Support NeoGAF

[JediLink]

"Melee was a good game because, even taking away stuff like wavedashing, the game itself it was actually smartly designed. In Brawl, Sakurai clearly just didn't care." is exactly the sort of statement Sakurai would retort with "Have you ever made a game?" It's an elitist attitude compared to the more level-headed concerns being posted here and why the competitive Smash community constantly has an uphill battle in regards to reaching proper mainstream recognition.

Okay, I agree that is kind of harsh, but when I say that Sakurai doesn't care, I'm talking about stuff like (for example) Meta Knight. It indicates that balancing the game properly was something he didn't consider important, or in other words, he didn't care.

I really hope that Smash 4 is good, y'all. I really do. I'd hate to see good gestures like For Glory go to waste.

 

[SuperSah]

I'm expecting nothing.

 

[SenorArdilla]

DLC?

 

[Dimitri LH]

from the same smash board thread:

I have some info on Sonic, if you're interested.
- Almost the same moveset. He has some changes that weren't in his reveal trailer, however.

- Side B is less floaty. It kind of just hops and goes down really quickly.

- Down B is the same, though there's this purple aura and smoke when it's fully charged.

- Dash attack. IDK if this happened in Brawl, but it traps people on contact, and ends with two kick attacks, with decent knockback.

- Down smash is NO LONGER THAT SPIN THING. Now, it's a split kick, very similar to Fox's.

- Taunts are the same, but he no longer says "YOU'RE TOO SLOW". :'[

That dash attack....trapping people? Sounds nice. Good to see some good Sonic changes.

 

[BlackJace]

Let's not enter fantasy mode.

There's a better chance of me winning the lottery, I know.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Okay, I agree that is kind of harsh, but when I say that Sakurai doesn't care, I'm talking about stuff like (for example) Meta Knight. It indicates that balancing the game properly was something he didn't consider important, or in other words, he didn't care.

How so? Sakurai balanced Melee alone, but he had other people helping with Brawl's balancing.

He obviously cared, but balancing a 39 character roster is a lot harder than balancing 26 characters. Meta Knight is an anomaly.

Taunts are the same, but he no longer says "YOU'RE TOO SLOW". :'[

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

Double post, ignore

 

[Cse]

What could "metagame" mean in this context?

I'm really excited to find out what it is.

This is what has me intrigued. Nintendo sponsored tournaments would be incredible, but it wouldn't "change the metagame".

 

[ffdgh]

How so? Sakurai balanced Melee alone, but he had other people helping with Brawl's balancing.

He obviously cared, but balancing a 39 character roster is a lot harder than balancing 26 characters. Meta Knight is an anomaly.

True but there's something wrong when a good majority of the melee vets are worst than the newcomers...going by tier lists lol.

 

[KittenMaster]

The metagame changing thing is unlikely to be a character, because it would then have to be a character that ends up being half the matchups in online/tournies. Unlikely to be a stage.

There is no metagame, so it would have to be something that affects all characters in some way, and changes how the game plays from the previous iteration.

There's also the consideration that Zero could just be pulling a Justin Wong and making assumptions way too early.

---

As for Sakurai on balance, he didn't seem satisfied with the people he had from what it sounded like. He said that their "biases" in their playstyle ended up a detriment. That, and Sakurai balancing Melee on his own ended up more balanced than one balanced by his group, so yeah, he did care about balancing to some extent. This doesn't explain several other Brawl problems which were universal for many characters.

Now he has a team 3x as large as the one from Brawl doing balance so that a wider range of playstyles can be considered.

 

[dmg04]

Played a bit on the showfloor.

3ds was interesting. I haven't touched a 3DS, so that's my own deal. Gotta adjust to the handheld.

As for the gamecube controller, felt good as always. I can't put my finger on this game, though. Feels like Melee. Feels like Brawl. Feels like Project M.


....Feels like a Super Smash game that everyone will enjoy.

 

[Jagsrock]

I can't wait to try out pac-man. Im seriously thinking about maining him.

 

[Feltrol]

Sorry if old but apparently there's going to be a "hype announcement" "very very soon" according to the invitational winner. Seems like it could be the daily pic by the way he's putting it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/280mk9/hey_im_zero_e3_smash_bros_invitational_champion/.

He wants Krystal as a newcomer. I like him already.

Glad I'm not the only want that wants Krystal as a newcomer!

