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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 8: Put mii in, coach

There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

mjsmha5um2.gif


As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...

I mean, it'll help you recover.

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I can't stand edge hogging. I think the current system is great. If some balance things are fixed up then players won't be living as long. And the auto sweet spotting should be fixed up for sure.

I dunno, I guess I always though if you made it back to the stage you shouldn't fall just because somebody hopped on the ledge. I hate to use the word cheap but it's what comes to mind. I know it's a legitimate tactic that many use(d) but I'm not sad to see it go.

I dunno, I'd wait till the jury's out. I gave it another listen and it sounded close enough to me, and of course Pit and Viridi sounded the same.

I'll hold out hope. The Uprising voice cast was sooooo amazing, and I need a Thanatos AT and a Hades boss and so many more characters uuuugh
 

Tan

Member
iirc, the amount of time you spend in the air before grabbing the ledge is also a factor. I'm trying to recall that cryptic update lol.

That's for determining how long you can sit on the ledge before being hit-able. You can have the ledge stolen in this way as soon as you grab it ... iirc.

edit: i suppose I should be quoting the person you quoted but now i'm too lazy to fix this!
 
As much as I enjoy edgehogging, making the edge trumpable should theoretically switch the edge game into aerial attacks and meteor smashes and the like, and when that's combined with it being relatively easy to grab the ledge I think it will make for some pretty exciting edge game down the line!

Theoretically, anyway. Hopefully it doesn't just make edge game nonexistent in practice.
 

Neiteio

Member
Can someone give me a full overview of the Gematsu poo.
Worth noting: In Leak #2, the generic mention of "Pokémon from X and Y" was probably due to the fact Greninja was selected by Sakurai before he even had a name, back when all Sakurai had to go off were the earliest reference drawings.* So the leaker's source probably found out about him early on, after he had been finalized but before he had a name, and thus only knew him as "Pokémon from X and Y."

* We learned about Greninja's origins at the developer roundtable

Also, Anthony, your impressions are awesome and really well-done. I'm thrilled to hear Greninja is a blast to play. :)
 

Spinluck

Member
There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

mjsmha5um2.gif


As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...

Yeah, it seems that the snap on is just like Brawl's, didn't realize that till this week. Thought it as more generous than Melee but behind Brawl. It seems to be right up there with Brawl.

For some reason, edge hogging being changed is not that big of a bummer for me. I didn't really rely on edge hogging for kills anyway (I also do not think it'll affect life span that much, and skilled players will still find ways to end you).

Guess it is time for some people to get a little more creative. I welcome the change, loving that each of these iterations play so differently. :-3

Can someone give me a full overview of the Gematsu poo.

Sakurai flipped a coin to decide who to keep between Snake and Sonic. Sonic won.
 

Cixah

Neo Member
Is there still a bit of lag before you can hop up to the ledge? I feel like you could Short Hop Fast Fall the ledge right as they land and force them down like a toadstool. That might be a decent thing to attempt.
 

Spinluck

Member
So, over or under 14 newcomers?

I'm digging that flow of battle. Movement in general is faster than Brawl, but the lag for moves make it seem like whiff punishing will play a bigger role.

Especially if you miss aerials that have shoddy landing lag.

I can't imagine the amount of lag that will ensue after missing a Capt Falcon fair. :(
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
So, over or under 14 newcomers?

It would be very safe if we would go with 12 newcomers only, so that way people wouldn't be disappointed if we only get those 12.


I thought that Dixie had a decent chance to be playable character after seeing Midna in action. They managed to make it work for Midna to grab characters with her hairs, so I could see Dixie use her hairs to grab characters as well.
 

k_Reign

Member
Megamans Bair looks more reliable then what people lead on.......same goes for Cutman power. Love Megamans Dash attack.

It definitely seems like people are gonna have to really give this game a chance instead of just writing it off based on lame, short impressions.
 

Crocodile

Member
There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

mjsmha5um2.gif


As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...

On the Treehouse stream, they said this change was done specifically with the competitive metagame in mind. It strikes as something that is "different" instead of "bad" and deserves to be played around with.
 
I'm wondering now if the change in edge mechanics and what that means for certain recoveries is why there are now so many stages with walk offs; ie, to make stages where characters whose recoveries would put them at a disadvantage in the new system aren't as bad off.
 
So did anyone keep track of all the palette swaps for the characters in the demo anywhere?

Specifically, how many male swaps does WFT have?
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
So did anyone keep track of all the palette swaps for the characters in the demo anywhere?

Specifically, how many male swaps does WFT have?

Well, demo only have 4 colors so I would like to think that I saw Wii Fit Trainer Male had Blue and Green. I'm still hoping that Wii Fit Trainer would get Orange alt for both gender.
 
That deeeefinitley didn't sound like Ali to me. I just rewatched it and it was just as jarring as when I saw it the first time.

