking at only the minimum need to beat a course in 64 will leave people missing all the depth and most of the fun of that game, looking at a SMB3 as only a set of tight challenges miss a lot of it as well. Now of course why Miyamoto called the likes of 3D land more casual then 64 is if a player that doesn't want to dig into all the depth and only focus on the base challenges they'll get more out of the more focused game 3d Land then the looser 64 which is a lot more dull unless you dig into it, but that doesn't mean the same depth and playing around with layers** isn't there.
Like I said 64 and Sunshine make this much easier to see because by then you could save, go back to old levels there's no timer so it helps being that into focus, but when people dig into the games they spend time building up tight reactions and making use of the deliberately placed level features to get at the depth of the games, where 3 or 3D Land bring the deliberate beat of the levels and tight reactions into focus, but to really take all that the levels offer playing around with optional tasks and one off little interactions of messing around is needed. (what's 4-6*** without enjoying being able just switch between giant enemies and regular ones? Or exploring to see how 1-ups are hidden in different places in the two version of the level?) This is not to say there are not level that are far more straightforward then others, the Sky portion of Sky world holds more then a few. But then even 64 has it's Bowser levels.
*Have I mentioned I've played SMB3 a lot? So examples of that are kind of burned into my brain more readily then newer games like 3d Land.
**Our own Kirby Kid is where I got the term layers, and he does a great job laying out what they are and how they add depth here.
***Also a starman you can only get by backtracking and exploring the regular sized version of the level since you always start in the giant sized version..
TheRedSnifit
Member
BrownieBrownBrown
Neo Member
Game of Human Evolution
linear course 3d and open world 3d?
amazing they actually acknowledge this. most hyped I've been for a mario game since galaxy 1.
Chill Penguin
Member
You got 4 of them in 6 years. Open world Mario fans have been waiting 15 years. This game is so glorious and everything I've been waiting for. The course clear style was OK but for me there's something restrictive and claustrophobic about being lead down tunnels.
Godzilla's Left Toe
Member
Sunshine was rushed it's a D game
You must really hate "X-ing School" signs on real roads...
Alex
Member
I love the art, it's about time Mario had a little bit of an aesthetic shake up again. Mario games were almost starting to feel felt almost factory created with regards to the visuals, regardless of how cheery and charming they were. They can keep all their icons and tropes without having to clamp down on the same ol', same ol'.
MisterGrey3000
Member
Gonna post this anytime I see or hear somethin' akin to "The galaxy games were TRUE ambitious 3D Mario™ gamez like 64 and Sunshine!".
Also the top yellow line is GOAT, love those games; hopefully it won't take two generations for the Course Clear-style to make it's glorious return.
Having recently played them, I can say yes a lot of the missions were like that in the old sandbox Mario games.
The challenges often have Mario doing very simple situational miscellaneous things that either involve no platforming at all or just very rudimentary platforming (like simply destroying a Chain Chomp's pole to free him or shooting yourself at a wall to win).
Their spirit is closer to that of an action-adventure game.
Tightly focused, dense, action-heavy linear level design that resembles something you'd find in the SMG/3DWorld-style games are usually hidden away in their own special stages or boss areas.
It's probably a give or take kind of thing; you can't just plop Boiling Bully Belt into Lethal Lava Land without one of them suffering in some way. They have radically different design philosophies.
But hey I'm not a game designer so I could be proven wrong by somebody out there.
Gonna post this anytime I see or hear somethin' akin to "The galaxy games were TRUE ambitious 3D Mario gamez like 64 and Sunshine!".
Also the top yellow line is GOAT, love those games; hopefully it won't take two generations for the Course Clear-style to make it's glorious return.
Having recently played them, I can say yes a lot of the missions were like that in the old sandbox Mario games.
The challenges often have Mario doing very simple situational miscellaneous things that either involve no platforming at all or just very rudimentary platforming (like simply destroying a Chain Chomp's pole to free him or shooting yourself at a wall to win).
Their spirit is closer to that of an action-adventure game.