#TeamKrystal

 

[Icelandic_Jazz]

I was bored so I put the Smash Bros roster (assuming no cuts + Mewtwo returns) in chronological order as best as I could. Some systems overlap a bit (like Kirby debuted on GB but was also on NES). It might not be totally accurate but hey.


Pre-NES
Mr. Game & Watch
Pac-Man
Donkey Kong
Mario
Luigi
Little Mac

NES
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Bowser
Peach
Link
Zelda
Samus
Pit
Palutena
Snake (MSX2)
Mega Man
Marth

SNES/GB
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Sonic (Mega Drive)
Kirby
King Dedede
Wario
Fox
Falco
Meta Knight (NES)
Diddy Kong
Ness
Charizard
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

N64
Wolf
Ganondorf
Sheik
Villager

GCN/GBA
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Lucas

Wii/DS
Miis
Lucario
Rosalina
Wii Fit Trainer
Chorus Men
Shulk

3DS
Chrom
Greninja

The 'leaked' characters are italicized. SSB4 has some really nice retro representation.

 

[Golnei]

I guess that's All-Star mode laid out, then. Though I do hope they have a variety of templates to change it up a little - the order you listed, then date of franchise debut, then date of induction into Smash, etc.

 

[Poltergust]

This was my E3 loot....

Awesome! If you're willing to give/sell any of these, I'll be glad to take a large.

 

[Tomohawk]

Anyone not like the new victory screens. There's no one looking bummed its just them clapping.

 

[SkullHydra]

Anyone not like the new victory screens. There's no one looking bummed its just them clapping.

I love them, with the exception of seeing Link's ugly mug when he's clapping.

 

[AdanVC]

Pic of the day. This is quite a line-up of characters for the gaming world. I mean, it's amazing enough that Mario can fight Pikachu. I hope you enjoy this truly unique celebration!!

Probably my favorite pic of the day in months. Just look at thiiiis. This four guys officially together. :')

 

[justchris]

Okay, I agree that is kind of harsh, but when I say that Sakurai doesn't care, I'm talking about stuff like (for example) Meta Knight. It indicates that balancing the game properly was something he didn't consider important, or in other words, he didn't care.

Or it indicates he was trying to balance a game for multiple playstyles with a substandard team who had never worked on any kind of fighting game before while under massive time pressure coupled with additions made midday through development?

 

[Toxi]

Little Mac's victory screen is amazing.

Anyone read this guys impressions? He makes me excited.

http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-analysis-from-a-guy-who-loves-camping.358097/

This is really damn good info. Love the comments on DK, who is one of the characters I wanted to try out but couldn't on Wednesday.

 

[GamerSoul]

This was my E3 loot....

jeebus you did good lol.

Pic of the day. This is quite a line-up of characters for the gaming world. I mean, it's amazing enough that Mario can fight Pikachu. I hope you enjoy this truly unique celebration!!

pretty surreal. Yet I still want more.

 

[Mariolee]

"Have you ever wanted to know who would win in a fight between Rosalina and Pac Man?"

"Well, I mean not really but -"

"WELL NOW YOU CAN."

 

[SatoAilDarko]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=110045869&postcount=10190

gotta play ketchup

All of your gifs are great but this one was something special. I could really feel the dull surprise of Ridley as he sees these announcements, closes his eyes, sighs and just dissolves into himself. As a Ridley fan I (sadly) can relate.

 

[NotLiquid]

So have people started theorizing whether there will be a Ms. Pac-Man alt yet

 

[Toxi]

So have people started theorizing whether there will be a Ms. Pac-Man alt yet

I assume there would be. Namco now owns Ms. Pac-Man.

 

[SkullHydra]

"Have you ever wanted to know who would win in a fight between Rosalina and Pac Man?"

"Of course I do!"

"WELL NOW YOU CAN."

Sakurai, just helping people sleep at night.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

So have people started theorizing whether there will be a Ms. Pac-Man alt yet

Why theorize? Just hope or don't hope. There is no evidence for either side.

 

[Poltergust]

Anyone not like the new victory screens. There's no one looking bummed its just them clapping.

Are you kidding? Mega Man's clapping animation is hilarious.

 

[Jintor]

Anyone not like the new victory screens. There's no one looking bummed its just them clapping.

They're all sarcastic clapping

 

[Boss Doggie]

Wait what happened to Ridley

did he get absorbed into another dimension?

