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[Sir Alemeth]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/opinion/super-mario-runs-not-so-super-gender-politics.html?_r=0

Last week, after a wait of almost a decade, the world’s most popular video game series, Super Mario Bros., finally came to the world’s most popular video game machine: the iPhone. Nintendo’s Super Mario Run went immediately to the top of the App Store charts, above mainstays like Facebook, Snapchat, Instagram and YouTube. According to one estimate, the game was downloaded 37 million times in its first three days.

Unfortunately, despite Nintendo’s history and reputation, Super Mario Run is not a family-friendly game — or at least not one my wife and I will be letting our 6-year-old daughter play. The game is rife with stale, retrograde gender stereotypes — elements that were perhaps expected in 1985, when the first Super Mario Bros. was released in the United States, but that today are just embarrassing.

Super Mario Run begins, as does almost every Super Mario title, with Princess Peach becoming a hostage who must be rescued by Mario. Just before her ritual kidnapping, Peach invites Mario to her castle and pledges to bake him a cake. Upon her rescue, she kisses Mario. The game also includes a second female character, Toadette, whose job is to wave a flag before and after a race, like a character from “Grease.”

By failing to update Super Mario for a contemporary audience, Nintendo is lagging far behind the Walt Disney Co., one of its closest American analogues. Disney’s film “Frozen” subverted and reinvigorated the fairy-tale princess movie; “The Force Awakens” gave us a female Jedi. Super Mario Run doesn’t even try.

Super Mario Run relegates its female characters to positions of near helplessness. Peach and Toadette become playable only after you complete certain tasks, which makes the women in the game feel like prizes. Worse, should you then use Peach to defeat her kidnapper, Bowser, you’ll discover that neither Mario nor a kiss is waiting for her as a reward.

Fucking Nintendo.

 

[JoeM86]

Ignoring all the prominence of female characters in Nintendo products. Ignoring the fact that male characters are unlocks too (with only Mario at the beginning since a Mario game).

Ignoring this

This was discussed ad nauseum in gaming and the thread closed

 

[TheRedSnifit]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1327345&highlight=gender

 

[Messofanego]

But it's just tradition! lol

Nintendo needs to update their games socially, even Pokemon has done it. The only time their female characters seem to shine are in off shoot mini game collection or sports games.

 

[Sir Alemeth]

Damn my thread searching abilities.

Please close.

 

[AxeMan]

I got nothing. Nothing.
This is nothing.

Nothing more than people looking for something.



I've got nothing

 

[jadedm17]

Not everything has to be something, sometimes a game can just be a simple premise.

Huge overreaction of PC culture.

 

[Metal B]

But it's just tradition! lol

Nintendo needs to update their games socially, even Pokemon has done it. The only time their female characters seem to shine are in off shoot mini game collection or sports games.

And 3D World, Super Mario Run or the many times the series doesn't take the premise seriously.

 

[Calm Mind]

What an embarrassing thread.

 

[TheWasTheJoke]

Its slightly trivial, but nevertheless a cogent argument. Maybe Nintendo should modernise its portrayal of women?

 

[sanstesy]

Huge overreaction of personal computer culture.

I still don't why it is called "personal computer" culture.

 

[PdotMichael]

It isn't sexist to save a woman in a videogame.

It would be sexist in form of objectification if Nintendo thinks that women are only good for being saved, which can't be supported by Nintendo's output.

 

[Jake.]

imagine writing this piece of trash with a straight face. i'd be embarrassed to be married to the author.

 

[Kayhan]

Fucking Nintendo.

Rolling my eyes.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

And 3D World, Super Mario Run or the many times the series doesn't take the premise seriously.

Just like Metroid.

 

[PsychBat!]

Pretty sure I heard that Peach and Toadette are unlockable.

And while this is a coherent argument, the article is reaching for clicks.

And the fact that this thread wasn't posted in jest is really.... bleh

 

[JordanN]

At some point, Peach has to equip her castle with anti-aircraft cannons.

Her entire kingdom is littered with coins, she can afford it.

 

[Calm Mind]

It isn't sexist to save a woman in a videogame.

It would be sexist in form of objectification if Nintendo thinks that women are only good for being saved, which can't be supported by Nintendo's output.

"AnimeGAF's largest consumer of moe"

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

imagine writing this piece of trash with a straight face. i'd be embarrassed to be married to the author.

Plenty of other articles have talked about this problem.

 

[Richie]

The only time their female characters seem to shine are in off shoot mini game collection or sports games.

Hell no, just off the top of my head, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem, Splatoon, Zelda (Hyrule Warriors has more gals than guys playable, even) the list goes on and on...

Plenty of other articles have talked about this problem.

And I sure hope they had a better approach than this one.

 

[Jake.]

Plenty of other articles have talked about this problem.

...and?

 

[Immaculate]

you can play as her though

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

...and?

It's worth talking about it is all I'm saying, which we did in the OG thread.

 

[Zereta]

Okay.

I get the want for more representation, greater female representation.

But going after Mario... in a Nintendo mobile game...

grasping for those straws for real here.

 

[Jake.]

It's worth talking about it is all I'm saying, which we did in the OG thread.

i don't think so - there's much more important issues to discuss than supposed "sexism" in a mario game. i know it's an op-ed piece, but it's still the NYT.