Tightly focused, dense, action-heavy linear level design that resembles something you'd find in the SMG/3DWorld-style games are usually hidden away in their own special stages or boss areas.
It's probably a give or take kind of thing; you can't just plop Boiling Bully Belt into Lethal Lava Land without one of them suffering in some way. They have radically different design philosophies.
But hey I'm not a game designer so I could be proven wrong by somebody out there.
Nintendo once sang a different tune and grouped SMG in with 64. And rightly so. The gameplay is identical.
The typical star of SMG has you collecting things, solving puzzles, engaging in light platforming and fighting a boss.
It's the exact mix you'll find in SM64's courses.
SMG is not a pure platformer. It doesn't require precision. It isn't difficult. It doesn't carry harsh penalties for failing a jump.
SM64 has more pure platforming in its final two stages than SMG has in its entirety.
SMG took 64 concepts, extracted them from its open worlds, and placed them in sequence, one after the other, and that made 64's gameplay palatable to people who previously disliked it.
And as for your examples, SMG incorporate cannons into its gameplay, just like SM64. In SMG, you defeat enemies to earn keys or stars, just like tangling with chain chomp. There is almost nothing in SM64 that wasn't brought over into SMG. Maybe the streamlined nature of the courses disguised the fact. Maybe eleven years later the gameplay was improved to a degree that its origins were no longer clear.
But nothing will ever change the fact that SMG plays nothing like 3D Land. Because it has a different move set with a different gameplay mix with a different level of required precision to advance throughout the level.
Koizumi is branding the game this way too, and I'll take his word on it over anyone else's.
Aldric
Member
Don't bother with 3D World fans, they'll never admit SMG was very different than 3D Land/World, despite something as obvious as Galaxy having full analog controls, no run button, a triple jump or a core move that essentially works like a weaker version of Fludd's hover ability. So much for "precision platforming".
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
I think what puts me off is that the people in this new "real world" setting are proportioned all wrong compared to Mario. And they all dress the same as if he went back in time, but the technology says it's modern. They need to be dressed more randomly and like normal humans. Even if they're all businessmen and women they're all wearing the same suit. At least give them variations in the suits.
What they should have done, if they're building this new world and lore for Mario, is made the people the same proportions to Mario and Luigi and build the world around that.
Even if it turns out somehow that Bowser created this world for Mario to run around in, the humans really give me the worst Sonic vibe. The "realistic setting" is what makes me absolutely hate modern Sonic. I enjoy Sonic more when it's the colorful cartoony world and less when it's full of normally proportioned humans inexplicably interacting with talking anthropomorphic animals and a human bad guy who looks nothing like the other humans.
What they should have done, if they're building this new world and lore for Mario, is made the people the same proportions to Mario and Luigi and build the world around that.
Even if it turns out somehow that Bowser created this world for Mario to run around in, the humans really give me the worst Sonic vibe. The "realistic setting" is what makes me absolutely hate modern Sonic. I enjoy Sonic more when it's the colorful cartoony world and less when it's full of normally proportioned humans inexplicably interacting with talking anthropomorphic animals and a human bad guy who looks nothing like the other humans.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
This hurts my brain. But I really can't wait to find out the story to this. Maybe we haven't even SEEN the hub world yet. For all we know, New Donk is just another branch like the Mexico world and the food world. I'm not gonna assume NDC is the hub. I don't actually want NDC to be the hub. As long as it's a hub though with portals like Mario 64 and Sunshine, which seems to be what they're currently implying.
What? I do all the time. Mario 3D World IS much different from Galaxy. We know it is. And you know what, I prefer 3D World. 3D World feels like what Mario would have evolved had Mario 64 not gone a different direction and Mario games just kept iterating from their 2D setting until they broke into 3D. Mario 3D World is basically the 3D version of a 2D Mario.
I love all Mario variations.
I am still hoping we don't only get Odyssey this generation, but also a 3D World 2 and another NSMB because they can all exist at the same time whether people like it or not. And I will play and enjoy all three.
I've been saying for years Galaxy is closer to 3D World than the others and I got so much crap for it. So yeah.