 

[Golnei]

Incidentally, I'm #TeamMsPacMan.

 

[Moonlight]

Just skimmed through Smashboards. Place almost gave me a headache. I can understand being vocal about the game, but jesus the overall quality of discussion is abysmal. Conspiracy theories about Sakurai and Nintendo abound.

 

[Joey Ravn]

My crazy theory from the Pac-Man trailer.

1980: Pac-Man, Mr. Game and Watch.
1981: Mario and DK? Pretty sure that they are Mario and DK.

But what if the teaser is actually for 1982? Do you see what that means?

Spoiler

Dig Dug confirmed.

Spoiler

Q*Bert confirmed.

Spoiler

E.T. confirmed.

Spoiler

Custer confirmed.

Spoiler

Video game market crash Final Smash confirmed.

Just connect the points. It's all right there.

 

[Crocodile]

I assume there would be. Namco now owns Ms. Pac-Man.

They didn't before? Wha? Not super familiar with Pac-Man history but how did they not own an official spin-off of their own character?

 

[JediLink]

How so? Sakurai balanced Melee alone, but he had other people helping with Brawl's balancing.

He obviously cared, but balancing a 39 character roster is a lot harder than balancing 26 characters. Meta Knight is an anomaly.

Or it indicates he was trying to balance a game for multiple playstyles with a substandard team who had never worked on any kind of fighting game before while under massive time pressure coupled with additions made midway through development?

I don't expect balance to be perfect, well, ever. But Meta Knight is some Capcom-level shit. Dude just has no weaknesses. It's like Ono with his "Having an underdog makes things more interesting" that spawned AE Yun, except it wasn't actually intentional, as far as I can tell anyway. There is no way that Sakurai looked at Meta Knight, asked himself "Is this character on the same level as [any other character in the game]?" and then said yes. It's not even just Meta Knight though; that was just one example. Any small amount of proper playtesting absolutely should've noticed Snake's hitboxes, jab locking, planking, chaingrabs, Homing Attack stalling, etc. I can forgive just one thing slipping through, but all of that? Sorry for expecting quality in a series with a name as big as Smash Bros.

Spoiler

I am kind of giving Sakurai the benefit of the doubt here. If it wasn't because he didn't care, the only thing left is that he was just too naive to notice. I don't really want to accuse him of that though.

 

[munchie64]

They didn't before? Wha? Not super familiar with Pac-Man history but how did they not own an official spin-off of their own character?

It wasn't official.

 

[SliceSabre]

Just skimmed through Smashboards. Place almost gave me a headache. I can understand being vocal about the game, but jesus the overall quality of discussion is abysmal. Conspiracy theories about Sakurai and Nintendo abound.

Quite the portion of them seem to think Sakurai is the boogyman out to get them and are already talking about a Project M for the game before it is even released. Its insane. Do they not know what a demo is?

 

[JediLink]

Quite the portion of them seem to think Sakurai is the boogyman out to get them and are already talking about a Project M for the game before it is even released. Its insane. Do they not know what a demo is?

Well, yeah. We all played the Brawl demo. Well, I didn't because I live in Australia, but a lot of people did anyway.

 

[Hours Left]

I was bored so I put the Smash Bros roster (assuming no cuts + Mewtwo returns) in chronological order as best as I could. Some systems overlap a bit (like Kirby debuted on GB but was also on NES). It might not be totally accurate but hey.


Pre-NES
Mr. Game & Watch
Pac-Man
Donkey Kong
Mario
Luigi
Little Mac

NES
Ice Climbers
R.O.B.
Bowser
Peach
Link
Zelda
Samus
Pit
Palutena
Snake (MSX2)
Mega Man
Marth

SNES/GB
Yoshi
Captain Falcon
Sonic (Mega Drive)
Kirby
King Dedede
Wario
Fox
Falco
Meta Knight (NES)
Diddy Kong
Ness
Charizard
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

N64
Wolf
Ganondorf
Sheik
Villager

GCN/GBA
Olimar
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus
Ike
Lucas

Wii/DS
Miis
Lucario
Rosalina
Wii Fit Trainer
Chorus Men
Shulk

3DS
Chrom
Greninja

The 'leaked' characters are italicized. SSB4 has some really nice retro representation.

Little Mac is debatable since the character in the Arcade versions of Punch-Out!! is probably not intended to be him. (Despite the wire frame alt in this.)