She isn't Hillis in Smash 4? She sounded like Hillis to me, in the trailer at least.

It didn't sound like Ali to me either

Trust me guys, my ears don't lie :(

You guys are nuts and freaking out over nothing. It's her. I noticed for most of the trailer she sounded a touch lighter and tad more "cutesy" much like she did in the Revolting Dinner short (animated by Shaft as well funny enough). Her line at the end of the trailer regarding strong foes sounds a lot more in line with how she sounds in the game.
 

GamerSoul

Member
I havent taken the time to watch some Samus matches but from what I've seen she looks amazing.
GIF OF THE DAY

REST IN PEACE GRAB COMBOS EDITION

ripgrabs1tund.gif


marth ; _ ;

Can't be that bad. *notices the player percentages* damn. lol

I'm wondering now if the change in edge mechanics and what that means for certain recoveries is why there are now so many stages with walk offs; ie, to make stages where characters whose recoveries would put them at a disadvantage in the new system aren't as bad off.

Maybe. I know Mac will sure have an advantage on walk off stages. From some of the E3Treehouse matches I've seen, it's a real struggle from to get back.
 

Rulp

Member
Nothing really important was talked about in the stream but here's what was basically said anyway for anyone that wanted to hear his thoughts:

This is encouraging. Nintendo's acknowledgment of the competitive smash community is crucial moving forward.
 
You guys are nuts and freaking out over nothing. It's her. I noticed for most of the trailer she sounded a touch lighter and tad more "cutesy" much like she did in the Revolting Dinner short (animated by Shaft as well funny enough). Her line at the end of the trailer regarding strong foes sounds a lot more in line with how she sounds in the game.

I hope you're right. She just sounded... off. But I do remember her last line sounding much more like normal.

And maybe it was just cause all he said was "uh-huh," but Pittoo sounded odd. Which is weird cause why would you hire a whole other voice actor. But I'm sure that was my ears playing tricks on me.
 
There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

mjsmha5um2.gif


As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...
On the other hand, there's not as much invincibility while hopping on and off of ledges. That'll decrease the amount of time spent on or near ledges.
 
I was thinking about that whole character customization shebang, and how Palutena and Mii Fighters are so heavily (if not inextricably) linked to its existence. Basically, those two (four?) exist to show off added diversity in customizable movesets (in that, while most characters only have variations of their stock special moves - you can't de-equip Mario's FLUDD, for instance - those two have three completely unique special moves available for every single direction). Obviously they'll have some interesting capabilities beyond that, but, in a somewhat cynical take on things, that is their primary gimmick here.

But the customization options don't stop at swapping out special moves; I distinctly recall Sakurai was talking about the ability to buff stats, at the expense of nerfing others simultaneously. Looking over the character customization page (seriously, these read kinda like lengthier Dojo articles, it's great), it appears you get three slots to put various items that buff either attack, defense and speed, while nerfing another of those three. You can use this to your advantage, choosing to only use items that buff a given stat, for instance.

Now, going back to how people were speculating Shulk might work - the whole gimmick of Xenoblade is using each character's Arts to inflict various statuses on enemies, like Shulk using Stream Edge to inflict Break, then having Reyn use Wild Down to Topple it (which can only be done on enemies suffering Break or Daze, or already Toppled), then have Sharla quickly hit them with Head Shaker to inflict Daze... things like that. In addition, you could also give yourself various buffs with the various Arts - the Monado can boost your attack (against Mechon, anyway), speed or defense (with Monado Enchant, Monado Speed and Monado Shield, respectively); for a less Monado-centric example, each of Melia's Summon <element> Arts grants her a small stat boost, like a weak HP regeneration for Summon Aqua, or a boost in Agility for Summon Wind.

So what I'm thinking is, maybe Shulk is supposed to be an example of this stat-boosting, outside of the modes where stat-boosting via items is allowed? Basically, he'll be using his Monado Arts to boost one of the three stats for himself (or potentially lower it for others - doubt that one will happen, but you never know), to sort of exemplify the perks of what boosting that particular stat could do for the other characters. Obviously, the boosts would be large enough to be noticeable. I'm not sure if each buff would have an accompanying nerf, given it's inconsistent between items which stat nerf gets paired with which stat buff, or the degrees to which the two are linked, but it'd make sense, too (might as well exemplify the downsides if you're gonna exemplify the upsides). Assuming this is all true (we don't know for 100% Shulk's even in the game, although it's looking likely - and even if he is in, we don't know he'll be centered around stat buffs/nerfs), that's actually a pretty clever way of letting players experiment with it without necessarily having items on hand.
 

Anteo

Member
There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

mjsmha5um2.gif


As if we didn't live long enough in Brawl...