 

[chaobreaker]

I'm laughing at how OT is so blunt with this thread's title versus the gaming thread.

 

[Real Hero]

So is James Bond, something being sexist racist or whatever doesn't mean it should be avoided but engaged with and deconstructed. Also its fucking Mario shut the fuck up

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

i don't think so - there's much more important issues to discuss than supposed "sexism" in a mario game. i know it's an op-ed piece, but it's still the NYT.

Oh, your saying this type of news should be covered by game journos.

 

[Jake.]

Oh, your saying this type of news should be covered by game journos.

no. it's not even news.

 

[Angelina]

Why are they moaning bout peaches position ? Why should she suddenly be a lead in a mario game ? Is this what things are coming too now ?

Mario has never been about peach being lead etc. I guess people want zelda to be a lead instead of link oh wait thats being forced too

 

[Laughing Banana]

The article has a point. A good point even.

But then the author must ruin its own credibility by comparing Toadette to a sexy racing girl. I mean REALLY now.

 

[Zombine]

All I know is that Toad blows Mario away in rally. Thanks for all the easy toads.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

no. it's not even news.

Lots of news sites run opinion articles.

 

[CaviarMeths]

All the dumb op-eds that came out when Nintendo was struggling over the last few years made me forget about the really dumb op-eds that come out when they're doing well.

 

[Lexxism]

Super Mario Run relegates its female characters to positions of near helplessness. Peach and Toadette become playable only after you complete certain tasks, which makes the women in the game feel like prizes

 

[Aaron Strife]

The article has a point. A good point even.

But then the author must ruin its own credibility by comparing Toadette to a sexy racing girl. I mean REALLY now.

Yeah I don't know if I find too much wrong with Toadette's portrayal.

Mario Run reverting to the "Peach is kidnapped... again" storyline for such a big milestone in the series (being the first mobile game, reaching a much larger potential audience than even the ridiculously successful NES or Wii entries) is kind of annoying in 2016. I was hoping with 3D World including Peach

Spoiler

and Rosalina

and not relegating her to the sidelines like usual was the beginning of a new trend.

I mean yeah, you unlock her, but still.

 

[Pizoxuat]

Little girls notice that in mobile games, the female characters are almost always unlocks or behind paywalls. Male is still strongly default for your introduction to games in this space, and Mario Run is no exception. My daughter almost immediately declared Mario Run a bad game and put it down. She might have stuck with it longer with a choice of character from the beginning.

 

[Super_Cobra]

Lmao wow. People are just digging for shit.

 

[excelsiorlef]

i don't think so - there's much more important issues to discuss than supposed "sexism" in a mario game. i know it's an op-ed piece, but it's still the NYT.

There's always something more important.. might as well talk about nothing then.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Jesus.

 

[Kinyou]

Ignoring this

Oh snap. I guess nintendo just one upped Frozen

 

[DeSo]

Mario games have been using the same tropes for years, why now?

 

[Dalibor68]

*edit* On second thought, I don't care enough about Nintendo to potentially get into an argument

This is legitimate criticism.

It is a Mario game. Thus Mario is the default character (from what I read in thread). You can criticize that from a gameplay/content perspective but calling that sexism is ridiculous.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Little girls notice that in mobile games, the female characters are almost always unlocks or behind paywalls. Male is still strongly default for your introduction to games in this space, and Mario Run is no exception. My daughter almost immediately declared Mario Run a bad game and put it down. She might have stuck with it longer with a choice of character from the beginning.

This is legitimate criticism.

 

[MrBadger]

The damsel thing is legitimate and has been discussed with Mario for a while now, but the other two points seem like reaches. The game regulates every character except Mario to an unlock, and the flag thing feels silly.

I know you can ask the question "why isn't Peach the character you start with?" but I don't think that a cash-in mobile title is the right time to suddenly make another character besides Mario the star. The whole point is to get outsiders into the Mario brand.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The damsel thing is legitimate and has been discussed with Mario for a while now, but the other two points seem like reaches. The game regulates every character except Mario to an unlock, and the flag thing feels silly.

I know you can ask the question "why isn't Peach the character you start with?" but I don't think that a cash-in mobile title is the right time to suddenly make another character besides Mario the star. The whole point is to get outsiders into the Mario brand.

I mean Mario could be the star and still have Peach available from the get go as well

 

[Figboy79]

Why not just have Mario and Peach available from the start, and have all of the other characters behind a paywall?

And are you really going to play the "Princess Peach has been captured by Bowser" trope straight in this day and age? At least have some fun with it.

But this article is criticizing Nintendo. I don't expect that to go over well. I love me some Ninty too, but it's a fair criticism that their flagship title has barely evolved with the times. Mario is their Mickey Mouse, Peach their Minnie. They should have more respect for the character.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

If your thread is based on an article that is more than 3 hours old, your thread is probably late folks.

 

[Ushojax]

There is no doubt that NCL, like all Japanese companies, are still quite ignorant of gender equality issues. After all, Nintendo made one of the most sexist games of all time with Metroid Other M.

 

[RenditMan]

Kids don't give a shit about this stuff unless they are told to give a shit about it.

Some parents can't just let their kids be kids I guess.

Let their imagination flow, the serious stuff that their minds will have to process is for another day which unfortunately is not that far away.