The main character of the Arcade Punch-Out!! games is an older, green haired dude.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Okay, I agree that is kind of harsh, but when I say that Sakurai doesn't care, I'm talking about stuff like (for example) Meta Knight. It indicates that balancing the game properly was something he didn't consider important, or in other words, he didn't care.

I really hope that Smash 4 is good, y'all. I really do. I'd hate to see good gestures like For Glory go to waste.

Sorry if I came across a bit dickheadish earlier, I just feel your original post read less "Sakurai doesn't care about the competitive side of Smash" (which I *sort of* agree with) and more "Sakurai half-asses Smash", which are distinctly different points with different emotional tones.

Absolutely understand how for a competitive player Brawl was a huge disappointment, especially since in the past year or so Project M has hammered home just how huge the gap between Melee and Brawl could get. Also agree aspects such as For Glory mode and some of the movement lag being pointed out need work to properly cater to the competitive side of Smash, even if a literal port of Brawl plus a few new characters would still personally have me investing a few hundred hours with my friends.

Also even a Melee hater/Brawl lover will agree 100% Metaknight was absolute bullshit. He needs to be nerfed just as badly as Ganondorf needs a sword. If you check out the Roundtable interviews though it seems like Sakurai's aware some of Brawl's balancing was out of whack (SSB64 and Melee are the only games he balanced by himself apparently), but I guess it'll depend how that'll pan out in SSB4. Thankfully I nor any of my friends found him remotely fun to play as!

 

[M4kk0]

This was my E3 loot....

Wow!!! Are you selling any of these?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I think it's more to do with Brawl being in a console that can't be patched.

I wonder why no one asked if 4 could be patched or not.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Reading smashboards is so fun,
here's my favorite comment so far:

-"Aren't you thankful?"
No im not. I think sakurai has dropped the ball once again. I dont care if he will lose his arm because of this, because in my eyes, he is being as selfish and as stubborn as he can be. With us, with their fanbase. Thats unforgivable.

 

[Jintor]

Reading smashboards is so fun,
here's my favorite comment so far:

holy shit :lol :lol :lol

what a jackass

 

[Metal B]

Sorry if old but apparently there's going to be a "hype announcement" "very very soon" according to the invitational winner. Seems like it could be the daily pic by the way he's putting it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/280mk9/hey_im_zero_e3_smash_bros_invitational_champion/

EDIT: nope not the daily pic.

Sadly there was an edit and he can't announce it right know. Looks like Nintendo still wanna keep it a secret right know.

EDIT: Guys, really sad to say this but the announcement I planned to reveal during this AMA can't be done now. HOWEVER, this is incredibly exciting and awesome for me and the scene. I hope that this goes well and that I can announce it later on.

 

[mclem]

Hyperactivity [WIN >>] Troubled Bat : 2 new chars + 1 veteran, 1 3rd party char (may be one of 2+1), sword user || ? [#6774/#7401]

Didn't Hyperactivity win this one? The only possible failing I could see is the veteran, but I'm taking the Game & Watch tease as sufficient for that.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

Looking at Palutena's gameplay again, a few things I've noticed:

1. Her dodge/roll seems to be a short distance teleport.

2. forward attacks:

1. wing slap

2. staff spin

3. blasts/shocks from staff. (looks to have a more intense blast as finisher so I assume it's her neutral)

4.dash is a shield bash.

3. Upward attacks

1. wing spread (this looks more like a smash due to the slow start up, looks like a charge)

2. that big blue lightbeam. (this looks more like a tilt as it activates instantly)

4. throws

1. up throw seems to be a toss+kick

5. downward attacks

1. wings spread downwards as smash.

aerial attacks

1. Neutral looks like a staff spin

---

It looks like all her smash attacks have the wings/holy symbol appear, meaning that upward beam she used has to be her tilt.

we're missing almost all her aerials except for the neutral one & her down tilt. Not sure if I forgot about anything else.

 

[Toxi]

why can't you missile cancel with samus

like i appreciate that she's faster, but it's kinda rdiculous that they made the missiles worse

 

[BGBW]

DK's seemed to have gotten better now that you can actually time it correctly so maybe.

Did people really have difficulty with the rhythm? Is this why many have a problem with it? I like the new markers referencing Donkey Konga, but I didn't need them after working out the beat in Brawl. I mean DK's big problem was he stayed in one place while the stage scrolled so he could die.