So you are saying that in this game you need to reverse edge-hog for edgeguards? nice, the edgethrump + the grab the ledge in the middle of your upb means that is super safe to edgethrump (because you wont get hit by any hitbox) and get the oponent in a position for a back air
 

Mark1

Member
Can someone explain to me why Pac Man has Namco summons? He's one of the most exciting characters to have entered the fight but I'm wondering what the motive was behind this move choice, same for the Mappy platform recovery. Think the Namco summons will be a customisable move to replace the fruit special.
 

Jintor

Member
Can someone explain to me why Pac Man has Namco summons? He's one of the most exciting characters to have entered the fight but I'm wondering what the motive was behind this move choice, same for the Mappy platform recovery. Think the Namco summons will be a customisable move to replace the fruit special.

I would guess because otherwise his moveset is kind of anemic
 

Cixah

Neo Member
If throws are basically going to be 1 hit wonders, is it out of the realm of possibility that they deal 10-15% for each throw? Since it seems that they won't likely all have kill potential, but you can't capitalize off of them for successive hit strings. With the change to these mechanics does this but the thought of deconfirm further in our mind for ice Climbers?

IC grab game is a key point to the character. With the way new grabs work, IC's would need a complete rework to make them "competitive" even in non-competitive environments.
 
Can someone explain to me why Pac Man has Namco summons? He's one of the most exciting characters to have entered the fight but I'm wondering what the motive was behind this move choice, same for the Mappy platform recovery. Think the Namco summons will be a customisable move to replace the fruit special.
Perhaps PacMan is more of a Namco rep than just a rep for his games? Makes filling out his moveset easier as well.
 

Moonlight

Banned
I hope you're right. She just sounded... off. But I do remember her last line sounding much more like normal.

And maybe it was just cause all he said was "uh-huh," but Pittoo sounded odd. Which is weird cause why would you hire a whole other voice actor. But I'm sure that was my ears playing tricks on me.
I think Antony Del Rio already confirmed that he was voicing Pit in Smash 4. I wouldn't stress much about it in any case. The voice performances are so integral to the soul of Kid Icarus that I doubt they'd try finding different VAs unless they absolutely had to.
 
I was thinking about that whole character customization shebang, and how Palutena and Mii Fighters are so heavily (if not inextricably) linked to its existence. Basically, those two (four?) exist to show off added diversity in customizable movesets (in that, while most characters only have variations of their stock special moves - you can't de-equip Mario's FLUDD, for instance - those two have three completely unique special moves available for every single direction). Obviously they'll have some interesting capabilities beyond that, but, in a somewhat cynical take on things, that is their primary gimmick here.

But the customization options don't stop at swapping out special moves; I distinctly recall Sakurai was talking about the ability to buff stats, at the expense of nerfing others simultaneously. Looking over the character customization page (seriously, these read kinda like lengthier Dojo articles, it's great), it appears you get three slots to put various items that buff either attack, defense and speed, while nerfing another of those three. You can use this to your advantage, choosing to only use items that buff a given stat, for instance.

Now, going back to how people were speculating Shulk might work - the whole gimmick of Xenoblade is using each character's Arts to inflict various statuses on enemies, like Shulk using Stream Edge to inflict Break, then having Reyn use Wild Down to Topple it (which can only be done on enemies suffering Break or Daze, or already Toppled), then have Sharla quickly hit them with Head Shaker to inflict Daze... things like that. In addition, you could also give yourself various buffs with the various Arts - the Monado can boost your attack (against Mechon, anyway), speed or defense (with Monado Enchant, Monado Speed and Monado Shield, respectively); for a less Monado-centric example, each of Melia's Summon <element> Arts grants her a small stat boost, like a weak HP regeneration for Summon Aqua, or a boost in Agility for Summon Wind.

So what I'm thinking is, maybe Shulk is supposed to be an example of this stat-boosting, outside of the modes where stat-boosting via items is allowed? Basically, he'll be using his Monado Arts to boost one of the three stats for himself (or potentially lower it for others - doubt that one will happen, but you never know), to sort of exemplify the perks of what boosting that particular stat could do for the other characters. Obviously, the boosts would be large enough to be noticeable. I'm not sure if each buff would have an accompanying nerf, given it's inconsistent between items which stat nerf gets paired with which stat buff, or the degrees to which the two are linked, but it'd make sense, too (might as well exemplify the downsides if you're gonna exemplify the upsides). Assuming this is all true (we don't know for 100% Shulk's even in the game, although it's looking likely - and even if he is in, we don't know he'll be centered around stat buffs/nerfs), that's actually a pretty clever way of letting players experiment with it without necessarily having items on hand.

Yeah, when you think of it that way, Shulk's inclusion makes a LOT more sense. I wonder if, true to Xenoblade, Shulk will be unique and his appearance changes based on what you equip.
 
Not sure if old news but I randomly saw Walmart.com has Smash Bros Wii U and appears to show the game cover plus a release date of 09/01/14. Someone else can make a thread if it makes any sense to do so. Sept 1st is a Monday though so not sure if it makes sense anyway for a Nintendo game.
 

HawthorneKitty

Sgt. 2nd Class in the Creep Battalion, Waifu Wars
I mean, it'll help you recover.

I know it's not a popular opinion, but I can't stand edge hogging. I think the current system is great. If some balance things are fixed up then players won't be living as long. And the auto sweet spotting should be fixed up for sure.

I dunno, I guess I always though if you made it back to the stage you shouldn't fall just because somebody hopped on the ledge. I hate to use the word cheap but it's what comes to mind. I know it's a legitimate tactic that many use(d) but I'm not sad to see it go.
I'm not a huge fan of edgehogging either because it is so much hype-er to see someone jump off to smack the opponent when they try to recover.
 

Cse

Banned
After watching the Clash Tournaments videos multiple times, I'll reiterate the primary problem I experienced during my playtime a few days ago - the landing lag is really, really bad.

They even complained about it during one of the matches (Greninja vs Rosalina). Lowering the lag will give players so much more control over their characters and will be more fun for everyone. I don't know anyone, casual or competitive, that wouldn't want more control of their character.

I truly hope it is significantly reduced before the final release.
 

justchris

Member
Hey you guys didn't tell me they fixed DK's Konga Beat final smash

It now does what it should have always done aka hit any foe in the circle, in brawl it shot out two random shock waves that you couldn't control and often would just fly away from any of the other characters. Has anyone posted video of someone getting all greats because it seems to increase the range if you do more greats in a row.

It always did this, but only if you got the rhythm perfect a couple times in a row. If you miss, it doesn't damage people in the circle. I think they may have expanded the size of the circle, but I can't tell for sure.

Then I went into a match. Time to test some stuff for real.... right? Nah. It was a sudden death match, where it was me vs 3 CPUs, all at 300% from the start. On Kid Icarus stage. 2 minute time match, I believe?

Maybe I'm just a skilled player, but I didn't understand the need for all of the stat upgrades I just collected during the 5 minute Smash Run. It was like facing the fighting polygon team. Dash attack. Dash attack. Dash attack... I mixed it up with shffl'd fairs and nairs because why not, but the execution of this entire mode just seems weird to me. I really felt like I could have literally stood still for 5 minutes during the Smash Run and decimated the "challenge" at the end of it. Though I'm assuming the final game will get more difficult, to the point where you're going to have to be powered the hell up to stand a chance against the jacked up CPUs? Hopefully.

Unfortunately, in the end, Smash Run and fucking sudden death matches don't really give me as clear of a look at these characters as I would have liked. I love how Greninja plays, but against an actual human, I bet the down air isn't as great as I've been lead to believe! The back air is probably easily punished, same with up smash. But you know what? He's fun as fuck in Smash Run. I think when I get the actual game and play that mode one time to unlock stuff and never again, I'm gonna do so as Greninja!

It's 1 minute, the battles after Smash Run are always 1 minute. They can be any type of battle: Standard Smash, Sudden Death, Race to the Finish, whatever.

When the game releases though, chances are you'll play this mode more than just one time. You were playing against 3 mid-range level cpus. In the release, you'll be able to play against other people locally or With Friends online. I noticed in the Treehouse streams that the players (even the ones who weren't very good), would get 80-150 in a stat, and all the cpus would be in the 50-60 range. Against other players who are somewhat decent, you're going to be facing people who are just as (if not more) powered up as you, making for some really interesting matches.

Also, gonna have to play through it multiple times anyway. At least in the 3DS version, it has the highest density of equipment/trophy/custom move unlocks.

There's basically no reason to grab ledge anymore. Edge hogging is impossible unless the character is in a fall state. Snapping to the ledge/auto sweet spot is still in the game too.

I don't think that's the case. One of the invitation players (aMSa maybe?) said that you only trump when you approach the ledge from above, not from below. Also, you can't trump from a recovery (up special) move, or possibly you just can't trump when you go into the helpless animation (which some characters don't do).

I think this will just change the edge guarding game rather than destroying it. I'd like to know if it's possible to wait for someone to recover to the ledge, trump them (which pushes them off into a tumble), and then jump off the ledge into a b-air or d-air for the kill. The ledge trump tumble doesn't seem to put them into a helpless animation though, so they'd probably be able to react before you could pull it off. Worth a shot to see if it's possible though.
 

Mark1

Member
Probably, mainly Namco's Arcades.
I'm thinking the reason for this special is because he's the king of arcades. And people have said Namco stuff always gets referenced in Pac man's games, even the first one. But I don't know enough about his games.

Also want this as part of his music selection, or anything to represent this game. A childhood favourite for our family http://youtu.be/F-11L8_PAKQ
 
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